An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 7 (the dollar store and the Lengend) Options

[Clay]

Thank you watchbird for your wonderful, accurate comments.

This is for Sister and all his/her other identities.

Sister gave me the go ahead to "sing"! By golly, I did, and then sister said some terrible things. Talk about a slap in the face! In fact she/he blamed me for a post that OTHERS made. People I do not know, or care to know. I find the "Story" rather boring and can clearly see sister has her/his own agenda. That is OK, because I have mine too.

Why? Because I do have a dog in this fight. I stand for those who cannot stand for themselves! You can take that anyway you want to.

When Jesus comes, He will ask me what I did to stop these crimes and sins done in the name of the Lord. I can reply that I did my best by even reporting it to authorities. Maybe I will do it again and again until someone listens. Now, Sister, you go ahead and forget about others and drag this out to fit real nice into YOUR agenda!

I feel I am talking to the now deceased "Margaret Gray" from CA in other personalities. Everyone is talking to themselves. Say something for a change. Answer me this. Why did you only tell about Dr Dunbar just now. You have known for months. You are waiting for your big reveal and that has to wait until the latter part of June. Now, tell me who is not controlled by that almighty dollar! I guess it is more important, and these thing could be continuing to happen to innocent people. Oops!

Yes, you do have an agenda! Can you face God when he asks why you allowed all this delay.

I think I will just wait until the latter part of June and hear Linda herself! You are getting boring as you are stalling. Count the cost! Not telling the truth is a lie. It might be good to understand the adgenda. Nothing should take two years to drag out for so long.
Just venting. Now back to the SLOW reveal with its delayed agenda.

Fran..... I feel the same way... that there is an agenda, and that it is taking forever to get to the punch line.... you obviously know more than I ever will, but I do know when someone is trying to yank my chain or pull my leg.... this is getting old.... one more time.... tinkle or get off the pot....

[Jvat]

Fran is this the case of when one deals with mud, they get dirt on them?

Sister, maybe the time has come for you to show your true colors. I do not think that it is time to turn on others in the same fight. Clay, one of the administrators, wants to know what is your real motive here and looks like he has a point!

Speak up, Sister!

This post has been edited by Jvat: May 29 2006, 01:40 AM

[gracetoyou]

Curiouser and curiouser!

This post has been edited by gracetoyou: May 29 2006, 06:40 AM

[watchbird]

Thank you watchbird for your wonderful, accurate comments.

You are welcome. It would have been much more of a compliment had you chosen to follow them rather than to exhibit your frustration for all the world to see.

And I can understand your frustration. Two years of solid and careful research have not yet apparently produced any real results. The place where most of that research is posted is off limits to everyone except the favored few who are granted entrance to it. Recently I also was added to the list of those not granted access, so I don't really even know if the threads are still there or if they were wiped out like many of them were previously. But whatever your frustration, the inaccurate reporting and demeaning attacks you have chosen to make in this post are such that I simply must respond to them in detail, though I hate to see them repeated even for this purpose.

This is for Sister and all his/her other identities.

While there are undoubtably others of us here who understand just how serious a defamation of character these statements of yours are in which you suggest that Sister could be a pseudonym for the infamous person who called himself "Margaret Gray", probably most reading this forum have no idea of just how demeaning such an insinuation/accusation really is. One would have to have been a member of CA for some time to have had the misfortune of seeing MG in all her infamy and feeling the bite of his caustic tongue. Talk about unfounded rumor without documentation! This post could be deleted by staff on that grounds alone. For if indeed such were to be the case, it would mean that that person (or persons as has been claimed by him/them) would have had to undergo not only conversion, but a complete change of character, writing style, employment history, and character. The only possible "circumstantial evidence" for you to build this speculation on is the one thing that this is a "female" pseudonym. That's all. Nothing else fits. Nothing!

Sister gave me the go ahead to "sing"!

May I remind you, Sister is not the master of this forum or this thread. Even if she recognized that you had valuable informtion gained by careful research that you could profitably share with this forum, and expressed it in her characteristically picturesque language, that should have had no influence over you to the extent of laying aside your previously exhibited discretion as to what should and what should not be said in a public forum.

