 News Flash! 3abn Board Member Linked To Financial Crime Entity, Save3ABN reports the story |
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 Aug 21 2007, 03:18 PM
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#61
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 2,255 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f  |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 01:59 PM)  Duane, Why would you think that or post this? Did you see my reply to Johann about how he took what I posted the wrong way, and did you see how I proved it by providing the "documentation" (quoting what I had actually written)? If so, why are you ignoring that, and supporting his error? I'm not really interested in your written response, but do think you and the readers here should think about that... ~ Aletheia Aletheia, I know you and Duane don't see eye to eye. You don't believe in what Tommy admits he did to him or his statements that there are other victims. He takes exception to your dismissal of his victimization and his personal knowledge. You are both Christians. You have recently stated that you give folks the benefit of the doubt. I would love to see you put aside your harsh, sometimes contentious feelings towards Duane who many view as one newly stepping out of the grip of his victimization and moving forward into life. It would reflect well on you and your Christianity, IMO. PB -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
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Aug 21 2007, 04:02 PM
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#62
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 500 + posts  Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(PeacefulBe @ Aug 21 2007, 05:18 PM) Aletheia, I know you and Duane don't see eye to eye. You don't believe in what Tommy admits he did to him or his statements that there are other victims. He takes exception to your dismissal of his victimization and his personal knowledge. You are both Christians. You have recently stated that you give folks the benefit of the doubt. I would love to see you put aside your harsh, sometimes contentious feelings towards Duane who many view as one newly stepping out of the grip of his victimization and moving forward into life. It would reflect well on you and your Christianity, IMO. PB If wishes were horses... a paraphrase: "I know you and I don't see eye to eye. I don't believe in what you claim Tommy admits ...that there are other victims. I take exception to your dismissal of my plea for proof and claim that any is innocent till proven guilty...except as you believe if others (without proof) say they are guilty. We are both Christians. You have recently stated that you give folks the benefit of the doubt, and are interested in the truth only. I would love to see you put aside your harsh, sometimes contentious feelings towards me... and T.S. too. It would reflect well on you and your Christianity, IMO." Not kewl huh? PB, Let's be perfectly clear here. I have never argued with Duane about his public personal statement, and don't plan on ever doing so. I do believe he hasn't said all, but as he hasn't stated publicly what I know, how can I really argue with him about it anywhere publicly? My problem with Duane comes from his "public" claims about "other victims" and accusations about that, and his claim that T.S. is a pedophile and his lack of proof for that. In this case I give Tommy Shelton the benefit of the doubt as he is the accused and it has not been proven he has molested children. I do not give the benefit of the doubt to accusers who can't prove what they say, and I do not judge others guilty based on the accusers mouths and claims alone, that is wrong! I give the ACCUSED the benefit of the doubt. I reserve judgment on the accusers until I see whether they are able to prove what they say, or not. Now if you have a problem with the above, so be it. I'm not changing. But do me the courtesy of having a problem with what I actually say and believe from now on, and please stop stating stating things contrary to that and finding fault with me for it. It's getting really old. BTW-- This conversation is  to this thread, and has nothing to do with what I posted to Duane here.~ Aletheia edited for clarification This post has been edited by Aletheia: Aug 21 2007, 05:13 PM -------------------- And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. .. in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:12-18 Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. |
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Aug 21 2007, 05:26 PM
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#63
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 500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 696 Joined: 20-February 07 Member No.: 3,035 Gender: m |
Peaceful, this may not fully explain the problem, but at some point it's important to realize that not every child on the playground is able to catch on straight away to a clue. And with some, even if you break it down with a simple demonstration, the child will stubbornly exhibit total defiance to the end.
Someone once put it this way: "S/he who will not reason is a bigot, In this (and several other) case(s) it's obvious that s/he "dares" not, because what then? Their whole world falls apart. ...spies, followers, ex-bro-in-laws, appointed defenders, etc.,...the growing list always points in the same direction--at least to the experienced pathfinder. -------------------- Disclaimer Notice: You are hereby cautioned that the information contained within these posts are for the sole purpose of provoking thought, adding fair comment on matters of public interest, and not providing factual information. These posts do not reflect the actual thoughts or intentions of the person writing under this username since said person is not in any position to know. No effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of any personal view, opinion, or hyperbole presented. Therefore, by disclosing, copying, or distributing these posts to others, such information must subsequently be confirmed in writing, signed and dated, by the actual person, or persons, posting behind username LaurenceD.
