Prejudice in the Adventist Church Options

[Denny]

I know of 2 congregations, One in Miami and the other in Ft. Lauderdale, where this flight has occurred. These churches were almost exclusively white...then...the Jamaicans and Latinos showed up and the white members started moving away from the area and now the black members are now the majority in these churches. Of course these churches are not in the regional Southeastern Conference in Florida. They belong to the Florida Conference of SDA.

I know there are no regional conferences in California...but there are "black and white" churches. I'm curious as to how the "power" is shared on the conference and union level. The Southeastern California Conference has a Black Ministries Division and I believe an Asian Ministries Division as well.

Is there any fully integrated SDA Church in North America where Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Asians, and everyone else worship together? Of course there will be politics in any church...but does such a congregation exist?

I'm sure such a church exists in the USA - the Brigadoon SDA church last active in St Louis 2005 . Over here its more or less similar, except the indigenous population are an extremely small minority as Adventists. Most Adventists are of WI descent in a country were they are the minority - go figure.

This post has been edited by Denny: Oct 18 2006, 08:30 AM

[Clay]

Is there any fully integrated SDA Church in North America where Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Asians, and everyone else worship together? Of course there will be politics in any church...but does such a congregation exist?

there used to be a church called All Nations that had a nice mix, don't know what happened to them though...

[Denny]

there used to be a church called All Nations that had a nice mix, don't know what happened to them though...

There was a club in Hackney, an area of East London called All Nations any connection?????

[Clay]

There was a club in Hackney, an area of East London called All Nations any connection?????

ummmmmm NOT!!!!!!

[caribbean sda]

there used to be a church called All Nations that had a nice mix, don't know what happened to them though...

...guess you could count these churches on one hand, eh?

[Clay]

...guess you could count these churches on one hand, eh?

ummmmm yep.....

[seeshell]

You're still missing the point... if you decided to attend regularly at a black church you would be welcome... there would be no issue with your membership being moved there, your serving as a church officer or your just being present. If 50 white families showed up and did the same, there would *still* not be a problem... Put the shoe on the other foot though... and let 10 black families show up at many "white churches"... and the white members of that church will start to attend somewhere else and over time that church will become almost exclusively black...not because the black members want to be 'separate' however.

Many Black church administrators are reluctant to give up what they never desired to have in the first place because they feel it would revert to how things were prior to 1948 when there were no regional conferences and they had no real say in church affairs above the local church level... but I believe that if there could be unification without having a return to the exclusion and days of "taxation without representation", most would be willing to accept it...

From my experience I am not nearly as confident that the other side would be that willing... not so much because the .org hierarchy would be against it as the grass roots level still has those attitudes entrenched in many places. I have seen white pastors who tried to swim against that tide... and it wasnt pretty.

In His service,
Mr. J

Maybe so. I don't have personal experience with congregations experiencing great change in racial makeup, so I really can't speak authoritatively on the subject, just putting forward some thoughts.

But how can one be so certain of how a black congregation would react if there was an influx of white members? Have you observed this? Just wondering.

I also wonder if "white flight" may take place in part because of differing worship styles rather than just skin colour issues?

[Denny]

Maybe so. I don't have personal experience with congregations experiencing great change in racial makeup, so I really can't speak authoritatively on the subject, just putting forward some thoughts.

But how can one be so certain of how a black congregation would react if there was an influx of white members? Have you observed this? Just wondering.

I also wonder if "white flight" may take place in part because of differing worship styles rather than just skin colour issues?

Happened in the past , present and sad to say perhaps the future. Have you not read the examples given?. Why do you think you have regional conferences seeshell?

[Clay]

Maybe so. I don't have personal experience with congregations experiencing great change in racial makeup, so I really can't speak authoritatively on the subject, just putting forward some thoughts.

But how can one be so certain of how a black congregation would react if there was an influx of white members? Have you observed this? Just wondering.

I also wonder if "white flight" may take place in part because of differing worship styles rather than just skin colour issues?

