An Unauthorized History Of 3abn, Continues Options

[YogusBearus]

What percentage of church buildings off premises of an institutional campus are owned by the institution rather than the church or conference? Sounds rather unique to me.

But I don't know that my questions have been answered. Was this a church building off premises and yet at the same time owned by 3ABN?

I'm not sure my simple question was ever answered either: Here

It may be that this is not currently answerable. If so, no problem.

-bear

[Johann]

In every story or event, there are different viewpoints or recollections, not necessarily right or wrong, just different because of what that person may have seen or heard, or known at the time. I asked some questions regarding all this, and got answers slightly different from Sisters novelized account. Actually I did not hear anything like her version aka the Fiscalini version.
Granted I did not talk to every single person who was a member of the Thompsonville Church at that time.

I myself wasn't there, and can't necessarily vouch for any of this on a personal level, nor can I give the names here, but I do feel these quotes are enough to demonstrate to the members here and the readers, that the truth is not always found by listening to one side of the story no matter how much it tickles your ears. Ask questions of as many as you can, and try to see something from all sides before making up your mind about something, and really if it can't be verified and proven, discretion is the best course, simply reserve judgment.

There's no cliffhaning suspense or drama, or eloquent language, in wha follows. I don't pretend to be a story teller, but I do hope and pray that this is helpful to some.

Thank you, Ian, for taking a second look. I was not there at the time, so I cannot vouch for which version is the correct one - from my own personal experience. But I was there when certain other things happened, and I have heard just as strage versions in cliffhanging suspense and drama which I have not recognized. So your account is really helping me understand the whole big drama of what happened during the months of February to June 2004.

Again, thank you for your investigation. Keep on, and you will discover some fascinating results.

Let me give you a small sample as a hint.

Danny Shelton sent out a number of fascinating letters giving incredible details of Linda's wrongdoings at the most unthinkable times and situations. In one of these he claimed that when Linda and Brenda attended the Moss church in Norway at a midweek meeting in February 2004, Linda had right there done something very unbecoming of a married woman. When I read that fascinating storyteller's account I wondered. If the story was true, as told, then I miight hesitate supporting Linda any more in her plight.

An interesting part is that some of the accounts I received came to me from people who had written to Danny to find out what happened. And they had received these stories from him and were convinced Danny was telling the truth, and they sent them to me to convince me too.

Therefore I did just what you have done. I started my own investigation. Just like you, I was not present at that meeting, but it so happened that this was the church where I preached my first Sabbath sermon after I graduated from the ministerial course in Norway. Therefore I had access to a number of people who were present there that evening.

I talked to one person who, in a way, verified Danny's story. He saw these two ladies there, Linda and Brenda, and I even discovered that he had told someone else that Linda had done something that evening which a married woman should not have done. When I asked him some more questions I discovered he had never seen any of these two American women before, and therefore had not been certain which one was Linda or Brenda.

I also talked to the church pastor who not only knew Linda, but had been her interpreter that whole evening and had observed her closely. He assured me that Linda had never done anything unethical that evening, but had participated in the service.

Then I talked to others and found out what Brenda had done that evening, highly questionable according to my informants who had observed it themselves. . .

In the fictionalized version that Danny sent out to people it was Linda who did the things Brenda actually had done.

I received so many such fictionalized stories that I had to investigate for myself, just like you have done, and the conclusions were always just like you state. That is one reason why I have taken the stand I have.

You came to the following conclusion:

" Once again in her ["Sister"] evil ways she is taking some seeds and making lies out of them. Always confusing facts with fiction."

Investigating the fictionalized stories which started this whole issue led me to a conclusion where I could use a similar wording, namely,

"Once again in his ["Danny Shelton"] evil ways he was taking some seeds and making lies out fo them. Always confusing facts with fiction."

So, Ian, we could join forces and do a thorough investigation that would lead us to some very provocative conclusions. Shall we do that?

[appletree]

Why was the Thompsonville SDA church formed? Unable to have the control he desired at the West Frankfort SDA church, Danny picked up his marbles and founded the Thompsonville SDA Church, which consisted himself and a tiny group of 3ABN employees...