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Aug 21 2007, 05:28 PM
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#64
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,522 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 07:35 PM) I'm sorry. I don't know. He does have a listing in Forbes though. Fair, Aletheia. By now it has been shown in another thread here that your man is known to support a different church than the Seventh-day Adventist Church. What is the significance of this? -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King)  "The truth can lose nothing by close investigation". (1888 Materials 38) |
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Aug 21 2007, 07:05 PM
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#65
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500 + posts Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Johann @ Aug 21 2007, 07:28 PM) Fair, Aletheia. By now it has been shown in another thread here that your man is known to support a different church than the Seventh-day Adventist Church. What is the significance of this? "my man"? "A different church"??? As I have already answered there? I say let the readers, and brethren decide fpr themselves. Fair enough? This post has been edited by Aletheia: Aug 21 2007, 07:07 PM -------------------- And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. .. in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:12-18 Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. |
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Aug 21 2007, 07:33 PM
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#66
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,255 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f |
QUOTE(LaurenceD @ Aug 21 2007, 04:26 PM) Peaceful, this may not fully explain the problem, but at some point it's important to realize that not every child on the playground is able to catch on straight away to a clue. And with some, even if you break it down with a simple demonstration, the child will stubbornly exhibit total defiance to the end. Someone once put it this way: "S/he who will not reason is a bigot, In this (and several other) case(s) it's obvious that s/he "dares" not, because what then? Their whole world falls apart. ...spies, followers, ex-bro-in-laws, appointed defenders, etc.,...the growing list always points in the same direction--at least to the experienced pathfinder. Excellent point, LaurenceD. BTW, nice to see you again! PB -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
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Aug 21 2007, 07:47 PM
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#67
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 PrincessDrRe  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,028 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
-------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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Aug 21 2007, 08:01 PM
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#68
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 Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 234 Joined: 14-November 06 Member No.: 2,485 Gender: f |
good grief... who opened the door???
tiresome it is 
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Aug 21 2007, 08:08 PM
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#69
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 416 Joined: 16-May 07 Member No.: 3,569 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Johann @ Aug 21 2007, 04:28 PM) Fair, Aletheia. By now it has been shown in another thread here that your man is known to support a different church than the Seventh-day Adventist Church. What is the significance of this? Was that "Historic Adventist Church" going back to some connection with Kenny Shelton? ***************************************************** |
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Aug 21 2007, 08:49 PM
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#70
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 500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 894 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 2,262 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 04:02 PM) Let's be perfectly clear here. I have never argued with Duane about his public personal statement, and don't plan on ever doing so. I do believe he hasn't said all, but as he hasn't stated publicly what I know, how can I really argue with him about it anywhere publicly? My problem with Duane comes from his "public" claims about "other victims" and accusations about that, and his claim that T.S. is a pedophile and his lack of proof for that. In this case I give Tommy Shelton the benefit of the doubt as he is the accused and it has not been proven he has molested children. I do not give the benefit of the doubt to accusers who can't prove what they say, and I do not judge others guilty based on the accusers mouths and claims alone, that is wrong! I give the ACCUSED the benefit of the doubt. I reserve judgment on the accusers until I see whether they are able to prove what they say, or not. Tommy has never been shown to be a pedophile in a court of law. However, due to multiple accusations from alleged victims, it was a serious failure of oversight on the part of 3ABN to have him working there. There was a real problem when Danny told Walt that the allegations were 30 years old when they manifestly were not. Why lie about that if they were only allegations? Why such an abbreviation? If a new member is 1) asked to lead in Sabbath School, and 2) it becomes known to other churchgoers that the member has allegations of this nature against him; and 3) they leave him in that position, then, if 4) he is shown to have offended again 5) the courts will be merciless when the victim sues. Even if they're only allegations. IMO forget about the courts--let's not take chances on creating more victims, eh? "Even if we're wrong, life just isn't fair -- sorry, you'll have to be the sound guy instead of the kindergarten teacher." Only a very small percentage of victims of this kind of abuse come forward. Why? Because they're afraid they won't be believed. 
