An Unauthorized History Of 3abn, Continues Options

[Green Cochoa]

One of the networks had a article about it a couple of weeks ago that indicated that the disease is being recognized by most as real now. Of course if you want to believe it's demon possession be my guest (Bee keeper has bad jokes this morning, needs more coffee) But you are right as time goes on it will be resolved, along with restless leg syndrome, CCD and the price of tea in China.

The price of tea in China?! Heh...how about some bees nest soup! LOL! (It would bee a rather sweet propolision, don't you 'spose?!) Well, for something to ponder...consider a few facts from these quotes:

This is the effect of ___X____. . . . It frequently manifests itself in tumors, ulcers, and cancers, years after it has been introduced into the system.

-----

"The physician's last resort was ____X____. For some time she seemed to be between life and death. She was thrown into convulsions. As these most distressing spasms ceased, we were aroused to the painful fact that her intellect was weakened. She began slowly to improve, although still a great sufferer. Her limbs were crippled as the effect of the powerful poisons which she had taken. She lingered a few years a helpless, pitiful sufferer, and died in much agony."

-----

My attention was then called to still another case. I was introduced into the sick room of a young man who was in a high fever. A physician was standing by the bedside of the sufferer with a portion of medicine taken from a vial upon which was written ____X____. He administered this chemical poison, and a change seemed to take place, but not for the better. {2SM 445.3}

-----

"This is the effect of ____X_____. It torments the system as long as there is a particle left in it. It ever lives, not losing its properties by its long stay in the living system. It inflames the joints, and often sends rottenness into the bones. It frequently manifests itself in tumors, ulcers, and cancers, years after it has been introduced into the system." {2SM 449.3}

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____Z____, ___X___, and ___Y___ have brought their amount of wretchedness, which the day of God alone will fully reveal. Preparations of ___Z___ and ___X___ taken into the system ever retain their poisonous strength as long as there is a particle of it left in the system. These poisonous preparations have destroyed their millions, and left sufferers upon the earth to linger out a miserable existence. All are better off without these dangerous mixtures. Miserable sufferers, with disease in almost every form, mis-shapen by suffering, with dreadful ulcers, and pains in the bones, loss of teeth, loss of memory, and impaired sight, are to be seen almost every where. They are victims of poisonous preparations, which have been, in many cases, administered to cure some slight indisposition, which after a day or two of fasting would have disappeared without medicine. But poisonous mixtures, administered by physicians, have proved their ruin. {4aSG 139.2}

Would you be interested in what X, Y, and Z would be? X contains Z, and therefore we might say that Z is really the culprit in each of these statements. Would you like to see a few more things suspected or attributed to Z nowadays?

• Alzheimer's Disease
• Amyloidosis
• Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis
• Asthma
• Autoimmune disorders
• Benign Essential Tremor
• Bipolar Disease
• Birth defects, including "genetic"
• Cancer
• Candida Syndrome
• Cardiac Arrhythmias
• Cardiomyopathy
• Cataracts
• Deafness
• Depression, Endogenous
• Diabetes Mellitus
• Down's Syndrome
• Endometriosis
• Environmental Illness
• Erythema Nodosum
• Fibromyalgia
• Glaucoma
• Hashimoto's thyroiditis
• Headaches
• Hodgkin's Disease
• Huntington's Chorea
• Hyperlipidemia
• Immunodeficiency states
• Infertility
• Interstitial Cystitis
• Leukemia
• Macular Degeneration
• Memory loss
• Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
• Multiple Sclerosis
• Nephrotic Syndrome
• Obesity
• Osteoporosis
• Parkinson's Disease
• Rheumatoid Arthritis
• Sarcoidosis
• Schizophrenia
• Spastic Torticollis
• Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
• Thyroiditis
• Tic Doloreaux
• Tinnitus
• Ulcerative Colitis
• Vertigo

Keep thee, truly, Z-free! Ah...and I hear it killz beez too, eh? Sound interesting?

Blessings!

Greenie.

[awesumtenor]

Shouldn't the church have been told what the difficulty was so that they could have voted intelligently?

That's not how the nominating process works. Any member is entitled to object to the report when it is read. If there is an objection the entire report goes back to the nominating committee and a time is set for those who have objections to appear before the committee. The committee hears the nature of the objection and then the objector is excused and the committee deliberates over the objection. If the committee finds the objection has merit then they have an obligation to remove that person from consideration.

Given the nature of this situation... particularly the fact that members tasked with making the decision depended on the person being considered for their livelihood, says it wouldn't matter what the objection was; they weren't going to put themselves out there like that... regardless of how valid the objection was.

