Thursday Night "live" 2-15-07, Fact or Fiction? Options

[Aletheia]

So does it make sense to try to discredit Adventist Today for not being affiliated with the church when 3ABN is not affiliated either?? hhhmmm... I have a fairly logical mind, I think, but I'm struggling with that one...

They were simply saying that many see the word "Adventist" on Adventist today, and assume everything in it must be official and the truth. Which of course is not true as Adventist Today is not an official magazine of the SDA organization or Church, it is independantly own and ran.

Apparently 3ABN has had problems with their reporting even before the latest article. (the piano story being one example they gave) I myself have had serious problems with many things AT has written and published over the years so I am not suprised.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 16 2007, 04:49 PM

[awesumtenor]

I myself have had serious problems with many things AT has written and published over the years so I am not suprised.

And of course you are more discerning than anyone else so anyone reading this should just avoid AToday articles on your say so?

In His service,
Mr. J

[sonshineonme]

What caught my attention last night was the effort to disassociate Adventist Today with the Seventh-day Adventist church. Not being real familiar with the sructure or internal workings of the church, can someone tell me how 3ABN's affiliation with the church compares to Adventist Today's affiliation with the church? My take-away was that 3ABN tried hard to point out that Adventist Today is not officially affiliated, but is 3ABN any more affiliated? Help!

Sorry, this is long but I felt the need to say it. Just skip my post if you want to - I don't mind. I have been stewing over this all day after that program last night. It concerns me very much that people are willing (WILLING) to be deceived. The devil has done good. He has it going on in our very midst where we will find it the hardest to see. Think on that.

Snoopy, you caught that right. In fact, it was "those that SAY" they are adventist....he was in effect deciding who was real adventism and who is not, and that comes by way of not criticizing 3abn. As Dan made sure to say "we have talked to church officials..." and so he is trying to paint the picture (be careful now, not to be deceived) that HE is with the CHURCH and those other things (websites and magazines that SAY they are SDA) are not affiliated...all the while, NEITHER IS HE. Look what his own website says. So when it's convenient you hint at affiliation and when it's not, you separate. Hmmm.

My take on Danny and his cohorts is this; only a couple probably KNOW that DS has stretched things, created innuendo (along with other "facts") and spent a lot of time convincing people that what he says is true - and well, we don't want to hurt anyone,and I'm sure that Walt believes this too???? He knew Danny wanted Linda out - and he knows DS well enough to know how stubborn and determined he is when he wants something...does Walt look like the kind of person that stands in Dans way?? The rest have BOUGHT his story, and that includes board members. Remember, HE TALKS AND TALKS and they listen and accept. Simple, isn't it. Do you think ANYONE questions him? In a word NO. Simple again, isn't it. Dan and the rest are simply very confused about 3abn=Danny Shelton. They can and should be separated, and if he loved people and the ministry, he would give it up....but since he feels he is the MOST important thing walking, and it IS all about HIM, he can defend holding his position by staying right where he is, and using those people around him to fight his fight for him - because they have been deceived and believe him. My prayer this morning was that they would be convicted - be willing to listen and act according to what the Holy Spirit shows them, and pray they have not sought after self promotion so much that they are unwilling to have the scales fall from their own eyes. They need to do their own investigation for truth. I would guess they are afraid of what they will find. They are all in deep now, with every program they commit themselves more. Makes it hard to back peddle.

Danny has made this a HUGE mess. HE has done it. NOT 3abn. But, it is very clear he is willing to take 3abn down with him, and also those he has dupped to "help him" to keep from any accountability. They are blind (some of them) and he has pushed the right religious buttons on each person, as well as those who watch, hearing what their itchy ears want to hear. I have never heard as many opposites from a man as I did last night. Almost everything he said was not true - it was opposite. He has spun things. He will continue to until the Lord puts an end to this. How patient is our God. But, all things work together, don't they? So, everyone keep doing what you also feel convicted to do - share and tell, lead people to information so they can make up their minds. I don't care that DS is willing to drag my church through the mud, because he isn't the first, and certainly not the last, and I hope that people realize that it's about GOD and truth, and NOT a man named Danny Shelton.

The ends NEVER justify the means. Be sure your sins will find you out....we all sin, but consequences can be more seroius in some situations, especially if you continue to live this type of life style with no remorse, intent to change,accountabilty or repentance. And trashing another person(s) for the sake of uplifting himself, feeding the ego, control, jealousy, pride, while supplying a network that shows programs that may be used by the Holy Spirit to lead people to Jesus is still not an ordained combination by our Lord. Jesus did not walk this kind of walk. Yet it seems ok for DS to???

