Latest On 3abn - Round 3, Kay Kuzma Response to L Shelton Story Options

[Daryl Fawcett]

Clay,

Are you, therefore, saying that nobody should be saying or doing anything against anybody?

[Clay]

Clay,

Are you, therefore, saying that nobody should be saying or doing anything against anybody?

Nope not at all.... what I am saying is that usually when people go public with "their side of the story" they usually don't tell on themselves..... knowing that allows you to assess the credibility of their version... afterall there are at least two sides to every story...

[Guest_statrei_*]

Nope not at all.... what I am saying is that usually when people go public with "their side of the story" they usually don't tell on themselves..... knowing that allows you to assess the credibility of their version... afterall there are at least two sides to every story...

Yep. The inside and the outside.

[PrincessDrRe]

Clay,

Are you, therefore, saying that nobody should be saying or doing anything against anybody?

I know this was addressed directly to Clay - but I also feel a need to expound on it....

You should be able to speak on subjects that you have direct knowledge or learned knowledge of. If you are speaking on the 3ABN HOT MESS from inside knowledge - by all means - SAY SO. However if you are speaking from speculation then you gonna have to hursh (hush) up.

My quotes about ethics - I can back up.

Can you? If so - then float on....however if you can't .... well......

Bounce.

[Clay]

however a person can discuss the reports given by others and question the info provided..... which is what we have done and will continue to do....

[awesumtenor]

You made a valid observation, however, I made an exception to that only because I personally know the SDA pastor who spoke to him by phone, however, I posted what I posted before having read what I am now reading in the "Unauthorized History of 3ABN" topic that throws the Chairman of the 3ABN Board in a questionable light. I am also reading first hand information in that topic that I consider to be of great weight in the two or more witnesses sense.

Would that then be an admission that you were wrong for putting that out there as you did?

Naming the pastor is not important, therefore, as I am not asking the first hand witnesses to identify themselves, neither am I identifying this SDA pastor.

Funny; you had no problem asking sister to identify herself and how she came by her info just the other day...

This do as I say, not as I do thing you have going is gonna get problematic... call it a hunch...

In His service,
Mr. J

[HUGGINS130]

Interesting indeed!!!

[princessdi]

Uh, yeah ya did! LOL!!!

Girl I know exactly what you are saying...we all live by a different set of rules than the "powers that be"...the higher ups in the church...they are permitted to embezzle tithe and offering monies...they are permitted to have an extra-marital affair and transfer to another conference without fear of being disfellowshipped...they can find another woman and marry her after divorcing their wife of many years by inventing grounds sanctioned by the church just because they run 3ABN...oops, did I say that out loud?

Carry on....

You made a valid observation, however, I made an exception to that only because I personally know the SDA pastor who spoke to him by phone, however, I posted what I posted before having read what I am now reading in the "Unauthorized History of 3ABN" topic that throws the Chairman of the 3ABN Board in a questionable light. I am also reading first hand information in that topic that I consider to be of great weight in the two or more witnesses sense.

Bro. Daryl, I think right abut now, you are felling a bit "lied to", and not just by your Pastor friend either. He was just repeating what he was told(and as you will find out as you continue to read, what we were told two years ago). Don't be discouraged though you are not the first neither will you be the last to go out on a limb and then have it sawed off It ws the party line and anyone who wanted to be at the party went along with it.

Naming the pastor is not important, therefore, as I am not asking the first hand witnesses to identify themselves, neither am I identifying this SDA pastor.

[LadyTenor]

Nope not at all.... what I am saying is that usually when people go public with "their side of the story" they usually don't tell on themselves..... knowing that allows you to assess the credibility of their version... afterall there are at least two sides to every story...

Yep. The inside and the outside.

...and then there's the truth...and that never comes out...so there's at least THREE sides...

[watchbird]

I think the following post by Daryl on his forum answers the question. He posted this even while insisting that only fact must be posted. I leave it to you to determine the reason for adding the last sentence.

Ah, but to play "devil's advocate", errr... Daryl's advocate... for a moment, he did post "only fact". It was a fact that he received news. It was fact that his friend spoke to Thompson. It was fact that Thompson said what he did. And it was fact that this went contrary to what was on Linda's website. So, with those two sources of information, his question was a good one. "Who are we to believe?" At least he didn't say "This proves Linda is a liar."