By golly, I did, and then sister said some terrible things. Talk about a slap in the face! In fact she/he blamed me for a post that OTHERS made. People I do not know, or care to know. I find the "Story" rather boring and can clearly see sister has her/his own agenda. That is OK, because I have mine too.

Why? Because I do have a dog in this fight. I stand for those who cannot stand for themselves! You can take that anyway you want to.

When Jesus comes, He will ask me what I did to stop these crimes and sins done in the name of the Lord. I can reply that I did my best by even reporting it to authorities. Maybe I will do it again and again until someone listens. Now, Sister, you go ahead and forget about others and drag this out to fit real nice into YOUR agenda!

I think that Sister has made it quite clear what her "agenda" is, and that it is the same as that of the other serious researchers who do not think that Danny Shelton should be allowed to continue his unscrupulous and damaging ways while hiding behind the allegations of others that he both speaks directly for God and that he is "the face of Adventism to the world".

I rather think that she has a much larger "dog" in the fight than what either you or I do, and that she knows a lot more about the numbers and state of living of "those who cannot stand for themselves" than we do. So I'm suggesting very strongly that you apologize to her and to this forum for your unseemly and inaccurate burst of emotional accusations.

I feel I am talking to the now deceased "Margaret Gray" from CA in other personalities. Everyone is talking to themselves. Say something for a change. Answer me this. Why did you only tell about Dr Dunbar just now. You have known for months. You are waiting for your big reveal and that has to wait until the latter part of June. Now, tell me who is not controlled by that almighty dollar! I guess it is more important, and these thing could be continuing to happen to innocent people. Oops!

As a matter of fact, it was not Sister who posted about Mabel Dunbar. I believe that I was the first, though almost immediately after I posted I noticed that Beartrap had mentioned the name of Polly's Place in another thread, but I didn't compare the date time stamps to see who was first. When I mentioned it I did so only obliquely, not sure that Beartrap wanted the details revealed. It was he who revealed them, and actually revealed more details on them than I myself had been aware of until that moment. What the significance of "the latter part of June" is, I don't know. I do know that we are all waiting for the "wheels that grind slowly" to grind away. When it is time to reveal all, doubtless we will all know about it.

Yes, you do have an agenda! Can you face God when he asks why you allowed all this delay.

I think I will just wait until the latter part of June and hear Linda herself! You are getting boring as you are stalling. Count the cost! Not telling the truth is a lie. It might be good to understand the adgenda. Nothing should take two years to drag out for so long.
Just venting. Now back to the SLOW reveal with its delayed agenda.

I think it would have been better for you to restrict your venting to private individuals and go back to your normal character of patient thorough investigator and patient waiter.

Fran..... I feel the same way... that there is an agenda, and that it is taking forever to get to the punch line.... you obviously know more than I ever will, but I do know when someone is trying to yank my chain or pull my leg.... this is getting old.... one more time.... tinkle or get off the pot....

This is not toilet training time, and yes, it is getting old. Very old for those of us who have followed it for two years. Very, very, very very, old for those who have lived with it, whether trapped in it or excapees from it, for five, ten, or even twenty years. The "punch line" as you call it has not yet been written and cannot be written until it has happened. This is not completed history. This is history in progress. It is never easy to wait for history to happen. Sister can only tell what has happened. She is not a forteller of the future.

Fran is this the case of when one deals with mud, they get dirt on them?

I wish you could know Fran as I have seen her in the past. Then you would understand without condemnation that when it is necessary to "deal with mud" it does happen that even the very best do not come out without at least losing their patience at times. But I remain strong in my confidence in Fran's integrity and character, and I am quite sure that once she has vented a bit that she will take a shower and change clothes and once more be her old cheerful, friendly, careful patient researcher that she had previously been.

Sister, maybe the time has come for you to show your true colors. I do not think that it is time to turn on others in the same fight. Clay, one of the administrators, wants to know what is your real motive here and looks like he has a point!

Speak up, Sister!