Sister, sister, I would like to address several things.
1. I'm glad you feel secure in your "secret identity." The more secure you feel the more accusations you make. Not that anymore is needed. You have written enough '"factual fiction" to sink your own boat. I feel though, that I should add, your sense of security is a totally false one. As the old saying goes "There is more than one way to skin a cat." Did you honestly think that all of this time there would be no way for you to be traced down?
Ok then, carry on.

2. You said I didn't mention names of who I talked to about Mr. & Mrs. F. That is ironic since I don't see you bringing anyone forward to back up their allegations and mistreatment at T'church. As Ian said, that is their side of the story. Numerous, and I repeat, numerous members of the church tell a completely different story. Several of those that I talked to held offices at that time so were aware of the dissention that was caused.

3. Really this whole story is not worth even discussing as things like this are common occurences in most churches. Not to mention the fact that somehow, someway, you have tried to tie Danny into the equation as some kind of "evil doer" in your account of things. Let's look at some facts.

A. DS said he couldn't be an active Elder and would rather not hold that office.
B. You say that he left WF church because he couldn't control it....If he wanted to control the church why would he offer to turn down the role of Elder? Why would he say upfront, that he wouldn't be able to come to most board meetings. (The lack of presence at board meetings was one of your main points in your little story) So, which is it? You can't have it both ways. You can't control something if you aren't there.
C. Since DS didn't want the Elder role I fail to find what controversy that you have painted. DS agreed with Mr. F. that he shouldn't have that office. But, nowhere in your story is that mentioned. Did Mr. F not mention it to you or did you accidentally on purpose leave it out as you usually do?
Again, I say, Where's the fight. DS agreed with Mr. F and caused no trouble about F's suggestion that he not be made an Elder. The pastor, Elders and the church ultimately disagreed. So...we are faulting Danny on this...how?

4. You try to make it sound that 3abn buying the building and letting the church use it however they deemed fit, was a bad thing. Sounds pretty generous to me. We have already proved it wasn't a control factor since he ask not to be involved. To try and paint an ugly picture from that scenerio is really quite a stretch. Even those on "your side" see your hatred for Danny whether they admit it or not. It is very obvious when you write your "stories" how many true facts that you leave out and how you spin events that did happen to paint a totally different picture.

You mentioned something about my "having time" to talk to people and idol hands etc etc(or something to that effect) Let me tell you something. I am not the one that has spent countless hours writing dramatic, sensationalistic stories full of hate and revenge. Now, that, consumed some time. Maybe your time would be better spent moving along with your life instead of living, breathing and immersing yourself in your hatred of Danny and 3abn.

As far as your comment that it was Danny and a tiny group of 3abn employees...It was Danny & Linda and a small group. But look at it now!!! I guestimate the attendence now is around 150+!!! Isn't God Good?

This post has been edited by appletree: Jan 27 2008, 04:37 PM

[princessdi]

Just a couple of comments/questions, Ian:

Here's one account:
When the Fiscalini's were at 3ABN we were at the old church. 3ABN owned the church building and let the SDA church use the building for free. Rick Odle was the Pastor. He wanted, rather gently insisted that Danny remain an elder and be on the church board, over Danny's objections that because of his work at 3ABN and travel's around the world.he could hardly ever be there and would not attend very many meetings, .

What were the reasons for asking Danny to be Elder?

Out of respect for his position at 3ABN and the work he did in the ministry.

Danny took the responsibility of being an elder all through the week, not just on Sabbath's or once in a while as others do,

Actually, Pastor F was right, they should have made him honorary elder. They never intended him to be a funtional elder, and honoray can still function when needed, or in Danny's case, as available. I don't really see his request as unreasonable. They don't "owe" Danny anything but gratitude for the use of the building. Especailly the office of Elder should not be given because you "owe' it to someone. They need to serve. We had a pastor form another church join our church , our pastor told him he was automatically and elder in our church. This caused a misunderstanding which still has not been resolved. My pastor tired to "resolve" it by having the nominating comm. recommend him as an elder just on the basis of him being a pastor of another church/denom. We weren't going for it. No office hsould just be given because of a person's perceived status. Danny could have insisted, but I really think he expected it. He let them "use" the building for free. False modesty............Not entirely covninced of his "protests".


Their were people like the Fiscalinis who constantly voting to remodel, paint, etc without the church having the money to do so. Danny's presence on the board, even when not there, reminded people that they could not spend 3ABN money without 3ABN agreeing to it.

