Corporate "worship" At 3abn, The Shelton Gang Rides Again! Options

[Clay]

FHB,
since I am sure you won't believe what is written, try this experiment.... go to your church, and I am assuming two things, one you go to church, and two, your church is white or predominately white.... go to your church, tell them that you want to invite Linda Shelton to come and speak.... see what happens..... or call some of your contacts, and ask them how welcomed Linda would be, or if she can speak in white churches.....

I am not playing the color card, but it seems like the white folks have shunned her, and they have had encouragement from someone to do that shunning.....

[Seraphim7]

FHB,
since I am sure you won't believe what is written, try this experiment.... go to your church, and I am assuming two things, one you go to church, and two, your church is white or predominately white.... go to your church, tell them that you want to invite Linda Shelton to come and speak.... see what happens..... or call some of your contacts, and ask them how welcomed Linda would be, or if she can speak in white churches.....

I am not playing the color card, but it seems like the white folks have shunned her, and they have had encouragement from someone to do that shunning.....

That sounds like something a number of people should try.

[erik]

FHB,
since I am sure you won't believe what is written, try this experiment.... go to your church, and I am assuming two things, one you go to church, and two, your church is white or predominately white.... go to your church, tell them that you want to invite Linda Shelton to come and speak.... see what happens..... or call some of your contacts, and ask them how welcomed Linda would be, or if she can speak in white churches.....

I am not playing the color card, but it seems like the white folks have shunned her, and they have had encouragement from someone to do that shunning.....

Clay,

THat is great idea i think i will bring it up at board meeting, at my church tonight.

Erik

[Ralph]

Clay,

THat is great idea i think i will bring it up at board meeting, at my church tonight.

Erik

Maybe bring along a few copies of that AT article to distribute.

[fallible humanbe...]

Clay,

Interesting. Let me give it some thought and see how to go about it, I will let you know what happens - maybe I will call the conference office as well and get their take on it. I would still like to see evidence that is substantiated rather than the unsubstantiated claims that have been made on occasion. BTW, I don't think it is completely fair to say I won't believe what is written.

Now, just because some churches do not welcome her doesn't mean she is not free to establish a ministry, nor does it indicate that someone is keeping her from it. It could be as simple as she is too conservative. After all there are more liberal churches who would never consider bringing Danny - for only the reason that 3ABN is a conservative entity within the church.

Oh yes, I do go to church. The main church I attend is probably about 70% white, 20% AA, 10% a variety of other minoritys with the largest growing one being Hispanic. The other one I attend is about 50% white and 50% minority, the largest segment being Hispanic.

- FHB

FHB,
since I am sure you won't believe what is written, try this experiment.... go to your church, and I am assuming two things, one you go to church, and two, your church is white or predominately white.... go to your church, tell them that you want to invite Linda Shelton to come and speak.... see what happens..... or call some of your contacts, and ask them how welcomed Linda would be, or if she can speak in white churches.....

I am not playing the color card, but it seems like the white folks have shunned her, and they have had encouragement from someone to do that shunning.....

The reason? He felt our local church should stay neutral in the saga.
PB

I can understand this, can't you? Notice I didn't ask you to agree with it, only if you can't see why he might make this decision. Not everyone wants to take a side in every issue that comes along and whether this is a good thing or no is a moot point.

A pastor is repsonsible for leading his flock. Maybe this is the example he has decided to set. Without talking with him and understanding the reasoning, and doing so with an open mind one can not bash them for making what they feel is the best thing for the church. He might also bring it to the whole church in a business meeting format and see what his flock would do. Then of course he is bound by his conference offices expectations and has to consider that.

There are a myrid of reasons a pastor may make a decision like this. Did you ask him why? What was his response?

- FHB

[Fran]

There are a myrid of reasons a pastor may make a decision like this. Did you ask him why? What was his response?

- FHB

Did "You" ask him why? What was his response?

[PeacefulBe]

I can understand this, can't you? Notice I didn't ask you to agree with it, only if you can't see why he might make this decision. Not everyone wants to take a side in every issue that comes along and whether this is a good thing or no is a moot point.

A pastor is repsonsible for leading his flock. Maybe this is the example he has decided to set. Without talking with him and understanding the reasoning, and doing so with an open mind one can not bash them for making what they feel is the best thing for the church. He might also bring it to the whole church in a business meeting format and see what his flock would do. Then of course he is bound by his conference offices expectations and has to consider that.

There are a myrid of reasons a pastor may make a decision like this. Did you ask him why? What was his response?

- FHB

The sort version is what I posted. While I don't have the details to review since my main computer crashed this weekend and the emails are on that drive, I will try to remember as many details as I can. I cannot swear that it will be 100% accurate but will be to the best of my recollection.

