Chapter 11, Naive.... Options

[Seraphim7]

...Linda said NOTHING, and her representatives wouldn't agree they wanted the whole process made public (unbiblical) and wanted every other thing under the sun, which ASI had no jurisdiction over, to be brought into it, so ASI had to withdraw.

As if they couldn't resolve the divorce issue, and then take care of the rest of their concerns after that????

To be sure we understand you. Are you trying to tell us that trashing Linda on, T.V. to a worldwide audience, is biblical?

[Uncle Sam]

I just want to say when all of this started I bought Danny's story hook line and sinker...I was a loyal 3ABN viewer and supportor. After Linda left I felt sorry for Danny and the ministry so we decided as a family to go and volunteer. I defended 3ABN to anyone that would say anything negative, I defended Linda too. I felt if she had had an affair it was not a normal thing for her so I thought maybe she had a "midlife" crisis.

We went to 3ABN a few times, each time I saw things I wasn't quite comfortable with, nothing I could actually put my finger on. Or that others would think was worth mentioning. Then Danny and his "people" really started promoting Danny so the more he defended the more I searched what he was defending against. Than I found you guys:) I still wasn't sure until he married Brandi. That was hard for the "loyal" 3ABN viewer. I was teetering at this point. Than the 10 Commandment weekend came around. John Lomacang made a reference to people talking to their Dr. after hours on the phone....his sermon was on adultery. I couldn't believe it! Why would he use that as an example? So I wrote him, Linda NEVER entered his mind when he said that...Now come on!

That did it for me, I don't know what Linda did, but I started to see more of the trashing, I guess my blinders were off. Some questions I have...

1) If danny was torn up about Linda, as they say. Why did he have to get the divorce? I know he says she was going to file, he wanted it more private. If my spouse wants a divorce from me, they have to work for it!

2) Why was Brenda with Linda instead of Danny. I know you all say he didn't like Nathan but what does he say?

3) How could you be married to someone 20 years and than in such a short time hate them so?

4) If you were so in love and your marriage was Christ centered how does this happen? Which one was playing house? And playing Christian?

5) If none of these "rumors" are true why not just let them die? Why defend yourself when the only place I know they are talking about this is on the web and 3ABN?

6) If Danny believes that Linda was "brainwashed" by this Dr. why didn't he just let it take it's course? If the Dr. was in it for one thing he would soon tire of Linda, if it were more than she could divorce Danny. If Danny loved Linda and was a Christian he would forgive her and take her back. It would have been hard but I feel the right thing to do. Danny put her in the position she was in when he did not support her. She should never had had the opportunity to be alone with the Dr. Danny should have been by her side. I have step children so I do have experience in these types of situations. I would NEVER let my spouse go through something like this alone!

[Aletheia]

Time is getting short. Have you read the Save 3ABN website lately? What do you make of those stories?

Disobedience to God, and a ignoring of his testimonies to the Church, is what I see.

The Almighty God said rebuke your brother and do not suffer sin upon him, but at the same time clarified and commanded how not to do that: thou shalt not run up and down among the people being a talebearer"

David had it right:

"Thy glory, O Israel, is slain upon thy high places!
How are the mighty fallen!
Tell it not in Gath,
Publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon;
Lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
Lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph."

So did Ellen white:

"...Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed. " {2T 54.2}


" It pains me to say that there are unruly tongues among church members. There are false tongues that feed on mischief. There are sly, whispering tongues. There is tattling, impertinent meddling, adroit quizzing. Among the lovers of gossip some are actuated by curiosity, others by jealousy, many by hatred against those through whom God has spoken to reprove them. All these discordant elements are at work. Some conceal their real sentiments, while others are eager to publish all they know, or even suspect, of evil against another.

I saw that the very spirit of perjury, that would turn truth into falsehood, good into evil, and innocence into crime, is now active. Satan exults over the condition of God's professed people. While many are neglecting their own souls, they eagerly watch for an opportunity to criticize and condemn others. All have defects of character, and it is not hard to find something that jealousy can interpret to their injury. "Now," say these self-constituted judges, "we have facts. We will fasten upon them an accusation from which they can not clear themselves." They wait for a fitting opportunity and then produce their bundle of gossip and bring forth their tidbits.

