I Will Wait Patiently..., but I would rather not Options

[beartrap]

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
Sir Winston Churchill, Speech in November 1942

[watchbird]

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
Sir Winston Churchill, Speech in November 1942

Interesting. For some reason I have always like the way it was put by a novelist whose name I do not recall.....

"What he had thought would be the end of the beginning, turned out instead to be the beginning of the end."

[justme]

I’m not sure you understood what I meant when I said I understand what you said I meant.
Because I understood you understood what I sad when you said you understood me.
But, what I you said I said was not what I meant you to understand.
You understood what I meant when I said I understand you the first time.
The second time I understood you I understood you meant you understood me the second time, so I understood what you meant the first time.
Now I understand you meant to understand the first time but misunderstood me.
Now I understand, do you?

[simplysaved]

I’m not sure you understood what I meant when I said I understand what you said I meant.
Because I understood you understood what I sad when you said you understood me.
But, what I you said I said was not what I meant you to understand.
You understood what I meant when I said I understand you the first time.
The second time I understood you I understood you meant you understood me the second time, so I understood what you meant the first time.
Now I understand you meant to understand the first time but misunderstood me.
Now I understand, do you?

[watchbird]

I’m not sure you understood what I meant when I said I understand what you said I meant.
Because I understood you understood what I sad when you said you understood me.
But, what I you said I said was not what I meant you to understand.
You understood what I meant when I said I understand you the first time.
The second time I understood you I understood you meant you understood me the second time, so I understood what you meant the first time.
Now I understand you meant to understand the first time but misunderstood me.
Now I understand, do you?

Nope..... I don't even understand who is "you" in this little "explanation".
Oh well...... we all need a humor break.....

[Ralph]

Nope..... I don't even understand who is "you" in this little "explanation".
Oh well...... we all need a humor break.....

Yeh, I know I am but that reminded me of the lines of an old lyric
I was looking back to see if you were looking back to see
If I was looking back to see if you were looking back at me

This post has been edited by Ralph: Sep 24 2006, 10:04 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

Does anyone have any idea how much this 3abn/Danny issue is being discussed outside of the internet? Is this a hot topic at our collages and other institutions? In our conference offices? How about our churches in general?

Richard

[watchbird]

Does anyone have any idea how much this 3abn/Danny issue is being discussed outside of the internet? Is this a hot topic at our collages and other institutions? In our conference offices? How about our churches in general?

Richard

From what I have seen..... which is admittedly not a large sampling so far as numbers go, but does include churches in distinctly different areas of the country, and even of the world..... it is hardly mentioned outside of the internet. Which is the reason that the internet in general and BSDA in particular is so important.

In general there are those who watch 3abn ..... and there are those who do not. There are those who watch 3abn selectively, only watching programming of major Adventist evangelists and/or preachers..... and there are those who turn it on as background to their day and watch it indescrimently all day long. Some of these watchers are "true believers".... that is they depend on 3abn for their spiritual guidance and information..... and some are just there for the atmosphere. Some who previously watched have, for various reasons, as you have heard here on BSDA, discontinued or greatly lessened their watching.

Those who watch and those who don't watch..... unless they have personal or internet information tend to know only what 3abn has said about themselves, and the amount they "know" varies, of course, from a vague, "I heard..... " to having listened to and believed all that has been said either on 3abn or in their "news letters" for the past two plus years especially, and generally from the authorized "history books" which have long been available.

But this doesn't really answer your question, it only sets a background for what I have observed.... and that is that there is little if any dialogue between these various groups of persons, either publicly or privately. It seems to be one of those things (like "politics and religion") which are generally agreed should be "off limits" in "polite society". So at church potlucks or other gatherings where those of varied opinions might be gathered, there is hardly a mention of it, and if there should be it has been my (limited) experience that there will be at least one "true believer" around who will very quickly make their presence known and their closed ears apparent.

In my even more limited experience in Conference offices, I find such a total absence of any knowledge about the issue that I have to assume that the same pattern of no-speak exists there also. Colleges and University people in general have much more pressing things to think about than the problems of an independent ministry which they have no perceived ability to do anything about. And there is, so far as I can tell, total silence from the pulpits of the land.

[simplysaved]

Not here in Nashville...or in most places that I know....

Does anyone have any idea how much this 3abn/Danny issue is being discussed outside of the internet? Is this a hot topic at our collages and other institutions? In our conference offices? How about our churches in general?