The long version is that this young man was devastated by the turn of events and responded, in his passion, by waging a what I felt was a desperate email campaign. This reached nationwide, although admittedly to a small audience. When I received the chain of emails I was chagrined to find that some were acting like my pastor was a part of some conspiracy against Linda and were publishing his personal phone numbers in an apparent attempt to flood him with calls of protest.

What I don't clearly remember is that there was something about a Northern California Conference official being involved in the decision. I know that this would be a crucial part of the story, but without my emails to refer to I can't flesh it out properly.

I made a call to my pastor the next morning to give him the heads up for a possible torrent of phone calls and to find out what his side of the story was. He informed me that he had never formally sanctioned the invitation and further that he had formed no opinion on the 3abn situation either way and felt it would be prudent for our church to remain neutral at this time.

I value the judgement of my pastor and know that he would not make such a decision lightly.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Feb 12 2007, 07:04 PM

[SoulEspresso]

Well, I'm a pastor. And I tend to believe, based on save3abn.com and what I've read here, that Linda was wronged, even if she exhibited less-than-perfect judgment. I don't pretend to know in the sense that I know things I've seen with my own eyes.

A pastor might not choose to have Linda come to his church because it would be distracting from the mission of the church. Her appearance and presence, more than what she says or sings regardless of whether the saga comes up, would get people talking about things other than what a particular local church should be doing. Even if the event were an outreach to the community, the distraction it would be to members would not be worth it.

NOW ... this stuff has to be covered. Someone has to do the work of God in bringing the truth to light, no matter who is at fault. It's just not the local church's issue; it's a job for individuals called to that, for example church journalists and message board administrators ...

I'm lurking the boards again after several months of being away, because a friend directed me to save3abn.com and I realized that I'm probably going to have to shepherd my three churches through the crap that is about to hit the fan. Secular press loves this stuff, I can't believe it hasn't come out already.

I've never been a fan of 3ABN because they are unaccountable to anyone--specifically, theologically (did anyone here read "10 Commandments Twice Removed"? Ignorant people shouldn't write books), but also financially--and now it looks like not even ASI is willing to call them on ethical problems.

Trouble is, I have myriad church members who love 3ABN and pay for people's dishes and advertise the MAP series and what-have-you, who consider them the go-to resource for things like Stop Smoking Seminars. And if the ministry goes down, my own people, in my churches, are going to get hurt.

Danny should step down, even if it's "retirement," so the work 3ABN does can go on (I'm in a different place on the theological spectrum from them, but hey, they bring people to the Lord).

Anyone who's appeared on there as a shill for him should go too (Shelley Quinn, John Lomacang), as should the board. This is not to say they're wrong (I think they are but I don't know it), but this has gotten so bad they should do something else for the Lord. For God's sake--literally.

Is there any way we can make a more-public-than-this call for these people to step down?

[PeacefulBe]

SoulEspresso,

Welcome Back! and congratulations on having 3 churches!!!

You make some excellent points and I sure do hope folks here will take note of what you have said.

I haven't read clear through The 10 Commandments Twice Removed but I'd sure like to hear what problems you have found in it.

PB

[Clay]

SoulEspresso said:

I've never been a fan of 3ABN because they are unaccountable to anyone--specifically, theologically (did anyone here read "10 Commandments Twice Removed"? Ignorant people shouldn't write books),

I love it.....

[Daryl Fawcett]

Well, I'm a pastor. And I tend to believe, based on save3abn.com and what I've read here, that Linda was wronged, even if she exhibited less-than-perfect judgment. I don't pretend to know in the sense that I know things I've seen with my own eyes.

A pastor might not choose to have Linda come to his church because it would be distracting from the mission of the church. Her appearance and presence, more than what she says or sings regardless of whether the saga comes up, would get people talking about things other than what a particular local church should be doing. Even if the event were an outreach to the community, the distraction it would be to members would not be worth it.

NOW ... this stuff has to be covered. Someone has to do the work of God in bringing the truth to light, no matter who is at fault. It's just not the local church's issue; it's a job for individuals called to that, for example church journalists and message board administrators ...

I'm lurking the boards again after several months of being away, because a friend directed me to save3abn.com and I realized that I'm probably going to have to shepherd my three churches through the crap that is about to hit the fan. Secular press loves this stuff, I can't believe it hasn't come out already.

I've never been a fan of 3ABN because they are unaccountable to anyone--specifically, theologically (did anyone here read "10 Commandments Twice Removed"? Ignorant people shouldn't write books), but also financially--and now it looks like not even ASI is willing to call them on ethical problems.

