Tommy Shelton Vindicated!, I hope. Options

[2shine4Him]

Just curious, Duane. To what end to you intend to see this through? How far are you willing to go to see that justice is served? Do you want to see your former Pastor and friend Tommy sitting in prison? Do you want Carol to be all alone there in that home across the river? Do you want those two grandchildren to have to do without their grandfather just so your desire for "justice" can be satisfied?

Personally, I don't know whether he's guilty or not guilty. But 1 Corinthians 10:31 comes to mind: "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." When and if he lands in prison, will you be able to say that you helped put a man in prison, guilty or not, to the glory of God?

I think most everyone missed the point brother4life is trying to make. I think he is saying that, as Christians, whether SDA, Baptist, or Church of God, etc., we are all called to take the high road; to forgive as we desire to be forgiven. Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness? What should be the Christian response? Yes, we are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but even Peter in Acts 5:29 said "we ought to obey God rather than man", which says to me that God's law trumps man's law. By taking the high road, this does not mean that we are to sweep anything under the rug; and it is not a crime to want the person held accountable. Rightly so. But isn't there a right way and a wrong way to go about this? Airing dirty laundry, presumed or factual, all over the web is not the way to seek justice.

[Richard Sherwin]

And since other ways of obtaining justice failed what would you suggest? It seems that these forums are getting results. It may not be pretty but it seems to be working. If there is a better way I'd like to hear what it is.

Richard

I think most everyone missed the point brother4life is trying to make. I think he is saying that, as Christians, whether SDA, Baptist, or Church of God, etc., we are all called to take the high road; to forgive as we desire to be forgiven. Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness? What should be the Christian response? Yes, we are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but even Peter in Acts 5:29 said "we ought to obey God rather than man", which says to me that God's law trumps man's law. By taking the high road, this does not mean that we are to sweep anything under the rug; and it is not a crime to want the person held accountable. Rightly so. But isn't there a right way and a wrong way to go about this? Airing dirty laundry, presumed or factual, all over the web is not the way to seek justice.

[Seraphim7]

I think...

2shine, have you ever been sexually assualted? Do you have any children who have ever been sexually assualted? Yes or No?

[andithomas1]

I think most everyone missed the point brother4life is trying to make. I think he is saying that, as Christians, whether SDA, Baptist, or Church of God, etc., we are all called to take the high road; to forgive as we desire to be forgiven. Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness? What should be the Christian response? Yes, we are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but even Peter in Acts 5:29 said "we ought to obey God rather than man", which says to me that God's law trumps man's law. By taking the high road, this does not mean that we are to sweep anything under the rug; and it is not a crime to want the person held accountable. Rightly so. But isn't there a right way and a wrong way to go about this? Airing dirty laundry, presumed or factual, all over the web is not the way to seek justice.

I do believe this type of thinking allowed priest to have a field day molesting young boys and girls in the Catholic church for so many years. Did this help that church-NO and this type of thinking will not help 3ABN. If the accusations against this man is true-get the shackles and leg-irons and off to the big house you go.

[roxe]

No; his application of the verse is not correct. The incident Paul is alluding to in 2Cor 7 is the man in 1Cor 5 who was committing fornication with his father's wife. Taken together you see that the church's response swung from one extreme to another. In 1Cor 5, even though his sin was open and flagrant, the church did nothing. After receiving Paul's letter, the church undertook discipline on that member but did so in a manner that it was punitive and not redemptive and even after the man has manifest the fruits of repentance no forgiveness was being extended towards him. IOW, in 1Cor 5 the church thought themselves showing mercy with no thought of justice; in 2Cor 7 they have swung to the other end and are applying justice without mercy.

The text neither states nor implies that the guilty party should face no consequences; it merely points out that the purpose of church discipline is to elicit "godly sorrow" and fruits of repentance; the end result sought is the redemption of the erring member and that cannot be attained in the extremes where the action taken is punitive on the one hand or where a blind eye is turned to flagrant sin and no action is taken at all on the other.

