An Unauthorized History Of 3abn, Continues Options

[Richard Sherwin]

A little gas on the fire. <sigh>

Strange terminology for a male to use. I've only ever heard females say "Oh for pity's sake" but then, Ian may be that way inclined?

[PeacefulBe]

To my recollection an individual donor from TN provided 3ABN with the money for the purchase of the church building specifically for the purpose of housing the Thompsonville (3ABN) SDA church. That, to my recollection, was the reason he provided the money to buy the building. I don't recall that he ever placed a rent caveat in the deal. He simply purchased the church through 3ABN so the the "Thompsonville" congregation would have a church building in which to meet. Prior to that, we were meeting in the studio each Sabbath. As I recall, our congregation was not recognized by the conference until after we had the new building. Then we were a "company" for a number of years. At some point we became a church, but I dont remember when. Over time, the memory becomes fuzzy on so many details.

Later a lady donated a large sum of money to purchase land and construct a santuary museum for 3ABN. The land was purchased, the building was constructed, and then it was turned into the new church. I am not sure what happened to the sanctuary museum idea, but to my knowledge it went away. I do know that Ted Tessner donated a Sanctuary set for the new museum, and then it was returned to him and I think it was donated to Oklahoma Academy.

In any case, I visited the Thompsonville (3ABN) church (my home church) this last weekend and was privileged to shake hands with and hug so many wonderful people who I have not seen in a long time, people who I miss, love, and appreciate. I went to Sabbath School with my precious babies and ended up having a couple of their friends spending their weekend with us during this visit. Regardless of the water that has passed under the bridge, I have many friends and people who I love and miss in the Thompsonville church today.

Pastor Jean Fiscalini and Kris are also a couple of wonderful people who I hold close to my heart. I have known Kris since college at Weimar. LOL! The stories that could be told! We were friends before either of us knew about 3ABN. (Please Kris! Don't tell them about the apple toilet or the carrot ballet dancer!) There are many people who could say many things regarding this story, but life is short and precious, and priorities are paramount. I sincerely hope and pray to our Creator that each party in this horrendous mess finds true happiness and peace at some point. I have moved on, built a new life, a new career, found a place where I have a wall of protection around me, and have become a very happy man. I pray the Creator for peace and happiness for each person involved in this mess. Each one is a human child of our divine father, and is, therefore, my sibling in his family. Danny, Linda, Kris, Sister, Jean, Ian, Appletree, and everyone else in the saga are my family, and I love you. You are my fellow children of our great Creator. I know most of you on a very personal level and value you.

Your fellow cub in the family of the Father of our souls.

What a pleasure it was to read this, to hear the love in your heart and to be able to celebrate with you the good news of your new life!

Beartrap, the spirit in this post is what we all need to study intently and adopt as our own! To see each player in this saga as they truly are, a fellow child of our Heavenly Father, and therefore of such value that God's Son has gone to incredible lengths to offer each one of us eternal life.

[Pickle]

Strange terminology for a male to use. I've only ever heard females say "Oh for pity's sake" but then, Ian may be that way inclined?

I'm fairly certain Ian is a woman, not a man.

[Pickle]

One other comment: Congregations can elect whom they want as Elders (or any other officer). They can assign whatever duties to that person, or no duties at all. All is allowed.

Our churches do have a responsibility to comply with 1 Tim. 3:2-7 and Titus 1:6-9

[lurker]

I'm fairly certain Ian is a woman, not a man.

Since Ian is Scottish for the name John I also felt certain that he is a he and I thought he was using that name deliberately.

[sister]

The above is NOT an unusual situation.

I have pastored congregations (plural) where thebuilding was not owned by the congregation. That still happens today. It is becomming more common for a congregation to pay part, or all, of a pastor's salary. It is not against NAD policy for such to be the case.
Of course such a situation may have problems , but so do all other types sof ownership and pay.

One other comment: Congregations can elect whom they want as Elders (or any other officer). They can assign whatever duties to that person, or no duties at all. All is allowed.

The Thompsonville congregation was well within its authority to elect Danny as Elder and to give him no duties, if they chose to do so.

Some will argue that the congregation should not have elected him as Elder. But, that is a different issue. One point on which SDA conservatives and liberals agree is that the local congregation should have the power to elect whomever they wish to positions of leadership without the interference of higher denominational administrators.

Local congregations may even place people in positions of leadership who are not members of the SDA church, as has been done at times, as I am personally aware of.

In recent times a move toward a Congregationalist centered structure, with the majority of tithe and the ability to make decisions based solely upon the whims of the local congregation, regardless if it is in accordance with the recognized standards of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, has arisen. I recognized that much of standard of behavior of the local congregations Observer has presented as examples of what he has experienced, are illustrations of this phenomena.

According to Observer:

“Local congregations may even place people in positions of leadership who are not members of the SDA church, as has been done at times, as I am personally aware of.”

According to the Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual, Revised 2000 16th Edition:

Membership Required for Election

Seventh-day Adventist church members in regular standing are eligible for election to leadership positions in the local church where they hold membership. (See pp. 144, 146.) Exceptions may be made for the following:

1. Students who are members in regular standing but who, for purposed of education, live away from their normal home and regularly attend a church in the area of their temporary residence.
2. A conference/mission/field employee assigned by the conference/mission/field as a pastor/leader for two or more congregations. (See pl 137.)
3. A local elder who, when necessary and with the recommendation of the conference/mission/field committee, may be elected to serve in more than one church.

Other exceptions may be considered by the conference/mission/field committee.

The local church does not have the authority to place individuals who are not members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in any leadership position. All the examples cited above are of SDA members, in good standing, whose membership resides in a congregation other than that which they currently attend. The example Observer has given for this situation are churches that have functioned outside of the recognized and accepted standards for Seventh-day Adventist Churches. Of course we can all cite examples of local SDA congregations that have chosen to place themselves above the accepted standard for SDA churches as outlined in the Church Manual, but does that make it a desirable situation?

