An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 5 (thread was closed then reopened) Options

[gracetoyou]

Yes, it's quite conservative. It does uphold traditional Seventh-day Adventist standards on morality.

[Clay]

Yes, it's quite conservative. It does uphold traditional Seventh-day Adventist standards on morality.

thank you....the question is should avenues be utilized to get the word out even if you don't subscribe to that school of thought?

This post has been edited by Clay: May 11 2006, 09:54 AM

[gracetoyou]

Why not? What difference does it make? Anyway, it is the conservative element of the church who believes that a person has to have Biblical grounds for divorce (adultery) to remarry. The liberal element would probably not care that Danny is divorced and remarried without Biblical grounds.

If Adventist Today or Spectrum published a reliable expose, I would still use it to inform people about the truth of the Shelton situation even though I am conservative in most areas of Adventist thought.

[Clay]

Why not? What difference does it make? Anyway, it is the conservative element of the church who believes that a person has to have Biblical grounds for divorce (adultery) to remarry. The liberal element would probably not care that Danny is divorced and remarried without Biblical grounds.

If Adventist Today or Spectrum published a reliable expose, I would still use it to inform people about the truth of the Shelton situation even though I am conservative in most areas of Adventist thought.

you have a point... thanks for sharing it....

[sonshineonme]

Why not? What difference does it make? Anyway, it is the conservative element of the church who believes that a person has to have Biblical grounds for divorce (adultery) to remarry. The liberal element would probably not care that Danny is divorced and remarried without Biblical grounds.

If Adventist Today or Spectrum published a reliable expose, I would still use it to inform people about the truth of the Shelton situation even though I am conservative in most areas of Adventist thought.

These sources mentioned along with other public sources are always at God's disposal - whether we see them as good ways or not is not what's important. His ways can be msyterious to us. That's what makes God God! And I love that.

[Guest_vonessa_*]

Sister, I've gotta tell you, you have one of the most creative ways of writing. Now that you've established that Danny digs up dirt, how about putting in specifics. Who, when, where, how, why? Right now yer washing clothes without the spines. Now instead of a drive-by writing, put some meat on those bones.

[Johann]

Sister, I've gotta tell you, you have one of the most creative ways of writing. Now that you've established that Danny digs up dirt, how about putting in specifics. Who, when, where, how, why? Right now yer washing clothes without the spines. Now instead of a drive-by writing, put some meat on those bones.

What more specifics do you want? Do you want a greater exposure?

[sister]

“Is Your Boss a Psychopath?”...

The following quiz, edited for length and application, appeared in issue 96 of Fast Company, a business magazine. Perhaps Johann, Beartrap, Brother Sam, PaperTigers and others would like to take the quiz and comment on it’s applicability to the history of 3ABN...

Quiz: Is Your Boss a Psychopath? The standard clinical test for psychopathy, Robert Hare's PCL-R, evaluates 20 personality traits overall, but a subset of eight traits defines what he calls the "corporate psychopath" -- the nonviolent person prone to the "selfish, callous, and remorseless use of others." Does your boss fit the profile? Here's our do-it-yourself quiz drawing on the test manual and Hare's book Without Conscience. (Disclaimer: If you're not a psychologist or psychiatrist, this will be a strictly amateur exercise.)

For each question, score two points for "yes," one point for "somewhat" or "maybe," and zero points for "no."

[1] Is he glib and superficially charming?
Is he a likable personality and a terrific talker — entertaining, persuasive, but maybe a bit too smooth and slick? Can he pass himself off as a supposed expert even though he really doesn't know much about the topic? Is he a flatterer? Seductive, but insincere? Does he tell amusing but unlikely anecdotes celebrating his own past? Can he persuade his colleagues to support a certain position this week — and then argue with equal conviction and persuasiveness for the opposite position next week? Can he appear on TV and somehow get away without saying anything truly substantive?
SCORE__

[2] Does he have a grandiose sense of self-worth?
Does he brag? Is he arrogant? Superior? Domineering? Does he feel he's above the rules that apply to "little people"? Does he act as though everything revolves around him? Does he downplay his legal, financial, or personal problems, say they're just temporary, or blame them on others?
SCORE__

