Danny Shelton Marries....again, 3abn Options

[summertime]

Oh tragic indeed, Summertime,
I think the reason I continue to mention the 'Biblical ' divorce is for that very reason. I just can't picture God placing a person in such a prison in the name of the law of divorce. Not only do we wait for someone ELSE to sin, we find ways to tract them to see if they are sinning. We nudge them so they want to sin, etc. so that we might be free.
No. I was referring to the counsellor egging Danny on...like they did to me when I was having my 'rough' time in the dark days. No words of encouragement. I'm not hearing anything about waiting and praying. I'm hearing...I told her to stop and she didn't and that's it...she's out! Now there may be more...I am the first to say I don't know. but a few months of problems and the marriage is over. There are those of us who have lived for years in situations less to our liking and lived to see the light at the other side. It is to those courageous ones that I think we should mention.
But like Danny and Linda we MUST move on. He can't go back. I can't go back. None of us can go back. How different life would be if we could. Just seven days as in the TV show! But. we are on a relentlessly moving linear conveyer belt. The same belt that Danny and Linda are on, as well.

Yes, Prisca, and the funny thing about all this is that the Bible (at least the Laws of Moses) would make it impossible for Linda to ever go back to Danny now, even if both of them wanted it. Unless I am wrong, and I speak off of my memory and the text is not before me right now, I believe that if one is divorced and the other mate remarries then if the first marriage reconciliation were possible, then they both would be committing adultry again. I knew some poor lady (not so poor in riches) who had divorced her husband and remarried before she joined the SDA church. Later her second husband died and her children decided that they would like to see their parents reunited. So they were remarried. Some people in the church criticized her and said that she was an adultrous---by then she was 83 years old. I am still trying to figure that one out. What say you? (shades of Bill O'Reilly) Sometimes I wonder (and I have no right to do this, I know) if a pretty young one was waiting around for a good reason to be thought up that would make Linda look guilty in the face of 3ABN donors, and then, suddenly the remarriage right is apparent. I smell a 'right' invented to make a wrong appear 'lawful'.

This post has been edited by summertime: May 1 2006, 04:48 PM

[AmeliaLD]

I would have told that 80+ lady , you go girl and ignore those name callers. What ever happend to judge not lest ye be judged?

[beartrap]

In tightly controlled, closed societies ruled by a royal family, or the equivalent thereof, the governing standards generally vary categorically according to personal status accorded by those who rule. Those held in high regard are often publicly lauded for engaging in the very actions that will result in capital punishment for one of lower status, or one who is out of favour.

Amongst many royal families affairs take place, pregnancies are effected out of wedlock, families are wantonly destroyed, actions are taken to cover the family indiscretions, or canonize them as personal strength in seeking sexual gratification in the face of "infidelities" concocted against spouses, and any who would question the veracity of the royals in their layering of standards is labeled under treason against God and country.

So it goes, and so it goes, and sometimes it seems like no one knows.

[PaperTigers]

Interesting thoughts BearTrap, it's amazing how there are different rules that apply to you according to your status....

[Woof]

Here are some thoughts before I answer your replies. I am not any of the people you suggested. I’m just someone who has been reading your comments and wanted to add a different perspective. It’s one that I’ve gained by talking to people directly involved with this issue. I do not say I would support Danny in anything he may do. I am talking about this issue alone. You and I may disagree on this subject, but on the next one we may agree.

I guess that readers of this thread fall into one of three categories. They are against Danny, they are against Linda, or they don’t exactly know what to think and they have open minds. I am not posting hoping that I will change the minds of those who have made it clear that they are anti Danny and want to run him out of 3ABN (although it would be nice if it did happen to at least a few). I am posting to give another viewpoint to those who haven’t decided which side they fall on yet. In other words, something to consider as they decide.

I’ll make this as short as I can, but there is a lot to say. I’ll break up my answers over several posts to try to make it easier to read.

*****You cannot "trace" phone calls per calling cards. It is known that when you use a store calling card - the origniating # shows differently each time you call the ending point. This is why calling cards are a method of use by thieves. If they were traced - they were not calls made by calling cards. So this is wrong (= a "hole").

