And Yet Another Newbie Critical of BSDA Options

[watchbird]

Friends:

After reading the post under Calvin's Corner, --"Request from GC Legal" and the ensuing comments, particularly "Lady Tenor/Black SDA Faithful, and other offensive content on this website, I sincerely question the choice of language used. As Christians, we are called to a higher standard. People are entitled to their opinions, but how we express them, is the difference. Jesus said "that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Matt. 15:11. Jesus also said in Mark 12:31 "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." and "love your enemies" Matt. 5:44. We must speak the truth--in love-- or not at all. My prayer is that you will consider Jesus' words, and bear them in mind, as you continue to address these issues in the future. Let us never forget that Jesus Christ is our sinless example. "For we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." 1 Cor. 4:9. We are not really in an out-of-the-way-corner after all.

So who set YOU as judge over US?....... ........ ....... .......

[Observer]

Many of us here believe that we are serving our LORD and others. Many of us here feel that we are about our Father's business. We may not have control over others but by this time that we spend bringing truth to light we are having an influence!

Many of us posting here believe that God uses inperfect people, of which we are, to accomplish God's will in Earth. We do not claim that we are doing everything perfectly. But God has never required perfection in His agents. We only know that we must respond to what we believe is the call of God, and that as we respond God will use us to accomplish His purpose.

We are told to "leave it to God." We are. But, leaving it to God does not mean to do nothing. It means to respond as God has called upon us, and the ultimate resolution willl rest in God's hands.

We who are responding to what we see as the calling of God know that we are placing much at risk. 3-ABN/Danny may litigate. If so that will place the defendants under financial and emotional stress. It will not be easy. But, we simply look to God to guide in this as He has guided in our lives in the past.

At this point in time, several of us believe that litigation is likely to soon begin. It may start with four people as defendents. If this does happen, it is likely to be only the beginning of media attention, as well as civil attention that may expand beyond the expectations of those who began this part of the process. But, however it develops, God is good. God will guide. God's will will be accomplished.

Stand-by folks to see how this develops.

[Bystander]

So who set YOU as judge over US?....... ........ ....... .......

Maybe the same person that made you judge over 3abn

[2shine4Him]

Hello fellow brothers and sisters:

I am not here to judge anyone. The LORD has given us all a free will to do with as we choose. This is something that neither God nor satan can touch. We all have opinions and are free to voice them. I just want to quote Jesus from John 13:34, 35 - "A new commandment I give toyou, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." Romans 14:8, 10 says: Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves one another has fulfilled the law. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Brothers and sisters, we read in 1 Timothy 1:15 that "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Charist Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." Paul saw the degradation of sin and understood the sinfulness of human beings. This is why he placed himself first among sinners. I am certainly no better than Paul, and neither is anyone else. This includes anyone in the human race, including the Sheltons.

Romans 12:17-21 says "Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather ive place to wrath; for it is written "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

We can only give account for ourselves, but we all know what the power of prayer can do for our loved ones and our enemies. We all have skeletons. In Matthew 19:17, the Lord tells us that no one is good but One, that is, God. No one has been translated for many years, so we all have some work to do. Our characters are the only thing we are taking to Heaven with us. My prayer is that, starting with me, we will show mercy and triumph over judgment (James 2:13).

[brother4life]

Can you tell me who Duane is? How about Roger or Brad or a 25-year-old man whose pastor allegedly molested him when he was but 8-years-old.

Born and raised in or around West Frankfort, over 20 years now. I do personally know all three of the Clem boys, knew their sweet mother, and the rest of their family. Also personally know Danny, Tommy, Dr. Thompson, Linda, and several others for most of my life. Been following the situation from word of mouth of different individuals involved. Personally, I think WE all have beams in our eyes, so I won't try to remove the speck from my neighbor's eye.