I have observed white members attending predominately black churches and making themselves right at home.... however because of what the issue is, "white flight" I don't think you are ever going to see white members attend a predominately black church to the point that they become the majority and blacks the minority....

[seeshell]

Happened in the past , present and sad to say perhaps the future. Have you not read the examples given?. Why do you think you have regional conferences seeshell?

I'm not sure I get what you are saying, Denny. Sorry, maybe my thinker isn't at full power today.

Has anyone here personally observed an individual "black" congregation's reaction when there has been a sudden influx of white members to that congregation? I am wondering if it can be stated with surety that "black flight" would never occur the way "white flight" does, as this was stated in a previous post.

[Denny]

I'm not sure I get what you are saying, Denny. Sorry, maybe my thinker isn't at full power today.

Has anyone here personally observed an individual "black" congregation's reaction when there has been a sudden influx of white members to that congregation? I am wondering if it can be stated with surety that "black flight" would never occur the way "white flight" does, as this was stated in a previous post.

why dont' you try it and see

[Clay]

I'm not sure I get what you are saying, Denny. Sorry, maybe my thinker isn't at full power today.

Has anyone here personally observed an individual "black" congregation's reaction when there has been a sudden influx of white members to that congregation? I am wondering if it can be stated with surety that "black flight" would never occur the way "white flight" does, as this was stated in a previous post.

yes I can say with certainty that black flight won't occur.... where are they going to? Economics is part of the equation.... and probably some socioeconomic factors....

[awesumtenor]

Maybe so. I don't have personal experience with congregations experiencing great change in racial makeup, so I really can't speak authoritatively on the subject, just putting forward some thoughts.

I understand...and that's fine... but understand that I am putting forth that which I have witnessed with my own eyes, not what I have heard from others.

But how can one be so certain of how a black congregation would react if there was an influx of white members? Have you observed this? Just wondering.

Yes I have. While there are exceptions, black churches in general have no problem with worshipping with persons of another color or another culture... segregation in the Adventist church was forced upon black Adventists... from forced separation of mixed congregations to the development of regional conferences to avoid placing blacks in church hierarchy... none of it was either the suggestion or the desire of black Adventists; it was simply the hand we were dealt.

I also wonder if "white flight" may take place in part because of differing worship styles rather than just skin colour issues?

I know black churches that are uberconservative bastions of old school Adventism... no drums, no shouting... no gospel music; just hymns and anthems... no jewelry, no women in pants....etc... and where the worship style did not change...that were in the not too distant past churches with all white membership that have no white members now... and the churches their former white members attend now are far more liberal than the church they left...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Green Cochoa]

I can say with certainty that blacks have always been welcome in my home church. We simply do not have many blacks in the area. We have Asian, hispanic, and white members representing various countries, but no blacks. Most of the town is probably hispanic, with whites in the minority. The church is majority white, but the gap is closing. The lack of "mixing" is mostly due to language barrier. However we have had a black pastor. The church has never been unwelcoming to him. He has asked, and received, many perks through the church budget. He also has a black church in the city. However, the worship styles between his black church and his "white" church are quite different. His wife and others from his black church have visited only rarely. Distance might be a factor for the others, but for his own family? He has gotten away with some amazing things in the white church, who has always been forgiving and kind toward him, such as his stating in a sermon that there will be more blacks than whites in heaven! (I think he tried to claim Bible or EGW support for that.) We just loved him anyway, in spite of many of his racial inferences during his speaking. I never saw anyone really get upset about it--but that fact is rather surprising if you could have heard some of his statements. He has never seemed too happy about the fact that we don't "Preach it brother!" "Amen!" "Praise the Lord!" etc. as his black church does when he's speaking. It's simply not our culture to do that. None of us believes that doing so is wrong, it's just not the way we respond. If he has just said something big, I'm contemplating it in my mind quietly--not just vocalizing.

[Clay]

Interesting Greenie... thanks for sharing your experience.... more blacks in heaven than whites... now that will have to be pondered for a bit....