And Yet Another Newbie Critical of BSDA Options

[Watchman]

Watchman,

I know you feel passionate about your position regarding what is taking place on this forum.

Many of us here also feel passionate about what we are doing. Many of us feel that God has put a burden on our hearts to bring truth to light so that resolution and healing can take place. Many of us believe that we, as Christians, have a duty to do just what we are doing since those who should have resolved these issues did not!

PB

Friend: As I stated earlier. Two wrongs do not make one right. Neither does the end justify the means. Neither will these means bring about a godly end, but the dishonour and displeasure of God.

[erik]

Friend: As I stated earlier. Two wrongs do not make one right. Neither does the end justify the means. Neither will these means bring about a godly end, but the dishonour and displeasure of God.

Watchman,

Then what would the correct way for this to be dealt with?


Erik

[Watchman]

Dear Watchman,

Have you considered who it was that put everything into the "international broadcasting" sphere in the first place?

Did you ever share your deep convictions with Danny Shelton, an international broadcaster, about this situation when it first became public fodder more than two years ago?

Danny Shelton should be at the top of your list, not us. Consider sending Dan those Bible verses and telling him your premise about the public broadcasting of the situation if you have not already done so.

Feel free to tell him right now: danshelton (at) earthlink.net

Friend: As I stated previously. I was witness to none of the above. If I were to contact Danny it would be more circumstantial evidence, or hearsay, which is what this website is mainly composed of. I only recently even tuned in to 3abn and then your website-- and read all the postings thereon with hearbreak for the cause of God. I can understand why certain folk on this website are upset with my postings, and why they make their careless responses. Some comments I will not even dignify with a response. Truth hurts. And caps notwithstanding, better for you to find an excuse not to read it than be confronted with truth. But ignorance of truth is not always an excuse if you COULD avail yourself of the opportunity. I do not see ANY love or concern for the souls who are reading this website and who may be possibly losing their way-- out of the Adventist message, or never even finding their way in --because of your misplaced "passion." The methodology is ALL wrong. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man..." you know the rest.

[Clay]

Friend: As I stated previously. I was witness to none of the above. If I were to contact Danny it would be more circumstantial evidence, or hearsay, which is what this website is mainly composed of. I only recently even tuned in to 3abn and then your website-- and read all the postings thereon with hearbreak for the cause of God. I can understand why certain folk on this website are upset with my postings, and why they make their careless responses. Some comments I will not even dignify with a response. Truth hurts. And caps notwithstanding, better for you to find an excuse not to read it than be confronted with truth. But ignorance of truth is not always an excuse if you COULD avail yourself of the opportunity. I do not see ANY love or concern for the souls who are reading this website and who may be possibly losing their way-- out of the Adventist message, or never even finding their way in --because of your misplaced "passion." The methodology is ALL wrong. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man..." you know the rest.

yes there is a way that seems right Watchwoman..... perhaps that could apply to you too? Just a thought... unless of course you are ready to be translated and stopped by to correct the wayward before being taken up in your flaming chariot....

Have a great day....

[erik]

Friend: As I stated previously. I was witness to none of the above. If I were to contact Danny it would be more circumstantial evidence, or hearsay, which is what this website is mainly composed of. I only recently even tuned in to 3abn and then your website-- and read all the postings thereon with hearbreak for the cause of God. I can understand why certain folk on this website are upset with my postings, and why they make their careless responses. Some comments I will not even dignify with a response. Truth hurts. And caps notwithstanding, better for you to find an excuse not to read it than be confronted with truth. But ignorance of truth is not always an excuse if you COULD avail yourself of the opportunity. I do not see ANY love or concern for the souls who are reading this website and who may be possibly losing their way-- out of the Adventist message, or never even finding their way in --because of your misplaced "passion." The methodology is ALL wrong. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man..." you know the rest.

Watchman,

So l will ask you again how should this topic be handled????

Secondly, which is more likely to blow people out of the SDA church, covering up sin or exposing has carefully has possible.

