Tommy Shelton Vindicated!, I hope. Options

[Pickle]

Like I've told you more than once, just sit on the sidelines and watch.

Why should I say that in answer to your post above?

Clearly as Duane first made his statements and accusations against Tommy on January 20, 2007, and said before that time he had never said this to anyone. He has nothing to do with your hyperbolic case and accusations against 3ABN, could have nothing to do with Danny's relating what he knew about past events, (unless in the role of a defender of Tommy) , or your false claim that Walt Thompson was irresponsible in checking it out, or your false claim that WT covered for DS.

You have confused Roger Clem with Duane Clem. Why, I don't have a clue, since you were reading the material long before Duane came forward.

Roger Clem came forward in West Frankfort in 2003 prior to the writing of the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter. He wrote a blistering letter to Tommy a year later. I am not going to be so naive as to think that Danny knew nothing about Roger Clem and his letter.

My claim regarding Walt Thompson's irresponsibility in not contacting any of the alleged victims, their families, or the two ordaining associations is true. His irresponsibility has opened up 3ABN to an enormous, potential liability in future lawsuits.

Since Walt Thompson was on the board in 1991, it is possible that he was not as ignorant as he tried to appear. In other words, it is possible that Danny did not mislead him, but that he already knew the facts. I suppose that we may get to the bottom of that one once litigation begins.

Danny and Tommy are partly to blame for any inaccuracies that might exist among the recollections of the various alleged victims and their family members. If they see a date that needs tweaking, all they have to do is let me know, and I will make sure it gets corrected.

[ex3ABNemployee]

As far as Sherry Avery's statement, it seems to me you already know Duane Clem said he was the young man of 20, she was talking about and he dates that in late 1985 early 1986, after the investigation. So why are you acting confused about her date?

I am NOT the one being referred to in Sherry Avery's letter. I know who it was, but it wasn't me.

Get your facts straight and stop trying to twist everything around.

[PeacefulBe]

I think most everyone missed the point brother4life is trying to make. I think he is saying that, as Christians, whether SDA, Baptist, or Church of God, etc., we are all called to take the high road; to forgive as we desire to be forgiven.

I doubt that anyone missed brother4life's point. Unfortunately, his point is rather misguided which I personally have chalked up to his youth and the influences around him. As he matures in his judgement and understanding of our moral and scriptural duty to reprove sin, one can only hope that he will gain a different perspective.

Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness? What should be the Christian response? Yes, we are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but even Peter in Acts 5:29 said "we ought to obey God rather than man", which says to me that God's law trumps man's law.

If the letter you are referring to is the email Tommy sent to Duane in June, 2005, I would have to ask you if you have carefully read it for yourself. If one does a cursory, surface read of the email, it certainly comes off sounding like Tommy is asking for forgiveness. However, if one reads carefully a whole different tone emerges.

I would suggest you, and others, follow the link below to carefully read the email for yourselves. Then take a look at the critique of the email by someone who read it from the perspective of one who has been molested.

http://www.save3abn.com/tommy-shelton-confession.htm

By taking the high road, this does not mean that we are to sweep anything under the rug; and it is not a crime to want the person held accountable. Rightly so. But isn't there a right way and a wrong way to go about this? Airing dirty laundry, presumed or factual, all over the web is not the way to seek justice.

How many years did this all remain under the rug? How many times did the allegations come peeking out under the edge only to be swept back under that proverbial rug and allow more victims to fall prey? When the lump in the rug gets so large from denial and surpression that people start tripping over it, it will eventually be exposed. Unfortuntely, since the problem was not handled in the proper manner over the years it has found its expression here on the internet. Just be careful who you blame for the airing.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Feb 20 2007, 11:23 AM

[awesumtenor]

I think most everyone missed the point brother4life is trying to make. I think he is saying that, as Christians, whether SDA, Baptist, or Church of God, etc., we are all called to take the high road; to forgive as we desire to be forgiven. Didn't Tommy write a letter to Duane asking forgiveness? What should be the Christian response? Yes, we are to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, but even Peter in Acts 5:29 said "we ought to obey God rather than man", which says to me that God's law trumps man's law. By taking the high road, this does not mean that we are to sweep anything under the rug; and it is not a crime to want the person held accountable. Rightly so. But isn't there a right way and a wrong way to go about this? Airing dirty laundry, presumed or factual, all over the web is not the way to seek justice.

I find it amazing that you can speak at such length to what brother4life meant considering you both alleged last night in LC 90 minutes after you posted this, that you had only just met and spoken at that time there in LC...

