Disgust!, disgusted by the smear in this site Options

[Aletheia]

Are they paid enough to leave the land and live else where? Also, that does not take the responsibility from 3ABN to provide "decent" housing, if they are offering housing to their employee. That is not dramatic, just common courtesy to provide others with nothing less than you would accept for yourself. I don't know if the housing is part of their salary package or what, but I know a house can be modest, clean, and in good repair. Nobody said anything about luxurious, just decent. You did not hear me bashing Danny or PL for their standard of living, I thought in that respect Joy has a point. However, a slum lord is a slum lord whether in the inner city NYC, SF, or T'ville. I am sure it would not take that much for Danny to buy some cans a paint and hire a maintenance person to make sure employee housing he is offereing is livable.

I am really troubled that your response was that they should just go somewhere else. As a single mom you should remember that you were in the "bomb shelter" because you had no other choice, and when you could do better you did.

I'm sorry you are troubled, but I don't know what the employess are paid or what the houses even look like, or if they are happy or unhappy to live there, or if they can or cannot go elsewhere. Why ask me those questions I was responding to what you wrote, surely you already know the answers to those things or you wouldn't be posting about it?


Nobody has provided evidence regarding any of this as far as I know, including yourself who is upset at this injustice, what are you basing your words on?


Surely this is something, if true which cannot be layed at Danny Shelton's feet alone.
How for instance, could Linda as Vice President of 3ABN living in that beautiful house with Danny have countenanced these alleged workers being in such poverty and living in substandard housing while doing so?. You do know she received a quarter of a million dollars as a settlement don't you? And that she contributed $100,000 dolars with either a gift or loan of another 100,000 dollars from Her Norwegian friend towards purchasing the house she lives in now don't you?

Also:

I didn't think 3ABN was owned by Danny Shelton.

It's my understanding Danny Shelton can be voted out as president or fired for misconduct just like Linda was. and another President voted in even if he's not fired. And that the term of President is only for three years.

I got most of this from Sister's posts along with the rest of the Linda supporters.

If any of this is wrong, and someone has proof otherwise I'd like to hear it.

But in the meantime this constant bashing of 3ABN because of Danny is wrong wrong wrong to me. He cannot possibly be as powerful as people keep claiming.

If the man is in sin and error certainly something needs to be done, but why bash everything to do with the ministry? No one needed to bash 3 ABN to fire Linda. I've heard no one blaming any of the problems at 3ABN on her although she was equally accountable for 20 years and as i said the vice President for the last 12 years.

That just seems really one-sided and partial to me.

As far as the divorce and all the he said she said involving that goes, well i don't really know enough to take a side yet, but 3ABN the ministry can continue with or without Danny Shelton, and I really believe that the two shoould be kept separate lest we be found fighting God and the spread of his message.

My two cents, because your response troubles me also.

~ Aletheia

Thank you for sharing this...it clarifies many things for me.
In reading item #6, does this Forum then represent a breech in the agreement that was signed?

No problem , It clarified things for me also. It does sound like Linda could have been held accountable for what was posted here, according to how I understnd what was writen, but if so apparently they chose not to do anything, as somebody on Maritime posted she received her last payment at the beginning of December.

~ Aletheia

[Panama_Pete]

In reading item #6, does this Forum then represent a breech in the agreement that was signed? [/color]

This forum, itself, is a form of publishing, and protected by the First Amendment.

As for the parties, themselves, that breech would have to be proven, since one party's idea of a breech might not be the other party's idea of a breech.

[simplysaved]

This is how I am convicted on this as well....

I'm sorry you are troubled, but I don't know what the employess are paid or what the houses even look like, or if they are happy or unhappy to live there, or if they can or cannot go elsewhere. Why ask me those questions I was responding to what you wrote, surely you already know the answers to those things or you wouldn't be posting about it?
Nobody has provided evidence regarding any of this as far as I know, including yourself who is upset at this injustice, what are you basing your words on?
Surely this is something, if true which cannot be layed at Danny Shelton's feet alone.
How for instance, could Linda as Vice President of 3ABN living in that beautiful house with Danny have countenanced these alleged workers being in such poverty and living in substandard housing while doing so?. You do know she received a quarter of a million dollars as a settlement don't you? And that she contributed $100,000 dolars with either a gift or loan of another 100,000 dollars from Her Norwegian friend towards purchasing the house she lives in now don't you?
Also:

I didn't think 3ABN was owned by Danny Shelton.