Richard

[Panama_Pete]

And there is, so far as I can tell, total silence from the pulpits of the land.

I don't have time to respond to any answers to my post right now.

However, just remember that there is a full-time, conference president voting on the 3ABN Board, plus a couple of conference ministers involved.

These people are full-time Adventist Church employees.

How can the organized Adventist Church comment on the deeds of its very own full-time employees? Imagine the legal implications of doing that?

Remember, the Norwegian doctor did not sign away his legal rights the way Linda Shelton did. And the Norwegian doctor has plenty of money to do anything he chooses to do.

Total silence by the Adventist Church may be the only option at this point.

Just a thought.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Sep 25 2006, 09:31 AM

[watchbird]

I don't have time to respond to any answers to my post right now.

However, just remember that there is a full-time, conference president voting on the 3ABN Board, plus a couple of conference ministers involved.

These people are full-time Adventist Church employees.

How can the organized Adventist Church comment on the deeds of its very own full-time employees? Imagine the legal implications of doing that?

There are no "legal" implications of doing that. There may be interior "political" considerations, and each man has to decide for himself as to whether he wants to endanger his further career in the church administration bullpen by speaking out on something without first getting the consensus of the whole group. But who knows whether or not in the end it may be the brave who will stand safe and tall and the weak who will fall. Again it is something that we have to "wait and see".

Remember, the Norwegian doctor did not sign away his legal rights the way Linda Shelton did. And the Norwegian doctor has plenty of money to do anything he chooses to do.

Total silence by the Adventist Church may be the only option at this point.

Just a thought.

It is all too true that until "the word" is passed at GC level, that not many pastors will have the courage to speak out against that which has not been spoken against from "on high".

However .... how many pastors.... and other church employees..... do you find totally silent on everything which has not been ordered from above? I could give examples of where pastors defy "church orders" and preach very strongly against things of which they disapprove.... even inviting seminarists to present on subjects to which the "SDA pulpits" have been "officially closed" for over 20 years. No, the lack of directive from above is not sufficient reason for the strange malaise that keeps people in an inactive condition such as we have witnessed over the last two years.

But the question as I understood it had to do in general with the amount of attention and discussion that was going on among the people in various SDA venues. And the answer has to be that there is more suppression of discussion ... either voluntarily by those who don't want to stick their neck out, or who are advised by their pastors to not agitate on the subject.

BUT .....

I am not being fair to some who have indeed "stuck their neck out" on these issues .... though without their express permission I do not feel free to name names if they have not already been identified on BSDA by others.

Let's start with Upper Columbia Conference, where Mabel Dunbar, the Director of Women's Ministries, and President of Polly's Place, has been openly supportive of Linda ever since she first met her in St Louis in 2005 ... and who has also in turn been supported by the President of that conference, Max Torkelson. Let's also mention the Family Ministries Director of another conference. Let's also remember the unnamed pastors who have supported Linda and invited her to their churches .... even in the face of opposition from her enemies. And we could also mention some by name from Divisions outside the NAD where prominent persons in church administrative positions have been active in resisting the spread of the 3abn virus in their territories.

[Uncle Sam]

I am from TN it is only mentioned around here when Danny gets on defending himself. Than people start asking "What is going On?" That is how I started asking questions and found this site. So, he is hurting himself...

[Panama_Pete]

But the question as I understood it had to do in general with the amount of attention and discussion that was going on among the people in various SDA venues. And the answer has to be that there is more suppression of discussion ... either voluntarily by those who don't want to stick their neck out, or who are advised by their pastors to not agitate on the subject.

I believe you are right about the suppression of discussion. Unquestionably, it is happening. How it is happening is a bit baffling at the moment.

[paleface]

Whenever I open the 3abn topic for discussion in my private e-mails, the sand starts flying from whom I send my message to with, "I don't want to hear about it and don't tell me anything more!" The hole gets dug so fast, the other individual goes out of sight in denial or attack me as spreading "gossip." I just let the subject drop.

On the postive side, there are others whom will observe and we compare notes.

[Johann]

Whenever I open the 3abn topic for discussion in my private e-mails, the sand starts flying from whom I send my message to with, "I don't want to hear about it and don't tell me anything more!" The hole gets dug so fast, the other individual goes out of sight in denial or attack me as spreading "gossip." I just let the subject drop.

On the postive side, there are others whom will observe and we compare notes.

In many cases it is only the minority who is willing to hear the truth. Does that mean we must compromise? Does that mean we should keep quiet? Do votes decide what is right?