Observer also states:

"One other comment: Congregations can elect whom they want as Elders (or any other officer). They can assign whatever duties to that person, or no duties at all. All is allowed."

All may be allowed, but is it beneficial to the functioning of the Church? What is the purpose of electing an Honorary Elder or any other church officer that has no duties to perform and only a title? Is it merely to give honor and glory to a man? As a Christian it is to God alone to whom I give honor and glory. Christ has given the command not to be respecters of persons, all are called to be one in Christ Jesus, equal in grace as children of God and equally called for service in His church. Based upon Biblical principle there is no place for honorary or non-functioning positions in the church of God.

We may not all agree regarding the authority of the local congregation and the wisdom of adhering to the principles outlined in the Church Manual of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, but we should all be able to agree that Christ called each one of us to service as members of His church, if we profess to be his followers.

Sister

[PeacefulBe]

Strange terminology for a male to use. I've only ever heard females say "Oh for pity's sake" but then, Ian may be that way inclined?

LOL, Ozzie! Perhaps it is, as Johann so aptly pointed out earlier in this thread, simply the cultural differences between the usage in the U.S. and how it is used in Australia. My grandmother used it a lot and my father used it some.

[PeacefulBe]

Since Ian is Scottish for the name John I also felt certain that he is a he and I thought he was using that name deliberately.

You're correct lurker!

Ian(Eoin) = John in Scottish Gaelic
Sean = John in Irish
Jean = John in French
Johannes = John in Norwegian

And all of them mean "Yahweh is gracious"

[awesumtenor]

You're correct lurker!

Ian(Eoin) = John in Scottish Gaelic
Sean = John in Irish
Jean = John in French
Johannes = John in Norwegian

And all of them mean "Yahweh is gracious"

Jean is James in French; Jacques is John ( which is why many people named John are called Jack... since 1066 at any rate ... and why "frere jacques frere jacques, dormez-vous?" translates to "Are you sleeping Brother John"... )

In His service,
Mr. J

[Seraphim7]

Strange terminology for a male to use. I've only ever heard females say "Oh for pity's sake" but then, Ian may be that way inclined?

We have had a few instances where people, in the same household, have logged on as one of the other people in the household, or failed to log off under that persons nick, and made a comment or a few. Whether in error, or not, it can/has happened in the past

I'm fairly certain Ian is a woman, not a man.

Well anything is possible.

[Dona]

Strange terminology for a male to use. I've only ever heard females say "Oh for pity's sake" but then, Ian may be that way inclined?

Oh for pity's sake.

[sister]

I'm fairly certain Ian is a woman, not a man.

The same source that correctly identified FHB as Greg, the son of Walt Thompson, has shared the information that Ian is in fact Cindy, also known as Alethia and various other cyber incarnations. The reason her writing appear to be that of a woman, rather than a man, is because she is in fact a woman.

If you remember when Cinda/Alethia arrived at BSDA she claimed not to know any of the principles involved, nor to have visited 3ABN, but had come as a seeker of truth. In her incarnation as Ian she claims to have intimate knowlege of the ongoings at 3ABN. Interesting....I wonder who will be the next incarnation? Will Bystander return from the vastness of Cyberspace?

[PeacefulBe]

Jean is James in French; Jacques is John ( which is why many people named John are called Jack... since 1066 at any rate ... and why "frere jacques frere jacques, dormez-vous?" translates to "Are you sleeping Brother John"... )

In His service,
Mr. J

Actually, the translation of that wonderful song goes "Brother Jacob, Brother Jacob, are you sleeping? Are you sleeping?" Pehaps when it was translated into English the song flowed more smoothly with John substituted for Jacob. Just a thought.

Having experienced in my younger years often being endearingly called Little John or Jean (in the male French pronunciation), I'm not sure if my father was trying to instill a sense of gender conflict but I did know both the song and that Jean was French for John from an early age. When I reached an age where it began to bother me that my father would call his oldest daughter the male form of her name, I spoke up and he relented.

While I studied the French language for six years during my education, I only used it in real life for part of a year. Knowing that you are quite fluent in it, I went back to the internet to double check my research.

What I found:

Jacques = French form of Jacob and James, both meaning supplanter

Jean = Modern form of Old French Jehan, meaning God is gracious

Jeannot = Pet form of French Jean, meaning God is gracious

Jeanette = Pet form of French Jeanne, meaning God is gracious

[awesumtenor]

Actually, the translation of that wonderful song goes "Brother Jacob, Brother Jacob, are you sleeping? Are you sleeping?" Pehaps when it was translated into English the song flowed more smoothly with John substituted for Jacob. Just a thought.

Having experienced in my younger years often being endearingly called Little John or Jean (in the male French pronunciation), I'm not sure if my father was trying to instill a sense of gender conflict but I did know both the song and that Jean was French for John from an early age. When I reached an age where it began to bother me that my father would call his oldest daughter the male form of her name, I spoke up and he relented.

While I studied the French language for six years during my education, I only used it in real life for part of a year. Knowing that you are quite fluent in it, I went back to the internet to double check my research.

What I found:

Jacques = French form of Jacob and James, both meaning supplanter

Jean = Modern form of Old French Jehan, meaning God is gracious

Jeannot = Pet form of French Jean, meaning God is gracious

Jeanette = Pet form of French Jeanne, meaning God is gracious

Madame Rousseau, Monsieur Moss and Monsieur Seiffert, my french teachers... two of whom were French nationals, BTW... would beg to differ... regardless of what you found...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Seraphim7]

Actually,...