Fallible's questions regarding 3ABN, his observations and skepticism Options

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

Point two. The trashing of Linda's reputation. If Danny or any other did this, does it justfy a like response? Let's say it is all true - every last bit of it from both sides. Who is more right in their attacks? Danny, Linda, neither?

No one deserves to have their reputation impuned. But didn't Gandhi say, "An eye for an eye making the whole world blind."? If Danny makes a claim against Linda, should she address it or ignore it? And, if Linda makes a claim against Danny should he address it or ignore it?

Am I to believe that Linda has never spoken ill of Danny to anyone, of significance or otherwise?

- fallible

okay here is my position, it has remained unchanged since I first became aware of this mess.... spiritual adultery there is no such animal.... people have a difficult time proving actual adultery without physical evidence.... spiritual adultery would be impossible to prove...

More importantly, even IF Linda was guilty of everything she was accused of, as a christian Mr. Shelton should have NEVER treated her as he did... to what am I referring? The gag order, and the trashing of her reputation and the systematic attempt to prevent her from seeking employment.... those are actions of a petty and insecure person...

[Clay]

Clay,

Point two. The trashing of Linda's reputation. If Danny or any other did this, does it justfy a like response? Let's say it is all true - every last bit of it from both sides. Who is more right in their attacks? Danny, Linda, neither?

No one deserves to have their reputation impuned. But didn't Gandhi say, "An eye for an eye making the whole world blind."? If Danny makes a claim against Linda, should she address it or ignore it? And, if Linda makes a claim against Danny should he address it or ignore it?

Am I to believe that Linda has never spoken ill of Danny to anyone, of significance or otherwise?

- fallible

address this basic statement, which you have yet to do.... even IF she did everything she was accused of, she should not have been treated as she was... and how should she have been treated by her husband soon to be ex-husband?

Here is a clue....

Mat 5:38-46 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' (39) But I say to you not to resist an evil person. But whoever shall slap you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. (40) And to the one desiring to sue you and to take your tunic, let him have your cloak also. (41) And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. (42) Give to the one asking you, and to the one desiring to borrow from you, do not turn away. (43) "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and you shall hate your enemy.' (44) But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, (45) so that you may prove to be sons of your Father in heaven; because He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and He sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (46) For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

she should not have been treated as she was.... bottomline.... now you can dance around that basic fact, but it remains... she should NOT have been treated as she was.... deal with that.... do you agree or not?

This post has been edited by Clay: Aug 12 2006, 02:04 AM

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

I think you have mistaken my questions as statements - I am asking your take on this, your "side" if you will. I didn't blame the victim, I asked a series of questions I would like this side of the issue to answer for me from their perspective and sources of information.

If Linda was guilty of all she has been accused of this would include actions which are grounds for divorce. In this case could she really have stayed at 3ABN? Or would 3ABN have been divied up as part of the divorce settlement. If she did commit adultry then removal from 3ABN seems appropriate. Being attacked - certainly not, but then the attacks on Danny don't stand the test either.

Also, your last point involved efforts to keep Linda from seeking employment (you did say seeking, but to clarify - do you mean seeking or gaining). Isn't she continuing with her musical ministry? Of course 3ABN claims they haven't stood in her way of pursuing her ministry or gaining employment. To date, what employment has she lost as a direct result of 3ABN stepping in the way and keeping her from seeking employment.

- fallible

you haven't addressed my issue at all.... deal with this statement first.... even IF she did everything she was accused of, she shouldn't have been treated as she was...

the logical question should be, how should she have been treated? you did not ask that but instead have chosen to go down the blame the victim road..... here's your sign....

[Clay]

Clay,

I think you have mistaken my questions as statements - I am asking your take on this, your "side" if you will. I didn't blame the victim, I asked a series of questions I would like this side of the issue to answer for me from their perspective and sources of information.

If Linda was guilty of all she has been accused of this would include actions which are grounds for divorce. In this case could she really have stayed at 3ABN? Or would 3ABN have been divied up as part of the divorce settlement. If she did commit adultry then removal from 3ABN seems appropriate. Being attacked - certainly not, but then the attacks on Danny don't stand the test either.

Also, your last point involved efforts to keep Linda from seeking employment (you did say seeking, but to clarify - do you mean seeking or gaining). Isn't she continuing with her musical ministry? Of course 3ABN claims they haven't stood in her way of pursuing her ministry or gaining employment. To date, what employment has she lost as a direct result of 3ABN stepping in the way and keeping her from seeking employment.

