The Dreams & Visions Concerning 3abn, A short letter from Barbara Kerr Options

[Denny]

I have had dreams about people it happens rarely I've had impression not to go certain places -

Jul 2005 bombing I was impressed to drive to work rather than take the train I was standing at the bustop, I crossed over the road and drove when I go to work I heard that the of the two train lines I could have taken both had been bombed......believe it or not

Kings Cross fire, late 1980's Northern line burnt to cinders many people died, this is the station I normally changed at and the line that would take me home. I felt impressed to stay on another line when I got to the station and not to get off the train. My mind actually said I feel too lazy to take the Norhern line. When I go home I heard of the fire, I was very shaken cos even my mother knew the Northen line was one of my normal routes.

I believe the Holy Sprit impressed my lazy self to take the 'lazy' option on both occassions- I praise Him!

[inga]

Watchbird is a skeptic, and I suppose that it may take her a very long time to understand what some of us feel differently about. There is need to be cautious but the Scriptures also tell us that God's ways are not our ways nor His thoughts, our thoughts.

It is true that God's ways are not our ways, but He acts consistent with Himself and His revelations in Scripture.

And it also tells us that you will hear a voice telling you "this is the way, walk in it." The Scriptures also speak of the gifts of the word of knowledge and the word of prophecy which we hardly hear about in SDAism today but there are some godly, very godly SDAs with these gifts whom God has used to help others.

The Lord has also revealed to us that in the end times there will be three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (Rev 16:13) Adventists have long identified these as the evidence of demonic activity bringing the various religious factions of the world together through charismatic manifestations. It was many decades ago that the "tongues" manifestations sought to infiltrate the Adventist church through "friendly" means, but was largely unsuccessful. Now we see more subtle means, but the spirit is the same. This in no way casts aspersion on those who are approached by these spirits. They are usually honest, dedicated and, yes, conservative Adventists. It is thus that the spirits are most likely to be successful.

Let us consider why they would like us to believe in them. After all, most revelations, dreams and visions are quite harmless. Healings are beneficial. So where's the danger?

But what happens when we learn to depend on these revelations, dreams and visions because they have always "come true"? Are we not then ready to be deceived because we no longer question the source? When healings accompany such manifestations, we reason that surely this must be of the Lord.

Yet we are told that devils work miracles. ...

We are told to try the spirits and see whether they be of God and to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. Let us do just that by God's grace.

Ah, yes, that's exactly it!

And what evidence to we have that these dreams and visions are of God?

Are they accurate, giving the correct view of the matter?

"Linda left Danny."

Is that really true. Did Linda leave Danny, or was she forced out?

Does God speak the truth? Do demons lie?

“3ABN will be the instrument I will use to bring billions to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, but when the redeemed get to heaven and search for their 3ABN family, they will discover that they are only ashes under their feet.”

3ABN will be the instrumet to bring billions to know the Lord Jesus?

That sounds to me like an encouragement to trust in an institution, a TV network, to get the job done. I question this for several reasons:
1) God has made it clear that He wants you and me to each tell someone --not to expect "the church" or the pastor or 3ABN to do the job for us.
2) This focus on a particular institution sets people up for a fall when the institution goes wrong. Perhaps this sets the "believer" up to fall for the Pentecostal metamorphosis of 3ABN. Who knows, but it surely does not "fit" with the way God usually acts.
3) The language is just too much like the sensational utterings of spirits we know to be false..

By contrast, the vision Ellen White had of the "finishing of the work" was one of 'the servants of God, with their faces lighted up going from door to door" -- IOW, it was personal work. She saw God's people meeting people face to face, not sending money to a TV network! (That does not mean that we should not also support TV programs that are truly giving God's message.)

Furthermore, there seems to be no real purpose for these dreams and visions other than to arouse/satisfy curiosity and stir up excitement. There is no biblical precedent for this. Neither is there precedent for this in the ministry of Ellen White.

There is plenty of precedent for this in psychic phenomena.

I have a friend who has the "gift" of psychic insight. He may receive dreams or visions, or simply "see" things in broad daylight. He didn't want the "gift" when he was young, but it didn't go away. He subsequently used it for good purposes. However, those who know him find that his "seeing" has around a 50% accuracy rate. Is that the Lord's best score?