You do not know what you ask. Please do not urge Sister to do what she cannot do for reasons that cannot be told. You have all been gracious to her and accepted her as one of your "family".
Most of the rest of you are only known to any other than close friends by some pseudonym. Please, I urge you, continue to allow Sister that same privilege without questioning her motives. It would seem to me that her work stands on its own merit and that her motives are crystal clear and consistent throughout her many installments of history as she lived and observed it.

Curiouser and curiouser!

Yes indeed.

[summertime]

"She hath done what she could". These words of commendation from Jesus are, I think, a possible goal for each of us.

What can we do? Just what we are doing. Tell our stories. Encourage others to tell theirs. Let the different personalities and viewpoints color our interpretations of the stories so this is a living tapestry woven by many word artists hung out here in public so all who pass may read.

What can we do? Just what you have done. Pick a place, offer a word of encouragement. Give a donation. Tell others of this "wonderful place called Polly's Place" which is in need of money to follow up on all the requests for help they are getting. Tell them that while it is directly connected to the church organization, so it has full lines of accountability in place, that it does not receive funds from the church, but is dependent upon independent sources for funds.

What can we do? That will vary with our circumstances. Let's just do something. Whatever we each can find to do.

I first got the idea to become a member of C/A by reading an advertisement about it in the "Outlook" MidAmerica which is sent out regularly to all Church Members in our area. I found out about BSDA quite by accident--googling, I think. But I was wondering if BSDA has ever run an ad to encourage people to read this forum in the Outlook--consequently they may be reading the things that we have posted. It might be noted that both C/A and BSDA has an open invitation to all religions, races, colors and creeds.. Also, I wonder if anyone has ever seen "Polly's Place" advertisted in the Outlook. If either of these entities have been advertised in the Outlook I may be simply uninformed. If more SDA knew about Polly's Place more people might be encouraged to contribute to Polly's Place. This is what I meant by collectively working together. By all means, having love for each other on this forum is going to go a long way with our prayers being answered,.

Friends, I have been following the postings of Fran for a very long time on C/A and I am positive that she is one of the most endeavering 'tell the truth and nothing but the truth' person. She has no personal agenda but to protect the efforts of those who have given, including me, a previous monthly offering to a ministry which we believed was built for God. She has spent long hours trying to make sure that our sacrifices were not given in vain. It must seem fruitless to her when she continues to see the wicked use of the funds that we have all given. I believe that her purpose in donating so much of her time is to better the honest work of God. Her consistant efforts should be appreciated by all of us

I also believe that every word that 'sister' has written is the truth. I do not know her personally,--not who she really is or where she is, or even if she has personally felt the wrath of Danny Shelton. But I do believe that she knows more than anyone else about the harm that has been done to many co-workers at 3ABN. SHe does have a story to tell. And I pray that she will be able to save others, by her story, from Danny Shelton and his board's attacks on innocent people with lies and twisted truths. I admire her work greatly. And it is facetious to equate her or compare her with the horrible "Margaret Gray".

So we have many posters whose only purpose is to see the work of God pushed forward with honest, truthful efforts--not with the misrepresentations that we continue to see in the evilness of those who are still in control at 3ABN. Certainly, if we are on the right track here, God will answer our prayers in His own time. Maybe the authentation of who each of us really are would help this whole matter. We may be able to run for a while, but we can hold fast to the protection of Jesus.



This post has been edited by summertime: May 29 2006, 09:26 AM

[watchbird]

I first got the idea to become a member of C/A by reading an advertisement about it in the "Outlook" MidAmerica which is sent out regularly to all Church Members in our area. I found out about BSDA quite by accident--googling, I think. But I was wondering if BSDA has ever run an ad to encourage people to read this forum in the Outlook--consequently they may be reading the things that we have posted. It might be noted that both C/A and BSDA has an open invitation to all religions, races, colors and creeds..

Running an ad for BSDA in the various Union Papers would be a wonderful idea. Due to the pressure put upon denominational entities to maintain the official policy of neutrality towards 3ABN, however, such an ad should never mention 3ABN as being one of the topics of discussion. But that would not need to be anyhow. Once someone comes to read they will see this as well as all else that is here, and most likely they will be impressed by what they see so that they will want to become registered participants.