[3] Is he a pathological liar?
Has he reinvented his own past in a more positive light? Does he lie habitually even though he can easily be found out? When he's exposed, does he still act unconcerned because he thinks he can weasel out of it? Does he enjoy lying? Is he proud of his knack for deceit? Is it hard to tell whether he knows he's a liar or whether he deceives himself and believes his own bull?
SCORE__

[4] Is he a con artist or master manipulator?
Does he use his skill at lying to cheat or manipulate other people in his quest for money, power, status, and sex? Does he "use" people brilliantly? Does he engage in dishonest schemes such as cooking the books?
SCORE__

[5] When he harms other people, does he feel a lack of remorse or guilt?
Is he concerned about himself rather than the wreckage he inflicts on others or society at large? Does he say he feels bad but act as though he really doesn't? Does he blame others for the trouble he causes?
SCORE__

[6] Does he have a shallow affect?
Does he make brief, dramatic displays of emotion that are nothing more than putting on a theatrical mask and playacting for effect?
SCORE__

[7] Is he callous and lacking in empathy?
Does he not give a d--- about the feelings or well-being of other people? Is he profoundly selfish? Does he cruelly mock others? Is he emotionally or verbally abusive toward employees, "friends," and family members? Can he fire employees without concern for how they'll get by without the job? Can he profit from embezzlement without concern for the harm he's doing?
SCORE__

[8] Does he fail to accept responsibility for his own actions?
Does he always cook up some excuse? Does he blame others for what he's done? If he's under investigation for a corporate crime, like deceitful accounting, does he refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing even when the hard evidence is stacked against him?
SCORE__

Total____

SCORING

If your boss scores:
1-4 | Be frustrated
5-7 | Be cautious
8-12 | Be afraid
13-16 | BE VERY AFRAID


Stayed tuned for "The Televangelist", Part 3...

This post has been edited by sister: May 11 2006, 01:24 PM

[awesumtenor]

“Is Your Boss a Psychopath?”...

The following quiz, edited for length and application, appeared in issue 96 of Fast Company, a business magazine. Perhaps Johann, Beartrap, Brother Sam, PaperTigers and others would like to take the quiz and comment on it’s applicability to the history of 3ABN...

Quiz: Is Your Boss a Psychopath? The standard clinical test for psychopathy, Robert Hare's PCL-R, evaluates 20 personality traits overall, but a subset of eight traits defines what he calls the "corporate psychopath" -- the nonviolent person prone to the "selfish, callous, and remorseless use of others." Does your boss fit the profile? Here's our do-it-yourself quiz drawing on the test manual and Hare's book Without Conscience. (Disclaimer: If you're not a psychologist or psychiatrist, this will be a strictly amateur exercise.)

For each question, score two points for "yes," one point for "somewhat" or "maybe," and zero points for "no."

[1] Is he glib and superficially charming?
Is he a likable personality and a terrific talker — entertaining, persuasive, but maybe a bit too smooth and slick? Can he pass himself off as a supposed expert even though he really doesn't know much about the topic? Is he a flatterer? Seductive, but insincere? Does he tell amusing but unlikely anecdotes celebrating his own past? Can he persuade his colleagues to support a certain position this week — and then argue with equal conviction and persuasiveness for the opposite position next week? Can he appear on TV and somehow get away without saying anything truly substantive?
SCORE__

[2] Does he have a grandiose sense of self-worth?
Does he brag? Is he arrogant? Superior? Domineering? Does he feel he's above the rules that apply to "little people"? Does he act as though everything revolves around him? Does he downplay his legal, financial, or personal problems, say they're just temporary, or blame them on others?
SCORE__

[3] Is he a pathological liar?
Has he reinvented his own past in a more positive light? Does he lie habitually even though he can easily be found out? When he's exposed, does he still act unconcerned because he thinks he can weasel out of it? Does he enjoy lying? Is he proud of his knack for deceit? Is it hard to tell whether he knows he's a liar or whether he deceives himself and believes his own bull?
SCORE__

[4] Is he a con artist or master manipulator?
Does he use his skill at lying to cheat or manipulate other people in his quest for money, power, status, and sex? Does he "use" people brilliantly? Does he engage in dishonest schemes such as cooking the books?
SCORE__