[Aletheia]

Aletheia, as has quite often been the case, your FACT, is factually challenged. Last month Dan trotted out Larry Ewing to confirm the "fact" that donations are up at 3ABN and therefore the accusations on the internet has not effected 3ABN in the least. That was only last month. How can they be up last month and also be down the past few months. I am sure that everyone can see the dichotomy that exists between the two claims. So, did Danny Lee Shelton lie the first time, the second time or both times? Waiter, I'll take one from column A, one from column B and one from column C.

Sister

Month or months I'm not going to quibble over words, i am not really positive which was said, I'll watch it again and see.

In any case I had the understanding from what was said, that sometime before the last show things were good, and that they have gone down since then...

For once, Aletheia, I agree with you whole-heartedly. I just think you've missed the primary application.

One of the biggest things I see wrong with the current 3ABN culture is precisely what you address above -- the use of power to coerce folks into agreeing with the leadership. Some of this is clearly spiritual abuse -- as the recent "corporate worship." In other cases, the abuse of employees continues after these employees leave 3ABN's employ. The attempt to keep Linda from speaking at various churches is merely the tip of the iceberg.

You also appear to say that you believe the end does not justify the means. I wholeheartedly agree, and that's why it bothers me so much that Danny appears to justify his actions towards Linda, towards this step-daugher, towards ex-employees, as well as his cover-up of sexual molestation charges against his brother on the basis of 'the good 3ABN has done." He regularly cites this "good" as proof that he's not done anything wrong -- both in private and in public.

Thus, as you so clearly point out, 3ABN's pattern of behavior does not meet the standards of Christ. Thank you for this.

Inga you are entitled to your opinions and personal judgments, but I don't like nor accept you putting them in my mouth.

While I didn't watch last night, another thing that has bothered me is Dan and company's constant reference to the good work 3ABN has done, in a manner that said "Look what I have done!" Dan made it quite clear that 3ABN is his and repeatedly reminds viewers that God gave him the "dream" of 3ABN. Others of his team verify that Dan Shelton is God's chosen vessel. I have not seen them give God the glory in any way except the occasional words. Your take on the matter may differ.

As you said you didn't watch it. I myself never see anyone at 3ABN trumpeting "look what I did" or acting proud. I think they give God the glory.

I've noticed that jealous and bitter people often see, hear, and perceive things differently then others.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 16 2007, 05:50 PM

[Ralph]

I did not watch last nights show. Can someone tell me what exactly was said about Tommy?

They didn't say much. This is what I heard:

Danny: They they've said things about my brother Tommy that's terrible. In fact it's criminal what they have said. And so what they don't seem to understand is that you can make accusations all you want, but that doesn't make a person guilty and doesn't make them innocent you can defend them all you want but sometimes there's certain things that go to a court of law. What we've done is we, when we herd Adventist Today for instance was writing this article, we had our attourney write them a letter and say if you write more negative things you'lll have to answer for it because it is going to do damage to our ministry. We also wrote this this group, the fellow who is leading this little group and said, you've gotta take this stuff off the internet and it's not true. It is not accurate.

Molly: I......

Danny: Oh it's stuff. You know they say on there, Dr. Walt, for instance that that uhhhh I've told you something and you've admitted to them that I covered up some crimes or some sins or whatever [short laugh] it was I've forgot and yet you

Walt: that I covered for you?

Danny:.....yeh, that you've covered for me.

Danny: Oh it's stuff. You know they say on there, Dr. Walt, for instance that that uhhhh I've told you something and you've admitted to them that I covered up some crimes or some sins or whatever [short laugh] it was I've forgot and yet you

It appears that Danny told a fib had a senior moment when he forgot what was allegedly covered up. I found that short laugh very interesting.


This post has been edited by Ralph: Feb 16 2007, 05:48 PM

[daylily]

Ralph, did you tape the program? Was it you who said last night that you would transcribe the conversation?

What was that part where Danny made a comment about all the stuff on the Internet, etc and Dr Walt asked something like "was it true?" or "is it the truth?" I can't remember exactly what he said but Danny was clearly at a loss for words and finally made some comment.

[Ralph]

Ralph, did you tape the program? Was it you who said last night that you would transcribe the conversation?