Thirdly, if you do like this format, how are you going to like when the main line press gets hold of this topic, and makr no mistake about that is were this will end up if it is not dealt with inside of the church.

erik

[PeacefulBe]

Watchwoman,

If you can clearly show what you think the proper methodology would be to handle the issue of Tommy Shelton's alleged pastoral sexual abuse, I will study it carefully and pray for wisdom to discern if it is the proper way.

How many "righteous" folk walked right past the battered victim on that New Testament road until the Good Samaritan stopped to help?

Practicing denial in the name of Christianity is an oxymoron.

Please read Matthew 25:31-46 and 1 Corinthians 5.

[Richard Sherwin]

Watchman the truth is it's people like you that cause most of the postings on here. If no one was defending Danny on here there would be but a fraction of the posts against him, since most postings are replying to the Danny appologists. It's people like you who are Danny's own worse enemy. (So keep us the good work)

Richard

[Noahswife]

Watchman the truth is it's people like you that cause most of the postings on here. If no one was defending Danny on here there would be but a fraction of the posts against him, since most postings are replying to the Danny appologists. It's people like you who are Danny's own worse enemy. (So keep us the good work)

Richard

Richard, they just do not get it.

They refuse to credit any of us with the ability to distinguish between speculation and fact. I resent that implication.

After reading Alethia's posts at yahoo early this morning, I am convinced more than ever that she does not understand she only is driving more people here. Her sarcasm in her most recent posts does not help my understanding of anything but certainly colors my evaluation of anything she has to say.

They do not understand that their F in netiquette adds nothing to their cause either.

I sometimes wonder why they do not set up their own website or blog and state what they believe to be true. They can set their rules for posters and answer questions. Since it would reflect what they believe is accurate and they could direct people there for the truth, they should not have any problem answering questions or explaining when they can't and why not.

Anyone who has ever moderated discussion knows how hard it is.

nw

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Feb 12 2007, 08:21 PM

[wwjd]

Watchman,

I know you feel passionate about your position regarding what is taking place on this forum.

Many of us here also feel passionate about what we are doing. Many of us feel that God has put a burden on our hearts to bring truth to light so that resolution and healing can take place. Many of us believe that we, as Christians, have a duty to do just what we are doing since those who should have resolved these issues did not!

PB

PB can you really say that the rumors, slander, gossip, insinuation and the use of the words: I think, it seems, I hear, looks like, it appears, to be fact telling words? Do you think the mean and sly innuendos, and the smart alec remarks, towards 3 abn are going to bring healing? Not to mention the pattern established here, that when an I feel or It appears, comes on the site everyone runs with it until it becomes a fact ,which is then dissected, eaten and purged and then set aside as, one more fact dealt with. Let's move on. And the pattern continues. If you think that any of this mess on bsda can bring resolution and healing, then, maybe, you are the author of Naive.

[PeacefulBe]

PB can you really say that the rumors, slander, gossip, insinuation and the use of the words: I think, it seems, I hear, looks like, it appears, to be fact telling words? Do you think the mean and sly innuendos, and the smart alec remarks, towards 3 abn are going to bring healing? Not to mention the pattern established here, that when an I feel or It appears, comes on the site everyone runs with it until it becomes a fact ,which is then dissected, eaten and purged and then set aside as, one more fact dealt with. Let's move on. And the pattern continues. If you think that any of this mess on bsda can bring resolution and healing, then, maybe, you are the author of Naive.

wwjd,

You left "apparently" out of your list of words. You are welcome to state your opinion here on the 3abn Forum as I am welcome to state mine. That is the way Calvin has it set up. He gets pretty unhappy when anyone uses rumors, slander, gossip and insinuation, though. Did you know that doing so can get a member banned? It's right in the Forum rules.

I read and weigh the information brought here and prayerfully try to discern if it is true or not. The Bible gives us plenty of counsel to help in this regard. My brother wwjd, I wish with all of my heart that some of what I have found here were just lies and rumors. The evidence shows it, sadly, to be true.

