Reaping The Whirl Wind, IRS Criminal Investigation of 3ABN Options

[Fran]

I did not post the story to be off topic. I believe that is the very reason we are here today.

I believe the lies started before the lies about Linda. To back up one lie he had to tell another. Now we are here listening to those who are assisting Danny and his lies. IMO, Danny has begun to believe his own lies.

If Danny had provided all the information the auditors asked for in 2000 & 2001, we might not be here, but then he started lying about Linda, then ...

Where will it stop?

Taking a picture of our daughter would not have helped. She was mentally deficient. The picture would not have helped.

Pictures have not fazed Danny either. (I am not saying here that Danny is mentally deficient. I do not believe he is.) Danny has picture after picture and still the lies are there. Danny and friends believe those lies. That is my point. Only God can reveal the truth to them. I fear that day of Revelation; not for us, but for Danny.

Fran, this is a wonderful story that demonstrates the true power of a carefully nurtured lie. I'm just saddened that you didn't have a camera of some type to document the event so that your daughter could have fully broken out of her denial as an adult.

This story, knitted into the framework we are discussing on this forum as well as into life in general has inspired a cliche that I will be using on my family, and others, from this day forward:

Hon, the chocolate is right there on your face!

PB

[Fran]

Thank you for your correction.

I understand that you mean well however the verse does state, not nor has it ever stated, that the very elect could/would be led to believe a lie. It does say as noted below "and shall shew great signs and wonders; in so much that, IF it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Though it may not apply, 1 Tim 4 1 sounds as though it may be more appropriate. But the one you have referenced does not. Ones unwillingness to admit the truth even after one has clearly been caught in a lie. And, even into adulthood says to me that ones conscience has been affected to a great degree.

1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Even more so 1Tim 4 seems to apply to Danny's situation...

[Pickle]

If you can prove all that you and he, as "Private investigator and reporters" have claimed, why would he perceive the lawsuit as a threat to his income and file bankruptcy, for protection???

My guess is that you aren't used to reading such legal documents. What you quoted didn't say anything about filing for bankruptcy protection from the lawsuit. It was simply laying out the facts as a foundation for further statements or conclusions.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 9 2007, 10:27 PM

[Johann]

Danny has picture after picture and still the lies are there. Danny and friends believe those lies. That is my point. Only God can reveal the truth to them. I fear that day of Revelation; not for us, but for Danny.

This is the sad part of it, Fran. So many of his friends fall for those lies, and refuse to believe the truth. They keep spinning and spinning.

I have so many things up my sleve I could state here, but I have learned to keep quiet. The moment I mention some of the things I have seen and experienced, someone starts spinning on it, as if their life depends on it. By now I have learned not to state any more true arguments, but rather wait with my testimony until I meet a forum where truth is accepted as a fact and not a lie.

Our God of Truth is not honored by an institution building its credibility on the shifting sand of untruthfulness, regardless of who supports them.

Jesus is coming soon, and in the end all such untruthfulness will burn like a heap of straw sogged with gasoline. There will be no security in hiding the evil done under the rug of indifference, even if the new president of 3BN with all the supporters of Danny Shelton should pride themselves with such an ability.

[appletree]

That is why this case does not just fade out into oblivion, regardless of how much time it takes for cleansing of the issues. The knowledge of crimes may fade, but still remain an evil that has no place in a ministry that is proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You are correct. That is why Linda is no longer there.

[appletree]

I did not post the story to be off topic. I believe that is the very reason we are here today.

I believe the lies started before the lies about Linda. To back up one lie he had to tell another. Now we are here listening to those who are assisting Danny and his lies. IMO, Danny has begun to believe his own lies.

If Danny had provided all the information the auditors asked for in 2000 & 2001, we might not be here, but then he started lying about Linda, then ...

Where will it stop?

Taking a picture of our daughter would not have helped. She was mentally deficient. The picture would not have helped.

Pictures have not fazed Danny either. (I am not saying here that Danny is mentally deficient. I do not believe he is.) Danny has picture after picture and still the lies are there. Danny and friends believe those lies. That is my point. Only God can reveal the truth to them. I fear that day of Revelation; not for us, but for Danny.

