News Flash! 3abn Board Member Linked To Financial Crime Entity, Save3ABN reports the story Options

[appletree]

Rather than continuing to trade barbs about the motivations of each other here on this thread, how about if we try an exercise in critical thinking.

Many of you from both "sides" have read the information recently posted about Larry Romrell on save3abn.com. I personally think the most compelling piece of information in the entire posting is found at the bottom of the first page and states:

"To his credit, Larry Romrell, as far as we can tell, was never charged, indicted, tried, or convicted in the whole affair. That being so, is it at all possible that Larry can help 3ABN president Danny Shelton extricate himself out of the situation he now finds himself in, with his reputation and bank accounts intact?

Or will Larry use his extensive business expertise to rectify the problems at 3ABN, and clean house?"
Let's lay all of the sordid details in the report aside for now (or longer) and get into a bit of philosophical empiriscism. Without employing unkind adjectives, think on and answer the following questions:

1. Looking at the whole picture, what do you honestly suppose was the motivation behind posting this information on save3abn?

2. How does this information reflect on those providing information on save3abn?

3. How does this information reflect on 3abn leadership for adding Larry Romrell to their board of directors?

4. Has anything edifying been accomplished by posting this information on save3abn.

5. What? (edited to be more clear)
PB

1. It is my understanding that LR is a fairly new adventist christian. What is fairly new? I can't tell you. It may mean 2 years or 5, I don't know.
2. It is also my understanding that he became an Adventist christian, in big part, by viewing 3abn. Hence, his interest in the network.
3. Why are we dwelling on LR and why is Joy implying that whatever the future holds for 3abn depends upon LR? He is only 1 member with 1 vote of an expanded board. The future does not depend on one single board member.
4. I have no knowledge of what happened to LR in the 90's or who testified to what, nor do I care since he is now an adventist christian. What I do know is that out of all the allegations that Joy has leveled at different people, He (Joy) is the only one that has an actually been charged and convicted of a crime.
5. So....what's wrong with this picture?

[appletree]

Aletheia,

I know you and Duane don't see eye to eye. You don't believe in what Tommy admits he did to him or his statements that there are other victims. He takes exception to your dismissal of his victimization and his personal knowledge.

You are both Christians. You have recently stated that you give folks the benefit of the doubt. I would love to see you put aside your harsh, sometimes contentious feelings towards Duane who many view as one newly stepping out of the grip of his victimization and moving forward into life. It would reflect well on you and your Christianity, IMO.

PB

Because Aletheia doesn't see the picture the same way you do, hardly reflects on her christianity. To simplify your post it says: Agree with how I see this situation or you are not showing a christian attitude. One can state their opinions without mincing words and still be a christian.

On the other hand, one cannot continue to call themselves a christian while willfully going against the "Word." As in, not spreading rumors, not accusing unless you see it with your own eyes and even then, not gossiping about it. Then there is always the subject of not judging others or their motives since only God knows the heart. If we participate in all the above we very often find we are then guilty of bearing false witness. I think we can all agree that actions such as these are not what you find in a true christian.

[appletree]

Was that "Historic Adventist Church" going back to some connection with Kenny Shelton?
*****************************************************

Well it certainly must be so. After all Kenny Shelton must surely be the only Historic Adventist that exists today. Please.....

[LaurenceD]

5. So....what's wrong with this picture?

...

On the other hand, one cannot continue to call themselves a christian while willfully going against the "Word." As in, not spreading rumors, not accusing unless you see it with your own eyes and even then, not gossiping about it. Then there is always the subject of not judging others or their motives since only God knows the heart. If we participate in all the above we very often find we are then guilty of bearing false witness. I think we can all agree that actions such as these are not what you find in a true christian.

Good thinking. Congratulations. Where were you a while back when we needed you? Let me show you another picture or two and see if you are consistent...

Do you understand what 3abn was doing wrong, according to the Dept. of Rev. in Il? (Get the picture?)
Shall we transfer your comments about judging others to Linda and the "spiritual adultery?" (Get the picture?)
Shall we draw you a picture of the TV evangelist getting off his jet plane, moneybags under arm, new wifey at side, guns under the pillows at home, dressed in that longhorn blazer suing anyone that hurts his pride (that he can possibly idendify), obsessed with terms like "proof" and "internet"...and ask you what's wrong with this picture as we compare this with Christ? Shall we expose the rest of this sorry picture? (do you get it?)

Don't go now, like some hit and run conversationalist...we've just begun. There's sooooo much more, and were only on the edge of discovery.

[beartrap]

Well it certainly must be so. After all Kenny Shelton must surely be the only Historic Adventist that exists today. Please.....

