Fallible's questions regarding 3ABN, his observations and skepticism Options

[Panama_Pete]

ok, you know what? We is going in circles here....everyone, take note. NOTHING is being accomplished by this merry go round....It's a distraction. This man does more talking then listening or reading (if it is a man). I know the difference between someone ASKING and WANTING to know, and one who is playing the distraction game. "Some" people choose to keep the merrygo round going and going and going, and frankly I am getting sick. Something still smells "stanky" here. Entertainment distraction, play of the week, call it what you want. It's hard to take this kind of circular conversation serious at all.

"Distraction game" is as good a term as any. I think we should get off this ride.

[princessdi]

My impressions are telling me we could also use "desperation".

"Distraction game" is as good a term as any. I think we should get off this ride.

This post has been edited by princessdi: Aug 11 2006, 11:45 PM

[PaperTigers]

I brought more Di thing we will need them for this one.

Let me join in the snacking
I brought more food
and a blankey

[Panama_Pete]

"Betrayals of trust, especially in the midst of power differentials and by people in whom sacred authority has been vested, are especially grievous sins that call for clear accountability and expectations of true repentance"
L. Gregory Jones, dean of Duke University Divinity School

"Who hides behind masks, and curses those who hide behind masks curses himself."

"Truth is in the eye of the beholder."

"A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain."
W. Shakespeare

"He draweth out the thread of his verbosity finer than the staple of his argument."
W. Shakespeare

"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure."
Mark Twain

"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
Friederich Nietzche

"Convictions are the more dangerous enemy of truth than lies."
Friederich Nietzche

"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens."
Thomas Jefferson

"The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep."
Woody Allen

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them."
Doreen Williams

Thanks, Beartrap.

I enjoy these quotes of yours.

[inga]

I have been part of Adventist forums all the way back to the very first one and am very familiar with the tactics employed to try and wear down those who do not agree with you - sorry they won't work. I want answers and the truth. So expect me to be here for awhile.

You're familiar with the tactics, and you are using them against posters on this forum.

Again, you appear to be projecting your own tactics on others.

In your first post you were so obviously spewing Shelton rhetoric that some of us supposed you might be a Shelton alter ego. In another thread it became evident that that's not likely because you actually began to speak for yourself instead of repeating the 3ABN party line.

If you want to ask questions, by all means ask them. Ask honest questions and refrain from ad hominem statements. In nearly every post you've made you have either directly or by implication attacked posters on this board instead of "asking questions."

If you'll simmer down and stand back a bit, perhaps you can learn to ask honest questions. And if you wish people to tell you why/how they know certain things and you don't believe them, please be prepared to say why you don't believe. That would result in some fruitful dialogue. Continous attacks on posters here gets you nowhere. It just makes you sound like Danny, and that's not a compliment in these parts.

I have met Danny three times. I have met Linda just as many times. I have no need to support either one. In short I do not have a personal axe to grind.

Sure fooled us on that one!

If you are unable to accept that someone out there in this big wide world doesn't buy what your selling ad infinitum then just ignore my questions and my part in this discussion and focus on those who will not question you. I am surprised that you have a problem with a truth seeker and want to try and frame them so they can't raise pertinent issues and questions.

The problem is not asking questions. The problem is your manner of posting in which you question the integrigy of the posters here, rather than asking honest questions.

As far as being unable to accept that "someone out there" doesn't believe what is presented here, we're certainly well aware of it. Dan, Walt Thompson and John Lomacang, among others are doing a fine job of putting out "information" to tell the world that this is all a bunch of lies and that Danny is God's man, while Linda is on the level of Lucifer (insinuated by Walt Thompson).

We are very much aware that ours is a minority position. You are, of course, with the majority, so you must be right.

Once again, if you'll get off your high horse and start asking thoughtful questions, you'll get worthwhile responses. Acting like Danny here won't cut it ...

This post has been edited by inga: Aug 12 2006, 12:55 AM

[inga]

Those that know me know that one thing I can’t stand is whiners. Get the chip off your shoulder. I am tired reading of you being tired of how you are treated because you are in the minority on this subject or being rousted as you put it. You knew the vocal members on this subject where pro Linda supports before you started posting here. If you don’t think BSDA is open enough for you then leave. But I am not going to listen to you whining about my house.