This post has been edited by brother4life: Feb 14 2007, 09:57 PM

[LadyTenor]

Friends:

After reading the post under Calvin's Corner, --"Request from GC Legal" and the ensuing comments, particularly "Lady Tenor/Black SDA Faithful, and other offensive content on this website, I sincerely question the choice of language used. As Christians, we are called to a higher standard. People are entitled to their opinions, but how we express them, is the difference. Jesus said "that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Matt. 15:11. Jesus also said in Mark 12:31 "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." and "love your enemies" Matt. 5:44. We must speak the truth--in love-- or not at all. My prayer is that you will consider Jesus' words, and bear them in mind, as you continue to address these issues in the future. Let us never forget that Jesus Christ is our sinless example. "For we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." 1 Cor. 4:9. We are not really in an out-of-the-way-corner after all.

Watchman, please explain to me in detail exactly what I said that was offensive. You do not have the right to make such accusations without some sort of evidence to corroborate your allegations. Furthermore, as a member of the body of Christ, if you think I have done something offensive, you should contact me and not post it openly to all. There are numerous ways to contact members here on BSDA and you should avail yourself of them.

I'm not sure if you venture to any other forums on this site, but if you do, you will discover through my comments that I am a very upfront person who does not hide between posts...so if you want to contact me, it is quite simple...but let me make it very easy for you...

TALIA A. DICKSON
P.O. BOX 60752
PALM BAY, FL 32906
LadyTenorJD@gmail.com

This post has been edited by LadyTenor: Feb 14 2007, 10:49 PM

[LadyTenor]

If you have issues with what someone says, then take it up with that person... your blanket condemnation has been heard; some will agree and some will not... as the bible says, Let every man be persuaded in his own mind. With that in mind, your continuing to regurgitate the same thing like a cow chewing her cud is not particularly productive...

Selah.

In His service,
Mr. J

Thank you for reminding this person how Christians ought to deal with "issues" with others, whether perceived or actual....

[PeacefulBe]

Born and raised in or around West Frankfort, over 20 years now. I do personally know all three of the Clem boys, knew their sweet mother, and the rest of their family. Also personally know Danny, Tommy, Dr. Thompson, Linda, and several others for most of my life. Been following the situation from word of mouth of different individuals involved. Personally, I think WE all have beams in our eyes, so I won't try to remove the speck from my neighbor's eye.

brother4life, thank you for your reply. So, you are definitely in the thick of things there in Illinois.

What is your personal opinion about the charges against Tommy Shelton? Have you read his confession over on save3abn.com? I really am interested in your take on this. How about the article posted here yesterday from Adventist Today?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12505

If Tommy is guilty of the allegations against him, do you think it is important to get that out into the open to protect other young people from falling prey to the same abuse? This type of behavior cannot flourish when eyes are open. It depends on secrecy and intimidation to thrive. When eyes are closed, for whatever motivation, children are at risk of becoming victims.

If Tommy is guilty of the allegations against him and his brother Danny and other family members are guilty of covering up this behavior by intimidation and secrecy, allowing more and more young people to become victims and have their lives devastated, do you think it is important to get that out into the open so that people can see the true character of the guilty parties? Is keeping a secret like this to the detriment of so many young people really the Christian thing to do?

Yes, we all have beams in our eyes but I believe we still have a duty to do the right thing.

[Noahswife]

Welcome to this forum. I had read for a few months before I started posting, and even at that, I didn't jump into the deep end of the pool with words of advice on how this forum should be run. I wonder if you have taken time to look over the other twenty-odd subjects mentioned. You may feel more comfortable with Praise and Testimonies, Devotional Thoughts, Sabbath School Lesson Study, etc. I am curious to know why you chose this particular forum for your first post unless you have a specific interest in what is being discussed.

I wouldn't want you to defile your mind by wasting precious time if you believe that this is, "Idle gossip, frivolous chitchat, the cruel slander, the base innuendo, [that] weaken the intellect and corrupt the heart."

How will you feel when this hits the press, and you find that much of what you read is fact rather than fiction. Will it shake your faith? Prepare yourself, for it could easily happen.