In their efforts to carry a point, persons who have naturally a strong imagination are in danger of deceiving themselves and deceiving others. They gather up unguarded expressions from another, not considering that words may be uttered hastily and hence may not reflect the real sentiments of the speaker. But those unpremeditated remarks, often so trifling as to be unworthy of notice, are viewed through Satan's magnifying glass, pondered, and repeated until molehills become mountains. Separated from God, the surmisers of evil become the sport of temptation. They scarcely know the strength of their feelings or the effect of their words. While condemning the errors of others, they indulge far greater errors themselves. Consistency is a jewel.

Is there no law of kindness to be observed? Have Christians been authorized of God to criticize and condemn one another? Is it honorable, or even honest, to win from the lips of another, under the guise of friendship, secrets which have been entrusted to him, and then turn the knowledge thus gained to his injury? Is it Christian charity to gather up every floating report, to unearth everything that will cast suspicion on the character of another, and then take delight in using it to injure him? Satan exults when he can defame or wound a follower of Christ. He is "the accuser of our brethren." Shall Christians aid him in his work?

God's all-seeing eye notes the defects of all and the ruling passion of each, yet He bears with our mistakes and pities our weakness. He bids His people cherish the same spirit of tenderness and forbearance. True Christians will not exult in exposing the faults and deficiencies of others. They will turn away from vileness and deformity, to fix the mind upon that which is attractive and lovely. To the Christian every act of faultfinding, every word of censure or condemnation, is painful.

There have always been men and women who profess the truth, who have not conformed their lives to its sanctifying influence; men who are unfaithful, yet deceiving themselves and encouraging themselves in sin. Unbelief is seen in their life, their deportment, and character, and this terrible evil acts as does a canker.

Would all professed Christians use their investigative powers to see what evils needed to be corrected in themselves, instead of talking of others' wrongs, there would be a more healthy condition in the church today. Some will be honest when it costs nothing; but when policy will pay best, honesty is forgotten. Honesty and policy will not work together in the same mind. In time, either policy will be expelled, and truth and honesty reign supreme, or, if policy is cherished, honesty will be forgotten." Testimonies vol 5




and BLIND! BLIND! BLIND! and full of all malice and hypocracy is what I also make of the "save3abn" website:

They publish the evil reports and then say:
"Lessen donor confidence in 3ABN, and thus threaten 3ABN's financial support and its very existence....Cause embarrassment to the Seventh-day Adventist Church if these allegations become more widely known."

and "In short, this website is intended to be a part of a larger effort to save 3ABN to the cause, and vindicate the character of God, whose name has been brought into reproach through the allegations leveled at 3ABN."

Who has raised the allegations publically and brought reproach on the cause of God, and embarassment before the world?!? They themselves!

Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE IN SIN THEMSELVES BY NOT OBEYING CHRIST!

I am quite sure I will buried here in negative replies again, but I don't care. The truth and principles of God are here for those with a heart for the Lord to read and understand.

How are we to take care of all this, in private, in the Church?


" The matter should be thoroughly investigated. What is the charge brought against the erring one? Has he willfully transgressed the law of God? Has the offender been dishonest in his deal or trade with his brethren or the world? Has he been untruthful? Has he practiced deception? Has he been licentious? Has he been severe, overbearing, and abusive in his family, with his neighbors, with his brethren, or worldlings? Has he shown a spirit of penuriousness, selfishness, covetousness; of questioning doubts, of faultfinding, of talebearing, of talking of his brethren's faults, magnifying their wrongs, having a spirit of bitterness against them? All these things are grave matters, and deserving of consideration.

But the next question is: What course has been pursued toward the erring? Have the Bible rules been followed to the letter? Read before them the rules given by their Captain. Have they obeyed orders like faithful soldiers in the army? To go contrary to the positive orders of the Captain of our salvation is deserving of severest censure.