Can you explain this? Were you lying last night in LC; putting on an act in an effort to deceive those there?

In His service,
Mr. J

[Aunt B]

Forgiveness does not equate to a release from consequences....

A Christian should forgive the person who molested them. That is part of the healing process. But, that does not mean that the Christian is required to realease thaat person from the cosequencesl. It is O.K. to forgive and press charges in: criminal court, civil court, and/or the court of public opinion. That choice belongs to the molested person, and is Biblical.
Yes, you are not responsible. People are responsible for the acts that they commit, to include the consequences of those acts.

Thank you Gregory for explaining this so clearly. Why do people not understand this? The victim is not responsible for, nor should they try to erase the consequences for the perpetrator.
Hang in there Duane.

Aunt B

[ida]

I am NOT the one being referred to in Sherry Avery's letter. I know who it was, but it wasn't me.

Get your facts straight and stop trying to twist everything around.

It seems exasperating dealing with people who twist everyhing around!!! People who cannot think straight should not be so judgmental, should they?

[Bystander]

While we certainly need to respond with our own opinions, let's keep in mind that brother4life is quite young so we need to cut him a little slack while his judgement matures, IMO.

It is good that he is here, flexing his muscles, learning about the issues and being exposed to how the majority of the public at large view this saga. This may even end up having an impact on how he views the situation.

PB, your statement about the public at large reminds me of the one in Linda's letter that states "the world is waiting with baited breath." That pretty much nails her fantasy of such self importance. Actually, the secular world knows little about Adventist in general much less people at 3abn. Now, the adventist world is a little more realistic but your statement is once again a huge stretch. The people that do not read this junk on the internet and who watch and support 3abn far outnumber the little internet groups. When someone mentioned that Joys site had 30,000 hits or something to that affect, they fail to mention how many of those hits are from people that are disgusted and angry at the lies that they read and will never come back. Not to mention all the folks they advise to not even go there. What about all the lurkers that have come here and felt the same way.
Sorry PB, the public at large (Adventist public) is highly supportive of 3abn. If they do read anything on the internet, most are smart enough to see a smear campaign when it's right in front of their face.

[Clay]

PB, your statement about the public at large reminds me of the one in Linda's letter that states "the world is waiting with baited breath." That pretty much nails her fantasy of such self importance. Actually, the secular world knows little about Adventist in general much less people at 3abn. Now, the adventist world is a little more realistic but your statement is once again a huge stretch. The people that do not read this junk on the internet and who watch and support 3abn far outnumber the little internet groups. When someone mentioned that Joys site had 30,000 hits or something to that affect, they fail to mention how many of those hits are from people that are disgusted and angry at the lies that they read and will never come back. snip......

yeah right... which is why you spend so much time here being a Danny apologist.... you are like the slavemasters who would use the bible to perpetuate slavery..... rather than realize that the practice was an abomination.... You have defended Danny's actions right or wrong..... and some of those actions indeed have been an abomination...

[Nuggie]

I find it amazing that you can speak at such length to what brother4life meant considering you both alleged last night in LC 90 minutes after you posted this, that you had only just met and spoken at that time there in LC...

Can you explain this? Were you lying last night in LC; putting on an act in an effort to deceive those there?

In His service,
Mr. J

Give people enough rope and eventually....

[erik]

PB, your statement about the public at large reminds me of the one in Linda's letter that states "the world is waiting with baited breath." That pretty much nails her fantasy of such self importance. Actually, the secular world knows little about Adventist in general much less people at 3abn. Now, the adventist world is a little more realistic but your statement is once again a huge stretch. The people that do not read this junk on the internet and who watch and support 3abn far outnumber the little internet groups. When someone mentioned that Joys site had 30,000 hits or something to that affect, they fail to mention how many of those hits are from people that are disgusted and angry at the lies that they read and will never come back. Not to mention all the folks they advise to not even go there. What about all the lurkers that have come here and felt the same way.
Sorry PB, the public at large (Adventist public) is highly supportive of 3abn. If they do read anything on the internet, most are smart enough to see a smear campaign when it's right in front of their face.

Bystander,

DO not count your chickens before they hatch, i came here think it was a smear job,until i took the time to read what was here and there and now i KNOW were the smear job is coming from.

Erik

[Bystander]

And since other ways of obtaining justice failed what would you suggest? It seems that these forums are getting results. It may not be pretty but it seems to be working. If there is a better way I'd like to hear what it is.

