Dr. Arild Abrahamsen Speaks Out For Himself And Linda Options

[calvin]

We are definitely not a carbon copy of any forum.

And, thank you, Calvin, for your post. That is what makes each of our forums unique.

I believe BSDA has gained a lot in creditability as a result of the 3ABN threads. What set BSDA apart from other Adventist discussion venues it that we are a source for open and frank discussion of issues or anything facing our church...but of course we already knew that before the 3ABN saga. No hidden or special membership only discussion forums here. Apparently, this is what people are looking for as BSDA continues to grow in number and influence.

[sonshineonme]

I believe BSDA has gained a lot in creditability as a result of the 3ABN threads. What set BSDA apart from other Adventist discussion venues it that we are a source for open and frank discussion of issues or anything facing our church...but of course we already knew that before the 3ABN saga. No hidden or special membership only discussion forums here. Apparently, this is what people are looking for as BSDA continues to grow in number and influence.

It's the only way to be.

[Siriss]

Hmm...Club Adventist is publishing...Maritime is publishing...BSDA is publishing...????

Here all along, I thought it was Johann that was publishing.

[Clay]

Club Adventist has been publishing this letter all along in their 3ABN section.

and?

[Clay]

Hmm...Club Adventist is publishing...Maritime is publishing...BSDA is publishing...????

Here all along, I thought it was Johann that was publishing.

bsda is not publishing.... it is providing the venue for whomever chooses to publish....

[Observer]

bsda is not publishing.... it is providing the venue for whomever chooses to publish....

O.K. I Will accept 40 lashes with a wet spaghetti noodle for making a factual misstatement.

[Jewel50]

I have been following this developing story for months. I think it has reached the point in which other ministries that use 3ABN for airtime should wake up and seriously consider pulling their programs off 3ABN and transferring to the HOPE Channel. The 3ABN scandal will cast it's shadow on other ministries by association once the general rank and file SDA membership get the true picture. I especially hope the people at Amazing Facts are paying attention.

Amen to this. All these people and yes I too hope the people at Amazing Facts will do this if they know what is going on. I have to admit that I would find it hard to believe that they do not. Is it just me or is the Hope channel showing more of Amazing Facts than before?

Nehemiah was chosen by God because he was willing to cooperate with the Lord as a restorer. Falsehood and intrigue were used to pervert his integrity, but he would not be bribed. He refused to be corrupted by the devices of unprincipled men, who had been hired to do an evil work. He would not allow them to intimidate him into following a cowardly course. When he saw wrong principles being acted upon, he did not stand by as an onlooker, and by his silence give consent. He did not leave the people to conclude that he was standing on the wrong side. He took a firm, unyielding stand for the right. He would not lend one jot of influence to the perversion of the principles that God has established. Whatever the course others might pursue, he could say, "So did not I, because of the fear of God."
RH, May 2, 1899 par. 6

This post has been edited by Jewel50: Jul 15 2006, 07:01 AM

[Panama_Pete]

Amen to this. All these people and yes I too hope the people at Amazing Facts will do this if they know what is going on. I have to admit that I would find it hard to believe that they do not. Is it just me or is the Hope channel showing more of Amazing Facts than before?

In our town, the health inspectors are forced to publish their visits to restaurants in the newspaper, just to pressure the restaurants to fix the observed violations. A report to the restaurant about the rat turds, by itself, does not produce any urgency on the part of the restaurants. When customers read the newspaper and stop visiting the restaurants, that's when the cleaning takes place.

In a similar fashion, the Adventist Church must have received the reports of visible "rat turds" by now. As with restaurants, they need to read about themselves in the newspaper before they can clean house. The Church will do nothing until the general public reads about the turds -- and about the rats from which the turds came.

[PrincessDrRe]

I believe BSDA has gained a lot in creditability as a result of the 3ABN threads. What set BSDA apart from other Adventist discussion venues it that we are a source for open and frank discussion of issues or anything facing our church...but of course we already knew that before the 3ABN saga. No hidden or special membership only discussion forums here. Apparently, this is what people are looking for as BSDA continues to grow in number and influence.