Trouble is, I have myriad church members who love 3ABN and pay for people's dishes and advertise the MAP series and what-have-you, who consider them the go-to resource for things like Stop Smoking Seminars. And if the ministry goes down, my own people, in my churches, are going to get hurt.

Danny should step down, even if it's "retirement," so the work 3ABN does can go on (I'm in a different place on the theological spectrum from them, but hey, they bring people to the Lord).

Anyone who's appeared on there as a shill for him should go too (Shelley Quinn, John Lomacang), as should the board. This is not to say they're wrong (I think they are but I don't know it), but this has gotten so bad they should do something else for the Lord. For God's sake--literally.

Is there any way we can make a more-public-than-this call for these people to step down?

It's too bad more pastors didn't see it the way you do.

[Noahswife]

My question is are there more pastors that feel the way you do? You said a friend directed you to the save3abn.com site.

nw

[sonshineonme]

Well, I'm a pastor. And I tend to believe, based on save3abn.com and what I've read here, that Linda was wronged, even if she exhibited less-than-perfect judgment. I don't pretend to know in the sense that I know things I've seen with my own eyes.

A pastor might not choose to have Linda come to his church because it would be distracting from the mission of the church. Her appearance and presence, more than what she says or sings regardless of whether the saga comes up, would get people talking about things other than what a particular local church should be doing. Even if the event were an outreach to the community, the distraction it would be to members would not be worth it.

NOW ... this stuff has to be covered. Someone has to do the work of God in bringing the truth to light, no matter who is at fault. It's just not the local church's issue; it's a job for individuals called to that, for example church journalists and message board administrators ...

I'm lurking the boards again after several months of being away, because a friend directed me to save3abn.com and I realized that I'm probably going to have to shepherd my three churches through the crap that is about to hit the fan. Secular press loves this stuff, I can't believe it hasn't come out already.

I've never been a fan of 3ABN because they are unaccountable to anyone--specifically, theologically (did anyone here read "10 Commandments Twice Removed"? Ignorant people shouldn't write books), but also financially--and now it looks like not even ASI is willing to call them on ethical problems.

Trouble is, I have myriad church members who love 3ABN and pay for people's dishes and advertise the MAP series and what-have-you, who consider them the go-to resource for things like Stop Smoking Seminars. And if the ministry goes down, my own people, in my churches, are going to get hurt.

Danny should step down, even if it's "retirement," so the work 3ABN does can go on (I'm in a different place on the theological spectrum from them, but hey, they bring people to the Lord).

Anyone who's appeared on there as a shill for him should go too (Shelley Quinn, John Lomacang), as should the board. This is not to say they're wrong (I think they are but I don't know it), but this has gotten so bad they should do something else for the Lord. For God's sake--literally.

Is there any way we can make a more-public-than-this call for these people to step down?

Soul, I admire you very much.
I wish there were more pastors that were willing to take a stand for truth AND justice, rather then play the "politically correct" safe position - don't want to get my hands dirty - thinking - we all know when you play it safe, nothing changes, and most of all, corruption continues as it is enabled by no pro-action. I can not sit still when I see injustice. At the same time, obviously, the right things need to be done. Part of it is getting information out to the people, getting people to think for themselves, and not being afraid to deal with the big problems. Simple, aye?? It can and is being done. God is working all things together.

[Voktar of Zargon]

My question is are there more pastors that feel the way you do?
nw

I guess I am compelled to come out of cyberspace and reveal my vocational identity. Yes I too am a church pastor - and a prison chaplain. I work with sex-offenders and sociopaths who are doing well-deserved time for their crimes.
SoulEspresso, I couldn't have said it all better myself. I too have church members who may be devastated when this all hits the fan. I have hesitated to deal with these issues for these very reasons. Now is the time though. At our next board meeting I will formally announce the termination of our broadcast of 3ABN radio and the clear reasons for doing so. (I inherited this station when I came to this church - never liked 3ABN for virtually the same reasons SoulEspresso expressed).
It's time for pastors to stand up and be counted. Unfortunately, I think that many of them are still in the dark about this crisis.

[Clay]

I guess I am compelled to come out of cyberspace and reveal my vocational identity. Yes I too am a church pastor - and a prison chaplain. I work with sex-offenders and sociopaths who are doing well-deserved time for their crimes.
SoulEspresso, I couldn't have said it all better myself. I too have church members who may be devastated when this all hits the fan. I have hesitated to deal with these issues for these very reasons. Now is the time though. At our next board meeting I will formally announce the termination of our broadcast of 3ABN radio and the clear reasons for doing so. (I inherited this station when I came to this church - never liked 3ABN for virtually the same reasons SoulEspresso expressed).
It's time for pastors to stand up and be counted. Unfortunately, I think that many of them are still in the dark about this crisis.

good move V of Z.......