In His service,
Mr. J

thank you , awesum, for your explanation... you a good teacher!

using scripture to justify oneself is fraught with danger.

cuz "It is God who justifies..." Rom 8:33

[calvin]

The following is sent in regard to Tommy Shelton's recent open letter to the Dunn Loring congregation.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Open Letter to Dunn Loring: three discrepancies
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:28:52 -0600
To: Tommy Shelton
CC: Mollie Steenson, Pastor Lomacang, Fallible Human Being, Joe Smith, Danny Shelton, Elder Ken Denslow, Walt Thompson

Hello Tommy.

I've taken a look at your letter now, and I can see that you have made some references to some documents that would be very helpful in potentially exonerating you. If you can forward these to me, I will see what I can to do to get them posted.

I do see some additional spots in your letter that raise some questions. For example, you write:
Since Roger Clem's letter was posted back on December 6, 2006, and since it was never signed by Pastor Dryden, I'm unsure how you can make this claim. Was this just an example of an inadvertent slip?

You write:
There are two simple reasons why you have not been able to confirm this:

1. You never contacted us to ask us about it, which is peculiar in light of your use of Matthew 18 in your letter. (Why spread unconfirmed rumors in a letter that appears to be against the spreading of unconfirmed rumors?)
2. It can't be confirmed because it simply isn't true. If you wish to know what was said, feel free to call Gailon or myself.

You write:
If this is true,

• Why did Walt Thompson tell me at the end of November 2006 that the allegations were about 30 years old?
• Why does Brad Dunning say that the incident with him, after which he immediately blew the whistle, happened in 1982-1983? Was he mistaken?

That's it for now. Hope to hear from you soon.

Bob

Just what is your point in sending these emails to DS and WT and posting them here? They have not responded in months. So why do you continue making yourself a nusiance?

[PeacefulBe]

This has got to be a joke because a no person in their right mind would come to this type of conclusion. Give me strength.

While we certainly need to respond with our own opinions, let's keep in mind that brother4life is quite young so we need to cut him a little slack while his judgement matures, IMO.

It is good that he is here, flexing his muscles, learning about the issues and being exposed to how the majority of the public at large view this saga. This may even end up having an impact on how he views the situation.

[sonshineonme]

Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness?

Hi 2shine4him and welcome!
Can you tell me what you are referring to above? Where Tommy wrote this letter asking for forgiveness from Duane? Are you asking if he did, or alluding that he did? Could you show me this letter?

[Pickle]

Just what is your point in sending these emails to DS and WT and posting them here? They have not responded in months. So why do you continue making yourself a nusiance?

It's a way to get the issues out into the open, without talking behind their back.

Note that the email in question was sent to Tommy. Of course, since Danny and Walt are involved, they have a right to get a CC of it. But the questions were directed to Tommy.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Just curious, Duane. To what end to you intend to see this through? How far are you willing to go to see that justice is served? Do you want to see your former Pastor and friend Tommy sitting in prison? Do you want Carol to be all alone there in that home across the river? Do you want those two grandchildren to have to do without their grandfather just so your desire for "justice" can be satisfied?

Personally, I don't know whether he's guilty or not guilty. But 1 Corinthians 10:31 comes to mind: "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." When and if he lands in prison, will you be able to say that you helped put a man in prison, guilty or not, to the glory of God?

You have a lot of nerve to write something like that to me. I have done NOTHING to contribute to whether Tommy spends time in prison or not. HE committed the acts, not me.

I don't need your sad stories or Scriptures taken out of context. To be blunt, this doesn't concern you, so butt out.

[erik]

You have a lot of nerve to write something like that to me. I have done NOTHING to contribute to whether Tommy spends time in prison or not. HE committed the acts, not me.

I don't need your sad stories or Scriptures taken out of context. To be blunt, this doesn't concern you, so butt out.

stand firm, Daune.

We are praying for you

Erik

[ex3ABNemployee]

I think most everyone missed the point brother4life is trying to make. I think he is saying that, as Christians, whether SDA, Baptist, or Church of God, etc., we are all called to take the high road; to forgive as we desire to be forgiven. Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness? What should be the Christian response? Yes, we are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but even Peter in Acts 5:29 said "we ought to obey God rather than man", which says to me that God's law trumps man's law. By taking the high road, this does not mean that we are to sweep anything under the rug; and it is not a crime to want the person held accountable. Rightly so. But isn't there a right way and a wrong way to go about this? Airing dirty laundry, presumed or factual, all over the web is not the way to seek justice.