So a church building off 3ABN's premises was owned by 3ABN, not the Thompsonville Church and the Conference? Who allowed that kind of thing to happen? When did it happen? Why didn't the conference deal with this?

The Illinois Conference made themselves beholden to Danny Shelton by allowing him to pay half the pastor's salary and by allowing him to allow them to use a 3ABN building rather than the Conference's owning the church outright which is the norm in the Adventist church. What makes it worse is the Union and the NAD sat by and let it happen. by allowing these things to happen they made DS the de facto ruler of that church. he controls who will and who will not pastor there because if he doesn't like the way things are headed, he always has the threat of taking his toys and going home... this would probably force the thompsonville church into a 2 church district where they'd have to share a pastor with another church and they'd have to find another place to conduct their services... which may or may not be within their fiscal means.

It's not just the conference, Bob; there is culpability for this all the way up the church hierarchy to the GC level.

In His service,
Mr. J

[princessdi]

Exactly, AT!!!

[GRAT]

Greenie, did I miss something? What is "Z"?

[sonshineonme]

Greenie, did I miss something? What is "Z"?

GRAT!! ROFL!!! I'm SO glad you were brave enough to ask (I was not ). I was hanging back thinking "I can figure this out, I just need coffee first....had coffee - well, I thought I could figure it out...I can't figure it out....I should ask, well, I might look stupid if I ask...I'll wait for someone else to ask..." AND YOU DID!! I'm glad I wasn't alone!

[sonshineonme]

That's not how the nominating process works. Any member is entitled to object to the report when it is read. If there is an objection the entire report goes back to the nominating committee and a time is set for those who have objections to appear before the committee. The committee hears the nature of the objection and then the objector is excused and the committee deliberates over the objection. If the committee finds the objection has merit then they have an obligation to remove that person from consideration.

Given the nature of this situation... particularly the fact that members tasked with making the decision depended on the person being considered for their livelihood, says it wouldn't matter what the objection was; they weren't going to put themselves out there like that... regardless of how valid the objection was.




The Illinois Conference made themselves beholden to Danny Shelton by allowing him to pay half the pastor's salary and by allowing him to allow them to use a 3ABN building rather than the Conference's owning the church outright which is the norm in the Adventist church. What makes it worse is the Union and the NAD sat by and let it happen. by allowing these things to happen they made DS the de facto ruler of that church. he controls who will and who will not pastor there because if he doesn't like the way things are headed, he always has the threat of taking his toys and going home... this would probably force the thompsonville church into a 2 church district where they'd have to share a pastor with another church and they'd have to find another place to conduct their services... which may or may not be within their fiscal means.

It's not just the conference, Bob; there is culpability for this all the way up the church hierarchy to the GC level.

In His service,
Mr. J

Sadly, I agree.

[awesumtenor]

Greenie, did I miss something? What is "Z"?

That would be mercury... gotta follow the EGW quote. I think Greenie was being clever again... tho some would say for very small values of $CLEVER...

In His service,
Mr. J

[sonshineonme]

That would be mercury... gotta follow the EGW quote. I think Greenie was being clever again... tho some would say for very small values of $CLEVER...

In His service,
Mr. J

I was guessing aluminum

[PeacefulBe]

I was guessing aluminum

And I was worried it was coffee!

[sonshineonme]

And I was worried it was coffee!

(shhhh, that was my first thought, but I was in denial and didn't even want to mention that word... )

[GRAT]

That would be mercury... gotta follow the EGW quote. I think Greenie was being clever again... tho some would say for very small values of $CLEVER...

In His service,
Mr. J

Thank you! I guess I was being lazy.

[beartrap]

To my recollection an individual donor from TN provided 3ABN with the money for the purchase of the church building specifically for the purpose of housing the Thompsonville (3ABN) SDA church. That, to my recollection, was the reason he provided the money to buy the building. I don't recall that he ever placed a rent caveat in the deal. He simply purchased the church through 3ABN so the the "Thompsonville" congregation would have a church building in which to meet. Prior to that, we were meeting in the studio each Sabbath. As I recall, our congregation was not recognized by the conference until after we had the new building. Then we were a "company" for a number of years. At some point we became a church, but I dont remember when. Over time, the memory becomes fuzzy on so many details.

Later a lady donated a large sum of money to purchase land and construct a santuary museum for 3ABN. The land was purchased, the building was constructed, and then it was turned into the new church. I am not sure what happened to the sanctuary museum idea, but to my knowledge it went away. I do know that Ted Tessner donated a Sanctuary set for the new museum, and then it was returned to him and I think it was donated to Oklahoma Academy.