It's my understanding Danny Shelton can be voted out as president or fired for misconduct just like Linda was. and another President voted in even if he's not fired. And that the term of President is only for three years.

I got most of this from Sister's posts along with the rest of the Linda supporters.

If any of this is wrong, and someone has proof otherwise I'd like to hear it.

But in the meantime this constant bashing of 3ABN because of Danny is wrong wrong wrong to me. He cannot possibly be as powerful as people keep claiming.

If the man is in sin and error certainly something needs to be done, but why bash everything to do with the ministry? No one needed to bash 3 ABN to fire Linda. I've heard no one blaming any of the problems at 3ABN on her although she was equally accountable for 20 years and as i said the vice President for the last 12 years.

That just seems really one-sided and partial to me.

As far as the divorce and all the he said she said involving that goes, well i don't really know enough to take a side yet, but 3ABN the ministry can continue with or without Danny Shelton, and I really believe that the two shoould be kept separate lest we be found fighting God and the spread of his message.

My two cents, because your response troubles me also.

~ Aletheia
No problem , It clarified things for me also. It does sound like Linda could have been held accountable for what was posted here, according to how I understnd what was writen, but if so apparently they chose not to do anything, as somebody on Maritime posted she received her last payment at the beginning of December.

~ Aletheia

^
^

...that was all I wanted to have someone say....So then WHY because the agreement covers the past, present, and FUTURE? The bottomline is it WAS signed by Linda.

...AND cashed the checks.....I do not have a side other than if one is at fault BOTH are at fault.

[Johann]

This forum, itself, is a form of publishing, and protected by the First Amendment.

As for the parties, themselves, that breech would have to be proven, since one party's idea of a breech might not be the other party's idea of a breech.

Here is how Danny Shelton has been trying to keep me from presenting the TRUTH in this matter, as I have experienced it:

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Shelton [mailto:danshelton@earthlink.net]
Sent: 1. október 2004 07:17
To: Johann Thorvaldsson
Subject:


Johann, if you care anything about Linda please quit writing all this garbage as it is only hurting her. I just read Nick and your correspondence and of course, once again, you are out of your league.
Don't you understand that you can cost her$150,000 that she has coming to her in the next 2 1/2 years.
Nick is not bluffing. What a shame you pretend to care about her but because of selfish pride are willing jepardize her small fortune.
Whether you like it or not she signed an agreement. She is obligated to abide by this agreement if she wants her $150,000.
The agreement states that if she or those close to her, and of course you claim to be her close friend, try to hurt the ministry, as you are now doing you jepardize her money.
You just don't get it Johann, the bible says no one can do anything against the gospel, but for the gospel. No one, even you cannot stop 3ABN because it is giving the gospel into all the world.
3ABN can use this $150,000 to help it reach even farther into the world, maybe even to help build a new studio in Scandinavia. So think about it, you're trying to help Linda by trying to turn people against 3ABN because you think she was treated unfairly, is only going to help 3ABN because now instead of all this money going to Linda, if quite possibly is going to stay within 3ABN.
I know you won't understand one word of this but maybe someone close to you will read this to you and explain to you the damage you are doing to Linda. Your son seems very sharp, maybe he could help you understand, what your foolish pride won't allow you to see.
Once again, if you don't stop, 3ABN's coffers will be $150,000 better off. I want this money to go to Linda! We the board and Linda have an agreement. If you mess it up I hope you are willing to support her to the tune of $150,000 in the next 2 1/2 years.
With all the work you are doing to hurt this ministry by sending out your lies in a letter only 11 people have written me that were upset at me because of what you wrote. I looked up their numbers and either called them or emailed them. So far 10 have written me back and apologized for jumping to conclusions about what you had written. So far you may have affected one of the 11. But she is not listed as a donar in our computor anyway.
Our finances, are at an all time high for this time of year. Our donors have risen 33% in the last 4 months. That's the biggest increase in the history of 3ABN. They see your letter and Linda's Web page as an assault against God's ministry. Not against me or the board. They are rallying to help 3ABN like never before. Remember the bible says you cannot hurt the gospel only help it. The only problem is your own soul and what this desire to destroy God's work has done to you. It's made you cover up truth and distort truth. You can't win, but please don't take Linda's money down the tube with you.
Danny