Dead on pernt!

Hmm...Club Adventist is publishing...Maritime is publishing...BSDA is publishing...????

Here all along, I thought it was Johann that was publishing.

You gonna be alright. And in all honesty - let's break it down shall we?

IF someone writes a book - it is not that author that is "publishing" per se - but the "publishing company" who puts out the information. That person would be called the author.

Now.

If the Doctor wrote the letter - he wants the information to be out for all to see. He would be the author.

Now.

If Johann is publishing - then he would be the one responsible for the circulation of said letter which he is....

However....

If Johann uses "other venues" to disseminate the information (said letter) then those venues are also "publishing" as they are also responsible for the aforementioned letter/information being "published".

Now.

BSDA is to be considered one of those "other venues" of publication. Why? Clay and other "moderators" on said board can decide what information (letter) is "published" or not.

Therefore -

Johann is publishing; as he is disseminating the information by publishing the letter.
BSDA is publishing; as they are allowing the space to be used for publishing said letter.

"This ain't Sabbath School....."


I hope this explains it all.....

O.K. I Will accept 40 lashes with a wet spaghetti noodle for making a factual misstatement.

[beartrap]

It is claimed that the Adventist Church does not financially support 3ABN, yet they do. Every tithe and offering paying Seventh-day Adventist contributes to 3ABN. those tithes and offerings go through the layers of conferences up to the GC. The GC, and in many cases the conferences, allocates a certain amount of that money to go into It is Written, Amazing Facts, Breath of Life, Voice of Prophecy, etc. for the purpose of program distribution. Much of that money is then sent to 3ABN for payment on airtime. A few years ago, 3ABN was charging $1,200.00 per broadcast hour for each of those entities, and others, to be on the air. This makes the current scandals personally relevant to every thithe paying SDA. If people are concerned about their money going to support 3ABN and the Shelton family through the church programs, they should be raising their voices to the church leaders about a change in allocation for that funding.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Jul 15 2006, 12:28 PM

[watchbird]

Dead on pernt!
You gonna be alright. And in all honesty - let's break it down shall we?

IF someone writes a book - it is not that author that is "publishing" per se - but the "publishing company" who puts out the information. That person would be called the author.

Now.

If the Doctor wrote the letter - he wants the information to be out for all to see. He would be the author.

Now.

If Johann is publishing - then he would be the one responsible for the circulation of said letter which he is....

However....

If Johann uses "other venues" to disseminate the information (said letter) then those venues are also "publishing" as they are also responsible for the aforementioned letter/information being "published".

Now.

BSDA is to be considered one of those "other venues" of publication. Why? Clay and other "moderators" on said board can decide what information (letter) is "published" or not.

Therefore -

Johann is publishing; as he is disseminating the information by publishing the letter.
BSDA is publishing; as they are allowing the space to be used for publishing said letter.

"This ain't Sabbath School....."


I hope this explains it all.....

Actually, not quite.

The author is the author.

If he retains copyright to his writing, then he is technically the "publisher" as well.

If he distributes it privately, he is free to distribute it simultaneously to whoever he wishes, and is free to give permission for those who receive it to pass it on to others.

If he then hires a printing establishment to print and distribute it, the title page will not give the printing establishment as copyright holder, but will say something like, copyright by [author], and printed by [name of printing/publishing company] by permission of author. Depending on the explicit terms of the agreement, the printing company may have exclusive rights to print the book, meaning that even the author cannot allow anyone else to reprint it until the term of the agreement has come to an end.

If the printing establishment also takes responsibility for editing and distributing the book, then they normally ask for the copyright to be transferred to them and the author is not then free to do any other editing, printing, or distribution, and is not even free to give printing rights to any other person or entity until such a time as the publishing company relinquishes their rights, or gives limited "rights" back to the author.

Look in a few of your Pacific Press and Review and Herald books and you will see examples of some of these different copyright/publishing/printing arrangements.