Question Fran. If and I say If you would be called to court to show proof of your above statements (and many others that you have made) could you do so? Do you have proof that Danny lied about Linda or anything else for that matter? One of the first questions you would be ask was if you were employed at 3abn, or a personal friend of Danny's or Linda's and if so what did you see with your own eyes? Next the questions would be..do you know for a fact that Linda is not guilty of what she was accused of and if you do know it, show the court what proof you have.
I could go on with the questions but if you are telling the truth, here on this forum, about having no involvement with 3abn or personal knowledge of neither Danny or Linda, your testimony wouldn't get as far as I have taken it. You would be dismissed as a less than credible witness. Since this is a suit about slander, hopefully you would be slapped with a fine or some kind of retribution as being a contributor and participant in this slander suit.

At this point, I can't imagine anyone that can think intelligently, still falling into Joy and Pickles bologne. How much error in their stories and writings has to be pointed out before you can see what a terrible joke the whole thing is. How many deceitful things to they have to do, how much speculation and slants do they have to put on everything to make it come out the way they want it to before you can all see what a sham this is. The picture they have painted is such a far cry from the truth. The people that are truly involved with 3abn, Danny, Jim, the board, know the truth as it is...not lies that have been printed as truth. Joy and Pickle have never even been to 3abn or met the ones they have tried murder with their false accusations. That fact in itself makes me wonder about the "smarts" of the people that believe all the bunk. Your beloved source is a convicted embezzler, an uncredentialed reporter, someone who has taken bankruptcy on a FINANCIAL COUNSELING business and has a trail of unhappy landlords that say they have been cheated by him. He also has a history of butting his nose into some other organizations and trying to stir up trouble.

It seems to me they are the ones that have participated in lies and deceit for so long that they have started to believe those lies. IMO they both have the "nobody" syndrome and have talked themselves into believing, that in the adventist world, they are now "somebody" because of the smear 3abn campaign. Over the last year this has become their whole lives. Yes, 3abn attorney's continue to fight for justice on behalf of the wrongs that have been done...but 3abn has moved on...Danny has moved on...Jim is moving on. They are busy running the ministry, traveling, making time for their families and trying to complete the commission to "go ye into all the world." Old supporters have rallied, new ones are showing up everyday. God's ministry and those that are a part of it are involved in something wonderful. They are participating in last day events as the world comes to a close. The pickles and joys of this world may come and go but what God puts into action will stay in action until he deems otherwise. Satan can throw his slings and arrows and come at 3abn with everything he's got, but, God prevails.

[Johann]

You are correct. That is why Linda is no longer there.

You think you can get away with such a false accusation because nobody knows who you are. There comes a day of reckoning.

I use my real identity because truth has nothing to hide.

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 11 2007, 09:27 AM

[awesumtenor]

...but if you are telling the truth, here on this forum, about having no involvement with 3abn or personal knowledge of neither Danny or Linda, your testimony wouldn't get as far as I have taken it. You would be dismissed as a less than credible witness.

You mean like Cindy, Ian, Dona and the others in your camp who make themselves out to be self-proclaimed experts on this matter on the one hand while admitting their having "no involvement with 3abn or personal knowledge of neither Danny or Linda"?

Yet, oddly enough, you never have a problem accepting any conclusion they make even though they should be, by your admission above, dismissed as less than credible.

At this point, I can't imagine anyone that can think intelligently, still falling into Joy and Pickles bologne.

So you are saying anyone who inclines to believe their side and disbelieve yours lacks the capacity for intelligent thought?

How much error in their stories and writings has to be pointed out before you can see what a terrible joke the whole thing is. How many deceitful things to they have to do, how much speculation and slants do they have to put on everything to make it come out the way they want it to before you can all see what a sham this is. The picture they have painted is such a far cry from the truth. The people that are truly involved with 3abn, Danny, Jim, the board, know the truth as it is...not lies that have been printed as truth. Joy and Pickle have never even been to 3abn or met the ones they have tried murder with their false accusations. That fact in itself makes me wonder about the "smarts" of the people that believe all the bunk. Your beloved source is a convicted embezzler, an uncredentialed reporter, someone who has taken bankruptcy on a FINANCIAL COUNSELING business and has a trail of unhappy landlords that say they have been cheated by him. He also has a history of butting his nose into some other organizations and trying to stir up trouble.