I concluded that this "gift" is not of the Lord, and from his family history, I have some idea why he is thus afflicted. "The devil has desired to have thee," one could say to him, as Christ did to Peter. He has "had" much of his family in the past, and he hates to let anyone go. My friend is sincere in his love for Jesus. He has quit giving psychic readings, even though he was in financial straits and it was the easiest way to make money. I pray that some day the Lord will give him total clarity on the subject ..

“I will raise Linda up like the Phoenix from the ashes."
This does not sound like the language of God to me. He is not indebted to symbols invented by His archenemy.

Somehow this reminds me of the days of my youth when the Ouija board was popular among teenagers. I was totally naive and tried it with them at their urging. It refused to move with my fingers on it, and no one could figure out why because it "performed" so well otherwise. There have always been cliques and feuds among teenage girls, and so it was then. By the time the Ouija board told my best friends/worst enemies that they were to be "nice to me," I had figured out what made the Ouija board move, and it scared me to have it speak well of me ...

It should frighten Linda that this "I" (spirit) promises to raise her up like the Phoenix. May she be spared the entanglement that this forebodes! I pray that she may cling humbly to Jesus.

The Phoenix myth can be traced back to ancient Egypt. It is one of the sacred symbols of worship at Heliopolis, closely associated with the rising sun and the Egyptian sun-god Ra, who is a counterfeit of the true Creator God, just like Sunday is a counterfeit of the true Sabbath memorial of creation and promis of salvation.

The Phoenix symbol became absorbed into corrupt Christianity as a symbol of Christ's death and resurrection just as the day of the sun became absorbed into Christianity as the counterfeit Sabbath.

Do you really still wonder about the source of these dreams?

"She will be bigger and better than she could ever imagine. She will be surprised. It will be quick and soon. This will be with or without Danny’s help. Danny cannot stop her."

Isn't this just the very thing that an unwary Linda might want? Isn't this the very temptation that Satan offered to Christ Himself -- if He would only bow down?! Isn't this very much akin to Lucifer's aspirations in heaven?

Beware, Linda, beware!

God does not tempt His children thus. He does not promise this kind of greatness, though the televangelists often do.

I believe that Linda was separated from 3ABN by the providence of God, though she surely did not see this at the time. But Satan does not let go easily, and he would dearly love to draw her back into the same tangled web from which she escaped.

It also seems that God allowed you, Barbara, to be separated from 3ABN so as not to be associated with the evil that goes on there. Thank God and trust Him to lead you in safe paths through His Word and that still, small voice, that is like a "voice behind you saying, 'This is the way, walk you in it," without the aid of dreams and visions.

Barbara, I appreciate your attitude.

I do too. And I do not question the sincerity and dedication of the woman who had these dreams, but if I could talk to her presonally, I would like to warn her that she is under attack by the enemy of Christ. But if she will put her faith and trust in Him and His Word, rather than in visions and dreams, she will be safe.

Blessings,
Inge Anderson

This post has been edited by inga: Aug 17 2006, 06:22 AM

[inga]

Hi Denny,

What you describe below and what similar examples which others have described in other posts is what I believe is fairly typical of how the Holy Spirit impresses people. The impressions/messages were directly for you and not about what was going to happen to someone else.

God has, throughout history, chosen individuals to act as His spokesmen, giving messages from Him to and about others. But in all the history of the world, there have been relatively few of these. And He always acts consistent with His character and previous revelations.

We are to "test the spirits," and by the tests that I applied in a previous post, the spirits who gave these dreams and visions come up wanting.

We are told that "in the last days" the path of truth will lie so close to the path of error that it will be impossible to discern between them, except by the Holy Spirit. I think this applies also to to the "discerning of spirits." Our great need is a daily, living connection with Christ through the Holy Spirit. And Scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit will not speak "of His own" but will make the words of Scriptures clear to us.

As Ellen White counseled us shortly before she died, "I recommend to you the Word of God!" We need to study and pray and cling to Christ by faith, for only thus can we walk safely ... and we will recognize the "voice behind Thee saying this is the way ..." as the voice of God instead of listening to the seductive voice of seducing spirits.

