Rhema: The Basic Belief Of The "word Of Faith Movement"..., How does it relate to Adventism? Options

[västergötland]

Yes, thanks for taking the time to type those out, Peaceful...

watchbird, here's a few more pieces of the puzzle...(Quinn calls this a process of turning Logos into Rhema)

Ch. 7

"I think of the next chapter (Benefits of Rhema) as the crowning jewel of this entire study.
"we plant His LOGOS Word in our hearts and it springs to life as a practical RHEMA Word to us."
"you'll see the exciting advantages of talking God's LOGOS Word and making it our RHEMA utterance."
"we partake of His divine nature. This all begins by the power of the tongue"
"You can take His logos Scripture from the Bible and apply it as a rhema affirmation."
"The power of life and death is in your tongue."
"His mighty rhema Word of power will sustain and uphold you.

Ch. 8

"As we speak his Word with our living voice, He renews our mind."
"Rhema affirmations are the most efficient connection. They transfer His mighty energy to us and we're converted to His way of thinking."
"Before you enter this Kingdom truth, you have to see it."
"Affirming Scriptures isn't the mechanical repitition of a text...As we absorb the Word into our hearts and return it to Him with our living voice, He empowers us to do all that He requires of us."
"I've concluded that abiding in the Word of God is the way we abide in Christ."
"God's thoughts are becoming my thoughts. His desires are becoming my desires."
"Jesus said if we abid in Him and His rhema Word abides in us, we can ask and it will be done for us.."
"The Power of 'I Am.' I am who God says I am."
"If we declare something that is not scriptural--for example, 'I am so stupid' --we are, in a sense, taking the Lord's name in vain."

Appendix (Affirmation Samples)
"I am anointed by the holy one." (I wonder if this has been DS's Rhema/Affirmation)
"He has given me the authority and eternal power of His Word...His Word is a two edged sword--the first edge struck when He spoke it, the second edge strikes when I speak it." (meaning returning it to him)
"I have been given the mind of Christ."
"I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus."

Does the book supply the texts where these affirmations are found?

[LaurenceD]

Yes, take the two-edged sword Affirmation Sample:

He has given me the authority and eternal power of His Word
His Word is alive, active, immovable, and unshakable.
His Word is a two edged sword--the first edge struck when He spoke it, the second edge strikes when I speak it.
As I speak the Word, I hear the voice of the Lord.
I am returning His Word to Him and His Word does not return void,
but accomplishes every purpose for which He sent it.
He actively watches over His Word to make certain it is fulfilled
at the perfect time which He has appointed.

The above affirmation is based on Heb 4:12 NKJV, Isaiah 55:9-11,13 NIV, Jeremiah 1:12 AMP, Luke 1:20 AMP, Habak 2:3 AMP

How would one determine the right meaning of those texts?

Take Isaiah 55 for example. Can we understand the point that being made here? I'm not seeing where It will not return to me empty means that we should speak God's word back to him. What it does means can best be described in The Message, IMO:

So will the words that come out of my mouth
not come back empty-handed.
They'll do the work I sent them to do,
they'll complete the assignment I gave them.

Quinn uses this text to connect her New Thought Affirmation exercise...that we should talk a personal application of this back to God to complete what he spoke to us. I don't see how she can conclude any such thing,

This post has been edited by LaurenceD: Sep 27 2007, 07:43 PM

[beartrap]

This whole Rhema thing appears to me to be a psychological exercise in

1. wanting something
2. finding a text that says you deserve it
3. Repeating the text that you "says you deserve it" until you believe that you do deserve it
4. Using scripture to lend divine weight to your desire
5. Using the divine weight to cause yourself to believe that it must inevitably happen for you since it is divinely appointed
6. acting on the divine appointment of what you want

This is a spinoff on the many new-age doctrines that tell you that if you want something bad enough, and you believe it will happen, and you visualize it happenning, it will happen, because you will make it happen. At least that is how I see it.

[judibug60]

Quoted by PB from the Quinn book.....

I challenge you to set asisde time each day for the next montha ns dpeak life affirmation from Scripture aloud. No matter how well you know the Scriptures - or how long your/ve been serving the Lord - I believe you'll find you are tapping into a spiritual power source like none other you have known before.

Here are some suggestions that I've found helpful:

1. Devote thirty minutes each day to this proactice of meditating on God's Word. I've learned my days go much smoother when I dedicate ti me early in the morning. If you can't squeeze thirty minutes into your schedule in a single time slot, try dividing this practice into two fifteen-minute segments - or three ten-minute exercises.