I received some news by phone from a pastor friend of mine that doesn't look good for Linda Shelton.

This pastor spoke to the Chairman of the 3ABN Board who told him that:

Linda had an opportunity to appear before the 3ABN Board but refused to do so.
Linda was seen in various places with the person in question.
This same person also had an opportunity to appear before the 3ABN Board but refused.
Danny unsuccessfully tried to keep the marriage with Linda intact.
This goes contrary to what is written on Linda's website, therefore, who are we to believe?

I think all we can do is to leave it in the hands of the Lord who knows the truth of the matter and will judge accordingly. Nothing can be hidden from God.

Can we really judge Daryl on the basis of this one post? Do we know the context? Apparently they had been reading Linda's website. And certainly the things said by Thompson are "contrary" to what is written on Linda's website. If we had only those two sources of information, who would we believe?

We now have the benefit of hindsight and the testimony from others whom we consider to be credible and truthful witnesses, so we recognize the lies in Thompson's statements easily. But if we didn't have those. What then? If we only knew Thompson in his own environment--a physician that holds the respect of his peers and the church members who know him personally--would we not give at least equal weight to his witness as to that of the accused?

Let's be honest with ourselves. How many of us, other than those who may have previously known Linda personally--not just from her appearance in our living rooms as a speaker on 3ABN--questioned the initial reports on the 3ABN website that gave the distinct impression that Linda had deserted the ministry and run off with some "other man"? I'll be honest--it looked convincing to me. But I had the advantage over many people in that I had had a long time working relationship with Johann Thorvaldsson, I knew he was closely associated with 3ABN and would likely have "insider" information, and I knew he could be depended on to tell the truth. So I withheld judgement until I was able to make contact with him. Then, of course, I learned that he not only had "insider information" but that he had been personal witness to much that had happened. So I had no difficulty in determining what to believe and what to recognize as lies.

But what about others, who didn't have those connections? It has to have been a much more difficult task for them to sort truth from error. Let's be patient with those who are only now finding evidence as to who are telling truth and who are still peddling lies. It is, after all, commendable that someone even holds judgement in abeyance and goes in search of truth. It only takes talking with one or two whose minds are made up and have no interest at all in learning the "other side" of the accusations against Linda, to recognize just how commendable the willingness to search for truth really is.

This post has been edited by watchbird: Jul 5 2006, 06:14 AM

[Clay]

Let's be honest with ourselves. How many of us, other than those who may have previously known Linda personally--not just from her appearance in our living rooms as a speaker on 3ABN--questioned the initial reports on the 3ABN website that gave the distinct impression that Linda had deserted the ministry and run off with some "other man"? I'll be honest--it looked convincing to me. But I had the advantage over many people in that I had had a long time working relationship with Johann Thorvaldsson, I knew he was closely associated with 3ABN and would likely have "insider" information, and I knew he could be depended on to tell the truth. So I withheld judgement until I was able to make contact with him. Then, of course, I learned that he not only had "insider information" but that he had been personal witness to much that had happened. So I had no difficulty in determining what to believe and what to recognize as lies.

I have to disagree. From the start the story I heard did not sound right. From the start there was a subtle attempt to point the finger at someone.... as I said earlier, when people go public and start telling what the other person did, yet leave out what they did, that is a red flag to me.

Secondly as more info came out, regarding how Linda was treated, that was the second red flag. As christians we are to love compassion, do the right thing, and walk humbly with God. Mr. Shelton in my opinion did NONE of those things. A good christian man would NOT (even if he chose the divorce option) publicly trash his soon to be ex's reputation. He would be compassionate. He would NOT "gag" her so she could not speak about what had happened.....Like I also said before, even IF she did everything he accused her of (and I doubt that she did), she did NOT and should NOT have been treated in that manner....

He acted like a person who had something to hide....

So based on the little info available at the onset, there was a big rat stinking, and lots of people were pretending like it didn't exist...

[watchbird]

I have to disagree. From the start the story I heard did not sound right. From the start there was a subtle attempt to point the finger at someone.... as I said earlier, when people go public and start telling what the other person did, yet leave out what they did, that is a red flag to me.