I have had dreams about people it happens rarely I've had impression not to go certain places -

Jul 2005 bombing I was impressed to drive to work rather than take the train I was standing at the bustop, I crossed over the road and drove when I go to work I heard that the of the two train lines I could have taken both had been bombed......believe it or not

Kings Cross fire, late 1980's Northern line burnt to cinders many people died, this is the station I normally changed at and the line that would take me home. I felt impressed to stay on another line when I got to the station and not to get off the train. My mind actually said I feel too lazy to take the Norhern line. When I go home I heard of the fire, I was very shaken cos even my mother knew the Northen line was one of my normal routes.

I believe the Holy Sprit impressed my lazy self to take the 'lazy' option on both occassions- I praise Him!

[justme]

The Psalmist, David, says, "Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against Thee O'God". It is by the Word of God that the Heavens are made.

Was it the Ephesians whom Paul said, "They searched the scriptures daily whether these things were so."?

"Not by power, not by might, but by every Word that proceeds out of the Mouth of God."

It doesn't appear to me that Barbara is giving any special credence to this vision. It looks like she is telling the story that at least another person is quite concerned about 3ABN and is seeking more information. That would be a frightening dream/vision for anyone to have, anyone who cares about the ministry and it's reach.

To belabor the "vision" issue is to circumvent the issue at hand. The issue is not Danny. The issue is not 3ABN. The issue is that each one of us must go straight to the Word of God to hide it in our hearts. We must request that the Holy Spirit of God guide us into all understanding of God's will in our OWN hearts.

There are countless illustrations in the Bible that show that a closer walk with God, through Jesus, led by the Holy Spirit, where people could have taken a better course had they known God's Word better.

"To the Law and to the Testimony. If they speak not according to these, there is no light in them."

Remember that the problems is Satan, not people.

"We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities and powers, and the rulers of the darkness of the world."

So. How do we strengthen our hearts and minds against becoming mislead or mis-directed?

"MY SHEEP Know My Voice." How do His sheep know His voice? By constantly spending time listening to Him, and following what He says! If we hear a voice that tells us to go in a direction that is "not normally what HE says" it may be the voice of a "wolf in sheeps clothing".

Get to know His Written Word very well. Then get to recognize His voice by following His written word. If they match, then LIVE IT and TEST IT. IF it produces the "Fruits" of the Spirit spoken of in Galatians, then you are on the right track. Be consistent. Be faithful. Test everything you hear and see, by holding up the Word of God against it to see if it measures up to God's standards. Let other say and do as they wish. Their experience is not, and cannot, be your experience. What they do or say has nothing to do with you and your God. You must have your own experience with God to get to KNOW HIM. We don't want to hear on the last day,
"Depart from Me. I never knew you!" get to know God intimately, as your best Friend and Constant Companion.

Barb is not now nor has she ever been a proponent of the Pentecostal way of life. This vision she has reported to us is part of the story of 3ABN and Danny and Linda. It is not part of the issues at hand. It is only something someone said to her that caused her to follow-up with Linda and Danny. It eventually opened more dark closets than expected.

Only God knows what He wants Linda to do. It does seem providential that God let Linda be removed from the ministry to preserve her and to protect her. As other ministries have found, loyalty to right principles has it's price, but ultimately the better reward.

How many more "victims" who were fired or driven off will have the courage to speak the truth now?

By the way, (BTW) No one would want to eat moldy bread, but that mold produces penicillin that may save a life. God can make good come out of bad. It is HIS call!

[PrincessDrRe]

....I believe that people do have dreams and that some are from God and would never want to make light of that.

The dream that made many of my friends "believe" -

I dreamed we were getting ready for church. I was quite happy. Most of the time at least two friends would come to my home and "get ready" for church with me (grab a bite to eat, listen to gospel music, etc.) - Anyway - (in my dream) as we were getting ready to leave I was impressed (again-in my dream) to pray - now I know of many SDA's that pray every time they get into their cars. I am not one of them. Sure. I pray allot...but I just don't pray everytime I get into my car...but in my dream this time was different. We all PRAYED.