I will provide the information supporting my comments when I have the time. But, there is one problem with your example: you say the numbers are different each time on the receiving end. The receiving end was the doctor’s phone. Danny didn’t have access to that phone. The originating end was Danny and Linda’s home phone. He did have access to that.

******The "hole" that the the "counselors" are telling everything that happend in "sessions" w/Linda - but are not speaking about Danny.

Who said they didn’t speak about Danny? He was not found to be the problem.

******What in your posting stated anything "Pro" Linda? Nothing - right...just like we are all "Neg" Danny? ....yeah - makes perfect sense....

You are right, I didn’t say anything pro Linda. In this circumstance I disagree with her actions. Maybe in another situation I will agree.



******So far - since all I have been hearing is the sordid "truth" about Linda - I like hearing the perspective of the "truth" about Danny....

How do you know it is the truth about Danny?

******Thank you for sharing the "official" version.... as we say here, "This ain't sabbath school, we pay attention...."

I have no idea what the “official” version is, but I am glad to see that you pay attention! I had hoped you would.

******As far as 3ABN, how do you know that God has not prompted us to speak out against some of the foolishness we have observed? How do you know that we aren't a part of God' fixing it?

Because you are not using the biblical model of how to handle this. If you have something against your brother go and tell him first. If you are unhappy with his response take church members on the next visit. I am unaware of any text in the Bible that tells us to use gossip and innuendo to do God’s work.

******"hole"=Where are the phone records that prove the "ongoing" calls were of a sexual relationship? Where are the transcripts of the phonecalls that speak to the "spiritual adultery" taking place in the conversation/relationship?

There is a difference between phone calls being of a sexual relationship and those of a romantic relationship. I don’t know whether they were sexual or romantic, but I wonder: Would you be happy if your spouse was on the phone for hours in romantic conversation with someone other than you? Would it be okay as long as they didn’t talk about sex? They just discussed how much they care for each other and they can’t wait to see each other again. Would that be okay with you?

******"hole"=Why didn't Danny go with Linda when she was seeking treatment for her son? Most married couples tend to go with the other one that is getting "medical attention"...unless of course they don't care about their spouse in the first place...

You’ll have to ask Danny or Linda that one. I have no idea.


******"hole"=Why isn't the Doctor trying to "clear" his name since he too is as "bad/evil" as Linda?

You’ll have to ask the doctor. I do know, though, that a group of people from Europe or Scandinavia have been quite vocal about his side, as has been happening about Linda in America. Why he isn’t saying much is an answer for him to give.

******"hole"=If you discuss what you "heard" from a "main character" ("neither Danny or Linda") is it not the "innuendo, gossip and speculation" that you too speak of?

No. The source is someone who participated and therefore knows first hand what was said and done. They are not passing along information that they heard from someone who heard from someone.

******Frankly I take issue with the back handed methods used by the parties who can speak out. This whole situation has been handled by those righteous bro/sis's who on the one hand don't want Sis. Linda speaking her side of the issue, yet they can make any kind of accusation about her and the situation that they do not have first hand knowledge of.

There are plenty of people on Linda’s side speaking out. This thread up to this point has had a lot of them. The only information that I know for sure that is directly from Linda is her web site.

******In addition, the reason this is a subject we should and will continue to discuss is the fact that letter after letter has gone out to various churches, including our own, asking that members continue to support the 3ABN "ministry", when there are some obvious issues with the integrity of the leadership that should be addressed. IF this is a "ministry" as is thet claim, then folk need to stop slinging mud, speak the truth and take the gag off Sis. Linda too.

So, it says in the Bible that these are the circumstances that make innuendo and gossip okay? Help us out by giving the passage so we can all memorize it.



******If, folk think they are getting away with something playing these games they better think again. The same Jesus that could see Nathaneal in Jhn 1:45-48 and, the same Jesus who knew the deeds of the woman at the well... you remember the sister who had five husbands in Jhn 4:18, is still able to see what we have done. He does not have to be there, like we would have to be, in order to know exactly what has been said and done. If these folks truly feared God they would be real careful about slinging mud and seeming to be more concerned about how much money they will lose due to the bad publicity. Folk better start doing unto others as they would have them do unto them, cuz when this stuff really hits the fan they're gonna end up blown into the lake-o-fire.