I think that the question regarding Kenny Shelton was due to the fact that the church and pastor in Ghana are affiliated with John Grosbol of Steps to Life, and Kenny Shelton has had a very close relationship with them.

[Johann]

I think that the question regarding Kenny Shelton was due to the fact that the church and pastor in Ghana are affiliated with John Grosbol of Steps to Life, and Kenny Shelton has had a very close relationship with them.

Are there any indications in their publications that show their relationship to the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

[GrammieTana]

Good thinking. Congratulations. Where were you a while back when we needed you? Let me show you another picture or two and see if you are consistent...

Do you understand what 3abn was doing wrong, according to the Dept. of Rev. in Il? (Get the picture?)
Shall we transfer your comments about judging others to Linda and the "spiritual adultery?" (Get the picture?)
Shall we draw you a picture of the TV evangelist getting off his jet plane, moneybags under arm, new wifey at side, guns under the pillows at home, dressed in that longhorn blazer suing anyone that hurts his pride (that he can possibly idendify), obsessed with terms like "proof" and "internet"...and ask you what's wrong with this picture as we compare this with Christ? Shall we expose the rest of this sorry picture? (do you get it?)

Don't go now, like some hit and run conversationalist...we've just begun. There's sooooo much more, and were only on the edge of discovery.

Good post LD! Hey Appletree, where are you?!

GT

[Shepherdswife]

On the other hand, one cannot continue to call themselves a christian while willfully going against the "Word." As in, not spreading rumors, not accusing unless you see it with your own eyes and even then, not gossiping about it.

So AT, if someone HAS seen "it" with their own eyes, what they say is "proof" to you? Still trying to figure out what proof is.

And what is your definition of gossip? When my mom went to the pastor to try to know what to do when she found out that her husband's grandfather had been "allegedly" molesting her daughters, was it gossip? Was his counsel (Biblically sound, to him at the time) that she not tell anyone else to avoid ruining his reputation--to avoid gossip, what you would recommend if you were in a similar situation?

And if she had taken it further, would it have been gossip for her to talk to other family members who had children the same age who grandpa also had contact with, to warn them and to find out if he had already done it to them so she could know how far to carry it?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[Johann]

So AT, if someone HAS seen "it" with their own eyes, what they say is "proof" to you? Still trying to figure out what proof is.

And what is your definition of gossip? When my mom went to the pastor to try to know what to do when she found out that her husband's grandfather had been "allegedly" molesting her daughters, was it gossip? Was his counsel (Biblically sound, to him at the time) that she not tell anyone else to avoid ruining his reputation--to avoid gossip, what you would recommend if you were in a similar situation?

And if she had taken it further, would it have been gossip for her to talk to other family members who had children the same age who grandpa also had contact with, to warn them and to find out if he had already done it to them so she could know how far to carry it?

Inquiring minds want to know...

This post has been edited by Johann: Aug 22 2007, 10:28 AM

[LaurenceD]

Good post LD! Hey Appletree, where are you?!

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

-James 1:8, 4:8

The more I think about it the more sense it makes and it does help explain a lot of the incomplete or double standards we often see posted here.

Inquiring minds want to know

Good post, Shepherdswife! No, great post! Lets see if your point will fall on deaf ears.

"hello darkness, are you out there?"

[erik]

Because Aletheia doesn't see the picture the same way you do, hardly reflects on her christianity. To simplify your post it says: Agree with how I see this situation or you are not showing a christian attitude. One can state their opinions without mincing words and still be a christian.

On the other hand, one cannot continue to call themselves a christian while willfully going against the "Word." As in, not spreading rumors, not accusing unless you see it with your own eyes and even then, not gossiping about it. Then there is always the subject of not judging others or their motives since only God knows the heart. If we participate in all the above we very often find we are then guilty of bearing false witness. I think we can all agree that actions such as these are not what you find in a true christian.

Appletree,

Let me ask flat out you some questions?

Is it gossip to share for the sake of warning other victims to report that Brad, roger, and Duane all clearly state Tommy shelton sexually spoke or assaulted them.

Is their clearly stated words Proof?

I am all for defending 3abn and came to this forum for the purpose of doing so, in fact for that matter so did Bob pickle if you read his open posts.

BUT and YET the facts about things and the words of 3abn leadership changed my mind and appears Mr. pickles has well.

while i would have approached my means of checking facts maybe a little different the Mr. pickle did, it is true that he has information i do not.

Appletree, 3abn gave the clear impression that Linda shelton was removed for sexaully sin, I know that they back away from that statement now. But the members of my church that watch 3abn every single day came to church asking for prayers for 3abn and danny because Linda was having an affair.