We then got into the car and took off. (In the dream) as we were driving alone - a white truck (King Cab) ran us off the road and flipped my car. No one was hurt....but I then immediately woke up.

My roomie was already up. I told her about the dream. Now she had "experienced" my dreams before - but wasn't "into" them as much as I was/understood. This time she said we gonna pray right now. We did. Later when I went to pick up two friends - I was about to "tell them" the dream. I then cut myself off. One of them was a big "skeptic" and at times would tease me about my "woo-woo dreamy-power...." Anyway.....

I cut my own self off and didn't say the dream. I just pulled over on the side of the road and we all PRAYED IN THE CAR. We started up again on the road to church. About 5 minutes into the drive a white truck (King Cab) came barreling down the road behind us. I saw him coming and got all the way over on the shoulder of the road. He still CAME VERY CLOSE TO HITTING US. So close that I believe he "bumped" my rear view window on my driver's side.... *(I remember him "bumping" something...but this was almost 10 years ago - and one of the few dreams/interpretations/"come true's" that I didn't "write down" in my journal).

I stopped the car on the side of the road and was about to cry. My friends in the car were upset and were wondering what was wrong with me. My roomie told them of the dream. WE ALL PRAYED AGAIN.

...and I am not a fruity nut. I am however a person that is blessed w/ the GIFT OF DREAMS.

[Clay]

I don't see why people are getting bent out of shape about someone sharing a dream that someone else had... we are not talking about telling the future per se, or a consistent report of "dreams," but one dream..... thus far.... and time will tell with regards to it....

Watchbird I disagree with your interpretation that the passage in Joel was fulfilled at pentecost... John the Revelator was having dreams and visions as he wrote on Patmos...and it may still happen today here and now.....

[denisebyers]

thank you Re'..... I had a dream when my wife was pregnant.... we didn't know the gender of the baby..... the ultrasound didn't show because the baby was turned in a position where you couldn't see..... I had a dream of a little girl, head full of braids, giggling while sitting on a couch.... I told my wife... we did not get another ultrasound, but the baby was a girl..... born with a head full of hair... and eventually that hair was braided... and she often sat on the couch giggling.....

whut?

Neat Clay! On both of my children, I was impressed if he or she was gonna be a boy or girl, then, I had a dream on what they looked like at around 3 years, and sure enough, they looked exactly like they did in the dream! I dreamed my girl looked more like her dad with his eyebrows and blonde hair, and my boy looked like me with darker blonde hair, and my dimples! I thought it was so amazing!

[Denny]

Maybe some Adventist only believe in dreams and visions between the era of 0B.C and EGW's death after that God stopped using this method....unless if was for Sabbath School mission reports of headen lands...... whut?

...Watchbird, I think the aversion towards anything "extraordinary" explains the pentecostal stamp you had on Roger Morneau in another thread. I can see that having the practise of doubting any miracles not read about in the bible or in Ellens biography being from God would lead to such a result.



I find the all out denial and/or rejection of modern day prophecy strange for a denomination that counts a prophet as one of the key founders and at that have modern day prophecy as a fundamental belief (nr 18) and even calls it an identifying mark of itself. Of course one should not accept everything anyone claims to have recieved in a dream or vision or even that anything anyone acctually have recieved in a dream or a vision is from God. But there are sound guidelines for identifying a prophet from God found in the bible that ought to be used, as contrary to shouting 'wolf' at the mere mention of "I have a dream.."



...



oh, ehm,



at the mere mention of "I have a dream from God".



Ralph made a good point conserning the contents of the messages. If the message said that linda left danny and the reality was the very opposite then that would be reason to step back and take a break.



I wonder if part of the devils plan to decieve if possible even the elect may be to make sdas so affraid of anything "pentecostal" that in hard times, God wont be able to fullfill any of his promises without being accused of being the devil. Similar to when Jesus healed a man on the sabbath and was accused of doing the healing by the power of belzebub. If a man would walk into an SDA church this next sabbath being blind and then walk out of the church seeing, lots of church members would (very likely) be freaked out and if this happened at the right/wrong(, depending on how one choose to see it) church the person/s involved in praying for the blind could be facing church dicipline (I believe, havent acctaully seen this happen).