You got points to make, then make them and be prepared to defend them. That’s all that’s needed.

BTW, you got a seat at the table as long as I allow you to have the seat.

You said it, Calvin!

Of course, if you don't allow "fallible" to continue posting his whining, he'll say that we couldn't take his asking questions.

PS Man, oh man, this "fallible" poster sure acts like a Danny plant, even if he isn't one!

[inga]

Thanks, Beartrap.

I enjoy these quotes of yours.

Me too! And your parables/analogies are good too!

[Clay]

DF,

I can't speak for anyone but myself. Yes, I am. Does that mean I agree with you, well it seems here that if I don't I am in line to be impuned. I don't come down on one side or the other - do I lean one way or the other, yes probably. At this point I will not take a stand either way.

It seems to me that if those here are desirous of me believing them they wouldn't resort to the tactics that always arise in discussion threads to drive out those who don't "agree."

There isn't a right or wrong way to seek the truth other than these two things:

A. Request the guidence of the Holy Spirit.

B. Ask questions until they are all answered.

Oh yes, and don't be afraid of the bravado.

- fallible

no need to claim something that is not true... you can agree or disagree... there is no party line here, so discuss away.... perhaps you can begin at the beginning and answer this simple question.... does spiritual adultery exist and is it grounds for divorce?

[fallible humanbe...]

Inga,

Have I been on a high horse - maybe so . . . but that could be a product of trying to convince many that I am not a lapdog of either side, and certainly not Danny or any of the other prominent individuals you mention. Defensive, yes. Out to defame, no.

Okay my first problem here is the novella "The Televangalist." Why is it that what Linda's camp claims is the truth has to be presented this way? If the truth is the truth then why is the author afraid to spell it out line by line with his own name and within the context of a forthright expose. I am not convinced by fiction - and though there may be truth buried in there, it is still fiction.

Don't you grow tired of the spin masters - from both sides of the issue? Yes, I want 3ABN to lay their evidence on the table. I believe it will be substantial and supported - a gut instinct. (and to be honest I find a need to defend myself in advance from those who will condescend because I don't have "fact" - while many have indicated rejecting me out of hand through comments like smelling a rat . . . should I just ignore that and let it go, maybe). I honestly believe that each party in the end of a marriage is "guilty." No situation like this is ever the fault of a single party. An affair, whether with a person, a job, alcohol, drugs, gambling is always a symptom of much deeper and more serious problems with in the relationship. One can leave a marriage long before they file the offical documents - this can be through any of the above or simply abject neglect of the responsibility they have to nurture the relationship - this would include (if it proves in the end to be true) spending lenghty hours on the phone to an individual not your spouse.

I had to smile when you said I am in the majority. Based on the past two days I can't say I agree with that while I am here. But I suspected that in advance.

I would like to know the exact citation where you claim Dr. Thompson equated Linda to Lucifer. In my book Danny is a man. Do I believe God has reached souls through him, absolutely. Do I believe that God reached souls through Linda, just as assuredly. But, I don't think He is having much success right now reaching any one through either of them. When I read the two documents here The Televangalist and The Unofficial History - I sense vindictiveness, this raises red flags. So, I find a skepticism about arguments based on these writings.

I do take issue with the quick run to see every action at 3ABN as rife with evil intent. For instance Danny's decision to take a break from the rigors of 3ABN. It seems to me that had I been in his shoes I would be emotionally, mentally, physically exhausted and my spiritual life stretched to the breaking point. Is it at all possible that he is just tired and needs a break? Yes, yes, yes, I know the other argument is just as possible - but why even speculate, why don't those of us on the outside sit back and see where things go. Personally I think he is exhasuted and needs a break. If solid, irrefutable evidence surfaces to contrary I will accept that.

What other evidence is there, solid, incontrivertable evidence that Danny was engaged in inapproprate behavior with a minor? Other than the words of an faceless, nameless few. Site me line and verse is all I am asking. Point me to a document gathered by an impartial party that substantiates this. Not, because so and so said it was true.

Can you clear the murky water?

- fallible

You're familiar with the tactics, and you are using them against posters on this forum.

Again, you appear to be projecting your own tactics on others.

