3abn Adds New Board Member, Union President? Options

[justice4jesus]

In fact, isn't there a sort of letter of apology form Tommy to at least one of his victims? They never, ever say that he didnt' do it, just basicallyt hat he didnt' get caught kind of thing. I wonder if they would take such a stance if it was one of their children? Would they be comforted because 17 was "legal age of consent" in IL, that not enough people came forward to press charges and he has never served a day for his crimes? These people are a trip!

PrincessDi, you bring up a valid point and something for the 3ABN folks to consider. You wonder how they would feel if it were one of their children. I believe that the folks at 3ABN would be wise to consider the possibility that this may already be the case. I say "may" so as to avoid making any direct accusations or implications, but the fact is that it cannot be ruled out. At least one of the victims who have come forward has stated that some of the abuse took place at the original 3ABN building. To assume or refuse to believe that it could have happened again at 3ABN, one would be a fool.

Another word of advice to the folks at 3ABN....DO NOT assume that all is well just because there may be no signs. In the vast majority of cases, it takes many, many years for a victim of sexual abuse to come forward, as has been evidenced by the victims who have come forward against Tommy so far. Any real expert on sexual abuse will tell you that this is commonplace. If your child has been around Tommy, and especially if the child has been alone with him, you owe it to your child, yourself, your entire family and other potential future victims to remain open-minded and to consider the possibility that this may have already happened. I pray that it has not, but the possibility is there, and as painful as it may be, that is reality.

A little something extra to chew on here....Perpetrators of sexual abuse never stop. They have to BE stopped.

Are your children safe?

How can you know?

Ask.

Listen.

[PrincessDrRe]

A little something extra to chew on here....Perpetrators of sexual abuse never stop. They have to BE stopped.

Are your children safe?

How can you know?

Ask.

Listen.

This is a deep statement. I had to quote it....and bold it....and enlarge it.....

[jakann]

Jakann - last post on the topic. No. Still don't make you qualified; being that you spoke on budget issues very wrongly. Published, verified independently; budget issues. Even if you attended SWAU; that don't mean you are SWAU in the open/understanding heart of the school.

I'm done. You may continue to post on the subject if you like; but I am done.

You confuse me. I agreed with what you said about Dr. Sahly!! And I never said anything about any budget issues except to say that he cut support for the baseball program. You are the one who injected the parts about other cutbacks/layoffs at the school. And I agreed with what you said. Remember when I said "You make some good points that I agree with completely. " in my recent post?

I think you are being unfair with me in this discourse, especially since I met the criteria you put forth as being qualified to speak on this issue. To be honest, it seems as though you may have had a family member or someone else who was given the shaft at SWAU? Is this why you feel so strongly? I've got no problem with how you feel about things there.

I too will let this thread end. God bless!

[Ian]

Okay, so you are saying that what I have said and written is more than 99.9% false. Could you please start demonstrating how that is so? Mere assertions don't cut it, especially when there is a defamation lawsuit going on.

Mr Pickle, Yes there is a defamation lawsuit going on, it would behoove you to remember that you are the defendant, you are accused of lying and slandering in everything mentioned in that lawsuit.

So, to keep asking what you been accused of or have lied about, and pretending you don't know is disingenuous, and also just plain ridiculous.

To further claim and act like you are the the one being slandered and persecuted because people don't like, or agree with what you have done and are doing, or because they don't believe you have proved what you say, and falsely accuse others of? Or to take offense at being called a slanderer and false accuser, or because your slanders and insults are pointed out, as your recent writings here on the forum and in court (even to attorneys) seems to me to suggest? well, it looks like you are either delusional or deceived. In any case you aren't dealing with reality IMHO.

