3abn To Summarize...., what is the crime? Options

[Clay]

If all you say is true... then in the words of Dolly Parton, "its time to tinkle or get off the potty..." If there are beans to spill, then they should have been spilled some time ago... if it is that significant then violate the gag order..... otherwise a reasonable person could assume that there is nothing except talk.... nothing provable....

So I will take your word (or collective words) that there is more, however, in my mind, its time to put up or shut up.... btjm...

[watchbird]

No one really cared about the Roberts divorce, and they continued to be on the air.... outside of adventism, North American adventism to be sure, who really cares? Linda could write a book, but would it really make an impact outside of the NAD?

Remember eventually the public perception of Oral Roberts was that he was a little off, especially with the "God will kill me if I don't raise 3 million dollars" plea.....

So IMO, while what happened at 3ABN is questionable or even scandalous, it is only scandalous to us..... Being a controlling, manipulative, serial polygamist with your own t.v. show is not a crime...

It may not be a crime in the eyes of those who exalt those vices as virtues. And it may not be a crime even in the eyes of the law of the nation. But it is a crime in the eyes of God. That should be enough for us to willingly do our part, however small or ineffective that may seem to us.

As far as to whether North American Adventism is the only one who cares: if we had ears into the inner offices of other Divisions around the world, we would find that not only do others care, but that they care enough to take actions in their Divisions to curtail the activities of 3ABN and its increasingly growing system of affiliates in their territories.

There are those who care. BSDA can help increase their number if it chooses.

Of tiny strands are the strongest cables constructed.

[watchbird]

If all you say is true... then in the words of Dolly Parton, "its time to tinkle or get off the potty..." If there are beans to spill, then they should have been spilled some time ago... if it is that significant then violate the gag order..... otherwise a reasonable person could assume that there is nothing except talk.... nothing provable....

So I will take your word (or collective words) that there is more, however, in my mind, its time to put up or shut up.... btjm...

Ah, Clay, surely "you know not what you ask".

Be content to let the beans be served one portion at a time.

Let God direct the pace and the timing. It is not for us to know the times or the seasons or the details of what must come to pass before He executes judgement. Let us each just be content to do what we can so that when judgment comes people will be prepared to see that it is God's hand that is moving. Many, very many, are not to that place yet. If God were to act tomorrow, many would mourn the loss of a "man of God" rather than rejoice that an enemy of God had been destroyed, the oppressed been set free, and the righteous vindicated.

[calvin]

If you really think that there is "not much more", then either you have not been paying attention or those who have been posting have been filtering their facts a little too carefully.
Let's see now. Danny has a jet, horses, and big yelloo house. As for the Linda gag order, this is a routine business practice for fired executives, in return for a payout severance package, no story there, and this is old news anyway. All the other stuff can be dismissed as sour grapes by a few ex-employees.
If "most Adventists don't care" it means they don't know enough. Fortunately, some on BSDA care enough to inform them, and hopefully BSDA cares enough to keep on being a conduit and a record of that information.
No, people have much more important things going on in their lives. Look, people are not unsympathetic to Linda, but that does mean they are anti-Danny or wish the demise of 3ABN
If BSDA doesn't provide the medium of communication and record, who will?
sdanet, Atoday, Club Adventist, we are not the only outlet.
If BSDA does provide the channel through which God can illuminate the darkness, BSDA can keep on filtering the information so innocent ones will be protected as much as is possible (for those who post here do care about such things).BSDA has allowed very open discussion of the events surarounding 3ABN, but we do have boundaries.
If (when) the public media gets involved, they will "care" also. But their "caring" will be in proportion to the dollars and circulation numbers the topic can bring to them. And in that world the more heinous the crime, the dirtier the action, the more they will care. And the more the innocent will be paraded before the eyes of the nation.

Would we really rather have it published in National Enquirer than on BSDA?
Not an issue, this story is not National Enquirer material.

[color=#FF6666]

[Guest_statrei_*]

The desire for sensationalism is causing everyone to lose sight of what is at stake here. Those who have been affected believe that any level of sensationalism demands attention. Those who are looking on believe that it becomes important when it is sensational enough to warrant coverage in the National Enquirer. All overlook the fact that this is not about Danny Shelton or the Adventist Church. Whether Danny survives this is only relevant to Danny. At the end we will still have the same deteriorating world conditions with no hope in sight because Christians continue to be self-centered in their perspective.

[LadyTenor]

The desire for sensationalism is causing everyone to lose sight of what is at stake here. Those who have been affected believe that any level of sensationalism demands attention. Those who are looking on believe that it becomes important when it is sensational enough to warrant coverage in the National Enquirer. All overlook the fact that this is not about Danny Shelton or the Adventist Church. Whether Danny survives this is only relevant to Danny. At the end we will still have the same deteriorating world conditions with no hope in sight because Christians continue to be self-centered in their perspective.

Exactly why these threads are tired...when Clay started this one, I didn't realize it would become yet another 3ABN thread, but it has...I will not be revisiting this thread...I will leave it where I left all the other 3ABN threads...in the trash...

...I'm sure someone will respond to my somewhat harsh response, but I regret that I won't see it, since this is my last time looking at ANY 3ABN thread on this site...there are more interesting threads to follow up on...

[Clay]

Exactly why these threads are tired...when Clay started this one, I didn't realize it would become yet another 3ABN thread, but it has...I will not be revisiting this thread...I will leave it where I left all the other 3ABN threads...in the trash...

Well neither did I LT.... I summarized the issue as I saw it and I still it that way..... if people have stories to tell then tell it. Tell it all, and let the chips fall where they may....

I do not believe for a moment that bsda is the only outlet for this info, but the one that has been chosen for the moment.... websites are started all the time, and one could be started specifically to deal with the miasma that seems to be 3ABN...

