Danny Shelton/3abn Board Are Innocent?, Well, then, there must be some proof, so bring it on! Options

[LaurenceD]

Yes, and it begins with the ability of an individual to look at a situation, realize what is inappropritate, and make proper decisions in regard to behavior.

That approach may work best with people who are already able to "realize" and then make the proper adjustments. I'd guess it would work with about half. The other half would probably need to be sat down and have the seriousness of the campus (or church) rules explained to them along with the very SEVERE consequenses--you know, like whippings and threat of death, etc. Interestingly, the eternal death threat is what worked for the church for ages to keep people in line. The rest simply needed to be accompanied by an officer 24/7 :smile:

EXTRA: I was reading in Mat 5 this morning. I saw some parallels to our discusion here that kinda jumped out at me. Read it and see what you think. This is different language than we may be use to (from The Message).

11-12"Not only that—count yourselves blessed every time people put you down or throw you out or speak lies about you to discredit me. What it means is that the truth is too close for comfort and they are uncomfortable. You can be glad when that happens—give a cheer, even!—for though they don't like it, I do! And all heaven applauds. And know that you are in good company. My prophets and witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble.

21-22"You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder.' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill.
23-24"This is how I want you to conduct yourself in these matters. If you enter your place of worship and, about to make an offering, you suddenly remember a grudge a friend has against you, abandon your offering, leave immediately, go to this friend and make things right. Then and only then, come back and work things out with God.

25-26"Or say you're out on the street and an old enemy accosts you. Don't lose a minute. Make the first move; make things right with him. After all, if you leave the first move to him, knowing his track record, you're likely to end up in court, maybe even jail. If that happens, you won't get out without a stiff fine.

38-42"Here's another old saying that deserves a second look: 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' Is that going to get us anywhere? Here's what I propose: 'Don't hit back at all.' If someone strikes you, stand there and take it. If someone drags you into court and sues for the shirt off your back, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. And if someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously.

Question at Large: which side do you think these texts would apply to (3abm/joy-pickle)? I mean like who would this apply to "My prophets and witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble." (Mat 5:12) and how would one determine that?

[Dona]

(justice4jesus @ Sep 13 2007, 08:12 AM)
Some years ago, when The Talleys were prominent in Gospel music, several people had heard Danny bragging about doing an upcoming interview with them and about how Kirk Talley was one of his best friends in Gospel music. On the raw video just prior to the interview, Danny's "best friend" Kirk turned and asked him, "Now, what is your name again?"

Ah, the price of fame!

I wrote to Kirk Talley and the following is his response:

"I don't remember anything about that incident. I have known Danny Shelton for several years. It seems to me this is something so trivial , a waste of someone's time to bring up something that happened years ago to try and make someone look bad now.

People should spend their time helping the hurting, feeding the homeless, or praying for others rather than posting useless garbage that only serves to hurt people. "

Dona

[princessdi]

[YogusBearus]

QUOTE(justice4jesus @ Sep 13 2007, 08:12 AM)
Some years ago, when The Talleys were prominent in Gospel music, several people had heard Danny bragging about doing an upcoming interview with them and about how Kirk Talley was one of his best friends in Gospel music. On the raw video just prior to the interview, Danny's "best friend" Kirk turned and asked him, "Now, what is your name again?"

Ah, the price of fame!

I wrote to Kirk Talley and the following is his response:

"I don't remember anything about that incident. I have known Danny Shelton for several years. It seems to me this is something so trivial , a waste of someone's time to bring up something that happened years ago to try and make someone look bad now.

People should spend their time helping the hurting, feeding the homeless, or praying for others rather than posting useless garbage that only serves to hurt people. "

Dona

I would agree to a certain amount of truth in this. I've noticed that when discussion boards, not just this one, run a bit short of new information to chew on, we have a tendency to reach far afield just to say something. We seem to have a hard time with silence.

The cycle in the 3ABN section is fairly predictable. If we get our fix of new "red meat" via Misters Joy and Pickle or others each week, we seem fairly content to plow new ground with gusto. Without it, we start reaching back, sometimes years, to revisit trivial issues surrounding our favorite cast of characters.

