Tommy Shelton Vindicated!, I hope. Options

[Brenda]

Eye Witness, You say their are [b]no convictions against Tommy Shelton, were there ever any charges filed against him with the arthorities? Anywhere, anytime? I want to ask you this because it is my understanding that the Clem man that wrote the letter that G. Joy has posted, is about 40 years old now. It that is true, then Clem must have been 19 or 20 when this thing was suppose to have happened. Wouldn't that just be a "consenting" adult?. Do you know anything about D. Clem? I understand that he has never been married, has never had a girlfriend, and has never even dated a girl. If I am wrong, correct me if you know about that.

Now what has Duane Clem's dating history to do with this story?

One possible answer - He is and was homosexual and was happy with what Tommy Shelton did/is alleged to have done.

Problem - this flies in the face of Duane's own testimony

Two - He was so scarred by what happened/allegedly happened that he has not felt able to form a relationship with anyone since.


Just my cogitations.

This post has been edited by princessdi: Feb 1 2007, 03:51 PM

[Grace]

[quote name='Brenda' date='Feb 1 2007, 09:40 PM' post='174410']

Now what has Duane Clem's dating history to do with this story?

My thoughts: E.W. and T.F. are desperately trying to make Duane look very bad so T.S. can look better.

Not working for me!

[eye witness]

Eye Witness,

How do you mean that if i sin i am making mockery of the gospel?

Secondly, to answer your Question yes i do, sadly must go to cross daily to confess various things.

Thirdly, it is a mockery of the gospel to have repent offender by all appearances unrepentant on top of that out proclaiming the gospel has a pastor, IF tommy has repented then i am the first to give him second chances but he has not has proven by the letter mike riva wrote in jan. 2007 so please do lower my sin or tommy's by comparing them. they are different yet all sin places a barrier between us and god. WERE the difference comes in is unrepeated of sin removes from the saving power of the gospel until such time has place ourselves back under the cross.

please do not try and defend the actions of tommy by looking for sin in my life or anyones else's it does nothing to remove tommys actions or guilt.

erik

You have said that Tommy is "unrepentant" and that it has not been proven to you that he has repented.
Do you know Tommy personally? Have you talked to him personally about this "unrepentance?" If you haven't , then maybe you have judged him wrongly. His repentance is "between" him and God, just as yours is.

[Hersheys99]

Yes the other team failed with their tactics so lets try it another way but still saying the same things. Bottom line is it DON'T Matter what their sexual preference is Tommy was married at the time & was having relationships outside of his marriage so on that grounds alone he was committing adultery in their own words. Still wrong. But to belittle the ones that have come forward with their stories & even the mom of one of the victims who was 8 or 9 at the time is just wrong of them & then they have the nerve to bring their bs in here. That dog don't hunt here.

[princessdi]

Here is the problem EW. We dont' have to know him personally. If, inded, Tommy is of the mind that his victims were "consenting" adults, and him approaching them for sex was ok because they were of age(forgetting about the married pastor part), and generally in denial about the whole situation, why would he repent? He believes he did nothing wrong.

You have said that Tommy is "unrepentant" and that it has not been proven to you that he has repented.
Do you know Tommy personally? Have you talked to him personally about this "unrepentance?" If you haven't , then maybe you have judged him wrongly. His repentance is "between" him and God, just as yours is.

[eye witness]

Here is the problem EW. We dont' have to know him personally. If, inded, Tommy is of the mind that his victims were "consenting" adults, and him approaching them for sex was ok because they were of age(forgetting about the married pastor part), and generally in denial about the whole situation, why would he repent? He believes he did nothing wrong.

Did he do anything wrong princessdi? Can you plug up the chair and pull the switch? Have you already written the prison sentence term? If you can and if you think you can then why don't you administer the punishment that you have determined? Could it be that you are no body in the judicial system who handles the crimes of the land. Are you saying that america's judicial system is lacking and you can improve on it? Are you just a bystander feeding on unfactual evidence and pointing a loaded gun at someone because your you, and you think your in the know?
Maybe your right knowing him personally has nothing to do with anything and not knowing him persoanlly puts you just as far out in left field. One person who knows it all, and can fix all is the Lord.
You know absolutly nothing if Tommy is in denial or if he isn't. It's not you forgiveness, or your determination of any facts that will make a difference in court or with God.
Involving yourself with such is just being a busy body.