In the case of Arild Abrahamson's letter: He is the author. He has chosen to distribute it privately to individuals, the main one being Johann Thorvaldson. Johann has especially been entrusted with the task of sending it along to a number of venues and individuals which were previously agreed upon between the two of them. Arild, however, has not given Johann publisher rights. That is, Arild remains the owner/author and is free to distribute it directly to whomever he pleases. Johann, being a close friend of Arild's, is following his instructions as to where and how to send it, whether by email or by posting to a forum. He also did not give Johann editor rights. The instructions he gave to Johann were that no changes were to be made in the finished copy Arild sent to him.

In the case of posting to a forum, the forum does NOT become the publisher-- in fact, it does not even become the printer. There are no "rights" transferred to the owner of the forum--and likewise no responsibility or liability for its contents. The forum owners only provide bulletin board space and the "thumbtacks" so to speak, for those who desire to post information on their board. The fact that they can, if they choose, refuse to allow some things to be posted, in no way changes their status from mere board owners/supervisors to that of "publisher".

Thus no matter how many boards or newsletters this letter might appear in, it is still the intellectual property of Arild Abrahamson, and all other venues are merely "reprinting" or "reproducing"it. None of them are "publishing" it.

[PrincessDrRe]

Directly stated/answered quotes in RED.

Actually, not quite.

The author is the author.

If he retains copyright to his writing, then he is technically the "publisher" as well.

If he distributes it privately, he is free to distribute it simultaneously to whoever he wishes, and is free to give permission for those who receive it to pass it on to others.

If he then hires a printing establishment to print and distribute it, the title page will not give the printing establishment as copyright holder, but will say something like, copyright by [author], and printed by [name of printing/publishing company] by permission of author. Depending on the explicit terms of the agreement, the printing company may have exclusive rights to print the book, meaning that even the author cannot allow anyone else to reprint it until the term of the agreement has come to an end.

If the printing establishment also takes responsibility for editing and distributing the book, then they normally ask for the copyright to be transferred to them and the author is not then free to do any other editing, printing, or distribution, and is not even free to give printing rights to any other person or entity until such a time as the publishing company relinquishes their rights, or gives limited "rights" back to the author.

Look in a few of your Pacific Press and Review and Herald books and you will see examples of some of these different copyright/publishing/printing arrangements.

In the case of Arild Abrahamson's letter: He is the author. He has chosen to distribute it privately to individuals, the main one being Johann Thorvaldson. Johann has especially been entrusted with the task of sending it along to a number of venues and individuals which were previously agreed upon between the two of them. Arild, however, has not given Johann publisher rights. That is, Arild remains the owner/author and is free to distribute it directly to whomever he pleases. Johann, being a close friend of Arild's, is following his instructions as to where and how to send it, whether by email or by posting to a forum. He also did not give Johann editor rights. The instructions he gave to Johann were that no changes were to be made in the finished copy Arild sent to him.

In the case of posting to a forum, the forum does NOT become the publisher-- in fact, it does not even become the printer. There are no "rights" transferred to the owner of the forum--and likewise no responsibility or liability for its contents. The forum owners only provide bulletin board space and the "thumbtacks" so to speak, for those who desire to post information on their board. The fact that they can, if they choose, refuse to allow some things to be posted, in no way changes their status from mere board owners/supervisors to that of "publisher".

Thus no matter how many boards or newsletters this letter might appear in, it is still the intellectual property of Arild Abrahamson, and all other venues are merely "reprinting" or "reproducing"it. None of them are "publishing" it.

If the "author" does not disseminate the information - then they are not the "publisher" as they are not "publishing anything" per se (to "prepare and issue").

PUBLISHING - per Dictionary.Com

He can retain the copyright all he wants to - however if the information is not "issued" it is not published. I could write an entire book. If I never tell anyone and it is never "put on market" or "issued" it is not published.

Of course the "author" has the right to say who can read or not his works - however if he gives no permission, and no one else reads said information how is he then a "publisher" being that the work is not "issued"?

"Arild, however, has not given Johann publisher rights."
If Arild did give permission to Johann to publish (or "issue") - per Dictionary.Com Then he is actually said "publisher" of the written piece/letter.