You are and have been a SDA apologist for some time. You know that the best defense against lies is the truth. The best defense is not saying "here's my claim, prove I lied" as you do in the 3abn issues

{for example: 1.) you claimed there were multiple accusations of sexual offenses and one from a minor at the Church in Virginia but have you ever proven that there are multiple victims, or even one victim there? much less that Tommy Shelton is guilty? NO. 2. You claim Danny Shelton withheld and hid 190.000 dollars from Linda Shelton, and had a secret account with that in it. Have you proved that? No. 3. You claimed Remnant publications and Dwight... conspired with Danny Shelton to hide money from the 3ABN board. Have you proved that? No. I could go on as that is just a start, but won't here.)

So rather then running around in this forum taking offense and acting persecuted because people don't believe you, or demanding apologies all the time; why don't you concentrate on your court case and prove you are telling the truth there, where it counts???

Shouldn't that be your main focus right now? Rather then focusing on those who disagree with you, and attempting to persoanlly attck them, or post more slander??

As an apologist you know that the deceived and liars just avoid points and post diversions and are unable to answer, so go on the personal attack, yet you are evasive about answering questions directly,and keep diverting from the issue when you can't answer by bringing in a host of other things, and keep playing games with words, and attacking others.

What else have you lied about? well from my POV, most recently, the save3abn website. So has Joy btw...

So, here's your chance to come clean.
Are you the registrant, webmaster, author and host or owner of the save3abn website?
or is Joy?

I'm also wondering how you can now claim to be a creditor in Joy's bankruptcy case when he never listed you as one, and you aren't registered as a creditor, or with any claim in the court against him? Why did he never list that as a debt, whether exempt or otherwise, and why didn't he list the website as an asset or property which could be distributed to any creditor when the trustee did her investigation?. How could he not know the 3abn site was registered in his name when he answered the lawsuit complaint which claimed that, and which had that registration attached? Why does he claim you are the webmaster and yet he answers all the email to the webmaster?

and I want to know why you would support all this in court, and his testimony that he doesn't believe he is the owner?

When throughout numerous questions on this forum, you have pretended to have nothing to do with it and have even outright claimed "It's not my site"

I just asked you about it again the other day and you claimed you didn't stutter or spin that,..
yet in court you are saying you have 'ownership interest"

Is it or isn't it?

If it isn't Joy's site, and it isn't yours? who's could it be, Mr Pickle?

If needed I guess we can drag in all the relevant documents.

As far as FHB goes, I have read where he repeatedly has posted and told you what you falsely claimed, with documentation:
You falsely claimed Walt Thompson admitted in a letter that he was misled by Danny, which he did not.
You falsely claimed Danny admitted breaking into Linda's car, which he did not.
You also falsly claimed Danny divorced Linda cause she hid his gun..

he called you on all of that. I know there's more but those are just examples that I can remember offhand...

So-- Please stop trying to pretend you keep asking where you lied and no one can or will tell you. (yes, I saw where you claimed that in court)

You have been answered and told multiple times both in and off this forum what you are bearing false witness about.

Some of us here pay attention period whether it be in Sabbath school, on this forum, or anyplace else...

This post has been edited by Ian: Jan 13 2008, 07:35 AM

[PrincessDrRe]

GOD forbid it ever come out that one of your children or a child in your family was affected/effected by the likes of Tommy Shelton or another "Tommy" elsewhere in the church.

Of course if/when (because if you are blind to others you will in turn become a victim yourself) this happens you must have the same stance....that it didn't happen and sweep the actions (even if the person admits to it) under the rug.

You must do for your own that you would do for others.

[Johann]

GOD forbid it ever come out that one of your children or a child in your family was affected/effected by the likes of Tommy Shelton or another "Tommy" elsewhere in the church.

Of course if/when (because if you are blind to others you will in turn become a victim yourself) this happens you must have the same stance....that it didn't happen and sweep the actions (even if the person admits to it) under the rug.

You must do for your own that you would do for others.

I have been involved in certain cases where the mother has not believed; where she called her daughter a liar, until years later she discoverd the permanent damage the perpetrator's acts did to her.