[watchbird]

Did he do anything wrong princessdi? Can you plug up the chair and pull the switch? Have you already written the prison sentence term? If you can and if you think you can then why don't you administer the punishment that you have determined? Could it be that you are no body in the judicial system who handles the crimes of the land. Are you saying that america's judicial system is lacking and you can improve on it? Are you just a bystander feeding on unfactual evidence and pointing a loaded gun at someone because your you, and you think your in the know?
Maybe your right knowing him personally has nothing to do with anything and not knowing him persoanlly puts you just as far out in left field. One person who knows it all, and can fix all is the Lord.
You know absolutly nothing if Tommy is in denial or if he isn't. It's not you forgiveness, or your determination of any facts that will make a difference in court or with God.
Involving yourself with such is just being a busy body.

And do you know Di... or any of the rest of us personally? Turn your questions upon yourself. Do you for an instant think that there are not people on here who DO know Tommy personally? Is YOUR opinion the only one in the world that counts?

A pox on your attitude... be it unto you as you have tried to do to others....

............. ................

[Grace]

Involving yourself with such is just being a busy body.

Your techniques because we can't wash our hands and close our eyes to abuse being perpetrated.

[princessdi]

EW, Evidence in the form of letters from victims has been repsented here. If you have credible testimony to the contrary present it. If you don't just concede this one. Now, you dont' really believe Tommy is innocnet either, or else you would not trying to be justifying his actions, Trying to infer that Duane is gay, trying "adjust" the ages of the young men to make it "homosexual" affairs, instead of child molestation.

I am not saying anything aobut our judicial system only that in the case of the Catholic priests Somebody finally talking about it and the new media is what jumpstarted them into action.

Also, you really need to watch your tone.

Did he do anything wrong princessdi? Can you plug up the chair and pull the switch? Have you already written the prison sentence term? If you can and if you think you can then why don't you administer the punishment that you have determined? Could it be that you are no body in the judicial system who handles the crimes of the land. Are you saying that america's judicial system is lacking and you can improve on it? Are you just a bystander feeding on unfactual evidence and pointing a loaded gun at someone because your you, and you think your in the know?
Maybe your right knowing him personally has nothing to do with anything and not knowing him persoanlly puts you just as far out in left field. One person who knows it all, and can fix all is the Lord.
You know absolutly nothing if Tommy is in denial or if he isn't. It's not you forgiveness, or your determination of any facts that will make a difference in court or with God.
Involving yourself with such is just being a busy body.

[erik]

You have said that Tommy is "unrepentant" and that it has not been proven to you that he has repented.
Do you know Tommy personally? Have you talked to him personally about this "unrepentance?" If you haven't , then maybe you have judged him wrongly. His repentance is "between" him and God, just as yours is.

EW,

You are 100% correct that i do not personally know Tommy S., in fact for his sake it is lucky that i do not know him because he would be getting a earful from me about his whole mess.

Secondly, IF, IF tommy S. is repented of his actions against this young men, then HE WOULD IN NO WAY have allowed the letter written by a Mr. Mike Riva in jan. 2007. or if it was done with out his knowledge then has soon has he is aware of it he will post in a very public manner a rebutal of mr. Riva's letter.

So far that has not happened so i think it is VERY, VERY safe to have deep, deep questions about his level of repentance.

Erik

This post has been edited by erik: Feb 1 2007, 05:35 PM

[awesumtenor]

Secondly, IF, IF tommy S. is repented of his actions against this young men, then HE WOULD IN NO WAY have allowed the letter written by a Mr. Mike Riva in jan. 2007. or if it was done with out his knowledge then has soon has he is aware of it he will post in a very public manner a rebutal of mr. Riva's letter.

If he was repentant, this entire line of discussion would not have seen the light of day... these repeated attempts to conceal, deny, change the subject, condemn the victims, et cetera et cetera et cetera (think Yul Brynner in The King and I... but i digress...)

There is a reason Achan's family had to die with him; aiding and abetting is no better than the act itself... one would think a family and friends with so many numbered among them that are supposed to be so learned in the word would have picked up on that before they set out to defend Tommy by any means necessary...

But i guess when one's conscience is seared as if with a hot iron, repentance is only a fruit of getting caught...