There were people like Henry and Sandra and the Fiscalini's who constantly wanted to remind people that the SDA church was not 3ABN's church, but that it was a Conf. church. That was fine with Danny. The problem is that they acted like the building was their to do with as they wanted, without any money to pay for any changes. Also, they would vote for the church to have evangelistic outreach for the community, but did not have any money to pay for it, so it would leave 3ABN holding the bag. They had to be reminded that they couldn't have it both ways.

They wanted to act independantly but didn't have the money to back it up!

Danny being on the board, in Rick's words, would nip that kind of thinking in the "bud". When someone was pushing some such agenda he would always remind them that they would have to get 3ABN's permission before spending 3ABN's money.

Ok so this is why this gets real sticky. Did 3ABN still own the building? Or did they donate the building to the church?

If they did still own the building, why was there not some kind of agreement. It is still something of a landlord/tennet kind of arragement even though there is no "rent" being paid, and Danny IS responsible for the upkeep of the building. He culd have revoked the "gift" as easily as they gave it. The church has the right to make the request of the landlord.

If Danny donated the buidling then the church can vote all they want, they will have to vote what their church budget can do, and it has nothing at all to do with 3ABN.

The third thing is that it needs to be clear that were are no strings attached to this gift. However, as I understand it now, the churchin actually now on 3ABN grounds, that further complicates things. Questions easily arise about who'e church it is. The conferences or 3ABN. that fact that 3ABN pays a portion of the pastor's salary just muddy's the water even more. This is a really touchy situation, and everything must be as ptranparent as possible. My impression is that ALL of DAnny's decsions are business" decisions. Meaning always give and take.

And another:
"The part about Danny went like this. He was nominated by the nominating committe to be an elder. He told the pastor that he could not be an active elder due to the obvious...... The pastor said it was important because 3abn owned the church building. Danny let the "church" use the building rent free but here was the problem. There were several couples including Linda's couple [Henry and Sandra Juarez] that would get ideas about painting or wall papering the church which was fine with Danny. Only trouble is, they thought 3abn should pay for any improvements. Danny said he didn't agree. They got to use the church for free and it was fine with him to do whatever as far as decorating but they would have to use their own money, not 3ABN's."

and another:
"The nominating committee via the Pastor told danny that he needed to be an elder since 3abn owned the building and decisions might need to be made accordingly..also (and more importantly) felt that Danny was an active elder everyday, not just Sabbaths because of the ministry work he was doing and should hold that office. Danny said he would be able to come to very few board meetings and whatnot. "


Personal note: 3 people were talked to about this couple and the mere mention of their names caused rolling of the eyes and sighs all around.

One said, "the year or so they were involved was a year of hell."

and more:
"When the church went to vote in the officers Mr. F. stood up and said he had some questions about one of the nominees. He insisted that the present elders, the pastor and Danny go to a private room to discuss it. By calling Danny back there, everyone immediately knew that Danny was the one in question. Pretty embarrasing huh?

He told Danny that he didn't think he should be an elder ...and Danny told him that he didn't ask to be and really didn't want to accept it but the pastor and other elders insisted. The pastor then talked to Mr. F. and said he was the only one objecting and no one else had a problem and that he felt, that Danny had the role of elder everyday. Danny was voted in. Mr & Mrs. F were furious."

"I think part of the time Fiscilinis were there the Samuel Thomas was pastor. No one that I knew of had any respect for Fiscalini as he was always wanting to be 'in charge' "

"I understood that he held the title of pastor before coming here and wanted badly to be appointed as such between Rick Odle and Samuel Thomas's pastorship's. That was a hope of his own that had nothing to do with reality."

"Fiscalini tried to start a coup so he could be pastor. You should ask "sister" how they felf about Rick as the pastor of the church. I could go on but it would be a waste of time."

"If he was fired from 3abn, ...that had nothing to do with the T'ville church, that's a conference church."

" Once again in her ["Sister"] evil ways she is taking some seeds and making lies out of them. Always confusing facts with fiction."

[Seraphim7]

Sister, sister, I would like to address several things.
1. I'm glad you feel secure in your "secret identity." The more secure you feel the more accusations you make. Not that anymore is needed. You have written enough '"factual fiction" to sink your own boat. I feel though, that I should add, your sense of security is a totally false one. As the old saying goes "There is more than one way to skin a cat." Did you honestly think that all of this time there would be no way for you to be traced down?
Ok then, carry on.