The good news is it's Friday and there may still be a new bombshell posted for our edification. Have you noticed the Friday timing by both sides? The potentially bad news is what are we going to do with our time if this thing ever gets resolved.


-bear (ducking/running for cover)

This post has been edited by YogusBearus: Sep 14 2007, 03:55 PM

[Skyhook]

[
I "

Danny was quoted....

"Anyway, he told me how he had invited Brandy to 3ABN to live and work as she was going through a very hard time and she needed a change and a fresh start. He told me he had personally given her Bible studies when she came to 3ABN."

When there are already romantic/sexual attractions going on Bible studies by the interested party become even more questionable, especially if marriage is planned. The Bible studies should be given by a neutral party, but question of true committment may still be there if the person feels that whether the marriage happens depends on thier response to the studies.

As observer indicated, in the case of professional therapists and counselors, it goes without saying that they must not be "on the make" with their patients/clients. They must also be un-seduceable and should have the training that enables them to understand the transference/countertransference issues that are bound to come up.

What goes for therapists goes double for clergy IMHO.

This post has been edited by Skyhook: Sep 14 2007, 03:47 PM

[Shepherdswife]

1) As a young pastor, working toward ordination, in a remote area of the Conference, without many of the trappings of civilized society, I could not have performed the expectations of the Conference if I had followed that rule. I would not be a SDA minister today. In fact, I would likely not be employed by the denomination at all. NOTE: I am currently employed by the Federal Government, and not the denomination. I am endorsed and credentialed by the General Conference.

2) SDA clergy marry women with whom they have developed a personal relationship that has in the normal course of life developed to the point of marriage. We, I hope, learned long ago that we can not expect our clergy to marry women [NOTE: I am aware of our female clergy. I am simply using the male references in this post.] who fit some pre-determined denominational role. Some ministeral wives would not fit a role that would require them to accompany their husbands as is suggested. In addition, as a denomination we have leaarned that clerical happy marriages to do occure when women are forced to give up their chosen roles to fit that of their husbands.

My spouse faces this dilemma. He takes an elder or a retired member with him if needed, etc. Or makes the appt when I can be there. Has always found a way to have it not be just him and a woman. It is for his protection as well. A dysfunctional, disgruntled person could accuse him of something that didn't happen, but without witnesses, it could be trouble.

But, I will say, that having the study in a public place, etc, or even someone else there, cannot guard a ministers heart if it is up for grabs. I agree with Gregory that more training would be helpful as well. But if the pastor is dissatisfied with his life and not guarding his heart, safety cannot be legislated. The "affair" starts in the heart and that can happen if they are always in public.

shepherdswife

[Shepherdswife]

Clergy do not typically fall into sexual sin. (Yes, there are rare exceptions.) When they sin sexually, it is much more complicated than mere falling into sin.

I totally agree, Gregory!

[justice4jesus]

I wrote to Kirk Talley and the following is his response:

"I don't remember anything about that incident. I have known Danny Shelton for several years. It seems to me this is something so trivial , a waste of someone's time to bring up something that happened years ago to try and make someone look bad now.

People should spend their time helping the hurting, feeding the homeless, or praying for others rather than posting useless garbage that only serves to hurt people. "

Dona

It's all on video, and at least one other member here backs it up, stating that he was there when it happened.

Can we get some kind of confirmation that this response that you received is in fact from Kirk Talley? No offense, but your word alone is not enough.

[Shepherdswife]

I wrote to Kirk Talley and the following is his response:

"I don't remember anything about that incident. I have known Danny Shelton for several years. It seems to me this is something so trivial , a waste of someone's time to bring up something that happened years ago to try and make someone look bad now.

People should spend their time helping the hurting, feeding the homeless, or praying for others rather than posting useless garbage that only serves to hurt people. "
Dona

I am not disputing that this is what he said--although we have no way to know if it was. But I am curious, Dona, how he would have such a negative perception of what is going on here? I doubt he visits or has firsthand knowledge of what is posted.

[princessdi]

In all fairness, I don't believe Kirk Talley is saying that the incident never happened, but that he didn't recall it, and that it so was trivial for someone to bring it up. No, I must admit that might be my repsonse to anyone who had went so far as to actually write me about something like this. It is also apparent that someone told him that this incident was used to make Danny look bad.. Which is true, to a point. It was being used to, establish a pattern" as they say. Unfortunately that pattern is one of being less than truthful, so it did look bad for there to be yet another lie, no matter how small.

