Prejudice in the Adventist Church Options

[princessdi]

And their Hit "remix" -

We Come To Worship Him - Only With Our Kind

[seeshell]

Part of the problem is that returning to how things were pre-1948 when the regional conferences were founded would not be viewed as making 'progress' and in many parts of the country, the churches currently served by regional conferences would be once again left without a voice at the conference level or above. Case in point... in 1901, under the presidency of A. G. Daniels, the Washington DC Seventh-day Adventist church was involuntarily segregated, with the black members of the church forced to form a new church, then called People's Seventh-day Adventist Church and which ultimately became the Dupont Park church...and the white members forming a new congregation which later became 1st church in Washington DC... which, ironically is now a regional conference church... the member's of People's were exhorted to give for the building of what is now the GC infrastructure in Maryland as well as the Sligo church in Takoma Park, with the promise that the church would later give them funds to help them build their own church...

They are still waiting for those funds, BTW. Over the years, the issues which were of import to the african american church... whether they be evangelism, church support for building, issues of social justice... often have not been a priority, even with the existence of regional conferences because they still lack votes at the union level... even as recently as Net 2004 run by Walter Pearson and Breath of Life... there were many non-regional conference churches which did not carry that series at all, opting instead to run the Doug Batchelor Amazing Facts evangelistic series which occurred about a month later... in spite of the fact that for previous Net efforts the decks were essentially cleared of other evangelism that would detract from Net 2000/2001/2002/2003. Other churches made arrangements to get the services on VHS or DVD and make them available to their members but did not actually participate by advertising, distributing handbills or door hangers and the like.

In the face of such I cannot place blame on the regional conferences because it has never been the regional conferences which set the terms of their interaction with the other conferences in their union or with the church at large.

BMTJM...
If the tenor of the relationship with the "white side" were to change due to an earnest thawing of the inclinations they have regarding "the black side", I doubt that you'd have to convince black leadership too much... and given that in the last few years several predominantly white churches with white pastors have opted to join the "black" conference instead of the "white" conference, at least in the Columbia Union, if that continues, it could make the whole argument moot.

In His service,
Mr. J

I reckon there are some who will be happy to keep it the way it is on both sides until the little people start making a fuss.

And their Hit "remix" -

We Come To Worship Him - Only With Our Kind

Please don't tell me I have to attend church only with "chunky" blondes!

[MsHoly1]

And their Hit "remix" -

We Come To Worship Him - Only With Our Kind

[PrincessDrRe]

...Please don't tell me I have to attend church only with "chunky" blondes!

I would qualify..... Then again - do you mean "chunky" or "thick" - I've been told "thick" is sezzie....


BTW: The new "remix"

We Come To Worship Him - But Only With Those That Worship Just Like Us In Style & Dress, I Guess...

[Creformed]

QUOTE(Denny @ Sep 5 2006, 10:02 AM)

"Well for a start I suppose they can bus the employees from the white conference to the regional conference and vice versa........ "


Hey, I thought we were against busing lol, what i think the problem is that there are still all black and all white neighborhoods. so the problem could be one of geography rather than prejudice, at least i would hope it is.

[awesumtenor]

I reckon there are some who will be happy to keep it the way it is on both sides until the little people start making a fuss.

There is no such thing as 'black flight'. I have yet to see a black church anywhere of any denomination whose members ran off when white people started attending their church.

The fact remains that such avoidance is an exclusively caucasian phenomenon both in churches and in communities...

In His service,
Mr. J

[simplysaved]

Please don't tell me I have to attend church only with "chunky" blondes!

[princessdi]

Nope.

QUOTE(Denny @ Sep 5 2006, 10:02 AM)

"Well for a start I suppose they can bus the employees from the white conference to the regional conference and vice versa........ "
Hey, I thought we were against busing lol, what i think the problem is that there are still all black and all white neighborhoods. so the problem could be one of geography rather than prejudice, at least i would hope it is.

[seeshell]

I would qualify..... Then again - do you mean "chunky" or "thick" - I've been told "thick" is sezzie....

Then I reckon I'll go with thick.

There is no such thing as 'black flight'. I have yet to see a black church anywhere of any denomination whose members ran off when white people started attending their church.

The fact remains that such avoidance is an exclusively caucasian phenomenon both in churches and in communities...

In His service,
Mr. J

This was awhile back, but I think I was not so much referring to black people leaving churches when whites showed up as some black people being happy with the status quo of separateness? Especially in leadership.

This post has been edited by seeshell: Oct 16 2006, 03:32 PM

[Clay]

Then I reckon I'll go with thick.
This was awhile back, but I think I was not so much referring to black people leaving churches when whites showed up as some black people being happy with the status quo of separateness? Especially in leadership.

unpack the bolded part a bit more... i am tryin to understand more clearly what you are saying before I comment.....