It seems to me they are the ones that have participated in lies and deceit for so long that they have started to believe those lies. IMO they both have the "nobody" syndrome and have talked themselves into believing, that in the adventist world, they are now "somebody" because of the smear 3abn campaign. Over the last year this has become their whole lives. Yes, 3abn attorney's continue to fight for justice on behalf of the wrongs that have been done...but 3abn has moved on...Danny has moved on...Jim is moving on. They are busy running the ministry, traveling, making time for their families and trying to complete the commission to "go ye into all the world." Old supporters have rallied, new ones are showing up everyday. God's ministry and those that are a part of it are involved in something wonderful. They are participating in last day events as the world comes to a close. The pickles and joys of this world may come and go but what God puts into action will stay in action until he deems otherwise. Satan can throw his slings and arrows and come at 3abn with everything he's got, but, God prevails.

For the umpteenth time, this issue doesn't become an issue if DS doesn't lie about trying to save his marriage while he was getting a divorce in Guam; it doesn't become an issue if DS doesn't order that any and all evidence that Linda ever existed at 3ABN to be eradicated. It doesn't become an issue if you and your camp don't come here telling all manner of falsehoods to paint a faux portrait of objectivity... It doesnt become an issue if you don't claim to have truth that you refuse to state and claim to be in the know without identifying yourself. You insist that your version can be trusted despite the fact that you have shown yourselves markedly short of being trustworthy... IOW, the ones keeping this mess afloat is you and those in your camp... every time you take a gratuitous shot at Linda, you keep mess going; every time you blame Pickle and Joy for the things your camp says and does you keep mess going.

But we're supposed to believe that everything... from decreased donations to 3ABN to the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby is Pickle and Joy's fault...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

In His service,
Mr. J

[PeacefulBe]

Question Fran. If and I say If you would be called to court to show proof of your above statements (and many others that you have made) could you do so? Do you have proof that Danny lied about Linda or anything else for that matter? One of the first questions you would be ask was if you were employed at 3abn, or a personal friend of Danny's or Linda's and if so what did you see with your own eyes? Next the questions would be..do you know for a fact that Linda is not guilty of what she was accused of and if you do know it, show the court what proof you have.
I could go on with the questions but if you are telling the truth, here on this forum, about having no involvement with 3abn or personal knowledge of neither Danny or Linda, your testimony wouldn't get as far as I have taken it. You would be dismissed as a less than credible witness. Since this is a suit about slander, hopefully you would be slapped with a fine or some kind of retribution as being a contributor and participant in this slander suit.

At this point, I can't imagine anyone that can think intelligently, still falling into Joy and Pickles bologne. How much error in their stories and writings has to be pointed out before you can see what a terrible joke the whole thing is. How many deceitful things to they have to do, how much speculation and slants do they have to put on everything to make it come out the way they want it to before you can all see what a sham this is. The picture they have painted is such a far cry from the truth. The people that are truly involved with 3abn, Danny, Jim, the board, know the truth as it is...not lies that have been printed as truth. Joy and Pickle have never even been to 3abn or met the ones they have tried murder with their false accusations. That fact in itself makes me wonder about the "smarts" of the people that believe all the bunk. Your beloved source is a convicted embezzler, an uncredentialed reporter, someone who has taken bankruptcy on a FINANCIAL COUNSELING business and has a trail of unhappy landlords that say they have been cheated by him. He also has a history of butting his nose into some other organizations and trying to stir up trouble.

It seems to me they are the ones that have participated in lies and deceit for so long that they have started to believe those lies. IMO they both have the "nobody" syndrome and have talked themselves into believing, that in the adventist world, they are now "somebody" because of the smear 3abn campaign. Over the last year this has become their whole lives. Yes, 3abn attorney's continue to fight for justice on behalf of the wrongs that have been done...but 3abn has moved on...Danny has moved on...Jim is moving on. They are busy running the ministry, traveling, making time for their families and trying to complete the commission to "go ye into all the world." Old supporters have rallied, new ones are showing up everyday. God's ministry and those that are a part of it are involved in something wonderful. They are participating in last day events as the world comes to a close. The pickles and joys of this world may come and go but what God puts into action will stay in action until he deems otherwise. Satan can throw his slings and arrows and come at 3abn with everything he's got, but, God prevails.

Appletree,

I will give you credit as having sometimes offered views in this 3abn Forum discussion that could be classified as informative and presented in a proper way. This post is not one of them. It is nothing more than a summary of the partyline propaganda that has, far too often, been what your "side" has brought to the table.

You begin with a thinly veiled threat towards Fran that appears designed to attempt to give pause or plant fear in the minds of those posting contrary to your side. I personally know of one case in recent months where this tactic has actually worked.