The "garbage" Danny refers to shouls be my letter that was posted on BSDA and which Calvin has pinned at the top of this section. Don't say that Danny has not tried! Has he succeeded now two years later? Why have I kept on? Not for selfish purposes. I was wondering if I should not quit and leave the results to the Lord. I had nothing to gain. I prayed about it, and the Lord gave me a clear sign that if I quit then I would be held accountable for the crimes committed in this case. It is great to know that there are so many honest people world wide that are eager to see the TRUTH prevail. Thank you, and God bless you all!

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 20 2006, 06:01 PM

[princessdi]

I'm sorry you are troubled, but I don't know what the employess are paid or what the houses even look like, or if they are happy or unhappy to live there, or if they can or cannot go elsewhere. Why ask me those questions I was responding to what you wrote, surely you already know the answers to those things or you wouldn't be posting about it?

Actually, it is fine that you don't have an answer, but it does tend to tie your hands as far as a defense. I am asking you because you responded to this situation by saying if they are not happy with their accommodations, then they should just move, basically. Also, by using your own experience as a simgle mother, which I also referenced. IOW, you started answering, why stop now? No, I don't know the answers, because as I keep saying, it is beyond me why Danny would offer substandard housing to his workers.


Nobody has provided evidence regarding any of this as far as I know, including yourself who is upset at this injustice, what are you basing your words on?

We have Uncle Sam's first-hand account of the housing situation i Posts #71 and #79. Also, this is not the first time I had heard this, but I don't know that the account is as credible as Uncle Sam's first hand account. I think this type of ifnormation you have been asking for all long, Correct? Yet you still don't believe......


Surely this is something, if true which cannot be layed at Danny Shelton's feet alone.
How for instance, could Linda as Vice President of 3ABN living in that beautiful house with Danny have countenanced these alleged workers being in such poverty and living in substandard housing while doing so?. You do know she received a quarter of a million dollars as a settlement don't you? And that she contributed $100,000 dolars with either a gift or loan of another 100,000 dollars from Her Norwegian friend towards purchasing the house she lives in now don't you?

She was co-owner, a quarter of a million dallars is not her portion of the company. She was cheated, unless 3ABN is only worth $500,000.00. I would have mentioned her had she still been there.
Also:

I didn't think 3ABN was owned by Danny Shelton.

It's my understanding Danny Shelton can be voted out as president or fired for misconduct just like Linda was. and another President voted in even if he's not fired. And that the term of President is only for three years.

Donald Trump owns his company, but he has a board that can fire him if it is for the good of the company. That has nothing to do with ownership, it is just business. Danny still owns 3ABN.
I got most of this from Sister's posts along with the rest of the Linda supporters.

Then you also read that Danny has stacked the deck with the board. It IS his buisness and stacking the board is common practice in the corporate world. The board has the power to fire the owner/CEO, then you stack to board with people who will never vote to have you fired. Simple enough. Crooked as all get out, but simple.

If any of this is wrong, and someone has proof otherwise I'd like to hear it.

But in the meantime this constant bashing of 3ABN because of Danny is wrong wrong wrong to me. He cannot possibly be as powerful as people keep claiming.

If the man is in sin and error certainly something needs to be done, but why bash everything to do with the ministry? No one needed to bash 3ABN to fire Linda. I've heard no one blaming any of the problems at 3ABN on her although she was equally accountable for 20 years and as i said the vice President for the last 12 years.

You need to keep reading................If he is still doing wrong, and somebody knows about it.........the Bible says what you do in the dark........right? I might be wrong, but ai think the lack of action in the face of evidence that warrants at the very least a thorough investigation, is what fuels people to keep this subject in the fore front.
That just seems really one-sided and partial to me.