Some of these sons and daughter have never been able to get married, or their marriages have been failures because they felt the guilt all through their lives. . .

This is why it is our Christian duty to have such things eradicated from our midst.

Some people just do not comprehend it. In so many cases the victims are so devastated that they cannot step forward to convict, so the perpetrator never gets his just punishment. This is where the church has to step in, even when no police is involved.

As I advance in years it appears like more people talk things out with an old pastor. . .

[PrincessDrRe]

I have been involved in certain cases where the mother has not believed; where she called her daughter a liar, until years later she discoverd the permanent damage the perpetrator's acts did to her.

Some of these sons and daughter have never been able to get married, or their marriages have been failures because they felt the guilt all through their lives. . .

This is why it is our Christian duty to have such things eradicated from our midst.

Some people just do not comprehend it. In so many cases the victims are so devastated that they cannot step forward to convict, so the perpetrator never gets his just punishment. This is where the church has to step in, even when no police is involved.

As I advance in years it appears like more people talk things out with an old pastor. . .

...and that's fine as long as one does also take care of business with the courts as the person will continue to molest w/o the intervention of the law.

90-some % reoffend.... that's odds I don't want to play with.....

[SoulEspresso]

Mr Pickle, Yes there is a defamation lawsuit going on, it would behoove you to remember that you are the defendant, you are accused of lying and slandering in everything mentioned in that lawsuit.

So, to keep asking what you been accused of or have lied about, and pretending you don't know is disingenuous, and also just plain ridiculous.

To further claim and act like you are the the one being slandered and persecuted because people don't like, or agree with what you have done and are doing, or because they don't believe you have proved what you say, and falsely accuse others of? Or to take offense at being called a slanderer and false accuser, or because your slanders and insults are pointed out, as your recent writings here on the forum and in court (even to attorneys) seems to me to suggest? well, it looks like you are either delusional or deceived. In any case you aren't dealing with reality IMHO.

You are and have been a SDA apologist for some time. You know that the best defense against lies is the truth. The best defense is not saying "here's my claim, prove I lied" as you do in the 3abn issues

{for example: 1.) you claimed there were multiple accusations of sexual offenses and one from a minor at the Church in Virginia but have you ever proven that there are multiple victims, or even one victim there? much less that Tommy Shelton is guilty? NO. 2. You claim Danny Shelton withheld and hid 190.000 dollars from Linda Shelton, and had a secret account with that in it. Have you proved that? No. 3. You claimed Remnant publications and Dwight... conspired with Danny Shelton to hide money from the 3ABN board. Have you proved that? No. I could go on as that is just a start, but won't here.)

So rather then running around in this forum taking offense and acting persecuted because people don't believe you, or demanding apologies all the time; why don't you concentrate on your court case and prove you are telling the truth there, where it counts???

Shouldn't that be your main focus right now? Rather then focusing on those who disagree with you, and attempting to persoanlly attck them, or post more slander??

As an apologist you know that the deceived and liars just avoid points and post diversions and are unable to answer, so go on the personal attack, yet you are evasive about answering questions directly,and keep diverting from the issue when you can't answer by bringing in a host of other things, and keep playing games with words, and attacking others.

What else have you lied about? well from my POV, most recently, the save3abn website. So has Joy btw...

So, here's your chance to come clean.
Are you the registrant, webmaster, author and host or owner of the save3abn website?
or is Joy?

I'm also wondering how you can now claim to be a creditor in Joy's bankruptcy case when he never listed you as one, and you aren't registered as a creditor, or with any claim in the court against him? Why did he never list that as a debt, whether exempt or otherwise, and why didn't he list the website as an asset or property which could be distributed to any creditor when the trustee did her investigation?. How could he not know the 3abn site was registered in his name when he answered the lawsuit complaint which claimed that, and which had that registration attached? Why does he claim you are the webmaster and yet he answers all the email to the webmaster?

and I want to know why you would support all this in court, and his testimony that he doesn't believe he is the owner?