[5] When he harms other people, does he feel a lack of remorse or guilt?
Is he concerned about himself rather than the wreckage he inflicts on others or society at large? Does he say he feels bad but act as though he really doesn't? Does he blame others for the trouble he causes?
SCORE__

[6] Does he have a shallow affect?
Does he make brief, dramatic displays of emotion that are nothing more than putting on a theatrical mask and playacting for effect?
SCORE__

[7] Is he callous and lacking in empathy?
Does he not give a d--- about the feelings or well-being of other people? Is he profoundly selfish? Does he cruelly mock others? Is he emotionally or verbally abusive toward employees, "friends," and family members? Can he fire employees without concern for how they'll get by without the job? Can he profit from embezzlement without concern for the harm he's doing?
SCORE__

[8] Does he fail to accept responsibility for his own actions?
Does he always cook up some excuse? Does he blame others for what he's done? If he's under investigation for a corporate crime, like deceitful accounting, does he refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing even when the hard evidence is stacked against him?
SCORE__

Total____

SCORING

If your boss scores:
1-4 | Be frustrated
5-7 | Be cautious
8-12 | Be afraid
13-16 | BE VERY AFRAID
Stayed tuned for "The Televangelist", Part 3...

While this does not apply to my boss, it hits some other folk I know dead on... but that's another topic for another time...

In His service,
Mr. J

[beartrap]

Since August 2005 Danny Shelton has regularly featured his brother, Kenny Shelton (anti-Seventh Day Adventist dissident) on 3ABN. As of October 15, 2005 Kenny Shelton is representing 3ABN at Rallies in Seventh-day Adventist Churches, and at the Ten Commandments event. In the October 2005 issue of Land Marks, John Grosboll’s radical anti-Adventist magazine, Kenny Shelton is a featured author encouraging the readers to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church because it is not God’s true church.

Not many years ago, Kenny was pastoring a Seventh-day Adventist Church in Herrin, Illinois. He partnered with several dissident former-Adventist leaders such as John and Marshall Grosboll, and Dr.Ralph Larson. Kenny was ordained by Dr. Larson in a ceremony that was not recognized by the Church, and was publicly condemned by the General Conference President.

As a result of Kenny’s actions as part of the separationist “Historic Adventist” movement, he was disfellowshipped. Most of his congregation left the Seventh-day Adventist Church with him.

Kenny Shelton now runs his own offshoot anti-Adventist organization called Behold The Lamb Ministries. Also, for over a decade, Kenny has been very actively associated with John Grossbol of Steps To Life Ministries, and with Dr. Larson. Kenny is a featured speaker at their campmeetings, as well as a variety of other offshoot campmeetings. He is also a featured author in the Steps To Life Magazine, Land Marks.

In the February 1997 issue of Land Marks, Kenny Shelton encourages members to leave their churches, form “home churches,” and not look back. He says, “Error is never harmless. Testimonies, vol. 5, 292. Therefore, because of so much error and apostasy, many have found it necessary to establish separate worship services apart from the structure.”

“We must not return to Egypt. We must not return to a structure that is deep in apostasy, for God’s counsel is always the same, in every situation, structure or independent. Separate from sin!”
Ibid

“Who would have thought that in Adventism the apostasy would become so great that in many places it would become spiritually dangerous to even attend the local Seventh- day Adventist Church because error was being “forced home to the people.”
Ibid

In the May 1997 Issue, Kenny carefully lays a foundation demonstrating the Church is teaching error, and then he writes, “a warning is given to separate from those “which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine.”

“Now, let me ask you a question. Is it not right for an individual (you) to choose to support or work with, or not to support and work with certain ministries? Each individual makes their decision based upon the teaching of each ministry. If their teaching does not line up with what you believe the truth is, you withdraw your support.”
Ibid

“That is the way it should be conducted. But what is the difference when we, the ministries, must withdraw from another ministry because of differences of doctrine? I hope you are getting the point! Yes, there will be unity among God’s true and faithful, and at the same time division because of those who will not come into line.”
Ibid

In the October 2005 issue if Land Marks, Kenny writes, “I often hear it said, “The church is moving on.” To what church does this refer? The true church of God will be moving on. It will go on through. But this does not mean the true church is a certain denomination. There are many who believe the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is God’s true church. If it is God’s church, it will speak as does God. If it does not speak as God speaks, it is not His church—regardless of its name or where it is located. God does not speak with a forked tongue”

On his website, www.beholdthelambministries.com , Kenny Shelton is featuring John Grosboll, and Dennis Crystal. Both of them are former Adventists who are outspoken critics of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

John Grosboll claims that the Seventh-day Adventist Church has split into two groups: the “little group” and the “big group.” In the June 2002 issue of Land Marks, he indicates that the “big group” is the organized Church structure. He says, “The larger of these groups, sometimes referred to as the "Professed Church," is destined to go to ruin and destruction—to fall. They profess to be the "True Church.”