Per the 2nd definition on Dictionary.Com BSDA has brought the letter/written piece to public attention. Therefore they also can be called "publishers" Publishing per Wikipedia

"Thus no matter how many boards or newsletters this letter might appear in, it is still the intellectual property of Arild Abrahamson, and all other venues are merely "reprinting" or "reproducing"it. None of them are "publishing" it."

There is no dispute that the letter/writing is the property of Arild Abrahamson - however per the definitions of publishing there is question as to who is publishing. I say that Arild is the Author. I also say that Arild is the publisher because he is bringing the issue to public attention. Johann is publishing as he is "issuing" the information and bringing it to public attention. I also state that BSDA (as well as the other forums) are publishing because they are an internet form of publishing or diseminating ("to issue") said letter/information/written piece.

Disseminate per DICTIONARY.COM
Publishing per DICTIONARY.COM
Publishing per Wikipedia
Publishing per Encyclopedia Britannica
Information concerning Book Publishing per MSN/Encarta
The Columbia Encyclopedia

This post has been edited by PrincessDrRe: Jul 15 2006, 01:35 PM

[watchbird]

Directly stated/answered quotes in RED.
If the "author" does not disseminate the information - then they are not the "publisher" as they are not "publishing anything" per se (to "prepare and issue").

PUBLISHING - per Dictionary.Com

He can retain the copyright all he wants to - however if the information is not "issued" it is not published. I could write an entire book. If I never tell anyone and it is never "put on market" or "issued" it is not published.

Of course the "author" has the right to say who can read or not his works - however if he gives no permission, and no one else reads said information how is he then a "publisher" being that the work is not "issued"?

"Arild, however, has not given Johann publisher rights."
If Arild did give permission to Johann to publish (or "issue") - per Dictionary.Com Then he is actually said "publisher" of the written piece/letter.

Per the 2nd definition on Dictionary.Com BSDA has brought the letter/written piece to public attention. Therefore they also can be called "publishers" Publishing per Wikipedia

"Thus no matter how many boards or newsletters this letter might appear in, it is still the intellectual property of Arild Abrahamson, and all other venues are merely "reprinting" or "reproducing"it. None of them are "publishing" it."

There is no dispute that the letter/writing is the property of Arild Abrahamson - however per the definitions of publishing there is question as to who is publishing. I say that Arild is the Author. I also say that Arild is the publisher because he is bringing the issue to public attention. Johann is publishing as he is "issuing" the information and bringing it to public attention. I also state that BSDA (as well as the other forums) are publishing because they are an internet form of publishing or diseminating ("to issue") said letter/information/written piece.

Disseminate per DICTIONARY.COM
Publishing per DICTIONARY.COM
Publishing per Wikipedia
Publishing per Encyclopedia Britannica
Information concerning Book Publishing per MSN/Encarta
The Columbia Encyclopedia

Whatever the technical definitions--in my "other life" I have had to sort these things out in real life with real publishers, authors, copyright holders, printers holding contracts to "reprint", etc. Arild is author and in common law usage, all he has to have is proof that he was the first one to make it available to someone else to establish that he has "copyright" to it--though it could not be defended in a court of law since he did not register it in a US copyright office. There is also a difference between distributor, publisher, and agent. Johann would be Arild's chosen agent or distributor, but not his "publisher". When Arild added the lines giving permission to others to copy it under certain conditions, he established his rights, and others who copy it are merely making "reprints" of it under his direct and limited permissions. They would only be publishers if they made an agreement with him in which he granted them exclusive rights (which actually I don't think he could do once he has released it with this permission statement) and which clearly stated the financial details of such an arrangement.

Actualy --- I'm not even sure why we are having this discussion. It is, in essence, a private letter, which he has asked to be distributed by whatever means possible to as wide a reading audience as possible, and he has given his permissions for that in writing. What difference do the terms mean anyhow?

[beartrap]

LOL! chasing a goose.

[Clay]

whatever the semantics I am glad his side of the story is out.... there will still be skeptics and thats cool.... as I said on another forum, remind me not to call the church if something happens to me, I am sure the members will find a way to blame me for my plight and in essence shoot the wounded.... such toxic relationships.......