In your first post you were so obviously spewing Shelton rhetoric that some of us supposed you might be a Shelton alter ego. In another thread it became evident that that's not likely because you actually began to speak for yourself instead of repeating the 3ABN party line.

If you want to ask questions, by all means ask them. Ask honest questions and refrain from ad hominem statements. In nearly every post you've made you have either directly or by implication attacked posters on this board instead of "asking questions."

If you'll simmer down and stand back a bit, perhaps you can learn to ask honest questions. And if you wish people to tell you why/how they know certain things and you don't believe them, please be prepared to say why you don't believe. That would result in some fruitful dialogue. Continous attacks on posters here gets you nowhere. It just makes you sound like Danny, and that's not a compliment in these parts.

Sure fooled us on that one! The problem is not asking questions. The problem is your manner of posting in which you question the integrigy of the posters here, rather than asking honest questions.

As far as being unable to accept that "someone out there" doesn't believe what is presented here, we're certainly well aware of it. Dan, Walt Thompson and John Lomacang, among others are doing a fine job of putting out "information" to tell the world that this is all a bunch of lies and that Danny is God's man, while Linda is on the level of Lucifer (insinuated by Walt Thompson).

We are very much aware that ours is a minority position. You are, of course, with the majority, so you must be right.

Once again, if you'll get off your high horse and start asking thoughtful questions, you'll get worthwhile responses. Acting like Danny here won't cut it ...

[Clay]

Okay here is a question:

Does this area of your discussion board see itself as the heir aparent to the reign at 3ABN?

Another:

Has it ever been presented here that this forum will bring down 3ABN and replaced it with a Linda run entity? Or that it has the power to do so?

Another:

Where does this group derive it's authority to lay claim to the reigns at 3ABN?

One last question - don't you want this to be an open discussion? Or is this a one sided discussion board - meaing can no one come in and disagree or at least be skeptical?

- fallible

fallible change your name to clueless... in all the threads here about 3abn, not one (and I have read them all, even started a few) no one has talked about bringing down 3abn and replacing it with something run by Linda..... alternatives to 3abn have been discussed, including having a black 3abn, did you see that thread?

As for your other... be skeptical to your heart's content, but the more you post the more I think you have left home without your sign..... let me check I think we can get you some cheese and crackers to go with that "whine."

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

I have read with interest the discussion about this issue. When it first arose I looked for sources on the issue and ran a google search - and was amazed that the quantity of people talking about this very subject.

I am still working on this one, but the concept seems plausible. The idea of laying with the world instead of God is a metaphorical concept I can agree with. I think of the call to be in the world but not of it. If we lust after the world and the glitter it has to offer is our heart given to another that isn't our Savior? It isn't to much of a stretch to see the concept of spiritual adultery as having credence.

Now, the hard part of your question. Is it grounds for divorce? That seems to be a sticky wicket - from a hard and fast interpretation of the Scriptures there seems to be little if any reason to divorce. But, what about in situations of abuse or total neglect? Are there any reasons for divorce outside of the act of physical infidelity? What about lusting within your heart - you can make a claim (Biblically supported) that this is infidelity and viable cause for divorce. I don't know if spiritual adultery is cause or not - I haven't studied enough to make the decision.

Here is where we have a he said/she said moment. Who wanted the divorce and how do we truly know for sure. Who was there at each moment to know for sure who wanted it and who didn't. Who was truly fighting to save the marriage and who wasn't?

- fallible

no need to claim something that is not true... you can agree or disagree... there is no party line here, so discuss away.... perhaps you can begin at the beginning and answer this simple question.... does spiritual adultery exist and is it grounds for divorce?

[Clay]

Clay,

I have read with interest the discussion about this issue. When it first arose I looked for sources on the issue and ran a google search - and was amazed that the quantity of people talking about this very subject.

I am still working on this one, but the concept seems plausible. The idea of laying with the world instead of God is a metaphorical concept I can agree with. I think of the call to be in the world but not of it. If we lust after the world and the glitter it has to offer is our heart given to another that isn't our Savior? It isn't to much of a stretch to see the concept of spiritual adultery as having credence.