It will be, remember, the agreement you just posted says that Linda cannot speak for herself. Danny has been speaking all the time, every chance he gets. That does not seem one sided to you? So Danny has the audience of millions with which to voice his side, and Linda has a couple of message boards. You are right, it is really one sided.
As far as the divorce and all the he said she said involving that goes, well i don't really know enough to take a side yet, but 3ABN the ministry can continue with or without Danny Shelton, and I really believe that the two shoould be kept separate lest we be found fighting God and the spread of his message.

My two cents, because your response troubles me also.

It should, but not for the reason it is. It really should trouble you that someone who claims to represent Christ and your denomination is so unChrist-like to his fellow laborers in His vineyard. However, it troubles you more that I voiced my concern about the inequality. Everyone has a right to live as comfortably as they can afford. I am one who not against folks being blessed of God to be rich and even wealthy, we have president for this in the Bible. However, here again, I am disturbed by Danny's claims to be of God, and his actions. You see my concern is not to vindicate Linda or even be pro Linda. I am just concerned about the constant unChristlike behavior of Danny, Pastor Lomacang, Dr. Thomspon and others in leadership at 3ABN and the 3ABN board. Makes no difference who they wrong, they are wrong, and they need to live up to their claims. Simple!

[Aletheia]

[quote name='princessdi' date='Dec 20 2006, 06:32 PM' post='164536']
I'm sorry you are troubled, but I don't know what the employess are paid or what the houses even look like, or if they are happy or unhappy to live there, or if they can or cannot go elsewhere. Why ask me those questions I was responding to what you wrote, surely you already know the answers to those things or you wouldn't be posting about it?

[quote]Actually, it is fine that you don't have an answer, but it does tend to tie your hands as far as a defense. I am asking you because you responded to this situation by saying if they are not happy with their accommodations, then they should just move, basically. Also, by using your own experience as a simgle mother, which I also referenced. IOW, you started answering, why stop now? No, I don't know the answers, because as I keep saying, it is beyond me why Danny would offer substandard housing to his workers. [/quote]


Nobody has provided evidence regarding any of this as far as I know, including yourself who is upset at this injustice, what are you basing your words on?

[quote]We have Uncle Sam's first-hand account of the housing situation i Posts #71 and #79. Also, this is not the first time I had heard this, but I don't know that the account is as credible as Uncle Sam's first hand account. I think this type of ifnormation you have been asking for all long, Correct? Yet you still don't believe......
----------------------[/quote]

I looked at the posts you are talking about, and saw Uncle Sam's questions and Joys answers it was post 71 - 77, and honestly. I still don't know what the houses are like from that, or as compared to what and who's standards? Nor do I know Uncle Sam or anything about him. I don't just accept what people say as fact, neither do I assume they are lying. I just wait to see which it is.

I don't mean to be offensive here, and I am sorry if I came across that way. I really do think we all have the right to make choices.

And I think too many opinions seam to be based on here say from people we don't even know or know anything about. Or at least I don't.

So for myself, I choose not to repeat this, because I am not sure it's the truth or not., and I do think you were wrong to refer to Danny Shelton as a slumlord based on what I have seen written here and what you referred me to. But then that's your choice also..


As far as ownership of 3ABN goes, I guess I just don't understand how non-profit ministries and organizations opperate. I thought they supported themselves and weren't actually owned per se.

I thought there was a difference between founders and owners, but I don't know a whole lot about it, I just know Both Danny and Linda were constantly referred to as the founders and I can't find anything listing them as owners, but I have too many things on the burner to pursue it more.



~ Aletheia

[princessdi]

Then why come here, and ask for first hand evidence if you are going to turn around and just say that you then don't know who the people are? This is the world wide web. Are you kidding? at this point you would be really offended if someone accused of of trying to find out members true names, but at this point, by you rown words that willb e the only way to satisfy you.

I don't mean to be offensive either, however you need to stop asking for something no one can provide you. Just continue to believe as you do and leave it as that. Don't worry about trying to save Danny's or 3ABNs reputation. just let it go. Do as you said at first.