I do wish some how that I could show you my heart. I look at each one of the folks on 3abn, each one of the Shelton family - Tommy included - as the precious people they are. I believe that Jesus shed His blood for each and every one and I pray for all of you. Yes, dear wwjd, it is my opinion that there is some denial going on in the 3abn family and desperation is setting in. I will continue to hope and pray that you will each heed the call to make things right. Of course, this is just my humble opinion.

PB

[Watchman]

Watchman,

So l will ask you again how should this topic be handled????

Secondly, which is more likely to blow people out of the SDA church, covering up sin or exposing has carefully has possible.

Thirdly, if you do like this format, how are you going to like when the main line press gets hold of this topic, and makr no mistake about that is were this will end up if it is not dealt with inside of the church.

erik

Erik: I thought I answered your question on what I think is page 2. But I will restate it here again. That was when I was mistakenly using caps in my postings. If you go to the previous page it is under a rather lengthy statement by" Pete." There you will read the exact quote from the pen of inspiration. Briefly, we are advised that we must not take a course of of action that will expose the church to the ridicule of her enemies and cause Satan to triumph. Inspiration goes on to illustrate with Paul who wanted false teachers put out of the church. However, we are told that their influence had affected so many it would be hazardous to take action against them. Why? "There was danger of causing strife & division which would be ruinous to the spiritual interest of the church." Then the solution was given. "There was but one way to prevent these terrible evils & that was... by constant prayer seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which would lead them to love and unity....A house divided against itself cannot stand. When Christians contend, Satan comes in to take control."

[PeacefulBe]

Erik: I thought I answered your question on what I think is page 2. But I will restate it here again. That was when I was mistakenly using caps in my postings. If you go to the previous page it is under a rather lengthy statement by" Pete." There you will read the exact quote from the pen of inspiration. Briefly, we are advised that we must not take a course of of action that will expose the church to the ridicule of her enemies and cause Satan to triumph. Inspiration goes on to illustrate with Paul who wanted false teachers put out of the church. However, we are told that their influence had affected so many it would be hazardous to take action against them. Why? "There was danger of causing strife & division which would be ruinous to the spiritual interest of the church." Then the solution was given. "There was but one way to prevent these terrible evils & that was... by constant prayer seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which would lead them to love and unity....A house divided against itself cannot stand. When Christians contend, Satan comes in to take control."

Watchman, Ellen G. White says the following:

"The prejudice which has arisen against us because we have reproved the wrongs that God has shown me existed, and the cry that has been raised of harshness and severity, are unjust. God bids us speak, and we will not be silent. If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty. In vision I have been pointed to many instances where the displeasure of God has been incurred by a neglect on the part of His servants to deal with the wrongs and sins existing among them. Those who have excused these wrongs have been thought by the people to be very amiable and lovely in disposition, simply because they shunned to discharge a plain Scriptural duty. The task was not agreeable to their feelings; therefore they avoided it. {3T 265.2}"

Sounds pretty clear to me.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Feb 13 2007, 12:54 AM

[Watchman]

[quote name='PeacefullyBewildered' date='Feb 12 2007, 05:30 PM' post='177757']
Watchwoman,

If you can clearly show what you think the proper methodology would be to handle the issue of Tommy Shelton's alleged pastoral sexual abuse, I will study it carefully and pray for wisdom to discern if it is the proper way.

How many "righteous" folk walked right past the battered victim on that New Testament road until the Good Samaritan stopped to help?