Now, the hard part of your question. Is it grounds for divorce? That seems to be a sticky wicket - from a hard and fast interpretation of the Scriptures there seems to be little if any reason to divorce. But, what about in situations of abuse or total neglect? Are there any reasons for divorce outside of the act of physical infidelity? What about lusting within your heart - you can make a claim (Biblically supported) that this is infidelity and viable cause for divorce. I don't know if spiritual adultery is cause or not - I haven't studied enough to make the decision.

Here is where we have a he said/she said moment. Who wanted the divorce and how do we truly know for sure. Who was there at each moment to know for sure who wanted it and who didn't. Who was truly fighting to save the marriage and who wasn't?

- fallible

okay here is my position, it has remained unchanged since I first became aware of this mess.... spiritual adultery there is no such animal.... people have a difficult time proving actual adultery without physical evidence.... spiritual adultery would be impossible to prove...

More importantly, even IF Linda was guilty of everything she was accused of, as a christian Mr. Shelton should have NEVER treated her as he did... to what am I referring? The gag order, and the trashing of her reputation and the systematic attempt to prevent her from seeking employment.... those are actions of a petty and insecure person...

[beartrap]

Once upon a time under the shadow of Mount St. Helens, there unfolded a tragedy. The mountain began to steam and a portion swelled. The US Geological Survey warned the governor of Washington state that a certain square mileage around the mountain should be manditorily evacuated as the mountain was soon going to blow. She consulted with the industries that operated within the recommended evacuation area, and they required the truth. All of these speculations and rumors being spread by the so-called "experts" were surely a bunch of self serving pronouncements that were meant to harm the industries that were the life life-blood of the local areas.

Certain experts said that there was no real proof that anything would happen that would affect those areas, and the "unbiased" people who wanted to know the "truth" had found their "truth." The truth that they had been seeking. The mountain exploded and caused damage far worse than even the most pesemistic USGS scientists had thought. Many people were killed as an enormous area was destroyed by the flood waters that resulted from the instant melting of the ice and snow on Mount St. Helens. The "truth" sought by the local industry people, and by the governor... the "truth" that that was found in the agreement of those who chose to disregard the USGS warning cost many lives. The "truth sought by the "unbiased" industry and government people was conveniently truthful intil the mountain blew.

Convenience truth-seekers see the truth where they know it will be, and where it will mean the most to them. The so-called experts are nothing more than people who are attempting to deprive the industry of its revenues, whether they be dollars, or an increase in church membership.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Aug 12 2006, 01:52 AM

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

Okay, the first item you mentioned. The "gag" order. Was this tied to the severance package she accepted? And, didn't it only cover the time during which the severance was being paid? I think that time is up - or at least close to it. Did Linda willingly of her own volition sign these documents? Did she have -any- legal council before she did, any at all? Did she avail herself of legal guidence?

I have heard from others the answers to these questions - I am looking for them to be answered here.

Additionally, is there factual, hard evidence that anyone from 3ABN has ever been on this site and disparged Linda? ANd if so, how was this determined?

- fallible

okay here is my position, it has remained unchanged since I first became aware of this mess.... spiritual adultery there is no such animal.... people have a difficult time proving actual adultery without physical evidence.... spiritual adultery would be impossible to prove...

More importantly, even IF Linda was guilty of everything she was accused of, as a christian Mr. Shelton should have NEVER treated her as he did... to what am I referring? The gag order, and the trashing of her reputation and the systematic attempt to prevent her from seeking employment.... those are actions of a petty and insecure person...

[Clay]

Clay,

Okay, the first item you mentioned. The "gag" order. Was this tied to the severance package she accepted? And, didn't it only cover the time during which the severance was being paid? I think that time is up - or at least close to it. Did Linda willingly of her own volition sign these documents? Did she have -any- legal council before she did, any at all? Did she avail herself of legal guidence?

I have heard from others the answers to these questions - I am looking for them to be answered here.

Additionally, is there factual, hard evidence that anyone from 3ABN has ever been on this site and disparged Linda? ANd if so, how was this determined?

- fallible

you haven't addressed my issue at all.... deal with this statement first.... even IF she did everything she was accused of, she shouldn't have been treated as she was...

the logical question should be, how should she have been treated? you did not ask that but instead have chosen to go down the blame the victim road..... here's your sign....