- fallible

I asked you a basic question which you have yet to answer.... answer it.... even IF she did everything she was accused of, how should she have been treated?

Your answering my questions with questions will simply make me restate my question until you answer it... and we can do this all night if you wish....

[Panama_Pete]

I would like to know the exact citation where you claim Dr. Thompson equated Linda to Lucifer. - fallible

Actually, we're not "claiming" anything. This isn't a courtroom. But to answer your question....

That would be Walter Thompson's letter of April, 2006, which is available on this Web site. I am providing the link to that letter. At the link, just scroll down to the Thompson letter.

I am also providing the direct quote from Dr. Thompson. I've even got the word "Lucifer" in red for you. Sure looks like the word "Lucifer" to me -- as in Satan, himself. And then, you will see the phrase, "Experiences such as this with Linda," also is in red for you.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10128

God lost one of his closest companions
when Lucifer went astray. More than that, myriads more angels
left with him when he left heaven. Talk about grief or
emotional pain. Experiences such as this with Linda, I think,
help us to understand the pain of loss....

Now, imagine that someone said this about you to people on the 3ABN mailing list. How would you feel?

You need to actually read the letters and the other information on this Web site. It's all there for you if you'll just take the time to read it all. I can see that you're asking questions that have already been answered on this site.

Pete

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Aug 12 2006, 05:30 AM

[Clay]

Clay,

I think you have mistaken my questions as statements - I am asking your take on this, your "side" if you will. I didn't blame the victim, I asked a series of questions I would like this side of the issue to answer for me from their perspective and sources of information.

If Linda was guilty of all she has been accused of this would include actions which are grounds for divorce. In this case could she really have stayed at 3ABN? Or would 3ABN have been divied up as part of the divorce settlement. If she did commit adultry then removal from 3ABN seems appropriate. Being attacked - certainly not, but then the attacks on Danny don't stand the test either.

Also, your last point involved efforts to keep Linda from seeking employment (you did say seeking, but to clarify - do you mean seeking or gaining). Isn't she continuing with her musical ministry? Of course 3ABN claims they haven't stood in her way of pursuing her ministry or gaining employment. To date, what employment has she lost as a direct result of 3ABN stepping in the way and keeping her from seeking employment.

- fallible

Let me share with you why the first question I have posed to you, that you refuse to or choose not to answer is so crucial in the development of this story.....

It starts right here....

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

Now if Mr. Shelton loved her, then what should his actions have been? How should he have treated Linda? answer that one question, in fact it has to be answered before we can continue or even if we continue....

To me, if he loved her, he would have found a way to handle this without everyone being all in their business... he would have arranged it so that even if they parted ways no one would think ill of her and that she would be gainfully employed even if she wasn't at 3abn....

So start there fallible.....

This post has been edited by Clay: Aug 12 2006, 02:46 AM

[fallible humanbe...]

Pete,

I began my reading with the two letters as they were at the top of the forum.

I think that your claim that the letter insinuates or even directly associates Linda with Lucifer is weak. The quote makes a point of the pain God experience at the lose of Lucifer and then suggests that all those involved might understand lose like this a little more clearly because of what happened with Danny and Linda. He references directly the issue of pain and grief which the whole lot of them experienced during that upheaveal. The connection is not drawn between Lucifer and Linda, but rather between the pain God experienced and the pain Danny, Linda, their family and friends experienced as a result of the divorce.

"God lost one of his closest companions
when Lucifer went astray. More than that, myriads more angels
left with him when he left heaven. Talk about grief or
emotional pain. Experiences such as this with Linda, I think,
help us to understand the pain of loss, and the reality of the
war between God and Satan. "

- fallible

Actually, we're not "claiming" anything. This isn't a courtroom. But to answer your question....

That would be Walter Thompson's letter of April, 2006, which is available on this Web site. I am providing the link to that letter. At the link, just scroll down to the Thompson letter.

I am also providing the direct quote from Dr. Thompson. I've even got the word "Lucifer" in red for you. Sure looks like the word "Lucifer" to me -- as in Satan, himself. And then, you will see the phrase, "Experiences such as this with Linda," also is in red for you.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10128
Now, imagine that someone said this about you via e-mail to, apparently, 180,000 people on the 3ABN e-mail mailing list. How would you feel?

You need to actually read the letters and the other information on this Web site. It's all there for you if you'll just take the time to read it all. I can see that you're asking questions that have already been answered on this site.