“The other group is destined to appear to fall, because it will seem that they are going to be annihilated. Since it appears that this group will be destroyed, we must face the reality that the majority of this smaller group could be martyred. (See Maranatha, 199.) But instead of falling, it will remain. This smaller group is referred to by Ellen White, in other places, as the "True Church."”
Ibid

“Dear Friend, if that still, small voice is telling you that you are in the large group of professed Adventists who are not really true Adventists, it is not yet too late for you to change sides, to change leaders.”
Ibid

In an article on his website, www.steps2life.com ,entitled, “Issues: No New Organization,” John Gosboll writes, “Those who do not uphold God’s law are joining the new organization that was started by Satan.”
“The awful possibility of the Seventh-day Adventist church organization starting a new organization independent from God is a matter of prophecy. Ellen White prophesied that what we are seeing today could happen. We will look at the 12 main points of the prophecy having to do with the new organization in Adventism. It was a conditional prophecy in her day. It is coming to pass in our day.
1. Principles of truth that God...has given to the remnant church would be discarded—our religion would be changed.
2. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work in the 19th century would be accounted as error.
3. A new organization would be established.
4. Books of a new order would be written.
5. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced.
6. The founders of this system would go into the cities to do a wonderful work.
7. The Sabbath would be lightly regarded (as the God who created it).
8. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement.
9. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed,
10. They would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless.
11. Their foundation would be built on the sand.
12. Storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.”
Ibid

Following this he states that only number 12 has not been fulfilled. He goes on to say:
“Around the world there is a giant tidal wave taking place that many professed Adventist ministers are trying to stop. People are searching and finding historical Adventism—the same doctrines of the Bible that electrified our pioneers and made the Seventh-day Adventist church what it has been. These people are finding out that the present Seventh-day Adventist churches in their localities no longer believe and practice historic Adventism so they are assembling in home churches which are not recognized by “the conference.”
Ibid

It is then claimed that they are not united with the church. But the question needs again to be asked, Who and what is the church? Since the remnant of the woman’s seed consists of those who love God and keep His commandments and have the spirit of prophecy, if you are united with an organized body of historic Seventh-day Adventist believers, you are united with the church. (To have a church, you need to have two historic Seventh-day Adventists who are agreed and unified—see Matthew 18.)”
Ibid

Kenny Shelton travels with Dr. Ralph Larson, and they collude on speaking engagements at the various dissident former-Seventh-day Adventist events. In the November 2000 edition of Land Marks, Dr. Larson says, “…we believe the General Conference has launched an Inquisition, which may result in the separation from the church of several thousand believers,”

“They must simply accept the judgment of the Inquisitors as infallible—all of which reminds us of the Catholic Inquisition in Spain.”
Ibid

“Inquisitions work with falsehoods and misrepresentations. This is their stock in trade. Unfortunately, the General Conference Inquisition is no exception to this rule.”
“Many of the historic Adventists recognize these false doctrines as the very ones they left behind when they came out of Babylonish churches to join the Adventist church.”
Ibid

“…we are confronted today with the appalling spectacle of a large group of high ranking church leaders sitting down together to concoct a list of totally false accusations against church members, whose only crime is that they will not accept the apostasy that is sweeping through the church. Thus the leaders align themselves with the apostasy. The grossly false accusations that the Inquisitors have prepared and published would compare favorably with the work of the Catholic Inquisitors in Spain.”
Ibid

“…with the General Conference Inquisition moving in on us, what shall we do? Should we tremble in fear and agree to accept the false authority and the false doctrines if they will just let us stay in the church?”
Ibid

The Tithe Problem
by Ralph Larson
“As this heart- wrenching experience continues, the church member is eventually forced to recognize that Ellen White's predictions about the great Adventist apostasy are being fulfilled before his eyes. Then comes the agonizing question, “Does God require me to pay my tithe to support the great apostasy?”
Like many others before him, he decides that this line of reasoning just doesn't make sense. He then turns to an independent ministry holding the Seventh- day Adventist historic faith, preaching the message that he accepted when he joined the church. He now begins to send his tithe to that ministry.
Now the question for every fair- minded person to consider is, Who is responsible? Has the church member's problem been created by the independent ministry, or by the preaching of the false doctrines of Calvinism in his own church?”