It know comes out that maybe she did not have an affiar has 3abn once gone on the air and repent of the of the gossip they did against linda?????

And then to make matters worse they replaced her with a man that on the word of at least 3 first person witness(i.e. victims) that he had in fact committed sexaully sin. What is even worse is that tommy Shelton has not said he id not do what the boys and young men say he has done. in his written defense he beats around the issue to the point it is stomach turning.

I am glad you have giving of your time and money to 3abn, i only wish they would live up to the trust you have palced in them.

and return to the the stated purpose of the their network.

Please anwser the questions above.

Erik

[LaurenceD]

Please anwser the questions above.

No answers yet? There must be deep sense of shame surrounding the sounds of silence.

[Observer]

4. I have no knowledge of what happened to LR in the 90's or who testified to what, nor do I care since he is now an adventist christian. What I do know is that out of all the allegations that Joy has leveled at different people, He (Joy) is the only one that has an actually been charged and convicted of a crime.
5. So....what's wrong with this picture?

Let me share with you:

Mr. Joy, as far as I know is not being considered to fill a position on the Board of 3-ABN. As far as I know, he is not being considered to become an Officer of 3-ABN. If he were to be considered, it would be appropriate for people to rais the issue of his prior criminal convictioin. In addition, it would be appropriate to exclude him from some positions of leadership at 3-ABN due to his prior criminal conviction. I am being blunt, but that is simply common sense. Prior criminal convictions should be considered in regard to certain leadership positions. Those criminal convictions might not exclude one from some positions, but they could exclude one from other positions.

A criminal conviction is not the only factor to be considered. People may be rightfully excluded from some postions based upon a background that did not result in a criminal conviction, and/or did not result in criminal charges. As an example: A person charged with the sexual abuse of a child, regardless of whether there was a criminal conviction, should never be placed in charge of a summer camp for children. And, I will suggest, should not baby-sit your children.

In regard to Larry Romrell, I consider the picture to be confused, and I have not reached a definative opinon on all of the issues raised in regard to him. I do think that I know enough to know that he is an active, involved, supporter of the organized SDA Chruch. I do not consider him to be comming from an off-shoot brance of Adventism. I will suggest that he should be acknowledged for the many posistive things that I see about him. But, I also beleive that there are some unresolved questions that must be answered.

As is typical for 3-ABN, as I see it, they are seemingly unable to understand the Public Relations issues involved, and to meet those issues in a manner that is appropriate.

The result, I suspect, is that Mr. Romrell will swing in the breeze, so to speak, while the public asks, and is not given appropriate answers. The people who question are likely to be attacked. That will not help Mr. Romrell. Information is not likely to be provided the public. That will not help him. Some may state half-truths. That will not help him. The overall response, as I see it, is likely to be that 3-ABN will come out of this further damaged. I will suggest that this will simplly be another failure in leadership to properly respond. But, I could be wrong. We shall simply have to see.

It may be, and I have not decided, that Mr. Romrell has a background that should restrict him from a position of leadership at 3-ABN. If so, it is to bad that he will not be able to contribue in that manner. But, as a follower of Christ, God can lead him in a direction where he can contribute. No one should say that he should only contribute at 3-ABN.

In one sense, I feel very sorry for him. I am concerned that these issues may damage him on his spiritual journey. Yet, they can not be dismissed. Whatever his background is, and I do not know, it must be identified and addressed. Anyone who takes a possition of leadership in a spiritual ministry such as 3-ABN must be open about their past as well as their present.

Does this apply to Mr. Joy? Yes, it would if he were to assume a possition of leadership at 3-ABN. At that time his past as well as his present should be identified and addressed. As far as I know, he has neither been asked to assume the posiiton of General Conference Prsident nor any position at 3-ABN. If anyone can correct me on this, please do so.

[erik]

No answers yet? There must be deep sense of shame surrounding the sounds of silence.

L.D.

Those questions are never awnsered because it would require 3abn leadership to be questioned.

and that can not happen.

Of course never mind that unrepeated of sins will cast you in to hell, never mind and even the great david and abraham fell flat on their faces in the area of sexually acticiviy, the leadership of 3abn is anointed and appointed by God so how dare we question them about any thing.

For mercy of God to be abused in the manner it is makes one wonder how long GOd will with hold judgement on 3abn.

I would point out that God is bless a different media network in very powerful ways, and i am not speaking of the hope channel.


Erik

[Stan]

at the very bottom, which I had not read before is this

"To his credit, Larry Romrell, as far as we can tell, was never charged, indicted, tried, or convicted in the whole affair."

Did anyone else miss that?