1. Begin with prayer. Ask God to sanctify you by His Word (see John 17:17). Ask H im to teach you His will. Ask to be filled with His Spirit and for the Holy Spirit to be your teacher. I incorporate the speaking of affirmations into my regular prayer time. This whole practice is a process of prayer. After some rehearsal, many Christians realize a spontaneous burst of praise arises in their hearts. Most hae mentioned a new level of intimacy they experience in their prayer time through this process.

3. Speak the affirmation and supporting Scriptures aloud. As you speak the affirmation (the words within the box), you're returning God's Word to Him. When I speak the supporting Scriptures aloud, I sense I'm hearing the voice of God. Scripture is HIs Word.

4. Repeat the affirmation after saying the Scriptures. Change the wording, if necessary, to offer direct thanksgiving to God.

5. Conclude with prayer and praise. Thank God for watching over His Word to perform it. Thank Him for making known "the end from the beginning." Most of all, thank HIm that He calls things that are not as though they already were.

6. Be consistent. If y ou're like me, you may feel a little uneasy about speaking some of these promises in the affirmation form at first. In the beginning, I felt like a hypocrite when I heard my living voice say these things; I knew what I was speaking didn't match my experience. I was speaking things that were not yet evident to my physical senses as though they already existed. That's exactly what God does; He counts them accomplished. Praise the Lord, we can accept His testimony about us as being s omething He will work in us, causing us to be all that He has called us to be.

7. Repeat. When you've completed this entire segment, simply strt over again. Each time you repeat an affirmation, it becomes more alive in you. God's Word cannot be exhausted.

(Sorry, the bold did not survive the "copy/paste" function.)

I think these are very interesting... particularly #6.

"I knew what I was speaking didn't match my experience"..... can anyone recall a three letter word that is the descriptor of words that do not accurately reflect reality (my experience)?

And whatever happened to such things as "facing reality" ... or "owning the problem" as the first step towards accomplishing change in our lives?

And #5....

"Thank God for watching over His Word to perform it." Let's see. I have heard of His word instructing, guiding, comforting, encouraging.... but where oh where does the idea that it is the "word" itself which "performs"... while we just stand back and affirm things which "do not match our experience"?

Thanks for the quotes, PB and Lawrence. The picture is beginning to take shape.

I just don't think I can except the concept of asking God to teach me his will....I have always prayed, Your will be done........and leave it to God.......and speaking of affirmations, It would seem to me that it appears one has little trust that God will hear your pray if you continually ask for affirmations......sorry, I am in total disagreement with SQ and her methods..........

[Denny]

I just don't think I can except the concept of asking God to teach me his will....I have always prayed, Your will be done........and leave it to God.......and speaking of affirmations, It would seem to me that it appears one has little trust that God will hear your pray if you continually ask for affirmations......sorry, I am in total disagreement with SQ and her methods..........

To me it comes across as using the bible as a magic book to chant spells.....very dodgy stuff

[LaurenceD]

A few more gyms...

Ch. 6
Invest more time in God's broadcasting system and invest more time in hearing. Church sermons, and Bible studies, Christian television, radio programs, tapes, and books.These are all wonderful tools to renew the attitudes of our minds. The most effective broadcasting sustem I've discovered is the hearing of my own voice. I generally read the Bible aloud as I study. This practice increases my focus and causes my ear to open and receive God's Word.

Hearing my own voice speaking God's Word is the greatest way I've learned to usher in faith.

Ch. 7
Speaking Scripture as affirmations is a practice the Holy Spirit inspired me to begin in 1995

The affirmation process is worth your time investment. It will work the very mind of Christ in you.

I've condensed a lot of of deep though into this single chapter. Because it's somewhat technical, I'll warn you in advance that it's not an easy read. I pray as we go to the bottom of this teaching, the Spirit will stir the anointing in you and teach you concering all things.

I am not writing this chapter for you to store the depth of the teaching in your memory. This is being written for only one purpose: that you may be convinced of the power of the process, so that you can abide in His Word though rhema affimation.

Would you to come with me and dive deeper into the divine reasoning of God?