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 18:15-18). {9MR 194.4}



Ministers and lay members of the church displease God when they allow individuals to tell them the errors and faults of their brethren. They should not listen to these reports, but should inquire: Have you strictly followed the injunctions of your Saviour? Have you gone to the offender and told him his faults between you and him alone? And has he refused to hear you? "Have you carefully and prayerfully taken two or three others, and labored with him in tenderness, humility, and meekness, your heart throbbing with love for his soul?" If the Captain's orders, in the rules given for the erring, have been strictly followed, then an advance step is to be taken-tell it to the church, and let action be taken in the case according to the Scriptures. Then it is that heaven will ratify the decision made by the church in cutting off the offending member if he does not repent. If these steps have not been taken, close the ear to complaints, and thus refuse to take up a reproach against your neighbor. If there were no brethren and sisters to do this, evil tongues would soon cease; for they would not find so favorable a field in which to work in biting and devouring one another. {5T 616.4}



Brethren, we need to fall on the Rock and be broken. Then we shall have the melting, subduing love of Jesus in our hearts. We shall follow the example of Jesus and of the angels, and not be like the Pharisees, who were proud, hard-hearted, and unsympathetic. God is not willing that even the lowest and most degraded should perish. In what light, then, can you regard any neglect of those who need your help?

Christ has laid down rules to prevent unhappy divisions, but how many in our churches have followed his directions? "If thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and [tell it to every one you meet?] tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church; but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican." If the instructions which Christ has given were followed out in the spirit that every true Christian should have--if each, when aggrieved, would go to the offending member, and seek in kindness to correct the wrong by privately telling him of his fault, many a grievous trial would be averted.

When any one comes to a minister or to men in positions of trust, with complaints about a brother or sister, let them ask the reporter, "Have you complied with the rules our Saviour has given?" and if he has failed to carry out any particular of this instruction, do not listen to a word of his complaint. Refuse to take up a report against your brother or sister in the faith. If members of the church go entirely contrary to these rules, they make themselves subjects of church discipline and should be put under the censure of the church. This matter, so plainly taught in the lessons of Christ, has been passed over with strange indifference. The church has either neglected her work entirely, or has done it with harshness and severity, wounding and bruising souls. Measures should be taken to correct this cruel spirit of criticism, of judging one another's motives, as though Christ had revealed to men the hearts of their brethren. The neglect of doing aright, with wisdom and grace, the work that ought to have been done, has left churches weak, inefficient, and almost Christless.

Jesus adds to the lesson these words: "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This assurance, that after the rules of Christ have been followed to the letter, the decisions of the church will be ratified in heaven, gives a solemn significance to the action of the church. No hasty steps should be taken to cut off names from the church books, or to place a member under censure until the case has been investigated, and the Bible rule fully obeyed. The word of Christ shows how necessary it is for church officers to be free from prejudice and selfish motives. Human minds and hearts, unless wholly sanctified, purified, and refined from partiality and prejudice, are liable to commit grave errors, to misjudge and deal unkindly and unjustly with souls that are the purchase of the blood of Christ. But the decision of an unjust judge will be of no account in the court of heaven. It will not make an innocent man guilty, nor change his character in the least before God. As surely as men in responsible positions become lifted up in their own esteem, and act as though they were to lord it over their brethren, they will render many decisions which heaven cannot ratify.

May God pity those who are watching, as did the Pharisees, to find something to condemn in their brethren, and who pride themselves on their wonderfully acute discernment. That which they call discernment is cold, satanic criticism, acuteness in suspecting and charging souls with evil intent who are less guilty than themselves. They are, like the enemy of God, accusers of the brethren. These souls, whatever their position or experience, need to humble themselves before God. How can they pray, "Forgive me as I forgive others"? "With what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." "He shall have judgment without mercy, that hath showed no mercy." God grants no pardon to him whose penitence produces no humility, and whose faith does not work by love to purify the soul. We need to study the example of Him who was meek and lowly, who, when he was reviled, reviled not again. A vindictive spirit will not be indulged by a true Christian.

The lessons which Christ has given us are to be studied, and incorporated into our religious life every day. "When ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have aught against any." "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

Who will stand for the Lord?

To be sure we understand you. Are you trying to tell us that trashing Linda on, T.V. to a worldwide audience, is biblical?

No I am not, and I have not seen any quotes of "trashing" taking place, but I even if what you say is true; you tell me this. Are you trying to say that would justify trashing Danny Shelton, his entire family, Walt Thompson, all the other 3ABN employees and board members who have been vilified, ridiculed and maligned, as well as ASI now?, also the entire Thompsonville Church and even the conference President???, and all the others that have been trashed here publically and on www.save3abn.com?