Pete

[Clay]

fallible it is becoming apparent to me what your nickname should be.....

provocateur:

1. somebody representing another: somebody who officially represents somebody else in business
2. somebody providing service: somebody who provides a particular service for another
a travel agent

3. U.S. government employee: an investigator or representative employed by a government or other organization
a federal agent

4. causative substance: something such as a chemical substance, organism, or natural force that causes an effect
a cleansing agent

5. means effecting result: the means by which an effect or result is produced
As C.E.O. you will be expected to be the main agent of change.

6. spy: a spy or agent provocateur (informal)
7. computer program for routine tasks: a computer program that works automatically on routine tasks such as sorting e-mail or gathering information

and why do I say this? You have picked and chosen the responses you will comment on.... ignoring my basic question.... and that speaks volumes.... have a good evening/morning...

This post has been edited by Clay: Aug 12 2006, 02:59 AM

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

At some point there I thought it was obvious that I agreed no one deserves the treatment that Linda recieved (assuming all the accusations are valid and verified), in the same vein Danny hasn't deserved what has happened to him.

- fallible (or whatever you decide to call me, it doesn't matter)

fallible it is becoming apparent to me what your nickname should be.....

provocateur:

and why do I say this? You have picked and chosen the responses you will comment on.... ignoring my basic question.... and that speaks volumes.... have a good evening/morning...

[Panama_Pete]

Pete,

I began my reading with the two letters as they were at the top of the forum.

I think that your claim that the letter insinuates or even directly associates Linda with Lucifer is weak. - fallible

Thompson says, and I quote. "Experiences such as this with Linda." That's called equating.

This was your question: "I would like to know the exact citation where you claim Dr. Thompson equated Linda to Lucifer."

Dictionary definition of equate:

"To correspond."


You're just upset because the quote is actually there. You asked the question because you thought the quote was not around anywhere. And you thought wrong. Now you have to deny that it exists. So sad.

Pete

[fallible humanbe...]

Pete,

I had no doubt you would provide me with a quote. Not upset at all - just disagree with your interpretation.

The experience "such as this" refers to the expereince of the pain and grief from the ongoing upheaveal of the divorce. The correpsondence is between the pain of lose God expereinced when all those beings He loved dearly had to leave heaven and the pain everyone has felt from the ongoing experience of this situation at 3ABN.

I didn't deny its existance at all. I disagreed with your interpretation.

- fallible

Thompson says, and I quote. "Experiences such as this with Linda." That's called equating.

This was your question: "I would like to know the exact citation where you claim Dr. Thompson equated Linda to Lucifer."

Dictionary definition of equate:

"To correspond."
You're just upset because the quote is actually there. You asked the question because you thought the quote was not around anywhere. And you thought wrong. Now you have to deny that it exists. So sad.

Pete

[Panama_Pete]

Pete,

I had no doubt you would provide me with a quote. Not upset at all - just disagree with your interpretation.

The experience "such as this" refers to the expereince of the pain and grief from the ongoing upheaveal of the divorce. The correpsondence is between the pain of lose God expereinced when all those beings He loved dearly had to leave heaven and the pain everyone has felt from the ongoing experience of this situation at 3ABN.

I didn't deny its existance at all. I disagreed with your interpretation.

- fallible

Well, of course you had doubts there would be a quote. That's the only reason you asked for the "exact" location in the first place.

As for the quote, please read it again. It doesn't say "experience," as you say it says. Your eyes are seeing a word that is not there in order to find your interpretation that is not there.

It says "experiences such as this." Experiences is plural. That refers to the experiences -- or events -- of Lucifer and his evil angels leaving heaven and Linda Shelton and those who supported her leaving 3ABN. That's where the equating takes place.

Thompson says. "Experiences such as this with Linda, I think, help us to understand the pain of loss."

Dr. Thompson does not say the experiences are the pain. He clearly says the experiences "help us to understand" the pain of loss. You're just plain wrong with your interpretation. And you need eyeglasses, too.

[watchbird]

fallible it is becoming apparent to me what your nickname should be.....

provocateur:

and why do I say this? You have picked and chosen the responses you will comment on.... ignoring my basic question.... and that speaks volumes.... have a good evening/morning...

Thanks Clay.......
I have a few more "nicknames" to suggest....... distractor............ obfuscator......... shin kicker............ hijacker.............
And give me a few more minutes and I could probably come up with some more........