[watchbird]

This whole Rhema thing appears to me to be a psychological exercise in

1. wanting something
2. finding a text that says you deserve it
3. Repeating the text that you "says you deserve it" until you believe that you do deserve it
4. Using scripture to lend divine weight to your desire
5. Using the divine weight to cause yourself to believe that it must inevitably happen for you since it is divinely appointed
6. acting on the divine appointment of what you want

This is a spinoff on the many new-age doctrines that tell you that if you want something bad enough, and you believe it will happen, and you visualize it happenning, it will happen, because you will make it happen. At least that is how I see it.

For some it may be nothing more than "a psychological exercise." But I have seen this kind of thing in too many other venues... some of them very close-up and personal... not to believe that there can be real "power" involved in this sort of thing. The question that we as Christians need to ask... and ask very urgently and carefully... is... "What is the source of this power?".

You mention "new age doctrines". Laurence mentioned specifically "New Thought". And the latter is one of the roots of the former. It is also instructive, IMO, to note how similar this is to various works that claim to be channeled (dictated) from various spirit entities. Some of these target overtly "Eastern" or "new age" groups. Others claim authorship by spirits with Biblical names... even "Jesus Christ" himself.... and target Christians specifically.

A few comments and highlights on Laurence's selections....
[/size]

A few more gyms...

Ch. 6
Invest more time in God's broadcasting system and invest more time in hearing. Church sermons, and Bible studies, Christian television, radio programs, tapes, and books.These are all wonderful tools to renew the attitudes of our minds. The most effective broadcasting sustem I've discovered is the hearing of my own voice. I generally read the Bible aloud as I study. This practice increases my focus and causes my ear to open and receive God's Word.

Hearing my own voice speaking God's Word is the greatest way I've learned to usher in faith.

Ch. 7
Speaking Scripture as affirmations is a practice the Holy Spirit inspired me to begin in 1995

The affirmation process is worth your time investment. It will work the very mind of Christ in you.

I've condensed a lot of of deep though into this single chapter. Because it's somewhat technical, I'll warn you in advance that it's not an easy read. I pray as we go to the bottom of this teaching, the Spirit will stir the anointing in you and teach you concering all things.

I am not writing this chapter for you to store the depth of the teaching in your memory. This is being written for only one purpose: that you may be convinced of the power of the process, so that you can abide in His Word though rhema affimation.

Would you to come with me and dive deeper into the divine reasoning of God?

I am still very interested in where Shelley came in contact with the Rhema teachings. I'd also like to know what her preparation for starting the practice in 1995 was.

Most significant of all, IMO, is the sentence I bolded above.... "I am not writing this chapter for you to store the depth of the teaching in your memory. This is being written for only one purpose: that you may be convinced of the power of the process,"

How different from the Christian concept of storing scripture in our minds so the Holy Spirit can bring it to memory when He wishes to do so.

The key concepts of Rhema... and of New Thought... and of several channeled works that I could mention... and of the various branches of the Word/Faith Movement.... is something called the "intrinsic power in the word"... or "the intrinsic power in the word of God".... depending on whether one is atheistic or theistic. Keep watch for this as Laurence brings us more gems from the book.... (or did he intend to say "gyms".... as in places for doing mental gymnastics perhaps?)

[LaurenceD]

Hey WB, here's another gym...the worth of the memory exercise.

Ch. 8
In chapter six, when I referred to methods of "broadcasting seeds of faith" through hearing the Word, perhaps you noticed an obvious omission. Sermons, and Bible studies were mentioned. Christian television, radio programs, tapes, and books were included. My top proposal was confessing His Word aloud. What's missing from this list? I purposely omitted the method of memorizing Scripture.

Although memorizing is an excellent way to plant the seeds of faith, I didn't consider it because so many are "put off" by the suggestion. Traveling from church to church, I've polled congregations. Less than one percent of members say they enjoy memorizing. I felt I'd be whistling in the wind to suggest a method that intimidates most of us (including me). The Bible counsels us to meditate on His Word: Consider what it means to us, what it reveals about the character of God and His plan, and reflect on who we are "in Christ." There is no commandment to memorize.

I think what Quinn is actually trying to say is that memorizing works against the fluidity of the spirit. When people speak in tongues, for example, it's not something they need to memorize. Going with the flow can be more of a "spontaneous burst."

Where did Quinn come into contact with rhema teaching? Look at this...
http://www.jimfeeney.org/powerofwordofGod.html

[LaurenceD]

I'm trying to get the hang of this...maybe beartrap could help me. Is this how it works?