If so FOR SHAME.

[Seraphim7]

Who will stand for the Lord?
No I am not...
If so FOR SHAME.

If you have not heard Linda trashed in some of their broadcasts, then you obviously have not been watching, paying attention, or your statement is simply not truthful. But anyway, Aletheia give it a rest. Blah blah blah blah blah

P.S.
Please chill with the snipper runs. Taking pot shots, then running away seems so childish. If you can't take the heat, you know what they say... Also, you can come to LiveChat and speak your peace.

This post has been edited by seraph|m: Jan 30 2007, 08:22 AM

[PrincessDrRe]

Sera - allow me to explain why the "hit and run"...

*ahem*

See...they "hit and run" because what they do is they get a "good post" from either Danny or one of his "camp members"...then they come back and post it. THEN...they discuss their next strategy.

& YES I DO THINK THEY ARE DOING THIS THIS WAY....

[awesumtenor]

[quote name='Aletheia' date='Jan 30 2007, 08:56 AM' post='173920']
Disobedience to God, and a ignoring of his testimonies to the Church, is what I see.
[/quote]
Still ignoring your log, I see, Cindy...

[quote]The Almighty God said rebuke your brother and do not suffer sin upon him, but at the same time clarified and commanded how not to do that: thou shalt not run up and down among the people being a talebearer"
[/quote]

You mean as in one should not make false accusations against one's wife in order to divorce her while avoiding church discipline? That kind of tale-bearing?

[quote]David had it right:

"Thy glory, O Israel, is slain upon thy high places!
How are the mighty fallen!
Tell it not in Gath,
Publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon;
Lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
Lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph." [/quote]

Unfortunately for you... Thompsonville is not Israel.... There is no shekinah in the 3ABN worship center... and not being on Danny's side makes one neither a Philistine nor uncricumcised.

[quote]So did Ellen white:

"...Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed. " [/quote]

If you were tending to the beam in your own eye, you'd have seen that the following paragraphs apply to you and those of your ilk, to wit:

This is a pop quiz; guess which danny apologist each of these applies to:

[quote]" It pains me to say that there are unruly tongues among church members. There are false tongues that feed on mischief. [/quote]

That would be ____________

[quote]There are sly, whispering tongues. [/quote]
That would be ___________

[quote]There is tattling, impertinent meddling, adroit quizzing. [/quote]

This would be _____________

[quote]Among the lovers of gossip some are actuated by curiosity, others by jealousy, many by hatred against those through whom God has spoken to reprove them. All these discordant elements are at work. Some conceal their real sentiments, while others are eager to publish all they know, or even suspect, of evil against another. " [/quote]

This is __________


[quote] I saw that the very spirit of perjury, that would turn truth into falsehood, good into evil, and innocence into crime, is now active. Satan exults over the condition of God's professed people. While many are neglecting their own souls, they eagerly watch for an opportunity to criticize and condemn others. All have defects of character, and it is not hard to find something that jealousy can interpret to their injury. "Now," say these self-constituted judges, "we have facts. We will fasten upon them an accusation from which they can not clear themselves." They wait for a fitting opportunity and then produce their bundle of gossip and bring forth their tidbits. [/quote]

This is for ____________


[quote] There have always been men and women who profess the truth, who have not conformed their lives to its sanctifying influence; men who are unfaithful, yet deceiving themselves and encouraging themselves in sin. Unbelief is seen in their life, their deportment, and character, and this terrible evil acts as does a canker. [/quote]

And this is for ____________

[quote]

But the next question is: What course has been pursued toward the erring? Have the Bible rules been followed to the letter? Read before them the rules given by their Captain. Have they obeyed orders like faithful soldiers in the army? To go contrary to the positive orders of the Captain of our salvation is deserving of severest censure.

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 18:15-18). {9MR 194.4}

*snip*

[/quote]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You keep repeating this... and never... NOT ONCE... have you even attempted to abide by it.