2. You said I didn't mention names of who I talked to about Mr. & Mrs. F. That is ironic since I don't see you bringing anyone forward to back up their allegations and mistreatment at T'church. As Ian said, that is their side of the story. Numerous, and I repeat, numerous members of the church tell a completely different story. Several of those that I talked to held offices at that time so were aware of the dissention that was caused.

3. Really this whole story is not worth even discussing as things like this are common occurences in most churches. Not to mention the fact that somehow, someway, you have tried to tie Danny into the equation as some kind of "evil doer" in your account of things. Let's look at some facts.

A. DS said he couldn't be an active Elder and would rather not hold that office.
B. You say that he left WF church because he couldn't control it....If he wanted to control the church why would he offer to turn down the role of Elder? Why would he say upfront, that he wouldn't be able to come to most board meetings. (The lack of presence at board meetings was one of your main points in your little story) So, which is it? You can't have it both ways. You can't control something if you aren't there.
C. Since DS didn't want the Elder role I fail to find what controversy that you have painted. DS agreed with Mr. F. that he shouldn't have that office. But, nowhere in your story is that mentioned. Did Mr. F not mention it to you or did you accidentally on purpose leave it out as you usually do?
Again, I say, Where's the fight. DS agreed with Mr. F and caused no trouble about F's suggestion that he not be made an Elder. The pastor, Elders and the church ultimately disagreed. So...we are faulting Danny on this...how?

4. You try to make it sound that 3abn buying the building and letting the church use it however they deemed fit, was a bad thing. Sounds pretty generous to me. We have already proved it wasn't a control factor since he ask not to be involved. To try and paint an ugly picture from that scenerio is really quite a stretch. Even those on "your side" see your hatred for Danny whether they admit it or not. It is very obvious when you write your "stories" how many true facts that you leave out and how you spin events that did happen to paint a totally different picture.

You mentioned something about my "having time" to talk to people and idol hands etc etc(or something to that effect) Let me tell you something. I am not the one that has spent countless hours writing dramatic, sensationalistic stories full of hate and revenge. Now, that, consumed some time. Maybe your time would be better spent moving along with your life instead of living, breathing and immersing yourself in your hatred of Danny and 3abn.

As far as your comment that it was Danny and a tiny group of 3abn employees...It was Danny & Linda and a small group. But look at it now!!! I guestimate the attendence now is around 150+!!! Isn't God Good?

?

[Seraphim7]

Just a couple of questions, Ian:

PDi, where are the questions?

[JustTheFaxMan]

Should we be talking about someone maybe having a mental illness? This to me seems to going further than facts and into the realm of rumors and speculation.

My apologies to those offended as I never intended to set off a firestorm. I merely reported verbatim what i was told by someone who participated in the events in question. Infact, I did not even pry into what they meant by "mental illness" as I did not think it was any of my business to know. For all I knew, Mrs. Fiscalli was under stress simply due to the situation she and her husband found themselves in. Also, in my experience, many doctors and most insurance companies consider physical problems such as chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia mental impairments although i am certain the person who has them does not consider them to be.

Since i often consider myself to suffer from one or more mental illnesses on any given day, I do not see it in the same way apparently as some of the rest of you I guess.

This post has been edited by JustTheFaxMan: Jan 27 2008, 06:15 PM

[sister]

My apologies to those offended as I never intended to set off a firestorm. I merely reported verbatim what i was told by someone who participated in the events in question. Infact, I did not even pry into what they meant by "mental illness" as I did not think it was any of my business to know. For all I knew, Mrs. Fiscalli was under stress simply due to the situation she and her husband found themselves in. Also, in my experience, many doctors and most insurance companies consider physical problems such as chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia mental impairments although i am certain the person who has them does not consider them to be.

Since i often consider myself to suffer from one or more mental illnesses on any given day, I do not see it in the same way apparently as some of the rest of you I guess.