Also, I wonder if anyone has ever seen "Polly's Place" advertisted in the Outlook. If either of these entities have been advertised in the Outlook I may be simply uninformed. If more SDA knew about Polly's Place more people might be encouraged to contribute to Polly's Place. This is what I meant by collectively working together. By all means, having love for each other on this forum is going to go a long way with our prayers being answered,.

I think that most things advertised in the various Union papers require payment. Offering to defray the cost of a specific Union paper might be something positive that individuals here could do. OTOH, running a newsworthy story might only require a few requests for such a story topic from those within the particular Union. Doubtless Polly's Place has some standard publicity stories already written, or would be delighted to give an interview for this purpose.

[Jvat]

Hey Watchbird, I have absolutely no beef with Fran. When I referred to the dirt getting on her, I was more concerned about her pain from the supposedly unexpected reaction that she received from Sister. And I was saying that this matter is so convoluted and messy that one could hardly avoid getting somewhat messed up as one is actively involved. So it is important that all keep tempers at bay in the circumstances so one does not get misunderstood.

[summertime]

Running an ad for BSDA in the various Union Papers would be a wonderful idea. Due to the pressure put upon denominational entities to maintain the official policy of neutrality towards 3ABN, however, such an ad should never mention 3ABN as being one of the topics of discussion. But that would not need to be anyhow. Once someone comes to read they will see this as well as all else that is here, and most likely they will be impressed by what they see so that they will want to become registered participants.
I think that most things advertised in the various Union papers require payment. Offering to defray the cost of a specific Union paper might be something positive that individuals here could do. OTOH, running a newsworthy story might only require a few requests for such a story topic from those within the particular Union. Doubtless Polly's Place has some standard publicity stories already written, or would be delighted to give an interview for this purpose.

OK. Then how do we begin? Does anyone know how much payment is required for placing an ad. And do the moderators or owner really want BSDA advertised in which papers? Also, does anyone have suggestions on what Union Papers or magazines would be interested in a newsworthy story of Polly's Place?. And upon whose authority and decisions should this even be done? We need to do something positive instead of simply writing to each other about it. Any guidelines or suggestions, please?

[beartrap]

Precipitous actions often result from goading and they usually end up with disastrous results. The tinkle or get off the pot thing sounds good spoken as so many words, but being goaded into turning one's hand when keeping it down is the intelligent thing to do, should be avoided.

People who had no grasp on the reality of the situation gave their cavalier advice that the government just take Al Capone down. How hard could it be? He was having people killed in broad daylight, some of his henchmen squealed, his illegal escapades were all over the news... It should have been as simple as walking into his hotel, arresting him, and sending him to the chair. Yet, it took years of chipping away and only the IRS was able to eventually do anything. That is reality.

In almost every mob case, happy little people who read the news are frustrated at how complicated such a simple thing is. All the guy on the witness stand has to do is tell the truth and the threat will go away because the big guy will be convicted. In their charming innocence, they don't see the big guy's henchmen holding guns to the heads of the witness's kids. Others see the guns and self-righteously say, "sometimes the right thing to do is hard, but it is still the right thing to do."

This post has been edited by beartrap: May 29 2006, 11:15 AM

[inga]

Most of us live out our lives in the small circles of our family, friends, and local contacts at work or church. While we each have a sphere of influence and each are called to "make a difference" in the struggle between good and evil that goes on all around us, that "difference" may be only in a very small and circumscribed circle.

Our standing for the right is often done in quite unremarkable ways: smiling at a rambunctious child, showing sensitivity to a coworker who is having a bad day, choosing carefully the jokes we laugh at, the TV programs we watch, the videos we pick up from the store without thinking that the clerk might be taking mental note.