Weighed in the same balance you are found wanting. And you are a respecter of persons to boot. When bystander was noting how he spoke of me to others, where was this then? Why didn't you have this indignation then? Where was your great burden that Matt 18 be followed then? Aside from the fact that you were likely one of the 'others' with whom he was discussing me.... and I am sure I'm not the only one.

You are a hypocrite Cindy... pure and simple... and the more you say, the greater your hypocrisy

Shame starts and ends at your feet. No matter how many fingers you try to point.

In His service,
Mr. J

This post has been edited by awesumtenor: Jan 30 2007, 09:05 AM

[Aletheia]

If you have not heard Linda trashed in some of their broadcasts, then you obviously have not been watching, paying attention, or your statement is simply not truthful. But anyway, Aletheia give it a rest. Blah blah blah blah blah

P.S.
Please chill with the snipper runs. Taking pot shots, then running away seems so childish. If you can't take the heat, you know what they say... Also, you can come to LiveChat and speak your peace.

Where did I run to? I simply don't have time to be on here 24/7's, nor do I have the inclination to answer everyone who is critical of me, but can't adress what I post...

Nor can I come to live chat as my computer won't let me... It's old.. and cranky, and stubborn.
I call her "Ms Freeze"

[Chez]

Bystander: even Danny Shelton, whose behavior is akin to a hick, red-necked, Southern con artist who steals the nickles and dimes from old ladies on fixed incomes, while using God as his frontman; even he should not be ignorant enough to write the above. Or on second thought, perhaps he did make this very mistake?

First you call the incident alleged, then you say it was written in a way to suggest it was a recent event. After that you state that the incident took place approximately fifteen years ago. By your testimony you have supported the fact that the incident is in fact true and occurred approximately fifteen years ago. You were definitely the last person I expected to verify my statement, although I am sure that was not your intention...

Is the great "anointed one" here among us?

Sister

No. His pastor is.

[PeacefulBe]

How come you seem to use the same computer as Mr. Danny Shelton?

Johann and Fran,

How did you come to the conclusion that Bystander is using the same computer as Danny Shelton?

[awesumtenor]

Nor can I come to live chat as my computer won't let me... It's old.. and cranky, and stubborn.
I call her "Ms Freeze"

I guess computers, like pets, can take on the characteristics of their owners...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Aletheia]

Johann and Fran,

How did you come to the conclusion that Bystander is using the same computer as Danny Shelton?

Because they know the rules about trying to figure out identities are only applied if it concerns sister, or several of her cohorts?

[awesumtenor]

Because they know the rules about trying to figure out identities are only applied if it concerns sister, or several of her cohorts?

All complaints must be registered by dialing 1-800-WAA-AAAH



In His service,
Mr. J

[sister]

Because they know the rules about trying to figure out identities are only applied if it concerns sister, or several of her cohorts?

First of all I must say that this is all getting quite tiresome, Aletheia. You accuse others of not behaving in a Christian manner, you beat them over the head with Scripture and SOP (out of context) and now you start this childish rant in regard to following the rules. I would say that Calvin, Clay and PrincessDi have been very generous with you in regard to the rules. Secondly, I have no "cohorts". Back to the Rules: the rules apply to everyone. Calvin has gotten after me when I stepped over the line in this area and he was right, I deserved censure. He reminded me that I don't like it when people keep trying to out my identity. The reason this topic comes up so often in regard to "Sister" is that people continue to try and prove that I am Linda Shelton, which I am not. A number of times Calvin has made the statement that Linda and I do not have the same IP address, in fact, the last time he testified that we do not even live in the same city!

Sister

[PrincessDrRe]

You know what Sista - you are right. We don't have to figure out who anyone is....

The devil will show itself soon enough. Why? 'Cause the devil always "trips up" eventually....

[sonshineonme]

Sera - allow me to explain why the "hit and run"...

*ahem*

See...they "hit and run" because what they do is they get a "good post" from either Danny or one of his "camp members"...then they come back and post it. THEN...they discuss their next strategy.

& YES I DO THINK THEY ARE DOING THIS THIS WAY....

(when I first read it I thought it said "crap members" and I think that is more appropriate anyway. maybe after a cup of coffee (opps), ROMA, my eyes will not fail me again. Then again, I think my eyes actually saw truth through the haze of even morning tiredness. JMO )

Oh and VERY good point Re!