-------------------- "The entire world is falling apart because no one will admit they are wrong." -- Don Miller, Blue Like Jazz. |
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Aug 21 2007, 08:52 PM
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#71
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 13-January 07 Member No.: 2,808 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 03:59 PM) Duane, Why would you think that or post this? Did you see my reply to Johann about how he took what I posted the wrong way, and did you see how I proved it by providing the "documentation" (quoting what I had actually written)? If so, why are you ignoring that, and supporting his error? I'm not really interested in your written response, but do think you and the readers here should think about that... ~ Aletheia What a rude and holier-than-thou response. I am not really interested in what you think I should think about... ~~Snoopy~~ |
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Aug 21 2007, 08:56 PM
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#72
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 13-January 07 Member No.: 2,808 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 05:02 PM) Now if you have a problem with the above, so be it. I'm not changing. ~ Aletheia edited for clarification Obviously!!! |
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Aug 21 2007, 09:22 PM
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#73
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 11,157 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
Cindi, you have got to be kiddin'! 3ABN describes itself as non-denominational ministry with a non denominational message". Those are their own words. Nobody has to decide anything. Thjey could have just as easily anytime over 20 years changed that to Seventh Day Adventist Ministry with a Seventh Day Adventist message. A good question might be why didn't they, while leading their supporters to believe just that, from even the choice of name? Now, go and get the answer to that and come back when you knwo something.
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 06:05 PM) "my man"? "A different church"??? As I have already answered there? I say let the readers, and brethren decide fpr themselves. Fair enough? -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
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Aug 21 2007, 09:38 PM
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#74
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 11,157 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
You mean like insinuating that Duane continued some type of "relationship" with TS, or that he was actually of legal age(in IL) when the offense(s) took place? Gurl, you act as if nobody remembers you were here before.
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Aug 21 2007, 03:02 PM) If wishes were horses... a paraphrase: "I know you and I don't see eye to eye. I don't believe in what you claim Tommy admits ...that there are other victims. I take exception to your dismissal of my plea for proof and claim that any is innocent till proven guilty...except as you believe if others (without proof) say they are guilty. We are both Christians. You have recently stated that you give folks the benefit of the doubt, and are interested in the truth only. I would love to see you put aside your harsh, sometimes contentious feelings towards me... and T.S. too. It would reflect well on you and your Christianity, IMO." Not kewl huh? PB, Let's be perfectly clear here. I have never argued with Duane about his public personal statement, and don't plan on ever doing so. I do believe he hasn't said all, but as he hasn't stated publicly what I know, how can I really argue with him about it anywhere publicly? My problem with Duane comes from his "public" claims about "other victims" and accusations about that, and his claim that T.S. is a pedophile and his lack of proof for that. In this case I give Tommy Shelton the benefit of the doubt as he is the accused and it has not been proven he has molested children. I do not give the benefit of the doubt to accusers who can't prove what they say, and I do not judge others guilty based on the accusers mouths and claims alone, that is wrong! I give the ACCUSED the benefit of the doubt. I reserve judgment on the accusers until I see whether they are able to prove what they say, or not. Now if you have a problem with the above, so be it. I'm not changing. But do me the courtesy of having a problem with what I actually say and believe from now on, and please stop stating stating things contrary to that and finding fault with me for it. It's getting really old. BTW-- This conversation is to this thread, and has nothing to do with what I posted to Duane here.~ Aletheia edited for clarification -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
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Aug 21 2007, 10:25 PM
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#75
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 198 Joined: 19-October 06 Member No.: 2,395 Gender: f |
QUOTE(SoulEspresso @ Aug 22 2007, 12:49 PM) Only a very small percentage of victims of this kind of abuse come forward. Why? Because they're afraid they won't be believed. Because most are afraid of being treated as they have in here by 'Dannyfingers' and his mob! Sick, isn't it?  No wonder victims (hopefully, now survivors) feel they can't come forward to seek justice, coz there is none, as a general rule. 
-------------------- "It's important that people know what you stand for. It's equally important that they know what you won't stand for."
~ Mary Waldrop. |
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