I agree with you. We are on the same side. The Linda supporters who are doing this should take your comments to heart. Wait a minute….you were talking about Danny’s supporters, weren’t you? Your comments should apply to both sides.

******In your post you mentioned the truth so I think you should be aware that this statement is not true. God did not put Danny in charge of anything.

How do you know my statement isn’t true and yours is?

******Incidentally, why do you think that 3ABN or any other religious entiry has a mandate to help God fix the world? I thought you believed in the maxim that "If God doesn’t like it He will fix it," or is that only when one of your boys is on the radar screen

I have not said ministries are to help God fix the world. They are to take the word of God to the world and introduce people to the salvation He offers. Then the fix, if there becomes one, is something that comes from God.

******He is indeed the enemy... and some of his most successful minions wear the appellation of "church member". Fighting satan includes standing up for those who are in a position where they cannot speak for themselves

A noble activity, certainly. It is advisable to be sure that, when you stick up for those who can’t stick up for themselves, that you are sure that your source’s information is correct.

[Hersheys99]

I will provide the information supporting my comments when I have the time. But, there is one problem with your example: you say the numbers are different each time on the receiving end. The receiving end was the doctor’s phone. Danny didn’t have access to that phone. The originating end was Danny and Linda’s home phone. He did have access to that.

Sorry but as long as you use a phone call I don't care where you place the call from it is NOT TRACEABLE!! I Know cause I have used phone cards before from my home phone when I didn't want it to show up on my phone bill. Unless they are tapping the phone there is NO WAY they would know where the call was placed too period!!

[Panama_Pete]

In tightly controlled, closed societies ruled by a royal family, or the equivalent thereof, the governing standards generally vary categorically according to personal status accorded by those who rule. Those held in high regard are often publicly lauded for engaging in the very actions that will result in capital punishment for one of lower status, or one who is out of favour.

Amongst many royal families affairs take place, pregnancies are effected out of wedlock, families are wantonly destroyed, actions are taken to cover the family indiscretions, or canonize them as personal strength in seeking sexual gratification in the face of "infidelities" concocted against spouses, and any who would question the veracity of the royals in their layering of standards is labeled under treason against God and country..

Yes, it's true, those founding fathers, or royals, who ruled were held in high regard while ingaging in the very actions that resulted in punishment for ones of lower status.



This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: May 2 2006, 04:14 AM

[Woof]

******... it also includes testing the spirits to see if they be of God... if what you and other 3ABN/Danny Shelton apologists say is, in fact, true then you should have no problem with any examination of said truth... after all, did not Ellen White say in R&H article of Dec. 20, 1892 "We are living in perilous times, and it does not become us to accept everything claimed to be truth without examining it thoroughly..." and in the same article she stated "Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair." If truth can afford to be fair, what does that say for what many people who have no personal stake in how things come out to observe that there is an obvious and patent unfairness in how this has been dealt with. The truth doesn't run from the light of inquiry like roaches under a cabinet; it welcomes it because it knows vindication lies at the end of said inquiry...and it definitely does not send armies of apologists and spinmeisters out to defend it's turf.

I agree. What you describe speaks perfectly to what I am discussing. Now rather than use gossip and innuendo, follow through and use the biblical model to put it all to rest. If what you say is the truth, of course. Otherwise I can see that it would be dangerous for your side to use the biblical model.

******The problem you and others keep trying to gloss over is the fact that an examination of the things presented as "truth"...(things presented unsolicited, BTW; Danny Shelton could have handled this quietly, had Linda resign or retire without fanfare if he felt it came to that and no one would have been the wiser;

Do you know for sure that it wasn’t offered to her?

******but that doesn't show that he has juice...by feeling a need to flex and throw down the gauntlet and then compounding that by trying to explain it away to people who didn't ask to know his business like that...) had "holes" in them... and when stacked up... all of the actions and the statements, they didn't line up.