On 2/7/07 in "A Suggested End To The Conflict" I posted the following:

Mystery man, thanks for your comments.

Speaking for myself, I do believe in my heart I have forgiven Tommy, but because of the very nature of what he did, he must be prevented from doing it again. It has happened over and over and over. Forgiveness does not include overlooking sin, especially when there is the potential of others being harmed.

I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you would read all the posts before insinuating that I haven't responded in a "Christian" manner.

Or, better yet, mind your own business.

This post has been edited by ex3ABNemployee: Feb 20 2007, 02:24 AM

[Grace]

You have a lot of nerve to write something like that to me. I have done NOTHING to contribute to whether Tommy spends time in prison or not. HE committed the acts, not me.

I don't need your sad stories or Scriptures taken out of context. To be blunt, this doesn't concern you, so butt out.

I like your answer, Duane. It's true, straight and simple. I especially like the part that I've underlined here. And if somebody still doesn't understand, it's because he or she doesn't want to.

Praying for you, bro!

[Observer]

Just curious, Duane. To what end to you intend to see this through? How far are you willing to go to see that justice is served? Do you want to see your former Pastor and friend Tommy sitting in prison? Do you want Carol to be all alone there in that home across the river? Do you want those two grandchildren to have to do without their grandfather just so your desire for "justice" can be satisfied?

Personally, I don't know whether he's guilty or not guilty. But 1 Corinthians 10:31 comes to mind: "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." When and if he lands in prison, will you be able to say that you helped put a man in prison, guilty or not, to the glory of God?

Forgiveness does not equate to a release from consequences.

If a church treasurer steals offerings, that person should never be a treasurer again. Their weakness has been revealed.

The Bible teaches consequences.

Life teaches consequences. I work in a hospital. I see every day the consequences of a person who has used tobacco, alcohol and illegal drugs.

Recently someone ran into my automobile while I was stopped at a stop sign. I have forgiven the person who did it. The driver's spouse hasseled me to the point where the local police came out to calm him down. He did not want me to call the State Police as they would ticket her--obviously I was seeking revenge. I have forgiven the woman who ran into me. But. her insurance company is going to pay for the repair of my car. As to what the State Police did when they arrived, that was up to them. My forgiveness did not require that I pay for the damage to my car, or that I take steps to prevent her from getting a ticket, points on her driveing record, and a potential increase in her insurance preimumn.

A Christian should forgive the person who molested them. That is part of the healing process. But, that does not mean that the Christian is required to realease thaat person from the cosequencesl. It is O.K. to forgive and press charges in: criminal court, civil court, and/or the court of public opinion. That choice belongs to the molested person, and is Biblical.

You have a lot of nerve to write something like that to me. I have done NOTHING to contribute to whether Tommy spends time in prison or not. HE committed the acts, not me.

I don't need your sad stories or Scriptures taken out of context. To be blunt, this doesn't concern you, so butt out.

Yes, you are not responsible. People are responsible for the acts that they commit, to include the consequences of those acts.

[Aletheia]

dedication Feb 18 2007, 07:22 PM

Well -- Brad may be referring to the time he was actually experiencing the problem.

Tommy may be reporting the time allegations were actually raised. Which of course would be later than the actual time the activity took place.

We know for a fact, based on Brad's account, that this cannot be true. Immediately after being propositioned, Brad left the school and went home and told his family. Thus there is no room in his account for a delay of a couple years.

The only possibility would be that Brad got the date wrong. But then we'd have other people getting their dates wrong too. Sherry Avery's account has Tommy getting caught in October 1984, and that was after there were other allegations already floating around.

Is it even possible to have the allegations occur first in September 1985, with Tommy's resignation happening that soon afterwards, followed the next month by the suspension of his credentials, given all the accounts that have been collected thus far?

It appears a bit too late to be acting so unsure of yourself, and what you have already published to the world. Bob. You've been telling everybody what's what, for months now, and it seems you are going to be sued because of it.