Richard

Again, the phrase "it seems" to be working. Where would you get that idea, Richard. Read my other post on "how well it's working." Lots of hits mean nothing. Most Adventist believe this is a terrible thing and if "all" accusations were true that this is still wrong. You all get so caught up with each other and all your judgmental opinions, you forget, you have created your own little world here. I emphasize "little". There is a great big, "real" world where people are not caught up in accusations and speculation in the lives of people they don't even know. If you spent as much time working on your own lives as you do trashing on this forum, well, there would end up not being a forum. Which is as it should be.

[Clay]

Again, the phrase "it seems" to be working. Where would you get that idea, Richard. Read my other post on "how well it's working." Lots of hits mean nothing. Most Adventist believe this is a terrible thing and if "all" accusations were true that this is still wrong. You all get so caught up with each other and all your judgmental opinions, you forget, you have created your own little world here. I emphasize "little". There is a great big, "real" world where people are not caught up in accusations and speculation in the lives of people they don't even know. If you spent as much time working on your own lives as you do trashing on this forum, well, there would end up not being a forum. Which is as it should be.

so why aren't you there in that great big world as opposed to being here with us in our created small world? Why aren't you out there working on your own life as opposed to being an apologist for Danny? Oh I know... like the slave overseer, you have your orders from the massa in the big house.....

[PeacefulBe]

Again, the phrase "it seems" to be working. Where would you get that idea, Richard. Read my other post on "how well it's working." Lots of hits mean nothing. Most Adventist believe this is a terrible thing and if "all" accusations were true that this is still wrong. You all get so caught up with each other and all your judgmental opinions, you forget, you have created your own little world here. I emphasize "little". There is a great big, "real" world where people are not caught up in accusations and speculation in the lives of people they don't even know. If you spent as much time working on your own lives as you do trashing on this forum, well, there would end up not being a forum. Which is as it should be.

Bystander,
I'm glad you are here stating your opinions on all of this so that folks who come and visit our "little world" will have a full and clear picture of what is going on. Which is as is should be.

[PrincessDrRe]

Just curious, Duane. To what end to you intend to see this through? How far are you willing to go to see that justice is served? Do you want to see your former Pastor and friend Tommy sitting in prison? Do you want Carol to be all alone there in that home across the river? Do you want those two grandchildren to have to do without their grandfather just so your desire for "justice" can be satisfied?

Personally, I don't know whether he's guilty or not guilty. But 1 Corinthians 10:31 comes to mind: "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." When and if he lands in prison, will you be able to say that you helped put a man in prison, guilty or not, to the glory of God?

Unfortunately there are people who find this type of thinking normal.

That is - until it happens to them!

This is it in a nutshell.

Brother - will you respond the same way when your children are molested? I hope you never have to think about it....

[princessdi]

You are directing these questions to the wrong party. These questions need to be aksed of Tommy. These are things he should have conseidered before approaching young men for sex. You should also be asking Tommy was ALL he was doing to the Glory of God. There are consequences for each of our actions. The Bible also talks about what you do in the dark, coming to the light. You asking Duane that is like asking a victim of violent crime to feel badly becuase their attacker is sent to jail. You are as bad as the rest of them here. TS approached young men for sex, several of them have said so(and if there was only one, that is too many). He was wrong. Why would you attempt to make them feel guilty for reporting him? Yes, justice, IS to the Glory of God, since He is also a God of Justice. Why would you try to make the victim responsible for Tommy's transgressions? This is deplorable!

I keep saying this, and at some point one of you will listen. We would not be discussing the at all if Tommy, a married pastor, would have asked only his wife for sex. Period! But naw, we got you and the others over here, his wife over in the another thread with "stand by your man". If his wife and the rest of you want to overlook his behavior then so be it, but you must know that does not mean everyone else has to overlook it, too. In fact, it is like not raising your child properly, you do them a disservices by making them believe others will put up with the bad behovior.

Just curious, Duane. To what end to you intend to see this through? How far are you willing to go to see that justice is served? Do you want to see your former Pastor and friend Tommy sitting in prison? Do you want Carol to be all alone there in that home across the river? Do you want those two grandchildren to have to do without their grandfather just so your desire for "justice" can be satisfied?
Personally, I don't know whether he's guilty or not guilty. But 1 Corinthians 10:31 comes to mind: "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." When and if he lands in prison, will you be able to say that you helped put a man in prison, guilty or not, to the glory of God?