I make no claim to know anything about Danny and whether he is trying to show that he has juice. I believe that there was a lack of knowledge of some of this information so I have provided it.


******Danny put Danny in charge of 3ABN. His hand selected board of directors keeps him there. God sat this one out a long time ago.

And your source for this information is….?
******I have seen good spin doctoring and I know a mouthpiece when I see one...this takes the cake. From "contact" to "personal relationship" with not a shred of evidence...
I have given more evidence than anyone else I’ve read here. Where do you get your information?

******For a moment I thought this was someone playing Devil's Advocate...Now I am sure advocacy has nothing to do with it. What clicnhed it was the clear false witness testimony about what God did and what he will do...
Call me a mouthpiece if you will. I decide for myself where I stand on issues. No, I am not playing devil’s advocate. I do believe what I have written. I have seen nothing in this thread, or in any other, that convince me my eye witness lied to me. Tell me, please, what is your source that proves mine is “clear false witness testimony about what God did and what he will do….”?

[Johann]

*****You cannot "trace" phone calls per calling cards. It is known that when you use a store calling card - the origniating # shows differently each time you call the ending point. This is why calling cards are a method of use by thieves. If they were traced - they were not calls made by calling cards. So this is wrong (= a "hole").

I will provide the information supporting my comments when I have the time. But, there is one problem with your example: you say the numbers are different each time on the receiving end. The receiving end was the doctor’s phone. Danny didn’t have access to that phone. The originating end was Danny and Linda’s home phone. He did have access to that.

- - -.

On at least two occasions Danny Shelton grabbed the phone from Linda while she was talking to me and my wife where the conversation was carried on our phone and not the doctor's. My wife and I went through the whole ordeal together with Linda and also the physician. And DAnny was involved too, since I received about 60 e-mails from his during the critical period.

Linda brought Nathan to our place to meet the physician who was visiting us at the time. Therefore I know that much of what is presented by Danny and his assciates is merely unfounded assumptions.

Most of what you present in your letter is also based on those assumptions that Danny Shelton and his associates use to protect him, claiming that they are thereby on God's side, since 3ABN proclaims the "truth"!

Blessings,

Johann Thorvaldsson, retired pastor, missionary, Bible teacher. . .
Working in my retirement for 3ABN until Danny fired me for refusing to bear false witness . . . He thought he could get me to do that too. The official reason for firing me was that I had refused to obey orders from my superior. I had to choose between obeying God and man.

[Panama_Pete]

I will provide the information supporting my comments when I have the time. But, there is one problem with your example: you say the numbers are different each time on the receiving end. The receiving end was the doctor’s phone. Danny didn’t have access to that phone. The originating end was Danny and Linda’s home phone. He did have access to that.

You say, "The receiving end was the doctor's phone."

If Nathan, Linda's son, was at the Norwegian doctor's clinic, and we know he was, how do you know who was actually on the Norwegian end of the telephone connection?

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: May 2 2006, 04:16 AM

[awesumtenor]

******... it also includes testing the spirits to see if they be of God... if what you and other 3ABN/Danny Shelton apologists say is, in fact, true then you should have no problem with any examination of said truth... after all, did not Ellen White say in R&H article of Dec. 20, 1892 "We are living in perilous times, and it does not become us to accept everything claimed to be truth without examining it thoroughly..." and in the same article she stated "Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair." If truth can afford to be fair, what does that say for what many people who have no personal stake in how things come out to observe that there is an obvious and patent unfairness in how this has been dealt with. The truth doesn't run from the light of inquiry like roaches under a cabinet; it welcomes it because it knows vindication lies at the end of said inquiry...and it definitely does not send armies of apologists and spinmeisters out to defend it's turf.

I agree. What you describe speaks perfectly to what I am discussing. Now rather than use gossip and innuendo, follow through and use the biblical model to put it all to rest. If what you say is the truth, of course. Otherwise I can see that it would be dangerous for your side to use the biblical model.

For the record I don't have a side. That said, I recognize spite when it is manifest... and I am not the only uninvolved onlooker to see that the actions of Danny and the 3ABN board have been inherently spiteful toward Linda. If she has been silenced by the severance agreement with 3ABN, which stipulates that she can make no statements about either Danny or the network that put them in a disparaging light, then what, exactly is being served by continuing to attack her?