John 10:34, 35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

My Own Rhema Affirmation Sample
I AM now positioned to be among the Gods
He has given me authority and eternal power to be a God also
His Word has come unto me and made me a god
He will not--cannot--break his promise of Scripture
The Lord Jehovah-rapha has made me thus
I trust His Word and send it back to Him
With a humble heart I am now become like Him
Holiness and Righteous shall follow me
I M worthy of his calling and accept his Word
What is tomorrow will be today..I cannot deny Him
I AM anointed to be a god. I believe, now I have spoken.

[watchbird]

Hey WB, here's another gym...the worth of the memory exercise.

Ch. 8
In chapter six, when I referred to methods of "broadcasting seeds of faith" through hearing the Word, perhaps you noticed an obvious omission. Sermons, and Bible studies were mentioned. Christian television, radio programs, tapes, and books were included. My top proposal was confessing His Word aloud. What's missing from this list? I purposely omitted the method of memorizing Scripture.

Although memorizing is an excellent way to plant the seeds of faith, I didn't consider it because so many are "put off" by the suggestion. Traveling from church to church, I've polled congregations. Less than one percent of members say they enjoy memorizing. I felt I'd be whistling in the wind to suggest a method that intimidates most of us (including me). The Bible counsels us to meditate on His Word: Consider what it means to us, what it reveals about the character of God and His plan, and reflect on who we are "in Christ." There is no commandment to memorize.

I think what Quinn is actually trying to say is that memorizing works against the fluidity of the spirit. When people speak in tongues, for example, it's not something they need to memorize. Going with the flow can be more of a "spontaneous burst."

I think what she is actually trying to say is that what is important to her is pleasing to her members... and to herself. Forget about the old staid, "Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against Thee." That's "intimidating".

Where did Quinn come into contact with rhema teaching? Look at this...
http://www.jimfeeney.org/powerofwordofGod.html

Thanks for the link. This is a very good example of the way this is typically taught. I'm glad to have this to add to my growing list of clear concise urls on the topic. What I'm really wondering however, is where specifically did Quinn come in contact with it.... or more specifically, WHO is she crediting... other than the "Holy Spirit" .... for whatever happened in 1995 to plunge her into this. Is there enough autobiographical information there to figure this out? Or does anyone know her personally well enough to know? I still haven't learned what specific church she pastored before becoming Adventist.

The bottom line may be that this is so prevelant within Pentecostalism of almost any brand.... that there would be no significance to where she happened to hear it first. If she was raised Pentecostal, it could have been her world-view from her childhood.

Another question that may or may not have any significance to this specific topic.... what about her husband? I had heard once upon a time that he was an ex-Adventist. I'm wondering if this is so, and if so, what his attitude toward Adventism is now that Shelley has become one... and if he had anything to do with her becoming Adventist.

[watchbird]

I'm trying to get the hang of this...maybe beartrap could help me. Is this how it works?

John 10:34, 35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

My Own Rhema Affirmation Sample
I AM now positioned to be among the Gods
He has given me authority and eternal power to be a God also
His Word has come unto me and made me a god
He will not--cannot--break his promise of Scripture
The Lord Jehovah-rapha has made me thus
I trust His Word and send it back to Him
With a humble heart I am now become like Him
Holiness and Righteous shall follow me
I M worthy of his calling and accept his Word
What is tomorrow will be today..I cannot deny Him
I AM anointed to be a god. I believe, now I have spoken.

Actually, Laurence, I suspect you are hopelessly Theist... that is, your bottom line basic view of God and man is, as Sire puts it, "God is God and I am not". So you betray yourself all through your "Affirmation sample".

OTOH, it is not something that I would advise playing with. There are "I AM" cults... both within and without the Christian "folds".... which are dead serious about this. I personally have seen so much of it that I avoid using all caps even when I am wanting to say I am... with emphasis on the verb.

I AM is the name God gave himself when speaking with Moses. It is the word that Jesus used when the Jews were about to stone him for blasphemy.... actually in Greek it IS a different form of the simple pronoun and verb sequence, which when translated directly into English would be something like "I Myself AM".

The "I AM" cults, as they are called, use these freely in affirmations... and the use of the phrase itself is enough to claim identity with God.... and this affirmation of actually being God is exactly what they are intending by the affirmation.

But to really understand this, one has to look through the metaphysical glasses of that world view... in which thoughts and words have intrinsically within them the power to create the very thought they express.