Only occasionally is someone put in a position where they have opportunity to stand as a hero and make a pronounced difference in the lives of people all around the globe. The rarity of the opportunity tends to magnify the tragedy when someone placed in that position chooses to aid evil rather than take a stand against it. We have no way of knowing the motivations of John Lomacang's heart. Is he driven merely by the desire for monetary and popularity benefits? Is he driven by fear of retaliation should he speak the truth? Is he living in fear that that some unknown to the world weakness of his will be exposed? Would it also expose him to dangers of which we have little knowledge? It would take real courage and character to step out at this point and have to confess his errancy for not doing so before. Does John Lomacang have that kind of courage and character?

One definition of a hero is one who can act for the right even in the face of his fears. Another way of saying this is that courage is not the absence of fear, but choosing to do the thing that needs to be done in spite of the fear, in spite of genuine danger.

Desmond Doss was that kind of hero.

Is John Lomacang able to be a hero?

Only time will tell.

Thank you so much for that thoughtful post. It reminds me again of Ellen White's statement:
"The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall." (Education p. 57)

Will John Lomacang yet rise up to be that kind of man, or will he sell his soul for the mess of pottage offered by 3ABN.

He can't have it both ways.

By the way, does anyone have an email address for John Lomacang that goes directly to him -- without being censored by Molly or Danny? If so, it would be good to let him know that he is being talked about here, and that he might want to take a look at this URL (this page, not the whole thread).

This post has been edited by inga: May 29 2006, 11:26 AM

[Panama_Pete]

OK. Then how do we begin? Any guidelines or suggestions, please?

I shall start by downloading the brochures from Polly's Place Web site. I shall print some copies either on my printer or at Kinkos, and then begin distributing them to those I talk to about Polly's Place.

I shall start the journey by taking one step forward. We all have about 100 people we can talk to on a regular basis. Barbers, car mechanics, the cable guy, etc. See how creative you can get.

If you see some people painting houses in the neighborhood, or walking their dogs, stop and give them a brochure.

http://www.pollysplacenetwork.com/articles.asp

We can share our stories about the people we gave the brochures to, etc.

This approach would be more productive and useful than talking about people who say they "mend broken people" but do not.

By the way, does anyone have an email address for John Lomacang that goes directly to him -- without being censored by Polly [sic Mollie] or Danny? If so, it would be good to let him know that he is being talked about here, and that he might want to take a look at this URL (this page, not the whole thread).

John Lomacang
PO Box 477
West Frankfort, IL 62896-0477
Email: jplomacang@earthlink.net

(I still prefer your snail mail idea, though.)

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: May 29 2006, 11:18 AM

[beartrap]

I shall start by downloading the brochures from Polly's Place Web site. I shall print some copies either on my printer or at Kinkos, and then begin distributing them to those I talk to about Polly's Place.

Thats awesome, Pete! You don't need to print, just PM me an address and brochures and a DVD will be sent to you.

[watchbird]

OK. Then how do we begin? Does anyone know how much payment is required for placing an ad. And do the moderators or owner really want BSDA advertised in which papers? Also, does anyone have suggestions on what Union Papers or magazines would be interested in a newsworthy story of Polly's Place?. And upon whose authority and decisions should this even be done? We need to do something positive instead of simply writing to each other about it. Any guidelines or suggestions, please?

Doing something does not have to be placed in an "instead of" context. Talking to each other is important, especially in this venue which is open for any who come by to read. In addition to that, however, there is real value in not only talking about what can be done, but in actually doing some of the things suggested, or some that are inspired by something said here.

As far as placing an ad for BSDA, that would have to come from Calvin, I would assume, unless he wanted to delegate the responsibility to someone else.

When it comes to the Union papers, it is my understanding that they have their own requirements for accepting ads, as well as their own pricing schedules. This information, or contact information for finding the information, would be available on your Union website or possibly in the Union paper itself. And probably the request for an ad would only be looked at seriously if it came from someone within that specific Union. So this is not something that someone can do for all Unions. You could, however, send your suggestion to Polly's Place itself and find out if this is something they themselves can initiate.

You could also write to specific Adventist papers and tell them about your interest in Polly's Place, give them the url of the website and that you would very much like to see an article done on this organization. Women of Spirit is one that might be specifically interested in it. OTOH, they may have already run such an article and you may not have noticed it. Be aware that most magazines have a very long planning cycle. Adventist Review, for example, has their feature stories planned out for three years in advance. Only late breaking news type items can get into it in shorter notice. Be aware also that magazines are normally looking for articles to evaluate for publication rather than for ideas for articles for which they would have to devote staff time or find an author.