So And, unless you feel that it is "idle gossip", do join us in the chat room. That is where you will get to know about the writers.

nw

[PeacefulBe]

Hello fellow brothers and sisters:

I am not here to judge anyone. The LORD has given us all a free will to do with as we choose. This is something that neither God nor satan can touch. We all have opinions and are free to voice them. I just want to quote Jesus from John 13:34, 35 - "A new commandment I give toyou, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." Romans 14:8, 10 says: Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves one another has fulfilled the law. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Brothers and sisters, we read in 1 Timothy 1:15 that "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Charist Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." Paul saw the degradation of sin and understood the sinfulness of human beings. This is why he placed himself first among sinners. I am certainly no better than Paul, and neither is anyone else. This includes anyone in the human race, including the Sheltons.

Romans 12:17-21 says "Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather ive place to wrath; for it is written "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

We can only give account for ourselves, but we all know what the power of prayer can do for our loved ones and our enemies. We all have skeletons. In Matthew 19:17, the Lord tells us that no one is good but One, that is, God. No one has been translated for many years, so we all have some work to do. Our characters are the only thing we are taking to Heaven with us. My prayer is that, starting with me, we will show mercy and triumph over judgment (James 2:13).

Welcome, 2shine4him! Your sweet spirit shines through in your post. Thank you for that. I hope that you have read here enough to see that we, for the most part, are not a mindless crowd of vigilantes waving torches and pitchforks on our way to destroy a perceived monster. We are also not the Tuesday morning quilting club mindlessly spreading rumor and gossip as we sip our tea and stitch our comforters. These are certainly the ways some have characterized us, but they have missed the mark.

Because I know that Jesus spilled his precious blood for every person on this Earth, those that claim Him as Savior and those choosing to follow a different master alike, I feel duty-bound to look on each person with all of the love that is humanly possible for me to muster as well.

Let me ask you to ponder a few scenarios:

If a blind man was about to step out in front of a bus, would you drop to your knees and pray for him or rush to his side and pull him out of danger?

If a loved one was selling drugs to school children, would you quote "Vengence is mine saith the Lord" and pray for God to intervene in your loved one's life or would you see how your dear one's behavior was ruining more than his own life and go to the proper authorities?

If you were aware, from the testimony of multiple young men and the confession of the former pastor himself, that this former pastor betrayed the trust of the very lambs he was to guide and protect and used them for his own gratification, would you pray for him to gain victory over this destructive behavior while parents, not knowing about his predatory ways, continue to entrust him with their children? Would you entrust him with your own children? What would Jesus expect you to do?

Can, and should, you love a sinner and yet still demand accountability for sin? Absolutely!

PB

[sonshineonme]

Welcome, 2shine4him! Your sweet spirit shines through in your post. Thank you for that. I hope that you have read here enough to see that we, for the most part, are not a mindless crowd of vigilantes waving torches and pitchforks on our way to destroy a perceived monster. We are also not the Tuesday morning quilting club mindlessly spreading rumor and gossip as we sip our tea and stitch our comforters. These are certainly the ways some have characterized us, but they have missed the mark.

Because I know that Jesus spilled his precious blood for every person on this Earth, those that claim Him as Savior and those choosing to follow a different master alike, I feel duty-bound to look on each person with all of the love that is humanly possible for me to muster as well.

Let me ask you to ponder a few scenarios:

If a blind man was about to step out in front of a bus, would you drop to your knees and pray for him or rush to his side and pull him out of danger?

If a loved one was selling drugs to school children, would you quote "Vengence is mine saith the Lord" and pray for God to intervene in your loved one's life or would you see how your dear one's behavior was ruining more than his own life and go to the proper authorities?

If you were aware, from the testimony of multiple young men and the confession of the former pastor himself, that this former pastor betrayed the trust of the very lambs he was to guide and protect and used them for his own gratification, would you pray for him to gain victory over this destructive behavior while parents, not knowing about his predatory ways, continue to entrust him with their children? Would you entrust him with your own children? What would Jesus expect you to do?