Then, you continue on by attempting to shame us. Some, including you, have come here "pointing out" the error in what Gailon and Bob have presented using words only - offering very little documentation to back up what you say. This is a problem for those of us who desire to get at the actual truth in this situation. Because I said so is not a convincing argument for those of us who "can think intelligently". Some of us don't blindly buy into either side. There are those, both here and lurking, who are willing to lap up whatever you or others bring. Propaganda works..... It is not effective, however, on those of us who carefully weigh the information brought in by both sides before deciding if it measures up to truth. As I read through the rest of this section of your post, i noticed how well it could be descriptive of some on either side.

As I read through this, the information I have highlighted brought questions to my mind:

Has Jim Gilley been shown the proof? Is he satisfied that every one of the documented claims on Save3abn are untrue? It was my understanding that he was on more of a from-this-day-forward course with 3abn.

Is there documentation available, other than John Alfke's post on another forum, that proves the claims you are putting forth about Gailon's jilted landlords? If not, perhaps you should refer to the possible consequences of unproven claims in your paragraph to Fran.


While I am personally pleased that you are participating in this discussion, I am disappointed that you are not bringing something of substance with this post.

PB

[Fran]

This was totally uncalled for. The lies continue after all these years!

You are correct. That is why Linda is no longer there.

[Johann]

This was totally uncalled for. The lies continue after all these years!

Not much has changed. It is reported that Danny L. Shelton used as an argument that he was telling the *TRUTH* that he was sitting behind the desk and not in front of it. Those sitting in front of his desk are liars!

Mr. Apple... shows that he is steeped in that *gospel*. Power makes it right!

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 11 2007, 10:46 AM

[Richard Sherwin]

And what errors has Danny's side shown to be false? I'm sorry Appletree but you and others have said there were lies but have shown very little to disprove them. Very very little. The documentation has been with Joy and Pickle. If Danny has any documentation he should have showed it years ago and then he would have never "needed" to take anyone to court. The person who has been shown to be dishonest, by documentaion and personal eye witnesses is Danny and company, not Joy, Pickle and company.

Richard

Question Fran. If and I say If you would be called to court to show proof of your above statements (and many others that you have made) could you do so? Do you have proof that Danny lied about Linda or anything else for that matter? One of the first questions you would be ask was if you were employed at 3abn, or a personal friend of Danny's or Linda's and if so what did you see with your own eyes? Next the questions would be..do you know for a fact that Linda is not guilty of what she was accused of and if you do know it, show the court what proof you have.
I could go on with the questions but if you are telling the truth, here on this forum, about having no involvement with 3abn or personal knowledge of neither Danny or Linda, your testimony wouldn't get as far as I have taken it. You would be dismissed as a less than credible witness. Since this is a suit about slander, hopefully you would be slapped with a fine or some kind of retribution as being a contributor and participant in this slander suit.

At this point, I can't imagine anyone that can think intelligently, still falling into Joy and Pickles bologne. How much error in their stories and writings has to be pointed out before you can see what a terrible joke the whole thing is. How many deceitful things to they have to do, how much speculation and slants do they have to put on everything to make it come out the way they want it to before you can all see what a sham this is. The picture they have painted is such a far cry from the truth. The people that are truly involved with 3abn, Danny, Jim, the board, know the truth as it is...not lies that have been printed as truth. Joy and Pickle have never even been to 3abn or met the ones they have tried murder with their false accusations. That fact in itself makes me wonder about the "smarts" of the people that believe all the bunk. Your beloved source is a convicted embezzler, an uncredentialed reporter, someone who has taken bankruptcy on a FINANCIAL COUNSELING business and has a trail of unhappy landlords that say they have been cheated by him. He also has a history of butting his nose into some other organizations and trying to stir up trouble.

It seems to me they are the ones that have participated in lies and deceit for so long that they have started to believe those lies. IMO they both have the "nobody" syndrome and have talked themselves into believing, that in the adventist world, they are now "somebody" because of the smear 3abn campaign. Over the last year this has become their whole lives. Yes, 3abn attorney's continue to fight for justice on behalf of the wrongs that have been done...but 3abn has moved on...Danny has moved on...Jim is moving on. They are busy running the ministry, traveling, making time for their families and trying to complete the commission to "go ye into all the world." Old supporters have rallied, new ones are showing up everyday. God's ministry and those that are a part of it are involved in something wonderful. They are participating in last day events as the world comes to a close. The pickles and joys of this world may come and go but what God puts into action will stay in action until he deems otherwise. Satan can throw his slings and arrows and come at 3abn with everything he's got, but, God prevails.