Evidence?......... He has taken two threads completely .....
....................... He has waltzed (pun intended) around the room kicking shins right and left .... not even limiting himself to those who have responded to him.
....................... He has shown by his posting that he doesn't even understand the difference between a question and a challenge.
....................... He has not taken his challenges to the threads where those topics are being discussed, so that someone responding to him can refer back to the posts which have already addressed the issue he is dragging out like road kill and flinging in our faces.
....................... He has thrown multiple challenges out at the same time, thus showing himself to be a true blue, died in the wool (actually that is a not an applicable metaphor ... but don't know the kiwi words for wool from sheep who are born that color), expert, well polished and experienced manipulator!

That's it! ....... that's the general term that covers all of the above .... so I propose as his nickname......

falible manipulator


Now please BSDA admins (blessings on your whole tribe) ... won't you please ... ... rescue the two threads that fm has hijacked........ ( as you have done in the past when things moved off topic)........ by moving all of the ............. and just plain posts to a new thread ...... (I started to suggest a name, but decided against it....... it was too appropriate) so that we can get back to Sister's intended purpose for this thread, and also back to the subject that Brother Bill raised in his thread having to do with Trust Services.

Thanks much....... in advance. You've been so kind to do this on other occasions. ................ .............

[Nuggie]

A last note - yes, if those who claim to have "been there" added their identity to their claims (either here in this board or outside of this board) it would add credence to their claims - as of now they still contain that hole of identity.

My identity - I am not making claims, not making accusations, not pointing fingers. I want some answers to the questions in my mind.

I respect your right to be skeptical, as I often am. In this case you can choose to believe what you want. I do not judge you. I am quite comfortable saying that this is not a "he said/she said" situation because it absolutely is not. I don't expect you to believe me, as that is not my goal.
Can you let us know what specific issues, point by point, you are having trouble with in this or other discussion threads?

Definition of hypocrisy: 1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

You want others to identify themselves, but you won't. You said you're not making claimsk, accusations, or pointing fingers, but you are. Put up or shut up.

AT,

As I mentioned before - this tired routine of trying to roust me because I don't agree isn't going to work. I want the truth - and if I don't believe you it isn't my job to tell you why. I have heard much from both sides and this area seems to feel they have a perponderance of the Linda side of the story - so here I am reading and asking questions. Why do you feel threatened because I refuse to jump when you ask.

Interesting that I have to go through the hazing in order to be given a chance to ask questions - but I will and I will ask the questions I seek answers to - don't bother responding if you are threatened my reticence to just accept as truth what is here - simply because it is here. If it the truth it will be come evident and I will add it to what I have heard other places.

I don't have to refute anything at this point because I haven't done anything other than say I am skeptical - and rightly so, as anyone should be in a he said/she said situation. I don't believe I will find the truth in one place - but will find what is available by going to each place it is being discussed and asking questions - then and only then making a decision for myself.

Sorry, the seat is mine - and if I lean over and ask you what the teacher just said, are you going to turn away from me becasue I didn't agree with you on some point? Is this a discussion, a place to seek truth, or a place only the "faithful believers" come and preach to the choir?

In His Service,

- fallible

Are you serious? Here's where you're wrong and clueless...nobody's trying to oust you just because you ask questions or disagree. But, you need to do more than throw some words around! If you come on here and start disagreeing with everything then you DO have an obligation to show proof or expect to be challenged. Surely you can't be that naive.

[watchbird]

fallible change your name to clueless... in all the threads here about 3abn, not one (and I have read them all, even started a few) no one has talked about bringing down 3abn and replacing it with something run by Linda..... alternatives to 3abn have been discussed, including having a black 3abn, did you see that thread?

As for your other... be skeptical to your heart's content, but the more you post the more I think you have left home without your sign..... let me check I think we can get you some cheese and crackers to go with that "whine."

I won't repeat all that I said about this on the other thread this guy has hijacked...... but I will repeat my call for this thread as well as Sister's thread be cleansed from all of the posts and the posts generated since fallible materialized amongst us .... and that they be placed in a separate thread.

See my comments on Sister's thread, "Who is it?" for details. Though I'll add one thing here. In my comments there I had said I would not suggest a name for the new thread....... but, inspired by PrincessDrRe, I insert one word into the one that had occurred to me then, and venture to suggest it ..... "Fallible's padded playpen"........ ...... oh yeah ... include a blanky ......... he obviously needs one...... poor thing.