“There is no biblical or Spirit of Prophecy evidence to support the view that all tithe must, regardless of circumstances, be paid through organizational channels. Such a position might in some cases require that outright apostasy be supported by tithe, which is far beyond the boundaries of reason.”
Ibid

Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church support Danny Shelton and his promotion of Kenny Shelton and his continuous vitriolic attacks on the Church? The Church, through its approval of Danny Shelton as the representative of true Adventism to millions of Seventh-day Adventists, and the world at large, gives tacit approval of Kenny, his insurgent associates in their malicious attacks on Church doctrine, and their overt directives diverting millions and millions of tithe and offering dollars from thousands of deceived Seventh-day Adventists into their nefarious organizations.

How long can the Church tolerate its life blood being sucked away to feed the attack dogs, and support the luxury lifestyles and travel habits of those who legitimize their mission?

[beartrap]

To me this is rather interesting in light of the fact that in its early years 3ABN was largely made up of enthusiastic right-wing dissidents like Kenny Shelton, John Grossboll, Marshall Grossboll, Ron Spear, Jan Marcussen, John Osborne, and others.

Could it be that the principle of independent leaders being more godly and mission minded than church leaders, and therefor more deserving of tithes and offerings, and more worthy of being followed as the only true spiritual leaders, is one that appeals to Danny?

This post has been edited by beartrap: May 11 2006, 02:31 PM

[Brother Sam]

Beartrap:

What is Historic Adventist? I throught Ellen white said our doctrines was to become more pure like Jesus's doctrines. I thought when Jesus appears in the sky, Gods people will have the true doctrines. I thought Righteous by Faith and pure love will be in the hearts of those who go throught the time of trouble. Its interesting they are not using all of Ellen White's statements when they talk about the church.

If you a historic adventist, before 1888 you probably don't believe in righteous by faith.

I am not saying the church doesn't have some problems but if you have been around some of the independences you will find they are not near the christian they think they are. I think you will find they are out to take the title away from the church because they know of better ways to spent it. Could it be on pleasures and jets?

[Hersheys99]

As a former member of Kenny's church, you know what strikes me really funny in all this with Kenny rejoining forces with Danny is that we were told we were to have no association with 3ABN whatsoever as it wasn't good. Hmmmmmmmmmmm now he is joining forces with Danny once again. Wonder who changed sides? But birds of a feather flock together. Guess they can both get rid of their wives with no grounds & remarry whoever they choose & all is well. Member of his church none the less. Best stop before I get into a novel on this one. All I can say is Lord have mercy on us all.

[beartrap]

As a former member of Kenny's church, you know what strikes me really funny in all this with Kenny rejoining forces with Danny is that we were told we were to have no association with 3ABN whatsoever as it wasn't good. Hmmmmmmmmmmm now he is joining forces with Danny once again. Wonder who changed sides? But birds of a feather flock together. Guess they can both get rid of their wives with no grounds & remarry whoever they choose & all is well. Member of his church none the less. Best stop before I get into a novel on this one. All I can say is Lord have mercy on us all.

Well now that just a scream. As a 3ABN employee back in 1989 when Kenny was fired, for a number of years we were forbidden from having any contact with Kenny (Danny's brother), Emma Lou (Kenny's wife), Goldie (Danny's mother), or Tammy (Danny's sister) because Kenny was was a sinner and the others had sided with him. and yes, Kenny dumped Emma Lou and ran off with Chris. (The short version)

This post has been edited by beartrap: May 11 2006, 08:34 PM

[Hersheys99]

Now that is just rich!! I didn't know that bear. It just keeps getting better & better or is that worse & worse?