ITA we claim God can do anyhing then we try to limit Him- so sad yet we say we have the truth well its time to stop having and start practising...... perhaps that is why some of Adventist services are so emotionally dead and very high church we afraid of our own God given emotions, of our own shadows- we would probably have put King David out the door with his emotional self.....

I don't question the validity of the other letter Barb wrote...but I have to say that the post about the dreams did give me pause. I'm not saying that God doesn't give people visions, but we have no idea who that woman is--or anything about her. I also felt that the part about Linda being bigger than Danny is not consistant with what God calls His people to be--humble servents. Linda is and has always been a humble servent of God's--and I think that we need to be careful when subscribing to visions that someone has that actually sound quite prideful. Am I making any sense? Also, on a side note, a pheonix is actually a cultic symbol--and I'd have to ask my husband for more details on that--but that is a comment he made after reading the dreams post.

I also believe that for all Linda has gone through, God has a plan and a purpose for her life whose effects will be far reaching to hurting souls for Christ. It will be a ministry that only she can fulfill--just like each of us has a purpose that only we can fulfill. The journeys that we go through--the pains, the joys, etc., all make up who we are in Christ--His molding and making of us for a greater purpose. It's usually a quiet calling--an inner conviction as God speaks to us and enables us to do His bidding.

so how real do you think the animals were in Daniel's and John's vision think you can see them at your local zoo?

[summertime]

You can draw your own conclusions about the dreams. So far everything has come true. I believe we are seeing the fulfillment of the “phoenix” dream right now. With the use of the internet, news travels fast these days. I believe it’s time to restore Linda to her rightful position! The Lord did not bless this woman with 20 years of experience running a network, for her to be idle, and do nothing with her God-given talent.
[/quote]

I want to thank Barbara for taking the time to share with us a letter which told us of her experience at 3ABN. Her letter is first hand, honest, and encouraging. The dreams of the lady is beyond my understanding although I do not discount them as being actual--just what they mean is beyond my understanding at this point. We all need to pray that the purpose of her dreams will be brought to light in the way that God would have them to be used. But I see that Barbara is right that Linda is being restored to her rightful position---a lady who will be delivered from the ugly, untruthful stories that have been told about her. Freeing her from these falsities is restoring Linda to her rightful position. She will, as the truth is told, be respected, loved and able to work for the Lord in helping others who have walked in her shoes ---she will let them know that God cares and will, in the end, redeem those who have been abused and persecuted. Whatever the Lord has in store for Linda will restore her rightful position that will eventually lead her to God's kingdom. Sometime greatness is not in the eyes of the world but in the eyes of God. The rightful position for us all is down on our knees asking God to lead us to where He would have us go.

[princessdi]

Amen, amen, and amen!!!! What is wrong with all of you who are doubting this? Every last one of you believes God used dreams and visions to communicate with His people right up to EGW and the founding of this church, and then you made doctrine from them. Do ya' think He quit after that? So Danny said He had a vision. Do we not believe that satan will also send great signs and wonders as part of our own prophecy doctrine? How mmany times have you ALL heard that satan has a counterfeit for everything God made? Just because you don't see this as a solution? Have you really asked God how He wants this to paly out, or have you just determined who it is going to be? Now, it that is too penecostal for you then I am sorry, because obviously God IS penecostal in the way He communicates to His people. If it is a choice between SDA church doctrine and God's way, you know church doctrine is just out of luck! How can you argue with scripture? God plainly says in the last days this is how he will communicate with His people. These ARE the last days people!

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. Joel 2:28, 29



Repeated again in Acts 2:17, 18

[September]

Amen, amen, and amen!!!! What is wrong with all of you who are doubting this? Every last one of you believes God used dreams and visions to communicate with His people right up to EGW and the founding of this church, and then you made doctrine from them. Do ya' think He quit after that? So Danny said He had a vision. Do we not believe that satan will also send great signs and wonders as part of our own prophecy doctrine? How mmany times have you ALL heard that satan has a counterfeit for everything God made? Just because you don't see this as a solution? Have you really asked God how He wants this to paly out, or have you just determined who it is going to be? Now, it that is too penecostal for you then I am sorry, because obviously God IS penecostal in the way He communicates to His people. If it is a choice between SDA church doctrine and God's way, you know church doctrine is just out of luck! How can you argue with scripture? God plainly says in the last days this is how he will communicate with His people. These ARE the last days people!