As for authority, anyone can initiate a request on only their own desire. The editorial or marketing department of the magazine (depending on whether it is for a story or a public request for funds) would have the final say on the decisions. In the case of Adventist Review, the advertising for the magazine is handled by the Review and Herald Publishing Assn. Marketing Department, not by the editorial staff.

It would be well to contact Mabel Dunbar to learn what her desires are in this area before contacting any magazine. While we know that she needs operating funds, we do not know that she needs more publicity. It may be that until she has funds, she has more opportunities now than what she has funds for.

[beartrap]

A few emails from Danny:

Please advise Linda that it is time to leave me and start a new life for herself. Anytime that our relationship would degrade to the point that she would listen to such foolish advice as hiding my gun, the relationship is over.”
4/27/2004

You will get a chance to prove many of the things you have accused me and my family and some 3ABN friends of. You were dumb enough to put all those lies on paper. I don't need to sue you. The people that will sue you are not public figures but have money enough to bring you to justice… Get ready to dip into your saving to go to court.
5/19/2005

I never thought you would stoop to what Jorgan, Alias Johann and you, would write about the televangelist. Of course some of your so called friends sent me a copy of what you dictated to Johann. We know the whole story. I can tell you that there are more than one person who will be filing lawsuits against both you and Johann…

I believe that you are determined to lose what settlement you got and your house and anything else. I can tell you that several different lawsuits by different people will cost you a lot of money just for attorneys fees.

I hope Johann has lots of money to spend on attorneys also as he will need it if these people that I talked to tonight go through with their suits. I feel sorry for you but so far I don't for him. He is going to get what he deserves.
5/18/2005

Garwin knows law better than any attorney I know… He thinks nothing of spending whatever money it takes to defend truth no matter how long it takes. He is a very committed man to truth.
He says you really tried to promote the Hope Channel to him. He already knows about some of the programs that Hope puts on, like the one where they promote the Catholic church for all the good they do in the city of Los Angeles. Claus called me from Europe some time ago to tell me that he just watched a special on the Hope Channel promoting the Lutheran Church. You see Johann, Garwin is smart enough to figure out that if you are really an SDA pastor that you wouldn't be happy with some of the programming that hope is showing which is not even SDA. He realizes that you hate me and the 3ABN leadership so much that you will twist the truth to try to convince him of something that is not true. He is an extremely brilliant man. He didn't make hundreds of millions of dollars by falling for the lines of people like you.
5/26/2005

This post has been edited by beartrap: May 29 2006, 04:01 PM

[Clay]

A few emails from Danny:

Please advise Linda that it is time to leave me and start a new life for herself. Anytime that our relationship would degrade to the point that she would listen to such foolish advice as hiding my gun, the relationship is over.”
4/27/2004...................snip..............

and we know these are from Danny because?

Precipitous actions often result from goading and they usually end up with disastrous results. The tinkle or get off the pot thing sounds good spoken as so many words, but being goaded into turning one's hand when keeping it down is the intelligent thing to do, should be avoided.

People who had no grasp on the reality of the situation gave their cavalier advice that the government just take Al Capone down. How hard could it be? He was having people killed in broad daylight, some of his henchmen squealed, his illegal escapades were all over the news... It should have been as simple as walking into his hotel, arresting him, and sending him to the chair. Yet, it took years of chipping away and only the IRS was able to eventually do anything. That is reality.

In almost every mob case, happy little people who read the news are frustrated at how complicated such a simple thing is. All the guy on the witness stand has to do is tell the truth and the threat will go away because the big guy will be convicted. In their charming innocence, they don't see the big guy's henchmen holding guns to the heads of the witness's kids. Others see the guns and self-righteously say, "sometimes the right thing to do is hard, but it is still the right thing to do."

so now Mr. Shelton is in the same company with Al Capone..... interesting....


This post has been edited by Clay: May 29 2006, 04:54 PM