As I mentioned earlier.... "tinkle or get off the potty...."

[Guest_statrei_*]

Miasma! Now, there's a fifty-cent word.

[awesumtenor]

No one really cared about the Roberts divorce, and they continued to be on the air.... outside of adventism, North American adventism to be sure, who really cares? Linda could write a book, but would it really make an impact outside of the NAD?

Fiscally, the NAD *is* Adventism; more specifically than that, the Unions and Conferences in the lower 48 states "tote the note" for the worldwide church. If the remitted tithe from the NAD were to go away, this church would cease to exist as a world-wide Christian missionary organization, post-haste. More than 80% of tithe received by the church comes from the NAD. So even if no one outside the NAD cares, if it matters to enough people in the NAD, it matters because it affects the money.

In slightly smaller scale, the same dynamic applies to 3ABN. It's prime constituency is middle aged to elderly caucasian Adventists in the NAD, primarily in the continental US. The history lesson of PTL should not be lost on it; when the extent of the scandal became public, that ministry ceased to be because their core donors, which were the same demographic as 3ABN's, stopped donating and no amount of damage control and changes in management and policy were able to reverse that trend once it started.

This is what they are trying to prevent at 3ABN, even while continuing with the same or very similar excesses that plagued PTL.

Remember eventually the public perception of Oral Roberts was that he was a little off, especially with the "God will kill me if I don't raise 3 million dollars" plea.....

Remember Oral got that 3 million at the eleventh hour... so while some may have viewed him as "a little off"... he was a little off with 3 million dollars in his pocket.

So IMO, while what happened at 3ABN is questionable or even scandalous, it is only scandalous to us..... Being a controlling, manipulative, serial polygamist with your own t.v. show is not a crime...

No it is not... but the things one may do to keep one's actions from being common knowledge very well may be... ask Martha Stewart.

In His service,
Mr. J

[PrincessDrRe]

[princessdi]

Aaaaahhhh, but Fearless Leader you have over looked that charges of inappropriation of funds, jet planes, huge houses, lavish lifestyles, abused employees, from those who have personally seen and heard(ncluding docs)and the fact that the media will have a good time just rying to sort it all out. They have investigated some for a lot less........ask Benny Hinn. We(Adventist) might want to minimze it because it is distasteful to us, and thing slike this just don't happen in our world. But I keep thinking about how it took less than a week to spread a rumor about Pastor Walker which was not true, by emial no less. The public has an appetite for this type of story for sure.

Reality check:

This is a story of a man with a TV ministry who divorced his wife and married another. Not much more. Most Adventist don’t care, neither will the media.

[Clay]

Aaaaahhhh, but Fearless Leader you have over looked that charges of inappropriation of funds, jet planes, huge houses, lavish lifestyles, abused employees, from those who have personally seen and heard(ncluding docs)and the fact that the media will have a good time just rying to sort it all out. They have investigated some for a lot less........ask Benny Hinn. We(Adventist) might want to minimze it because it is distasteful to us, and thing slike this just don't happen in our world. But I keep thinking about how it took less than a week to spread a rumor about Pastor Walker which was not true, by emial no less. The public has an appetite for this type of story for sure.

maybe, maybe not..... Hezekiah is a nationally known figure..... is 3ABN nationally known to the extent that people who don't normally follow what is happening with the adventist church will show interest? I don't think so....

I was talking with some of my co-workers about 3ABN and their response was 3ABN who?

[Guest_statrei_*]

maybe, maybe not..... Hezekiah is a nationally known figure..... is 3ABN nationally known to the extent that people who don't normally follow what is happening with the adventist church will show interest? I don't think so....

I was talking with some of my co-workers about 3ABN and their response was 3ABN who?

Adventists are having hard time appreciating that in the land of its birth and the most influential nation on earth, Adventism does not appear on the radar screen. Ten Commandments Day has come and gone and only in Adventist/3ABN circles was it a news item. It's over, including the shouting. We are yet to make the difference were we should. We have forgotten that true leaders always come from among the people. If you come with the message that you are superior to the people you can NEVER become their leader.

[watchbird]

maybe, maybe not..... Hezekiah is a nationally known figure..... is 3ABN nationally known to the extent that people who don't normally follow what is happening with the adventist church will show interest? I don't think so....

I was talking with some of my co-workers about 3ABN and their response was 3ABN who?

Adventists are having hard time appreciating that in the land of its birth and the most influential nation on earth, Adventism does not appear on the radar screen. Ten Commandments Day has come and gone and only in Adventist/3ABN circles was it a news item. It's over, including the shouting. We are yet to make the difference were we should. We have forgotten that true leaders always come from among the people. If you come with the message that you are superior to the people you can NEVER become their leader.

Sometimes it seems to me as though many of us live in a "time warp". That is, we are so absorbed in the future expected "time of touble" that we are afraid to join hands with our Christian neighbors in the present--even when they are singing our song. Fortunately that is not quite so true in all countries around the world.

[awesumtenor]

maybe, maybe not..... Hezekiah is a nationally known figure..... is 3ABN nationally known to the extent that people who don't normally follow what is happening with the adventist church will show interest? I don't think so....

I was talking with some of my co-workers about 3ABN and their response was 3ABN who?

Again, since 3ABN, like EWTN (the Catholic channel), is devoted to religious programming that targets the teaching of a specific denomination... it is a red herring to say is must not matter since people outside of the denomination it targets are not even aware of it's existence, much less the ongoing issues with it's management.

The question is does it matter to the target audience of the channel...and whether the problems, once known, detrimentally affect the denomination's attempts to evangelize utilizing the network as a tool to further said evangelism...

I would have to say the answers are 'yes'... and 'yes'... btjm.

In His service,
Mr. J