When throughout numerous questions on this forum, you have pretended to have nothing to do with it and have even outright claimed "It's not my site"

I just asked you about it again the other day and you claimed you didn't stutter or spin that,..
yet in court you are saying you have 'ownership interest"

Is it or isn't it?

If it isn't Joy's site, and it isn't yours? who's could it be, Mr Pickle?

If needed I guess we can drag in all the relevant documents.

As far as FHB goes, I have read where he repeatedly has posted and told you what you falsely claimed, with documentation:
You falsely claimed Walt Thompson admitted in a letter that he was misled by Danny, which he did not.
You falsely claimed Danny admitted breaking into Linda's car, which he did not.
You also falsly claimed Danny divorced Linda cause she hid his gun..

he called you on all of that. I know there's more but those are just examples that I can remember offhand...

So-- Please stop trying to pretend you keep asking where you lied and no one can or will tell you. (yes, I saw where you claimed that in court)

You have been answered and told multiple times both in and off this forum what you are bearing false witness about.

Some of us here pay attention period whether it be in Sabbath school, on this forum, or anyplace else...

There's enough truth in this post to make the lies look credible.

You can try to hijack the pay-attention Sabbath School line, and it might work for casual readers, but for those of us who have been reading here a long time, it's a bit of an insult.

[Johann]

...and that's fine as long as one does also take care of business with the courts as the person will continue to molest w/o the intervention of the law.

90-some % reoffend.... that's odds I don't want to play with.....

One of the problems is, in certain places, that too much time has passsed for legal proccess to take place.

[PeacefulBe]

Mr Pickle, Yes there is a defamation lawsuit going on, it would behoove you to remember that you are the defendant, you are accused of lying and slandering in everything mentioned in that lawsuit.

So, to keep asking what you been accused of or have lied about, and pretending you don't know is disingenuous, and also just plain ridiculous.

To further claim and act like you are the the one being slandered and persecuted because people don't like, or agree with what you have done and are doing, or because they don't believe you have proved what you say, and falsely accuse others of? Or to take offense at being called a slanderer and false accuser, or because your slanders and insults are pointed out, as your recent writings here on the forum and in court (even to attorneys) seems to me to suggest? well, it looks like you are either delusional or deceived. In any case you aren't dealing with reality IMHO.

You are and have been a SDA apologist for some time. You know that the best defense against lies is the truth. The best defense is not saying "here's my claim, prove I lied" as you do in the 3abn issues

{for example: 1.) you claimed there were multiple accusations of sexual offenses and one from a minor at the Church in Virginia but have you ever proven that there are multiple victims, or even one victim there? much less that Tommy Shelton is guilty? NO. 2. You claim Danny Shelton withheld and hid 190.000 dollars from Linda Shelton, and had a secret account with that in it. Have you proved that? No. 3. You claimed Remnant publications and Dwight... conspired with Danny Shelton to hide money from the 3ABN board. Have you proved that? No. I could go on as that is just a start, but won't here.)

So rather then running around in this forum taking offense and acting persecuted because people don't believe you, or demanding apologies all the time; why don't you concentrate on your court case and prove you are telling the truth there, where it counts???

Shouldn't that be your main focus right now? Rather then focusing on those who disagree with you, and attempting to persoanlly attck them, or post more slander??

As an apologist you know that the deceived and liars just avoid points and post diversions and are unable to answer, so go on the personal attack, yet you are evasive about answering questions directly,and keep diverting from the issue when you can't answer by bringing in a host of other things, and keep playing games with words, and attacking others.

What else have you lied about? well from my POV, most recently, the save3abn website. So has Joy btw...

So, here's your chance to come clean.
Are you the registrant, webmaster, author and host or owner of the save3abn website?
or is Joy?

