Danny Shelton, Please Come Home!, It's time to stop running Options

[Richard Sherwin]

I don't know anything about the issue, and my guess is that many have not heard the story but by putting out a story, that you don't know to be true or not you've planted the idea in peoples minds that Danny inappropriately fired someone, based on a story not known to be true. Now this to me is slander, even though you did say you didn't know if you had the facts straight. You have plenty on Danny without resorting to questionable tactics and rumors to get your point across.

Because that story is the only thing I know of that has a bearing on whether he is an elder or not. And that story also illustrates the conflict of interest that the church has in dealing with Danny.

That being said, if you know another reason why the guy was fired and why he was fired when he was fired, let me know.

[Richard Sherwin]

Well said.

Well, all it is at this point is a story. If I were running a full-time parachurch ministry, I might be tempted not to attend church regularly myself. But then I wouldn't be serving as elder either, I guess.

Some of the most die-hard ministry people I know very rarely are ever at church because of the nature of their supporting ministry. Danny would fall into that category, IMO.

There are plenty of sticks he gives to his detractors which they can fairly beat him with, but this isn't one of them.

[Pickle]

I don't know anything about the issue, and my guess is that many have not heard the story but by putting out a story, that you don't know to be true or not you've planted the idea in peoples minds that Danny inappropriately fired someone, based on a story not known to be true. Now this to me is slander, even though you did say you didn't know if you had the facts straight. You have plenty on Danny without resorting to questionable tactics and rumors to get your point across.

I understand why you feel that way. If I shared a few more details, you would feel differently.

[Clay]

I understand why you feel that way. If I shared a few more details, you would feel differently.

fact or innuendo?

[PeacefulBe]

I don't know anything about the issue, and my guess is that many have not heard the story but by putting out a story, that you don't know to be true or not you've planted the idea in peoples minds that Danny inappropriately fired someone, based on a story not known to be true. Now this to me is slander, even though you did say you didn't know if you had the facts straight. You have plenty on Danny without resorting to questionable tactics and rumors to get your point across.

Richard, you and SE are making an important point about this story. I hope that everyone will ponder this as we go along.

Bob, I hope you can hear the wisdom in this and take it to heart.

[PeacefulBe]

fact or innuendo?

The way it is stated it is difficult to tell... but, without the facts it takes on the distinct character of innuendo, IMO.

[Pickle]

fact or innuendo?

It's a fact that there are more details, like names. I'll see if I can get permission to say more.

But even if I can get permission from the one allegedly fired, I'll still use terms like allegedly since I wasn't there and don't have confirmation from the "guilty" side. And that, I believe, has been my usual practice.

[Clay]

It's a fact that there are more details, like names. I'll see if I can get permission to say more.

But even if I can get permission from the one allegedly fired, I'll still use terms like allegedly since I wasn't there and don't have confirmation from the "guilty" side. And that, I believe, has been my usual practice.

the allegedly guilty side.... as for your usual practice.... hmmmmm... I'll leave that one alone...

[SoulEspresso]

the allegedly guilty side.... as for your usual practice.... hmmmmm... I'll leave that one alone...

I won't.

Bob and Gailon have done an admirable job in tackling areas that are documented or have eyewitnesses, and for that the Adventist church owes you guys. You stood up to the powers at 3ABN when nobody else would.

But there are areas, Bob, where you guys have resorted to questionable tactics, such as posting stuff on save3abn.com about people whom you don't know to be players, but doing so in such a way as to cast doubt on their characters. Then there were the Nick Miller communiques.

Not only do responsible believers have to do the right thing ... they have to do the right thing in the right way.

I've seen enough to draw my own conclusions about Danny, but these kinds of unsubstantiated and/or peripheral issues do not make you or your cause look better to the people who are following this.

[Clay]

I won't.

Bob and Gailon have done an admirable job in tackling areas that are documented or have eyewitnesses, and for that the Adventist church owes you guys. You stood up to the powers at 3ABN when nobody else would.

But there are areas, Bob, where you guys have resorted to questionable tactics, such as posting stuff on save3abn.com about people whom you don't know to be players, but doing so in such a way as to cast doubt on their characters. Then there were the Nick Miller communiques.