Nobody has provided evidence regarding any of this as far as I know, including yourself who is upset at this injustice, what are you basing your words on?
I looked at the posts you are talking about, and saw Uncle Sam's questions and Joys answers it was post 71 - 77, and honestly. I still don't know what the houses are like from that, or as compared to what and who's standards? Nor do I know Uncle Sam or anything about him. I don't just accept what people say as fact, neither do I assume they are lying. I just wait to see which it is.

I don't mean to be offensive here, and I am sorry if I came across that way. I really do think we all have the right to make choices.

And I think too many opinions seam to be based on here say from people we don't even know or know anything about. Or at least I don't.

So for myself, I choose not to repeat this, because I am not sure it's the truth or not., and I do think you were wrong to refer to Danny Shelton as a slumlord based on what I have seen written here and what you referred me to. But then that's your choice also..
As far as ownership of 3ABN goes, I guess I just don't understand how non-profit ministries and organizations opperate. I thought they supported themselves and weren't actually owned per se.

I thought there was a difference between founders and owners, but I don't know a whole lot about it, I just know Both Danny and Linda were constantly referred to as the founders and I can't find anything listing them as owners, but I have too many things on the burner to pursue it more.
~ Aletheia

[Aletheia]

Then why come here, and ask for first hand evidence if you are going to turn around and just say that you then don't know who the people are? This is the world wide web. Are you kidding? at this point you would be really offended if someone accused of of trying to find out members true names, but at this point, by you rown words that willb e the only way to satisfy you.

I don't mean to be offensive either, however you need to stop asking for something no one can provide you. Just continue to believe as you do and leave it as that. Don't worry about trying to save Danny's or 3ABNs reputation. just let it go. Do as you said at first.

1. I didn't come here asking for people to just say things, anybody can say anything, even liars and deceivers. I have only been looking for verifiable facts and evidence. My questions have been concerned with getting to that.

2. I am not trying to defend Danny personally, for I don't know him, but I can't help but notice there is an awful lot about him on this forum which hasn't been proven.

3. I am concerned about the truth and I am concerned about 3ABN's ministry and outreach, it is a wonderful tool to reach millions all over the world and I hope to see it continue to be so, to the glory Of God, and help reach his people and prepare them.

4. If people can't understand that, then I guess that's their problem, not mine.

~ Aletheia

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Dec 20 2006, 08:53 PM

[PrincessDrRe]

...It should, but not for the reason it is. It really should trouble you that someone who claims to represent Christ and your denomination is so unChrist-like to his fellow laborers in His vineyard. However, it troubles you more that I voiced my concern about the inequality. Everyone has a right to live as comfortably as they can afford. I am one who not against folks being blessed of God to be rich and even wealthy, we have president for this in the Bible. However, here again, I am disturbed by Danny's claims to be of God, and his actions. You see my concern is not to vindicate Linda or even be pro Linda. I am just concerned about the constant unChristlike behavior of Danny, Pastor Lomacang, Dr. Thomspon and others in leadership at 3ABN and the 3ABN board. Makes no difference who they wrong, they are wrong, and they need to live up to their claims. Simple!

IA!

My whole take is this....

If it's true - (and from what I've read here, investigated, and also discussed w/ others IT IS)....then in the end - with the LORD's help - IT WILL COME TO LIGHT.

If you don't believe that any of what you are reading is true - even when it is coming from FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE/EXPERIENCE then let it go. Float on.

However I do have a question....

How many of you would want Danny as your son-in-law (should he "divorce" again)?

[Joe Smith]

Joy, I can understand about working for 20 years, and accumulated things, even luxuries(my only red flag in this area was the private jet). However, transitory or not, the workers may not live like Danny, and Brandy at this point, but there still should be "decent" housing. As 3ABN promotes themselves as a leading (SDA)Christian organization, such inequalities should be none existant. it should not be the case that Danny passes housing for his employees that are barely livable to go to his own luxurious home. Modest, I can understand, but fromt he outside it should not be iommediately recignizable that they housing of any employee is less than any of us require for ourselves, especially Danny. As these folks have heeded the call to servce God at 3ABN.
BTW, Joy, Welcome to BSDA. I am sure we will get an "interesting" perspectives on things at 3ABN.