Practicing denial in the name of Christianity is an oxymoron.
Please read Matthew 25:31-46 and 1 Corinthians 5.
[/quo
Friend: Once again, the point is being missed. My premise all along has been ONLY that the court of public opinion is wrong and unscriptural. Those who are personally involved in this issue, ie the alleged victims, have the right to do as they think best. The role of others who are NOT directly involved would be to follow scriptural admonitions if we believe something to be true. Matt 17:21 "Howbeit, this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." King David was an adulterer, a liar and a murderer. How did God deal with him? He dealt decisively. We seem to think that God is incapable today, & that He does not know what is going on. Thus, we take matters into our own hands. But Romans 12:19 tells us this: "Dearly beloved,avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Why do we want to run ahead of God? Psalms 11:4 --"The Lord is in His holy temple, the Lord's throne is in Heaven: His eyes behold,His eyelids try, the children of men." I am not denying anything. I have said all along and I say it again. If you were not there. If you have no first person experience. You have no valid opinion. Try going into a court of law with hearsay opinions. You will have no credibility. But IF you are concerned. Get down on your knees & pray. For the alleged victims, & the alleged abuser. Then pray for yourself that you do not fall into temptation. There but for the grace of God go you, or I. Remember, we are to love our enemies. To quote from T. Vol 4 p.163. "God will do marvellous things, for those who trust in Him. Faith is the living power that presses through every barrier, overrides all obstacles, and plants its banner in the heart of the enemy's camp. God will help His believing children in every emergency if they will place their entire confidence in Him and implicitly obey Him. God works mightily for a faithful people who obey His word without questioning and doubt."

[Watchman]

Watchman the truth is it's people like you that cause most of the postings on here. If no one was defending Danny on here there would be but a fraction of the posts against him, since most postings are replying to the Danny appologists. It's people like you who are Danny's own worse enemy. (So keep us the good work)

Richard

Friend: Once again, there is a misunderstanding. I am not on this website for Danny or 3abn or anyone connected with it. I came upon this website accidentally and then after the initial shock, stayed because I am jealous for the honour of God, for His church and for the souls of men. Furthermore, since reading many of the posts, I have become deeply concerned about many of you. I am extremely busy and rarely have time to watch 3abn. It is all quite new to me. So I am not a Danny apologist. I do not know him anymore than I know you or anything personal about either one of you. I am human. I look on the outward appearance. All I know is this: if he is indeed guilty, God will deal with him as wisely as He did with King David. As He will deal with each one of us. Permit me to close with one more quote from T. Vol.6p.153 "The earnest prayer, of contrite souls,will be lodged by the throne and God will answer these prayers In His Own Time if we cling to His arm by faith." May God be with you.

Watchman, Ellen G. White says the following:

"The prejudice which has arisen against us because we have reproved the wrongs that God has shown me existed, and the cry that has been raised of harshness and severity, are unjust. God bids us speak, and we will not be silent. If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty. In vision I have been pointed to many instances where the displeasure of God has been incurred by a neglect on the part of His servants to deal with the wrongs and sins existing among them. Those who have excused these wrongs have been thought by the people to be very amiable and lovely in disposition, simply because they shunned to discharge a plain Scriptural duty. The task was not agreeable to their feelings; therefore they avoided it. {3T 265.2}"

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Friend: I have no problem with what you quoted. I am in agreement with it. However, nowhere does she state to take out full page ads in the newspaper, which is essentially what this would have been tantamount to in her day. If you read my other posting from the previous page where she quotes the apostle Paul and the difficulty he was having with false teachers, you will quickly understand that what she means by speaking out does not mean spreading it abroad. Furthermore, how many people on this website are directly involved and know from firsthand experience what is going on at 3abn? Those who do have first hand experience absolutely must do their duty. God requires it. However,to the rest, prayer and fasting is our duty. Anything other than this is not seeking the will of God, but merely satisfying gossip.

[wwjd]

Friend: I have no problem with what you quoted. I am in agreement with it. However, nowhere does she state to take out full page ads in the newspaper, which is essentially what this would have been tantamount to in her day. If you read my other posting from the previous page where she quotes the apostle Paul and the difficulty he was having with false teachers, you will quickly understand that what she means by speaking out does not mean spreading it abroad. Furthermore, how many people on this website are directly involved and know from firsthand experience what is going on at 3abn? Those who do have first hand experience absolutely must do their duty. God requires it. However,to the rest, prayer and fasting is our duty. Anything other than this is not seeking the will of God, but merely satisfying gossip.

Watchman, I have tried over and over to make this point but seemingly to no avail. This site is overflowing with the: I think, I heard, I believe, I assume, it appears, it seems, phrases. Why do people want to do this and then say how this site just wants healing and resolution. That went out the window with this website as well as several others.
Thank you watchman for stating so eloquently what several of us have been trying to say.