Secondly as more info came out, regarding how Linda was treated, that was the second red flag. As christians we are to love compassion, do the right thing, and walk humbly with God. Mr. Shelton in my opinion did NONE of those things. A good christian man would NOT (even if he chose the divorce option) publicly trash his soon to be ex's reputation. He would be compassionate. He would NOT "gag" her so she could not speak about what had happened.....Like I also said before, even IF she did everything he accused her of (and I doubt that she did), she did NOT and should NOT have been treated in that manner....

He acted like a person who had something to hide....

So based on the little info available at the onset, there was a big rat stinking, and lots of people were pretending like it didn't exist...

Ah yes, but let's face the facts--you are definitly (Like Yogi) "smarter than the average bear."

And when I spoke of myself, that was the first impression of the first announcement that came on the 3ABN website. Yes, things started to look fishy even before I heard back from Johann (he was traveling at the time and out of email contact for a few days).

But OTOH, it has been over two years now, and there are still people who have heard nothing but the "independent investigation committee" report. Some of them have actually heard nothing else and when they do hear they are open to learning the truth. Some, sad to say, plugged (or filtered) their ears with that initial report, and nothing gets to their brains unless it agrees with that report.

But, things are changing. And additional people are seeing the light and hearing the testimonies of those who are brave enough to speak up for right, regardless of the cost. And the wheels are grinding--even though distressingly slowly. And eventually justice will come down like the rain. And while not all can be exposed now, the more than can be the better prepared those who have innocently believed the lies will be to face the awful truths.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Upon further reflection, since this pastor spoke directly to the Chairman of the 3ABN board, I consider this first hand information from this pastor as it came directly to him from the Chairman of the 3ABN board, and he passed it on to me, which is in accordance to our "fact" or "first hand experience" policy over at MSDAOL. The only difference is that I posted it there myself instead of him. I also started a new topic over there titled, Corruption of Leadership at 3ABN? in which we will be discussing this there beginning with the basic question, "Should any known corruption of leadership in the church, or any entity that reflects the image or message of the church be exposed?" You may also wish to discuss this basic question here, which I think has already been brought up by some of you somewhere here at BSDA.

This post has been edited by Daryl Fawcett: Jul 5 2006, 08:56 AM

[princessdi]

Actually, the first consensus on this site was to pray for them both, and we thought it sad. What sent the first red flag was the fact that, they had all the shows retaped. We thought that a bit vindictive and wondered why such drastic measures were taken. Thirdly, were the subsequent post from Danny himself and the good counselor Kuzma. As Clay says it was the actions of Danny, the 3ABN board, and those is league with them that were and still are suspect. I bought that story just as I bought the one about WMD in Iraq. NOT!!!

Ah yes, but let's face the facts--you are definitly (Like Yogi) "smarter than the average bear."

And when I spoke of myself, that was the first impression of the first announcement that came on the 3ABN website. Yes, things started to look fishy even before I heard back from Johann (he was traveling at the time and out of email contact for a few days).

But OTOH, it has been over two years now, and there are still people who have heard nothing but the "independent investigation committee" report. Some of them have actually heard nothing else and when they do hear they are open to learning the truth. Some, sad to say, plugged (or filtered) their ears with that initial report, and nothing gets to their brains unless it agrees with that report.

But, things are changing. And additional people are seeing the light and hearing the testimonies of those who are brave enough to speak up for right, regardless of the cost. And the wheels are grinding--even though distressingly slowly. And eventually justice will come down like the rain. And while not all can be exposed now, the more than can be the better prepared those who have innocently believed the lies will be to face the awful truths.

This post has been edited by Clay: Jul 5 2006, 05:06 PM

[Guest_statrei_*]

Upon further reflection, since this pastor spoke directly to the Chairman of the 3ABN board, I consider this first hand information from this pastor as it came directly to him from the Chairman of the 3ABN board, and he passed it on to me, which is in accordance to our "fact" or "first hand experience" policy over at MSDAOL.

One day you will realize the danger in your approach. You cannot afford to surrender your mind to others. Your actions reflect a number of false assumptions. You assume that the pastor did speak to the Chairman, but he could have heard it from someone else. You assumed that the Chairman spoke the truth. More importantly, you seem to believe that only you can have reliable sources. If anyone else had tried to post what you posted you would have said it did not fit your fact policy. In the end it is not about the truth but about what you believe. This is obvious from all your posts. All your investigations of doctrine are designed to support the conclusions you have already made. That is a sad place to be.