I'm also wondering how you can now claim to be a creditor in Joy's bankruptcy case when he never listed you as one, and you aren't registered as a creditor, or with any claim in the court against him? Why did he never list that as a debt, whether exempt or otherwise, and why didn't he list the website as an asset or property which could be distributed to any creditor when the trustee did her investigation?. How could he not know the 3abn site was registered in his name when he answered the lawsuit complaint which claimed that, and which had that registration attached? Why does he claim you are the webmaster and yet he answers all the email to the webmaster?

and I want to know why you would support all this in court, and his testimony that he doesn't believe he is the owner?

When throughout numerous questions on this forum, you have pretended to have nothing to do with it and have even outright claimed "It's not my site"

I just asked you about it again the other day and you claimed you didn't stutter or spin that,..
yet in court you are saying you have 'ownership interest"

Is it or isn't it?

If it isn't Joy's site, and it isn't yours? who's could it be, Mr Pickle?

If needed I guess we can drag in all the relevant documents.

As far as FHB goes, I have read where he repeatedly has posted and told you what you falsely claimed, with documentation:
You falsely claimed Walt Thompson admitted in a letter that he was misled by Danny, which he did not.
You falsely claimed Danny admitted breaking into Linda's car, which he did not.
You also falsly claimed Danny divorced Linda cause she hid his gun..

he called you on all of that. I know there's more but those are just examples that I can remember offhand...

So-- Please stop trying to pretend you keep asking where you lied and no one can or will tell you. (yes, I saw where you claimed that in court)

You have been answered and told multiple times both in and off this forum what you are bearing false witness about.

Some of us here pay attention period whether it be in Sabbath school, on this forum, or anyplace else...

Somehow I missed this post, possibly because a lot of older threads have been bumped up to page one and burying many of the more recent threads in the process.

Ian, I believe what you have posted here bears further discussion. I happen to believe that a number of your thoughts and observations in this post make a lot of common sense and would hate to see them disappear out of view before we have a an opportunity to look at them in more depth.

Frankly, statements supported by documentation hold a lot of weight with many reading here, so if you don't mind spending the time posting the documents you refer to above, it might bring more clarity and credibility to the questions you are asking and the comments you are making.

[SoulEspresso]

Frankly, statements supported by documentation hold a lot of weight with many reading here, so if you don't mind spending the time posting the documents you refer to above, it might bring more clarity and credibility to the questions you are asking and the comments you are making.

This was so much more diplomatic. Thanks, PB!

[Johann]

This was so much more diplomatic. Thanks, PB!

Reasonable arguments are always welcome.

[princessdi]

I have alaways said he just should have bought a sports car and got a new hair piece. Would have cost him a LOT less trouble!

Ian or Apple? Anyway, I was being kind, actually Linda was a co- founder but if you think that changes the reality of Linda and Danny standing under the rainbow you really are missing it. I didnt even mention the fact that the stepdaughter accused him of inappropriate behavior. And I just asked the question dont you think there is a problem? I know what you are probably thinking God ordained it because Linda was a very bad Lady? It was a way of God getting back at Linda by blessing him with a younger more beautiful woman, please, go drink some coolaid. I most certainly do understand a older man leaving his wife and marrying a much younger lady, (It is called middle age crisis).

[Ian]

Somehow I missed this post, possibly because a lot of older threads have been bumped up to page one and burying many of the more recent threads in the process.

Ian, I believe what you have posted here bears further discussion. I happen to believe that a number of your thoughts and observations in this post make a lot of common sense and would hate to see them disappear out of view before we have a an opportunity to look at them in more depth.

Frankly, statements supported by documentation hold a lot of weight with many reading here, so if you don't mind spending the time posting the documents you refer to above, it might bring more clarity and credibility to the questions you are asking and the comments you are making.

Thank you PB for your reply. I'll see what I can do about getting those documents. I'm a little busy at the moment bu will get to this asap.

[Ozzie]

I have alaways said he just should have bought a sports car and got a new hair piece. Would have cost him a LOT less trouble!

LOL