[seeshell]

unpack the bolded part a bit more... i am tryin to understand more clearly what you are saying before I comment.....

Well, I think that there are likely some black folks who are happy worshipping mainly with black folks, or at least they are not bothered enough about it to care about changing it. But really, I think the issue is more in leadership. If the conferences were to combine, someone's going to lose power, someone's going to lose their job...and it is possible some in leadership in the regional conferences aren't willing to gamble that it won't be them...probably with fair reason.

This post has been edited by seeshell: Oct 17 2006, 02:51 PM

[Clay]

Well, I think that there are likely some black folks who are happy worshipping mainly with black folks, or at least they are not bothered enough about it to care about changing it. But really, I think the issue is more in leadership. If the conferences were to combine, someone's going to lose power, someone's going to lose their job...and it is possible some in leadership in the regional conferences aren't willing to gamble that it won't be them...probably with fair reason.

thank you.... I agree.... jobs would be lost and that is a source of fear for some....

[Skyhook]

I seem to recall that awhile back there was some discussion about doing away with regional conferences which would include blending the retirement plans for the employees of the regional conferences with the other conferences. It meant that the employees of the regional conferences would lose a retirement plan that is much better than the other conferences. The regional conferences were wiser in planning and investing for retirement. They said no thanks to that idea.

Samuel Koranteng-Pipim deals with racism in the church in a section of his book "Must We Be Silent." Very much worth reading. The chapter "Is There a Better Way?" provides some hope and suggests what must happen to turn the church into what God would have it be.

I recently moved to a rather isolated area in No. Calif. along the Klamath river. I attend a little church with 20-30 in attendance each week. Mostly retired people who were in the logging business when that was flourishing here. (Its not now.) Only caucasians and Indians live around here. I have never heard a church member say anything good about Indians, although one of our deacons is an indian and another man who he witnessed to and studied with, who actually looks caucasian. Prejudice is here as much as anywhere, but it is not on the surface.

The only black man I have seen in this area in the 2 years I have lived here visited our church 2 or 3 times last year from some distant town. He was rather vague about why he happened to be in the area. Something about "I just wanted to see the town." (population 630, with one store and one gas station) ??? Anyway he was treated very warmly and returned a couple of times with his 2 adolescent boys. I never did really get clear about why he visited here. On the second visit he gave the church a nice copy machine that he said he no longer needed. The last time he came he was about to run out of gas and stopped at the Indian reservation about 25 miles away to get gas. At the station a man asked where he was going. The man told thim. The service station man then asked, "Are you a Seventh-day Adventist?" He said "Yes, how did you know?" "The only reason anyone would be going there on Saturday morning dressed like that, (suit and tie) would be going to church." I thought that was very funny and very true.

[awesumtenor]

Then I reckon I'll go with thick.
This was awhile back, but I think I was not so much referring to black people leaving churches when whites showed up as some black people being happyation in our church with the status quo of separateness? Especially in leadership.

You're still missing the point... if you decided to attend regularly at a black church you would be welcome... there would be no issue with your membership being moved there, your serving as a church officer or your just being present. If 50 white families showed up and did the same, there would *still* not be a problem... Put the shoe on the other foot though... and let 10 black families show up at many "white churches"... and the white members of that church will start to attend somewhere else and over time that church will become almost exclusively black...not because the black members want to be 'separate' however.

Many Black church administrators are reluctant to give up what they never desired to have in the first place because they feel it would revert to how things were prior to 1948 when there were no regional conferences and they had no real say in church affairs above the local church level... but I believe that if there could be unification without having a return to the exclusion and days of "taxation without representation", most would be willing to accept it...

From my experience I am not nearly as confident that the other side would be that willing... not so much because the .org hierarchy would be against it as the grass roots level still has those attitudes entrenched in many places. I have seen white pastors who tried to swim against that tide... and it wasnt pretty.

In His service,
Mr. J

[caribbean sda]

If 50 white families showed up and did the same, there would *still* not be a problem... Put the shoe on the other foot though... and let 10 black families show up at many "white churches"... and the white members of that church will start to attend somewhere else and over time that church will become almost exclusively black...not because the black members want to be 'separate' however.

I know of 2 congregations, One in Miami and the other in Ft. Lauderdale, where this flight has occurred. These churches were almost exclusively white...then...the Jamaicans and Latinos showed up and the white members started moving away from the area and now the black members are now the majority in these churches. Of course these churches are not in the regional Southeastern Conference in Florida. They belong to the Florida Conference of SDA.

I know there are no regional conferences in California...but there are "black and white" churches. I'm curious as to how the "power" is shared on the conference and union level. The Southeastern California Conference has a Black Ministries Division and I believe an Asian Ministries Division as well.

Is there any fully integrated SDA Church in North America where Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Asians, and everyone else worship together? Of course there will be politics in any church...but does such a congregation exist?