Not only do responsible believers have to do the right thing ... they have to do the right thing in the right way.

I've seen enough to draw my own conclusions about Danny, but these kinds of unsubstantiated and/or peripheral issues do not make you or your cause look better to the people who are following this.

you summarized much better than I could.... thanks.....

[sister]

I don't know anything about the issue, and my guess is that many have not heard the story but by putting out a story, that you don't know to be true or not you've planted the idea in peoples minds that Danny inappropriately fired someone, based on a story not known to be true. Now this to me is slander, even though you did say you didn't know if you had the facts straight. You have plenty on Danny without resorting to questionable tactics and rumors to get your point across.

This is not slander, I know the story that Bob mentioned and the individual involved. It is true. Perhaps it is time for another Chapter in "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN". The person in question is an ordained Seventh-day Adventist Pastor who was employed at 3ABN in the same capacity that Johann would later fill. At that time he opposed Danny Shelton being re-elected as an elder of the Thompsonville SDA Church, on the basis that the office of elder is not an honorary position and Danny did not meet the requirements of an elder. There is more to the story and it gives additional insight into the character of Danny Shelton... I will not rely on my memory to supply the details, but will contact the individual involved for more of the facts.

[Pickle]

Why thank you, Sister.

I've seen enough to draw my own conclusions about Danny, but these kinds of unsubstantiated and/or peripheral issues do not make you or your cause look better to the people who are following this.

Lots of people have complained, "Why doesn't the church do anything?" The conflict of interest issue at the Thompsonville Church, as illustrated by that story, addresses that concern. So it isn't really a peripheral issue, and it touches on another alleged case of wrongful termination. People should be fired from 3ABN for serious problems on the job, not for speaking their convictions at church.

[SoulEspresso]

Lots of people have complained, "Why doesn't the church do anything?" The conflict of interest issue at the Thompsonville Church, as illustrated by that story, addresses that concern. So it isn't really a peripheral issue, and it touches on another alleged case of wrongful termination. People should be fired from 3ABN for serious problems on the job, not for speaking their convictions at church.

I agree with the principle you stated here. Perhaps it was the way you put this particular issue earlier that raised my hackles. You've documented a lot of abuse-of-power issues at 3ABN and Thompsonville, but there wasn't enough information with this story initially to connect it to that. Even if it wasn't intended on your part, it came across at first as innuendo rather than substantiating facts. IOW at least with this kind of event, IMO, reporting with key facts omitted is counterproductive to your goals. Sister's corroboration was helpful up to a point.

But I would implore you both to remember that the ends don't justify the means, because the ends are up to God. All we down here have are means, and we've got to use the right ones.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Jan 13 2008, 08:43 PM

[Clay]

This is not slander, I know the story that Bob mentioned and the individual involved. It is true. Perhaps it is time for another Chapter in "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN". The person in question is an ordained Seventh-day Adventist Pastor who was employed at 3ABN in the same capacity that Johann would later fill. At that time he opposed Danny Shelton being re-elected as an elder of the Thompsonville SDA Church, on the basis that the office of elder is not an honorary position and Danny did not meet the requirements of an elder. There is more to the story and it gives additional insight into the character of Danny Shelton... I will not rely on my memory to supply the details, but will contact the individual involved for more of the facts.

Is this same scenario played and replayed in various adventist churches throughout North America? The nominating committee is stacked a certain way, nominating the favorites, ignoring the qualified? While not minimizing what may have happened in the Thompsonville church, the story is all too familiar...

[watchbird]

This is not slander, I know the story that Bob mentioned and the individual involved. It is true. Perhaps it is time for another Chapter in "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN". The person in question is an ordained Seventh-day Adventist Pastor who was employed at 3ABN in the same capacity that Johann would later fill. At that time he opposed Danny Shelton being re-elected as an elder of the Thompsonville SDA Church, on the basis that the office of elder is not an honorary position and Danny did not meet the requirements of an elder. There is more to the story and it gives additional insight into the character of Danny Shelton... I will not rely on my memory to supply the details, but will contact the individual involved for more of the facts.

Thank you for speaking up Sister... and yes... please do give us another Chapter in "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN." We have been missing your enlightening accounts of what you have witnessed first hand.