AFAIC your and GJ's investigation has been sloppy, and one sided from the beginning -- only seeking to find things to support the prosecution and allegations against 3ABN and all involved, instead of examining both sides and getting all the facts in a unbiased manner. The reporting is irresposible and hyperbolic and yes, just as in another recent comparison, just like and having as much merit as articles in the National Enquirer.

I have had questions about these dates since you first posted all this dirty laundry and accusations.


William Bradford Dunning:
"We then went to the West Frankfort Police Department and filed a formal complaint. To my knowledge, no charges were brought against Tommy." source: Save3ABN Not@2007

Did anyone else ever file a complaint? Not that you've reported. If that's the case then the letter of suspension in 1985 seems to be referring to Brad Dunnings complaint.

Letter of suspension October 25, 1985 "The ordination of Tommy Shelton has been suspended immediately until further notice pending the results of the official police investigation concerning criminal sexual abuse charges against him. This action is effective this day, October 25, 1985."

This action was taken for the following reasons: ...... 3. We have been advised that an investigation is underway by the West Frankfort Illinois Police Department concerning criminal sexual abuse charges against you. source: Save3ABN Not@2007


As far as Sherry Avery's statement, it seems to me you already know Duane Clem said he was the young man of 20, she was talking about and he dates that in late 1985 early 1986, after the investigation. So why are you acting confused about her date?

He also says:
"When the General Assembly of the Church of God in Illinois decided to suspend Tommy's ministerial credentials in 1985, I was one of several who wrote a letter in his defense. I was also questioned by a detective at the West Frankfort Police Department. I had been on a few overnight trips with him, and gave testimony that nothing had happened that would substantiate the allegations being made against him. At the time, this was true..." source: Save3ABN Not@2007


And, regarding Glen Drydens actions and accusations after the problems in 1985, Duane Clem also wrote:

"Your "informant", Glenn Dryden, is not a credible source of information. He also made some hideous accusations against me a few years back. They were for the same reason as the ones he is leveling against Tommy Shelton: JEALOUSY. Glenn Dryden is a spiteful, vindictive backstabber when someone crosses him. He has done this with numerous people over the past several years, and took the Ezra Church of God down nearly to the point of closure. I had to threaten him with legal action myself to get him to shut his mouth." source: Save3ABN Not@2007

"To date, I have never spoken with Dr. Walt Thompson regarding this issue, nor at any other time as best I can recall. I will say that I agree with what the unnamed individual from the Church of God reportedly told Dr. Thompson but it was NOT me, and I can honestly say I have no idea who it was." source: Save3ABN Not@2007

Walt Thompson's letter to you Bob, as quoted on your save3abn not @ 2007 website:
As I recall the events of 2003, I received a call from Brad Thorp from the General Conference telling me of Pastor Dryden's accusations. Brad appropriately told me that it was not his concern, and that it was ours to handle. As I recall, I contacted pastor Dryden and heard his side of the story following which I received the letter that is circulating. I was at 3abn at the time and spoke at length with Danny about the matter. He shared with me the details as he understood them. Whether or not I was aware of what generated the letter at that time, I do not remember. Based upon my understanding that Dryden had had a long standing feud with Tommy over factors unrelated to the above accusations, it did not seem indicated to approach the boys in question directly, having been informed that no case had ever been filed with the courts or legal disposition made. We then discussed the situation with the full board. Given the alleged events had occured many years before, attempts had been made to make things right, and no legal action had been taken, we did not see any reason to pursue the issue further nor to follow through with his recommendations. In my reply to pastor Dryden I merely thanked him for fulfilling his obligation to us. (I will make this one further comment. Whereas there are many accusations on the Internet alledging that Danny cannot be trusted, I disagree. I have known Danny now since the beginning of the ministry. Now more than 23 years. I have been fully appraised of many of the difficulties that he has faced during that time. While Danny sees things from his perspective, as we all do, he is honest and trustworthy. I have found no reason to distrust his reports to me. Yes, there are occasions when after having spoken with both sides of an issue it has been a matter of he said vs she said, but in all situations where I could know the facts, Danny has proven true.)