In His service,
Mr. J

[princessdi]

I edited out he inflammatory portion of Eye Witness' post, because it was mean and meant to defame the character of Mr. Clem.

Now here is a NEWS FLASH!!!! for all of you who didn't know. Your claim that "Mr. Clem is and was homsexual therefore he liked and wanted it", is bogus. Not every homosexual wants to have sex with every man walking. That is part of a sterotype. Besides he said he didn't like at all. You need to take his word for it, they are his feelings and you should not invalidate them. Besides, it is telling of the fact that you believe Tommy did indeed approach these young men, and that he, indeed, is homosexual. Seeing as that is damagin to Mr, Shelton, you might want to let that go.That being said:

****We will have no more speculation as to the orientation of the victims who have stopped forward ****

Eye Witness, You say their are [b]no convictions against Tommy Shelton, were there ever any charges filed against him with the arthorities? Anywhere, anytime? I want to ask you this because it is my understanding that the Clem man that wrote the letter that G. Joy has posted, is about 40 years old now. It that is true, then Clem must have been 19 or 20 when this thing was suppose to have happened. Wouldn't that just be a "consenting" adult?. Do you know anything about D. Clem? I understand that he has never been married, has never had a girlfriend, and has never even dated a girl. If I am wrong, correct me if you know about that.

Now what has Duane Clem's dating history to do with this story?

One possible answer - He is and was homosexual and was happy with what Tommy Shelton did/is alleged to have done.

Problem - this flies in the face of Duane's own testimony

Two - He was so scarred by what happened/allegedly happened that he has not felt able to form a relationship with anyone since.


Just my cogitations.

[erik]

[quote name='awesumtenor' date='Feb 1 2007, 01:49 PM' post='174433']
If he was repentant, this entire line of discussion would not have seen the light of day... these repeated attempts to conceal, deny, change the subject, condemn the victims, et cetera et cetera et cetera (think Yul Brynner in The King and I... but i digress...)








AMen

[eye witness]

*****This post has been edited for content. I said that we would have no more speculation of the sexual orientation of any of the victims who have stepped forward, and I meant it. Perhaps, after a 48 hr.s time out, you will have some different conversation*****

EW,

You are 100% correct that i do not personally know Tommy S., in fact for his sake it is lucky that i do not know him because he would be getting a earful from me about his whole mess.

Secondly, IF, IF tommy S. is repented of his actions against this young men, then HE WOULD IN NO WAY have allowed the letter written by a Mr. Mike Riva in jan. 2007. or if it was done with out his knowledge then has soon has he is aware of it he will post in a very public manner a rebutal of mr. Riva's letter.

So far that has not happened so i thing it is VERY, VERY safe to have deep, deep questions about his level of repentance.

Erik

Erik, erik, erik, what you think he should do, does not make the man guilty or innocent. His level of repentance in your eyes does not make a hoot either.

EW, Evidence in the form of letters from victims has been repsented here. If you have credible testimony to the contrary present it. If you don't just concede this one. Now, you dont' really believe Tommy is innocnet either, or else you would not trying to be justifying his actions, Trying to infer that Duane is gay, trying "adjust" the ages of the young men to make it "homosexual" affairs, instead of child molestation.

I am not saying anything aobut our judicial system only that in the case of the Catholic priests Somebody finally talking about it and the new media is what jumpstarted them into action.

Also, you really need to watch your tone.

I don't know what tone I am typing in. Is it the color? I'll switch. I thought they were all there to be used. I don't type in caps. Please enlighten me on the tone. I am not pleading Tommy innocent or guilty. What has been asked is where do you stand?

[princessdi]

I don't know what tone I am typing in. Is it the color? I'll switch. I thought they were all there to be used. I don't type in caps. Please enlighten me on the tone.

I am not addressing this at all, grown folks know when they have attitude problems

I am not pleading Tommy innocent or guilty. What has been asked is where do you stand?


I stand with the fact that there are at lest four letters here from victims and relatives who have the same story aobut Tommy Shelton, and until I get some equally convincing evidence, it is more than possible that he is guilty, but it should be investigated either way. Besides, I have three of you here, not proclaiming Tommy's innocence per se, but only making him guilty of having homosexual affairs. Which means you even believe something happened. I have always said that they should not allowed him to be at 3ABN until an investigation was done. If he is innocent, so be it, if not, then we have one more sexual predator off the streets. Simple!