[Snoopy]

Question Fran. If and I say If you would be called to court to show proof of your above statements (and many others that you have made) could you do so? Do you have proof that Danny lied about Linda or anything else for that matter? One of the first questions you would be ask was if you were employed at 3abn, or a personal friend of Danny's or Linda's and if so what did you see with your own eyes? Next the questions would be..do you know for a fact that Linda is not guilty of what she was accused of and if you do know it, show the court what proof you have.
I could go on with the questions but if you are telling the truth, here on this forum, about having no involvement with 3abn or personal knowledge of neither Danny or Linda, your testimony wouldn't get as far as I have taken it. You would be dismissed as a less than credible witness. Since this is a suit about slander, hopefully you would be slapped with a fine or some kind of retribution as being a contributor and participant in this slander suit.

Keeeewwwwlllll!!! I want to go to court!!! Please pick me, pick me, pick me!!! Can I go after Fran?? Please, please PLEASE???? I want to go!!!



~~Snoopy~~

[appletree]

Appletree,

I will give you credit as having sometimes offered views in this 3abn Forum discussion that could be classified as informative and presented in a proper way. This post is not one of them. It is nothing more than a summary of the partyline propaganda that has, far too often, been what your "side" has brought to the table.


While I am personally pleased that you are participating in this discussion, I am disappointed that you are not bringing something of substance with this post.

PB

PB,

You have missed the point entirely. To make it simple and straightforward: 3abn does not and cannot worry about proving anything to a small group on chat room that have NO personal affiliation with the ministry. When most all of one's conclusions come from the internet and the infamous "it is my understanding" and "I was told" syndrome. Let's face it. We have here a group that is either, a disgruntled ex employee, a friend of Linda's or a group of Fran's that have no personal involvement whatsoever. They have never been there or known anybody involved. ALL of this groups information has come from the internet not personal knowledge of any kind. The mere fact that you all think proof and documentation should be brought to these forums says a lot about your lack of understanding in running a ministry of this immensity. Enough time will be wasted if the occasion arises to bring proof into court. To bring all of 3abn's documentation and personal testimony to internet forums would be a horrific waste of God's time. That is comparable to the President trying to visit personally with all those that are against him because of the war. Can you imagine him going personall from person to person presenting his facts and figures and secret intelligence information that has caused him to make certain decisions? Of course we know that is a much grander scale but never the less, a good comparison of the logistics of the situation.

3abn has 1 goal; to spread the gospel. They are dedicated to that goal. It is sad that they have had to invest any time in fighting allegations from the other side but sometimes you are forced to fight for what is right. In court. Not on public forums.

[Johann]

PB,

You have missed the point entirely. To make it simple and straightforward: 3abn does not and cannot worry about proving anything to a small group on chat room that have NO personal affiliation with the ministry. When most all of one's conclusions come from the internet and the infamous "it is my understanding" and "I was told" syndrome. Let's face it. We have here a group that is either, a disgruntled ex employee, a friend of Linda's or a group of Fran's that have no personal involvement whatsoever. They have never been there or known anybody involved. ALL of this groups information has come from the internet not personal knowledge of any kind. The mere fact that you all think proof and documentation should be brought to these forums says a lot about your lack of understanding in running a ministry of this immensity. Enough time will be wasted if the occasion arises to bring proof into court. To bring all of 3abn's documentation and personal testimony to internet forums would be a horrific waste of God's time. That is comparable to the President trying to visit personally with all those that are against him because of the war. Can you imagine him going personall from person to person presenting his facts and figures and secret intelligence information that has caused him to make certain decisions? Of course we know that is a much grander scale but never the less, a good comparison of the logistics of the situation.

3abn has 1 goal; to spread the gospel. They are dedicated to that goal. It is sad that they have had to invest any time in fighting allegations from the other side but sometimes you are forced to fight for what is right. In court. Not on public forums.

Who are you? What do you know. For all I know you are a terrible impostor. . . trying to impress people with things you know nothing about. Who are you to tell people what they cannot do, if what you are doing is much worse?

Who do you think you are since you state that Linda has committed a crime? Your statement is a crime in itself!

If 3ABN had a clear conscience they could easily have come out in the open with the real facts, but there are none. Period!

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 11 2007, 03:19 PM