Can, and should, you love a sinner and yet still demand accountability for sin? Absolutely!

PB

Thank you for this PB.

Why is it so hard for christians to know where the healthy boundaries lie for personal actions/involvement? Why do we want to stand by (looking for good excuses and reasons at times) and do nothing? Has God called us to do nothing? It is clear in scripture that we are to do something other then just pray. Put all of the verses together (like any good SDA bible study) and you find we have a responsiblity to act where these is injustice and pain.

[2shine4Him]

Thank you for this PB.

Why is it so hard for christians to know where the healthy boundaries lie for personal actions/involvement? Why do we want to stand by (looking for good excuses and reasons at times) and do nothing? Has God called us to do nothing? It is clear in scripture that we are to do something other then just pray. Put all of the verses together (like any good SDA bible study) and you find we have a responsiblity to act where these is injustice and pain.

Prayer is the BEST thing I can do, for friends and enemies alike. Prayer is EVERYTHING, not nothing. Just because I choose not to slander people all over the web does not mean I am not doing anything. It seems to me no matter what is done, if it is posted where everyone can read it, someone has something negative to say. Therefore, I choose to lift my brother and sisters up instead of being a stumbling block. Prayer is powerful, and I believe it should come first before action. I choose to let the Lord lead in what action is being taken. I care about individuals, whether it be a the person selling drugs on the street where your child walks, or whether it is a Shelton. I never said nothing should be done. I think that God should be the one to lead in the situation, not just anyone blowing off steam on a website. And besides, you never know who your neighbor will be in heaven. Will it be you, sonshineonme? Will it be you, PB? Will it be Danny, Linda, John Doe? So, I will continue to pray. I will also continue to be greatful that the Lord is in control. By the way, I do hope that all of us will be neighbors in Heaven.

[SoulEspresso]

I would say this instead: prayer is not everything, but without it, everything is nothing.

I think some of the people on these boards have been called by the Lord to expose these things. All of us have posted stuff we're not proud of later, even if they made us or others laugh at the time--but I think most people are here because they love the Lord and other people.

If Danny were my best friend or twin brother, I'd still tell him and his friends to step down and allow a free and open inquiry into these difficulties.

But I bet they're not brave enough. I bet the press does the inquiry in the long run. (Or they publish what they've already got.)

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Feb 18 2007, 02:26 AM

[ida]

Maybe the same person that made you judge over 3abn

I am new here, and this is difficult to understand. It seem like Bystander is saying that God made Watchbird a judge over 3ABN. If this is his motion, I want to second his motion. It seem to me like Watchbird could handle that situation and thereby make an end of the mess.

This post has been edited by ida: Feb 18 2007, 04:03 AM

[Observer]

Prayer is the BEST thing I can do, for friends and enemies alike. Prayer is EVERYTHING, not nothing. Just because I choose not to slander people all over the web does not mean I am not doing anything. It seems to me no matter what is done, if it is posted where everyone can read it, someone has something negative to say. Therefore, I choose to lift my brother and sisters up instead of being a stumbling block. Prayer is powerful, and I believe it should come first before action. I choose to let the Lord lead in what action is being taken. I care about individuals, whether it be a the person selling drugs on the street where your child walks, or whether it is a Shelton. I never said nothing should be done. I think that God should be the one to lead in the situation, not just anyone blowing off steam on a website. And besides, you never know who your neighbor will be in heaven. Will it be you, sonshineonme? Will it be you, PB? Will it be Danny, Linda, John Doe? So, I will continue to pray. I will also continue to be greatful that the Lord is in control. By the way, I do hope that all of us will be neighbors in Heaven.

Do you seek medical services from a physician? Why? God is powerful enough to cure all illness, without you telling your problems to another human.

The Bible is clear: God has chosen to use humans in accomplishing His work on earth. Sometimes those humans are other Chrsitians. Sometimes those humans are the civil authorities. Sometimes those humans are people who are not Christian. Sometimes those people do not act perfectly. In any case, God choses and uses.