Subsequently, after this issue has been brought back to the forefront (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attentionm, and that person was then on the board and voted with the concensus) [Linda Shelton] I contacted the only person from the Chruch of God that I could find that knew about the situation, and who had been present and witness to the events. (Accept for pastor Dryden's personal accounts, there are apparently no other records of the allegations) The picture that was painted by that leader of the Church was exactly as portrayed earlier by Danny. Dryden was jealous of Tommy and was out to get him - a jealousy that has continued to the present. I was again informed that the DA knew about the allegations and not finding a basis, refused to act against Tommy. I have been informed that the Church of God is a congregational type or organization with different jurisdictions in different states and that there was no higher authority that I could speak with to resolve the issue further It was not entirely clear to me how that worked. I was also told that one leader pestered Tommy over and over again until Tommy voluntarily gave up his ministerial license. These are the facts as I have been able to sort them out.

Clearly as Duane first made his statements and accusations against Tommy on January 20, 2007, and said before that time he had never said this to anyone. He has nothing to do with your hyperbolic case and accusations against 3ABN, could have nothing to do with Danny's relating what he knew about past events, (unless in the role of a defender of Tommy) , or your false claim that Walt Thompson was irresponsible in checking it out, or your false claim that WT covered for DS.

"Here you can read the story of how 3ABN president Danny Shelton ended up in the present crisis. Based on the testimony of Dr. Walt Thompson, his own board chairman and staunch defender, Danny must have lied in a major way about the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations in 2003. No other explanation has been forthcoming, and it is fairly clear that such a prevarication puts 3ABN in extreme financial jeopardy if yet another alleged incident takes place....all these things pale in significance when compared to the number of young lives that are put at risk when you lie in order to cover up child molestation allegations."

What was it exactly that you are claiming was known lied about and covered up, Bob?

You are in communication with Dryden, have access to all you claim that WT did from him, and claim DS knew and lied about, and you don't even have the details, or statements regarding any of the things you are finding fault with 3 ABN for, and how long and hard have you and Joy been working on this so called "investigation" of yours????


This? The only other statement with names which you have published from a woman who first made her statement in 2007, while her son has made none? A woman who accuses and says she blames Carol Shelton for covering for her husband while stating she and her son both lied to Carol about it:


Letter of Charlotte Hopper, Mother of Greg Houseworth:
"I, like many others in the beginning of this mess, believed Tommy Shelton......When one of the boys came forward, I remember asking my son if it had happened to him. At that time he told me "no," but he said, "Mom, ***** is not lying about it!" As time went on, my son finally came to me and told me that it had happened to him.....As for Carol Shelton, all along she has covered up for Tommy. One time at church, she asked me to go down to the teenage girls' classroom. There she asked me if Tommy had done anything to my son. I, not wanting to hurt her and her children, told her "no." At a later date she asked my son to meet her at McDonalds restaurant in West Frankfort. She asked him the same question. He, not wanting to hurt her, answered her in the same way. It's funny how she never worried about all the boys in their hurts and fears! I wonder when Carol Shelton stands before the Lord, what will her answer be then!.....As far as Danny Shelton is concerned, he has always covered this up......I am the mother who went to Pastor Dryden when I learned Tommy Shelton was going to Dunn Loring. Pastor Dryden listened to what I had to say, but at that time he had no idea that my son was one of Tommy's victims. " source: Save3ABN Not@2007


How can Danny and Carol be blamed for knowing about this, when it was never said till now, and Carol asked and was lied to?

How can you in all honesty use any of this to accuse Ds, WT, and 3ABN with and try to bring them down? How can you live with what you have done and are still doing?

The words "victims" are thrown about freely, by Dryden, you and Joy, here, there and everywhere, and IF there are in fact "victims" then it needs to be dealt with, by the law and by the "CHURCH OF GOD" I have said this repeatedly.


If, as it is now appearing, this has been dealt with in the past, Leave it there or at least have the honesty to report that.

I believe you have erred greatly and are guilty of grievous sin. And I hope and pray that you and all who have been misled by you in this rush to judgment and condemnation against 3ABN in this regard, can wake up and see that before it is too late.

~ Aletheia

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 20 2007, 10:19 AM