It's all on video, and at least one other member here backs it up, stating that he was there when it happened.

Can we get some kind of confirmation that this response that you received is in fact from Kirk Talley? No offense, but your word alone is not enough.

[princessdi]

See now SW, you asked, I just assumed she told him...I will back and join you in asking.

I am not disputing that this is what he said--although we have no way to know if it was. But I am curious, Dona, how he would have such a negative perception of what is going on here? I doubt he visits or has firsthand knowledge of what is posted.

[LaurenceD]

Another way to look at what may be trivial, or a waste of time, is someone actually contacting Kirk about such rumors. That may also be what he meant. If someone is being discussed, who apparently has a self-centered all-important air about them, I don't consider it off base to cite examples that demonstrate the point.

[princessdi]

Exactly LD! This was just one of many incidents similar to establish the pattern. Also, I would see where he would respond this way to someone who actually wrote him about it. I think I would have assumed he didn't remember the incident.

However, coorect me if I am wrong, Dona, but this was posted as a sort of "rebuke" for those who brought up the incident in the first place. MJBM, but the part that was over the top ws actually writing this man to ask him about it.

Another way to look at what may be trivial, or a waste of time, is someone actually contacting Kirk about such rumors. That may also be what he meant. If someone is being discussed, who apparently has a self-centered all-important air about them, I don't consider it off base to cite examples that demonstrate the point.

[PeacefulBe]

I think I should have clarified that I believe the approach that Billy Graham is taking is really for his own protection. He undoubtedly knows how quickly the knives can come out when "Christians" sense something potentially sensational is in the wind. My personal observation is that SDA's are known for the high quality of their cutlery.
-bear

Yes, the Ginsu variety leaps quickly to mind here.....

A snippet from Wikipedia:

Ginsu is a line of kitchen knives made famous by their infomercial television marketing campaign. The Ginsu knife commercials, along with others produced by the same team, established many stylistic precedents for direct marketing on television:

Contrived and dramatic product demonstrations
Gushing, fast-paced praise of the product
Clever catch phrases
Extra products to sweeten the deal for purchasers ("But wait, there's more!")

I do applaud you point, though. It was a wise approach for a very public Christian man and, undoubtedly protected his ministry.

edited for spelling

This post has been edited by PeacefulBe: Sep 14 2007, 05:05 PM

[Dona]

I am not disputing that this is what he said--although we have no way to know if it was. But I am curious, Dona, how he would have such a negative perception of what is going on here? I doubt he visits or has firsthand knowledge of what is posted.

I copy and pasted just what he wrote.

If you need verification, maybe this will help.

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----- Original Message -----
From: KirkTalley@aol.com
To: don...
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:37 AM


I don't remember anything about that incident. I have known Danny Shelton for several years.
It seems to me this is something so trivial , a waste of someone's time to bring up something that happened years ago to try and make someone look bad now.

People should spend their time helping the hurting, feeding the homeless, or praying for others rather than posting useless garbage that only serves to hurt people.


----- Original Message -----
From: Don...
To: Kirksoffice@prodigy.net
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Need your help to get the truth


Dear Mr. Talley,

A couple of days ago someone wrote the following on a forum using it as something to put down Danny Shelton.

"Some years ago, when The Talleys were prominent in Gospel music, several people had heard Danny bragging about doing an upcoming interview with them and about how Kirk Talley was one of his best friends in Gospel music. On the raw video just prior to the interview, Danny's "best friend" Kirk turned and asked him, "Now, what is your name again?"
Ah, the price of fame! "

I wrote back that it sounded more like what a friend, meaning you, would say as a joke. They then came back with:

"You obviously haven't seen the video. I have. Kirk was as serious as he could be, because in truth, he had no idea who Danny was. I'm sure Danny found no humor in the situation himself, either.

Nice try!"

I do not like anything that might cause gossip to harm another. The only way to get the truth of this matter is to ask you. Would you mind telling me what you can remember about it. If I am wrong I will apologize on the forum but if the other person is wrong, may I quote your answer.

Thank you for considering what I have asked. If you can and will help then I thank you even more.

God bless you,

Don...