FaxMan, I am sure that Mrs. Fiscalini was probably under stress, which is very different than suffering from a "mental illness". It probably would have been wiser to end your post with a simple apology for reporting an unsubstantiated rumor from a single unnamed source as fact. I assume that you are now suggesting that Mrs. Fiscalini suffers from one of the two illnesses listed above. If that is the case than be informed that neither Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Nor Fibromyalgia are considered "mental impairments", check your facts, FaxMan, before you post. You are obivously not a physican nor educated in regard to the medical conditions for which you are claiming to have experience. According to the website of the Mayo Clinic (www.mayoclinic.com):

Fibromyalgia is a chronic condition characterized by widespread pain in your muscles, ligaments and tendons, as well as fatigue and multiple tender points — places on your body where slight pressure causes pain. Fibromyalgia is more common in women than in men. Previously, fibromyalgia was known by other names such as fibrositis, chronic muscle pain syndrome, psychogenic rheumatism and tension myalgias.

Although the intensity of your symptoms may vary, they'll probably never disappear completely. It may be reassuring to know, however, that fibromyalgia isn't progressive or life-threatening. Treatments and self-care steps can improve fibromyalgia symptoms and your general health.

Chronic fatigue syndrome is a flu-like condition that can drain your energy and, sometimes, last for years. People previously healthy and full of energy may experience a variety of signs and symptoms.

People with chronic fatigue syndrome exhibit signs and symptoms similar to those of most common viral infections. Unlike flu (influenza) symptoms, which usually subside in a few days or weeks, the signs and symptoms of CFS can last much longer. They may come and go frequently with no identifiable pattern.

In addition to persistent fatigue, not caused by other known medical conditions, chronic fatigue syndrome has eight possible primary signs and symptoms. Chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms include:

Loss of memory or concentration
Sore throat
Painful and mildly enlarged lymph nodes in your neck or armpits
Unexplained muscle soreness
Pain that moves from one joint to another without swelling or redness
Headache of a new type, pattern or severity
Sleep disturbance
Extreme exhaustion lasting more than 24 hours after physical or mental exercise

This post has been edited by sister: Jan 27 2008, 08:22 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

Having a mentally stable wife (though considering the man she married some have doubts) with Fibromyalgia I do concur that it is an actual ailment. It's so bad we are considering moving to a house that has less stairs as they cause her a lot of pain. Very much a physical problem but one that can affect a persons mental happiness because of the constant pain. Just my 2 Ameros worth.

I assume that you are now suggesting that Mrs. Fiscalini suffers from one of the two illnesses listed above. If that is the case than be informed that neither Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Nor Fibromyalgia are considered "mental impairments", check your facts, FaxMan, before you post. You are obivously not a physican nor educated in regard to the medical conditions for which you are claiming to have experience. According to the website of the Mayo Clinic (www.mayoclinic.com):

[sister]

Having a mentally stable wife (though considering the man she married some have doubts) with Fibromyalgia I do concur that it is an actual ailment. It's so bad we are considering moving to a house that has less stairs as they cause her a lot of pain. Very much a physical problem but one that can affect a persons mental happiness because of the constant pain. Just my 2 Ameros worth.

Richard, I too have an extended family member that suffers from Fibromyalgia. She is an older woman, her husband has already retired and they, too, have moved to an apartment where she has no stairs to climb because of pain. She is mentally stable as well, no doctor has ever suggested that her physical aliment is a "mental illness". Unfortunately, when the ignorant or uninformed offer speculation on medical conditions their "facts" can fall far short of reality and cause unnecessary anguish in an already difficult situation.

This post has been edited by sister: Jan 27 2008, 08:40 PM

[Clay]

the debate goes on about this issue... there are doctors who suggest fibromyalgia does not exist and those who say that it does..... the record must reflect this division in my opinion..... depends on who you want to believe I suppose...

an example:

With fibromyalgia, the woman has often felt crummy for years and years and just can't imagine not feeling bad. She doesn't remember what healthy felt like. She spends her days feeling the pain and that exacerbates the pain and further sensitizes her to it. It's a vicious cycle. She has also been dismissed by a multitude of doctors. She may end up in pain management. She may end up in the psychiatrist's office. And, she might need both, but she feels that her history and story haven't been honored.