I don't think the issue is whether or not the Lord gives people dreams, visions or what have you. The issue is the validity of this dream this woman had. Someone earlier broke the dream down and made some very good points. The question I have then is when God gives dreams, does He contradict His own scripture? Does He lie? See, to me the dream wreaked of pride--"I will raise Linda up as a Pheonix--nothing Danny can do can stop her, etc.," (my own paraphrase at the moment). To me that makes it sound like God is solely dependent upon 3ABN and/or Linda to bring billions to Him--which is not the case. God uses things like 3ABN, but he also uses us as individuals to proclaim the truth of a loving Saviour. And when He rises her up like a Pheonix, will that put her in a position for people to worship her? Think about it. Danny raised himself up through 3ABN. Now those around him are caling him God's annointed--the chosen one, etc., Did God raise him up to that height so that people all over the globe can think that he's the face of Adventism? I honestly believe that Danny raised himself up all by himself--he stands upon a self made pedistal and refuses to be moved. That's not a God thing folks!

I believe that God will restore Linda--that God is healing her--that God will use her in mighty ways. And her testimony will bring many to Christ because of what she's gone through--not because someone MADE her larger than life.

“3ABN will be the instrument I will use to bring billions to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, but when the redeemed get to heaven and search for their 3ABN family, they will discover that they are only ashes under their feet.”

Honest question here: When we get to Heaven are we going to be searching for family and loved ones--or will their fate be understood before we get there? Using the 'dream's logic' above, there's going to be a bunch of saints very bewildered, sad, confused, etc., in Heaven. The Bible tells us that God will wipe all tears from our eyes--the former things are passed away and God makes all things new. I cannot imagine that God would give a vision to someone to make them think--and now many others--that those at 3ABN are going to be lost. Only God knows their fate--and yes, if Danny and others continue in their behavior, unrepentant...well, then it's still up to God. So is each of our own 'fates' if you will.

Again, the Pheonix is a pagan symbol as was already pointed out. I have a real problem believing that God would speak to someone using a metaphor like that--when it could have been said another way--consistant with scripture and truth.

I'm sure this woman is a very dedicated Christian woman--who did not ask to have this dream. But we must prove all things--hold fast to that which is true.

[Jvat]

Well to add some fuel to the discussions. When Joshua said that the sun stood still, did it really? And yet he was mightily used of God and his record in the Scriptures is supposed to have been given to 'holy men who were moved of the Holy Ghost'. And yet that is how the story is written in the Bible. The story does not say that the earth stood still at all, although, scientifically/physically that is what really happened.

What about the case of the raven bringing food for Elijah when the raven is an unclean animal that God says touch not, taste not, handle not?

Can we ALWAYS presume to understand the way that God works? And when we are checking the Scriptures to see God's modus operandi, do we check the unusual happenings as well, like those that I have quoted above?

Again I want to reiterate that I understand the need for caution but let us not be too concrete in our thinking that we prevent God from working as He would like, as happened at the GC Session in 1888.

This post has been edited by Jvat: Aug 17 2006, 11:05 AM

[September]

I can appreciate that point about the raven feeding Elijah...but I still have to take issue with the whole dream being full of pride--placing someone in the position of being risen up...on a pedistal...so people can worship? Also the ashes under our feet in heaven part doesn't set well with me.

But I'm willing to learn and perhaps there are things I don't see about this

[Clay]

Read Psalms and listen how David rails against his enemies.... look at Samson's final prayer... he prays to God that he get his strength back.... so he can do what? KILL those who put his eyes out..... what is that?

[princessdi]

Let's not forget all the texts where God says how He will restore and bring down enemies of His people. He told Abraham that He will bless those who bless him(Abraham) and curse those who curse him. That is not pride, that is God. He is the only who can talk like, because He can and He just is.

Read Psalms and listen how David rails against his enemies.... look at Samson's final prayer... he prays to God that he get his strength back.... so he can do what? KILL those who put his eyes out..... what is that?