But we know that is not true... so why do I say that I would not advise "playing" with it? Just as Paul spoke of the idols to which food was offered in his day... that they are "nothing"..... are not the affirmations also "nothing"? And in a sense yes.... and the believer in God as a Personal God who Himself is the power... can say the same thing as Paul did... that there is no power in the words... therefore they cannot hurt me.... so why not experiment and see what happens.

And my answer to that is that Paul did not stop with saying that idols were nothing. He recognized demon spirits who masquerade as angels of light, and, as did the Old Testament... forbade having anything to do with them... other than to be discerning so as not to accept false doctrine... and to "resist the Devil" and all of his wiles.

Those who do not believe in actual fallen angels may say it is being superstitious to do as Roxe did ... which was essentially the same thing the Ephesians did with their "books of magic".... she and they burned the books. Those, however, who hold, as I do, that the The Great Controversy Model is the only true and biblical cosmic view, will avoid these kinds of affirmations that are so similar to magical incantations, just as vigorously and carefully as we do any other occultic devices and/or practices. Don't get me wrong... I am not saying that any of us who have the book should burn it... for if we do not know what is in it, how can we warn others against it. But what I am saying is that we should not experiment with these things to see if they "work".

[lurker]

So often we are convinced that God is on our side when what we should be concerned about is that we are on God's side. I'm enjoying the contributions y'all have made to my understanding of this subject.

[Denny]

Jesus said when we pray say Our Father , if we use that model for our relationship with the Lord affirmations will not even enter our heads. imagine using this same model with our earthly parents... if gopd earthly parents know how to deal with thier children what say God the Ultimate Father?

[Skyhook]

Actually, Laurence, I suspect you are hopelessly Theist... that is, your bottom line basic view of God and man is, as Sire puts it, "God is God and I am not". So you betray yourself all through your "Affirmation sample".

OTOH, it is not something that I would advise playing with. There are "I AM" cults... both within and without the Christian "folds".... which are dead serious about this. I personally have seen so much of it that I avoid using all caps even when I am wanting to say I am... with emphasis on the verb.

I AM is the name God gave himself when speaking with Moses. It is the word that Jesus used when the Jews were about to stone him for blasphemy.... actually in Greek it IS a different form of the simple pronoun and verb sequence, which when translated directly into English would be something like "I Myself AM".

The "I AM" cults, as they are called, use these freely in affirmations... and the use of the phrase itself is enough to claim identity with God.... and this affirmation of actually being God is exactly what they are intending by the affirmation.

But to really understand this, one has to look through the metaphysical glasses of that world view... in which thoughts and words have intrinsically within them the power to create the very thought they express.

But we know that is not true... so why do I say that I would not advise "playing" with it? Just as Paul spoke of the idols to which food was offered in his day... that they are "nothing"..... are not the affirmations also "nothing"? And in a sense yes.... and the believer in God as a Personal God who Himself is the power... can say the same thing as Paul did... that there is no power in the words... therefore they cannot hurt me.... so why not experiment and see what happens.

And my answer to that is that Paul did not stop with saying that idols were nothing. He recognized demon spirits who masquerade as angels of light, and, as did the Old Testament... forbade having anything to do with them... other than to be discerning so as not to accept false doctrine... and to "resist the Devil" and all of his wiles.

Those who do not believe in actual fallen angels may say it is being superstitious to do as Roxe did ... which was essentially the same thing the Ephesians did with their "books of magic".... she and they burned the books. Those, however, who hold, as I do, that the The Great Controversy Model is the only true and biblical cosmic view, will avoid these kinds of affirmations that are so similar to magical incantations, just as vigorously and carefully as we do any other occultic devices and/or practices. Don't get me wrong... I am not saying that any of us who have the book should burn it... for if we do not know what is in it, how can we warn others against it. But what I am saying is that we should not experiment with these things to see if they "work".

Well said watchbird. This borders on occult practices and when such doors are opened we cannot control what comes through.

[LaurenceD]

One of the things that bothered me about reading Quinn's book was her apparent over-reverence for words...sometimes capitalizing them, sometimes not. It showed up everwhere, on every page. Sometimes, she'd even capitalize the word "scripture" as though it might somehow be sacred. I don't understand attaching a great deal of superstition to a message.

Language is nothing but a vehicle for me. Do what you can to convey your message and forget about the extra baggage. For me, it probably all has to do with understanding life beyond words.

Who was it that said the strongest argument in favor of the gospel is a loving and lovable Christian? I'd be more influenced by watching the simple selfless life of someone like Sister Teresa than learning about God by imagining and listening to him through my own voice.