With many fibromyalgia sufferers, there is often an underlying event that precipitates the episode. It takes some detective work to get to it. Sometimes the "cause" is never found but with enough lifestyle changes, the syndrome can be managed. Anecdotally, I've found that many fibromyalgia sufferers have suffered childhood traumas such as abuse, sexual abuse or something similar. This is not so strange. One of the history questions for Junior Rheumatoid Arthritis is whether the child has an alcoholic parent. Very often, he or she does. I have yet to work with a fibromyalgia patient who doesn't have an emotional component to the syndrome.

These ladies, and some men, need encouragement and support. They are, without fail, sensitive souls who I believe "absorb" the pain around them. Helping them to create boundaries both in their relationships and for their own psychological safety is paramount to future health. It is a frustrating disease and the people who endure the pain experience real suffering.

So, while I believe that fibromyalgia is a bogus diagnosis and shouldn't be masked with some new drug sure to score pharmaceutical companies money, I believe that these patients should be taken seriously. Something is wrong. That something needs to be found. And in these days of managed care, rushed appointments and overtaxed doctors, patients are often dismissed as crazy. It's just easier than admitting that the doctor is baffled.

and I have read some info on the other side of the debate just as compelling.....

[mystery- man]

FaxMan, I am sure that Mrs. Fiscalini was probably under stress, which is very different than suffering from a "mental illness". It probably would have been wiser to end your post with a simple apology for reporting an unsubstantiated rumor from a single unnamed source as fact. I assume that you are now suggesting that Mrs. Fiscalini suffers from one of the two illnesses listed above. If that is the case than be informed that neither Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Nor Fibromyalgia are considered "mental impairments", check your facts, FaxMan, before you post. You are obivously not a physican nor educated in regard to the medical conditions for which you are claiming to have experience. According to the website of the Mayo Clinic (www.mayoclinic.com):

Sister, I understand your frustration over the situation and the percieved need to out Danny. I will only say this, God is not dead and without the power to handle Danny. It would do well for you to consider very carefully your situation and be sure you are not becomming like them. Sometimes we, when wronged, feel it necessary to handle the situation, however I feel with Danny that enough is already known even if you never wrote anything to let the thinking person know what the score is. Sometimes we think that the Adventist religion is the whole world but believe me it is not and there are many individuals who have never heard of Adventism. Even some of the ones that have heard have been given a lie. I remember when Moses was facing the Red Sea he would say in the movie, "stand back and see the salvation of the Lord". I believe if we would quiet, since it is already been outed what he has done, that indeed the Lord would handle him. Please, stop and give the lord now the chance to handle him. If we would be quiet I am possitive that the Lord would handle him and the leadership that has not repented.
God is alive and well, he has allowed us to cover it on 4 different forums Danny will not escape.

[Richard Sherwin]

Most researcher are now convinced it's real. In my wife's case she was originally diagnosed as having arthritis, which she does have to an extent but then they realized it was more than that. She can function and work but it's with more or less constant discomfort.

Many times it's diagnosed by a process of elimination, which can lead some to believe it's all in the head.

We're seeing the same scenario being played out with this new disease, Morgellons. Time will tell if it's real or not.

I know we are OT, but sometimes it's better to be OT than the forever rehashing and people bashing that is the MO for these threads....

the debate goes on about this issue... there are doctors who suggest fibromyalgia does not exist and those who say that it does..... the record must reflect this division in my opinion..... depends on who you want to believe I suppose...

an example:
and I have read some info on the other side of the debate just as compelling.....

[Clay]

Most researcher are now convinced it's real. In my wife's case she was originally diagnosed as having arthritis, which she does have to an extent but then they realized it was more than that. She can function and work but it's with more or less constant discomfort.

Many times it's diagnosed by a process of elimination, which can lead some to believe it's all in the head.

We're seeing the same scenario being played out with this new disease, Morgellons. Time will tell if it's real or not.

I know we are OT, but sometimes it's better to be OT than the forever rehashing and people bashing that is the MO for these threads....

Most researchers? From what I have been reading it seems that researchers are still divided... I suspect as time goes on things will be resolved....

[Richard Sherwin]

One of the networks had a article about it a couple of weeks ago that indicated that the disease is being recognized by most as real now. Of course if you want to believe it's demon possession be my guest (Bee keeper has bad jokes this morning, needs more coffee) But you are right as time goes on it will be resolved, along with restless leg syndrome, CCD and the price of tea in China.

Most researchers? From what I have been reading it seems that researchers are still divided... I suspect as time goes on things will be resolved....