I have info on this subject....3ABN does NOT OWN that jet... they only lease it.. They couldn't afford to own it. As far as housing goes... As a rule, the employees rent local housing from whomever. Some of the 3ABN apartments are very nice and was built new less than 10 years ago. 3ABN owns VERY few houses. The old 1 or 2 ones they do own just happened to be on a peice of property that was bought for the land... not the house. Some pay rent for the house... I know I did when I worked there. I could have found something else in the community for the same money... but it was handy to rent from them. They are there by choice..


Joe

[princessdi]

1. I didn't come here asking for people to just say things, anybody can say anything, even liars and deceivers. I have only been looking for verifiable facts and evidence. My questions have been concerned with getting to that.

You came here asking for first hand accounts who what was posted here, Today, Uncle Sam gave you a first ahnd account including stating that he stayed in some very nice apartments and then visited some he was surprised tha 3ABN owned they were so bad, but that first hand account was not good en ough for you. Now, you don't know who Uncle Sam is, so he must be lying. So unless he gives you his rine,r ank and serial number, you will not belive him. You are asking for something, including yourself, that nobody is going to give here. All we know of you is Aletheia/Cindy. First hand accounts are good enough for for courts, but not for you.

2. I am not trying to defend Danny personally, for I don't know him, but I can't help but notice there is an awful lot about him on this forum which hasn't been proven.

That's what you say, we don't know you either.

3. I am concerned about the truth and I am concerned about 3ABN's ministry and outreach, it is a wonderful tool to reach millions all over the world and I hope to see it continue to be so, to the glory Of God, and help reach his people and prepare them.

Good you be concnerned, but truth is God does not need 3ABN to do His work.

4. If people can't understand that, then I guess that's their problem, not mine.

"People" here understand more than you realize. Send in the next team, this time train 'em better. I'll even give you a hint. tell them not to be concerned with the IDs of who is posting.

[PrincessDrRe]

Dead on pernt! So many folks are concerned with the id of people. Why? So they can have more "problems"/issues at work or in their life!

That's sad.

[princessdi]

Ok, I can accept most of this from you. However, I still say if there is housing that 3ABN is renting, it needs to be in decent repair, be it one or twelve. If they are not livable, don't rent them.

Respectfully, you can speak for your individual situation, but you can't speak for everyone. You honestly dont' know if they are there by choice or not.

I have info on this subject....3ABN does NOT OWN that jet... they only lease it.. They couldn't afford to own it. As far as housing goes... As a rule, the employees rent local housing from whomever. Some of the 3ABN apartments are very nice and was built new less than 10 years ago. 3ABN owns VERY few houses. The old 1 or 2 ones they do own just happened to be on a peice of property that was bought for the land... not the house. Some pay rent for the house... I know I did when I worked there. I could have found something else in the community for the same money... but it was handy to rent from them. They are there by choice..
Joe

[Fran]

~ Open Mouth Insert Foot ~

So 3ABN charges rent? Well, Well! The IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit said that 3ABN did not declare any Rental/Lease Income. Oop's.

I just love when puzzles come together in greater detail. All we have to do is listen and read it for ourselves.

Now, where, oh where, did all that rent/lease income go?

[Panama_Pete]

I have info on this subject....3ABN does NOT OWN that jet... they only lease it.. They couldn't afford to own it.
Joe

There was a time when I would just let a statement like this pass through my "filters" unmentioned. I'm talking about the part that says "They couldn't afford to own it."

However, it is important to mention that nobody from the "outside" gets into the 3ABN accounting system. It's just the word of one person saying things. While it is true that an outside firm may audit the 3ABN accounts, that auditing is not being done for us.

So, when you say, "They couldn't afford it," just realize that this is the type of information that gets implanted deep inside our brains - yours and mine - without us having any access to the books, unless we are working in the accounting department and the Loma Linda trust department and have some knowledge of the cash flow."

Personally, I'm not convinced leasing a private jet at $40,000 a month, not including all the other things, such as paying to keep pilots on 24-hour standby, fuel, landing fees, etc., really is a practice in frugality or is so much more affordable than buying a jet.

The above could, possibly, also apply to DLS Publications, Inc. DLS = Danny Lee Shelton. All we know is that we don't know.