In any case, I visited the Thompsonville (3ABN) church (my home church) this last weekend and was privileged to shake hands with and hug so many wonderful people who I have not seen in a long time, people who I miss, love, and appreciate. I went to Sabbath School with my precious babies and ended up having a couple of their friends spending their weekend with us during this visit. Regardless of the water that has passed under the bridge, I have many friends and people who I love and miss in the Thompsonville church today.

Pastor Jean Fiscalini and Kris are also a couple of wonderful people who I hold close to my heart. I have known Kris since college at Weimar. LOL! The stories that could be told! We were friends before either of us knew about 3ABN. (Please Kris! Don't tell them about the apple toilet or the carrot ballet dancer!) There are many people who could say many things regarding this story, but life is short and precious, and priorities are paramount. I sincerely hope and pray to our Creator that each party in this horrendous mess finds true happiness and peace at some point. I have moved on, built a new life, a new career, found a place where I have a wall of protection around me, and have become a very happy man. I pray the Creator for peace and happiness for each person involved in this mess. Each one is a human child of our divine father, and is, therefore, my sibling in his family. Danny, Linda, Kris, Sister, Jean, Ian, Appletree, and everyone else in the saga are my family, and I love you. You are my fellow children of our great Creator. I know most of you on a very personal level and value you.

Your fellow cub in the family of the Father of our souls.

[Ozzie]

[b]Oh for pity's sake.[/b]

What would you submit in a court of law from this thread as evidence?!?

IMO this is what is wrong with so much of your reporting You jump from one to three and leave out two. There is zero evidence in this thread about why Mr F would have cause to be afraid beforehand, and there izero evidence in this thread tying the event in question to the loss of Mr F's employment. Sister hasn't even written her version yet of how or when or why he was fired, if that is even the case.

Strange terminology for a male to use. I've only ever heard females say "Oh for pity's sake" but then, Ian may be that way inclined?

[Observer]

The Illinois Conference made themselves beholden to Danny Shelton by allowing him to pay half the pastor's salary and by allowing him to allow them to use a 3ABN building rather than the Conference's owning the church outright which is the norm in the Adventist church. What makes it worse is the Union and the NAD sat by and let it happen. by allowing these things to happen they made DS the de facto ruler of that church. he controls who will and who will not pastor there because if he doesn't like the way things are headed, he always has the threat of taking his toys and going home... this would probably force the thompsonville church into a 2 church district where they'd have to share a pastor with another church and they'd have to find another place to conduct their services... which may or may not be within their fiscal means.

It's not just the conference, Bob; there is culpability for this all the way up the church hierarchy to the GC level.

In His service,
Mr. J

The above is NOT an unusual situation.

I have pastored congregations (plural) where thebuilding was not owned by the congregation. That still happens today. It is becomming more common for a congregation to pay part, or all, of a pastor's salary. It is not against NAD policy for such to be the case.


Of course such a situation may have problems, but so do all other types sof ownership and pay.

One other comment: Congregations can elect whom they want as Elders (or any other officer). They can assign whatever duties to that person, or no duties at all. All is allowed.

The Thompsonville congregation was well within its authority to elect Danny as Elder and to give him no duties, if they chose to do so.

Some will argue that the congregation should not have elected him as Elder. But, that is a different issue. One point on which SDA conservatives and liberals agree is that the local congregation should have the power to elect whomever they wish to positions of leadership without the interference of higher denominational administrators.

Local congregations may even place people in positions of leadership who are not members of the SDA church, as has been done at times, as I am personally aware of.


This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 29 2008, 05:19 AM

[Johann]

The above is NOT an unusual situation.

I have pastored congregations (plural) where thebuilding was not owned by the congregation. That still happens today. It is becomming more common for a congregation to pay part, or all, of a pastor's salary. It is not against NAD policy for such to be the case.


Of course such a situation may have problems, but so do all other types sof ownership and pay.

One other comment: Congregations can elect whom they want as Elders (or any other officer). They can assign whatever duties to that person, or no duties at all. All is allowed.

The Thompsonville congregation was well within its authority to elect Danny as Elder and to give him no duties, if they chose to do so.

Some will argue that the congregation should not have elected him as Elder. But, that is a different issue. One point on which SDA conservatives and liberals agree is that the local congregation should have the power to elect whomever they wish to positions of leadership without the interference of higher denominational administrators.

Local congregations may even place people in positions of leadership who are not members of the SDA church, as has been done at times, as I am personally aware of.

I fully endorse all thar Observer says in this post.