You are spreading 'gossip and innuendo' yourself; physician, heal thyself. By your own admission your information is not based on your being eyewitness to it but because someone told you and you have chosen to believe that person. As was mentioned to you before... "do as I say, not as I do" may fly where you are from... but it wont work here.

******The problem you and others keep trying to gloss over is the fact that an examination of the things presented as "truth"...(things presented unsolicited, BTW; Danny Shelton could have handled this quietly, had Linda resign or retire without fanfare if he felt it came to that and no one would have been the wiser;

Do you know for sure that it wasn’t offered to her?

I don't... what I do know is that since this went public, the shelton spin machine has done it's best to make sure the only side of this that is heard is his side... and since this came out, his public statements, allusions and actions with regard to his now former wife have been anathema to the Christ he professes. That says to me while it is possible he may have made that offer, it is not highly probable.

******but that doesn't show that he has juice...by feeling a need to flex and throw down the gauntlet and then compounding that by trying to explain it away to people who didn't ask to know his business like that...) had "holes" in them... and when stacked up... all of the actions and the statements, they didn't line up.

I make no claim to know anything about Danny and whether he is trying to show that he has juice. I believe that there was a lack of knowledge of some of this information so I have provided it.

You get no argument that there is a lack of knowledge... largely due to statements being made (by the only side making adversarial statements) that are inconsistent with actions... but your chiding people to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain is not helping to diminish said lack. The story given by those you are defending has been weighed in the balance and is found lacking. At best that version lacks credibility and fosters far more questions than it resolves.

******Danny put Danny in charge of 3ABN. His hand selected board of directors keeps him there. God sat this one out a long time ago.

And your source for this information is….?

Common sense, powers of observation and a functioning brain.

In His service,
Mr. J

[beartrap]

How amusingly ironic. People who have had no connection to this mess in any way other than third and fourth hand information, seem to be most eager to jump in and make conclusive statements. They quickly try to discredit the preponderance of evidence produced in the word of those of us who are involved first hand as rumour and innuendo. This from people who know nothing from first hand experience and witness in this situation, as Johann, Sister, Paper tigers, Brother Sam, and others of us do.

This post has been edited by beartrap: May 2 2006, 01:29 AM

[Clay]

Woof,
The official version is what you have posted.... you have admitted that you heard it from a source.... so who is more credible, those who have actually worked at 3abn and are reporting what they saw, or a person who by their own admission got their info from a "source?"

Are you saying Woof that you worked at 3abn? If not we should put stock in your perspective because?

[Brother Sam]

We see the written rhetoric in favor of Danny - it hasn't been to many years ago we also heard how great another so called religious person was. But reports kept coming from those who left the organization of the abuse of this god leader. Religious and public leaders praised him.

Do we not learn anything from the past?

Did those who praised this manic, Jim Jones, and didn't demand accountable have blood on their hands?

Think about it!

[awesumtenor]

******"hole"=If you discuss what you "heard" from a "main character" ("neither Danny or Linda") is it not the "innuendo, gossip and speculation" that you too speak of?

No. The source is someone who participated and therefore knows first hand what was said and done. They are not passing along information that they heard from someone who heard from someone.

Why did this person need to pass this on to you, someone who was not significant enough to have any involvement such that you witnessed the things spoken of yourself? How exactly is that different from the things being spoken of here by persons who have been involved and who have actually witnessed things with their own eyes rather that receiving them second or third hand?

Everything you claim is based on what you were told, not on what you have seen... by your own admission.

Those telling a different version are saying what they have seen, heard and experienced first hand.

Yet you expect people to take your version of things as gospel with no substantiation or verification...

Dude... I may have been born at night... but it wasn't last night.

You are putting what you heard from someone but never saw yourself against the statements of multiple eyewitnesses and you think if you call what they say gossip and innuendo enough times folk will start believing it?

To quote the immortal Dick Dastardly... wake up Muttley; you're dreaming again.

In His service,
Mr. J