What was that part where Danny made a comment about all the stuff on the Internet, etc and Dr Walt asked something like "was it true?" or "is it the truth?" I can't remember exactly what he said but Danny was clearly at a loss for words and finally made some comment.

Yes, it was I who said I would tape the audo. Sometimes it is hard to transcribe when two people speak at once. I don't remember that particular statement, but will at least check.

This post has been edited by Ralph: Feb 16 2007, 06:27 PM

[awesumtenor]

Mr. J said:

You really should see someone about that selective hearing of yours, Cindy...

In His service,
Mr. J
---------------------
Mr. Josey, I would suggest you watch the program again. You will find that Cindy is correct in what she said! I know because I saw it too.

yeah... that will convince someone... y'all ought to take that blind leading the blind act on the road; if it doesnt play in Peoria, it will surely play in T'ville...

In His service,
Mr. J

[daylily]

Good! I'm eager to see if I heard/remember correctly:) I had gone to bed but my husband woke me up to listen to what they were saying. It seems like Mollie cut in and saved Danny but the more I think about it the hazier it becomes! I wish I could remember where in the conversation it occurred to narrow it down for you.

Thanks for what you've already transcribed!

[awesumtenor]

Month or months I'm not going to quibble over words, i am not really positive which was said, I'll watch it again and see.

In any case I had the understanding from what was said, that sometime before the last show things were good, and that they have gone down since then...

If you are not positive what was said, you cant have an understanding of what was meant. You can assume... but until you know what was actually said, you cannot know.

Inga you are entitled to your opinions and personal judgments, but I don't like nor accept you putting them in my mouth.

She didn't put either opinions or personal judgements in your mouth, Cindy; she merely applied your statements to the 3ABN situation which is something you are unwilling or unable to do.

Whatever happens to be in your mouth is there because you put it there...

As you said you didn't watch it. I myself never see anyone at 3ABN trumpeting "look what I did" or acting proud. I think they give God the glory.

You think you're sweet and kind too... I'll pass on taking what you think as fact... and I don't think I'm alone in that.

I've noticed that jealous and bitter people often see, hear, and perceive things differently then others.

Indeed; I cant speak to jealous folk... but there are definitely bitter folk who, in their own little world dont believe themselves bitter even when myriad others around them see the reality is otherwise and tell them so...

But I'm sure your rose-colored glasses gloss right over that for you, don't they...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Richard Sherwin]

FHB while it's true that sometimes a donor specifies what certain money is used for there is nothing that says an organization has to accept the gift. If you lease a plane you are still paying for it and it's still expensive. No one has forced that jet on Danny.

I've never heard of any SDA org owning or flying a jet, some have used piston twins. I know the Georgia Cumberland Conference has had a couple. (Unfortunately the last one they owned ended up in trees with serious loss of life). If it made economic sense for them to do so they would, but it does not. Somewhere on here it was stated that the Citation VI is leased for $40,000 per month, and that does not include hanger space, pilots, jet fuel, insurance, hourly fees etc.

Richard

Secondly, the plane, as has been stated on BSDA many times, is leased and is not owned by 3ABN much less Danny himself. I would be curious to find out how many ministries (of all denominations) own or lease a jet that is used by the leaders of that ministry. Is it that far fetched an idea? There is also the fact that many times donations are made by individuals that are provided with specific requirements. For instance, on last nights program it was pointed out that an individual donated 60K dollars and required that it be used for community projects. Every large organization within a community does this kind of thing - and I believe it is even more appropriate for a ministry of the Adventist church to do this.

[Aletheia]

If you are not positive what was said, you cant have an understanding of what was meant. You can assume... but until you know what was actually said, you cannot know.
She didn't put either opinions or personal judgements in your mouth, Cindy; she merely applied your statements to the 3ABN situation which is something you are unwilling or unable to do.

Whatever happens to be in your mouth is there because you put it there...


You think you're sweet and kind too... I'll pass on taking what you think as fact... and I don't think I'm alone in that.
Indeed; I cant speak to jealous folk... but there are definitely bitter folk who, in their own little world dont believe themselves bitter even when myriad others around them see the reality is otherwise and tell them so...

But I'm sure your rose-colored glasses gloss right over that for you, don't they...

In His service,
Mr. J

Mr J, For some reason you seem to think the topic of every thread you respond to me in, is me.

It is not, please detatch yourself from my rear bumper and move along...

[awesumtenor]

Mr J, For some reason you seem to think the topic of every thread you respond to me in, is me.

It is not, please detatch yourself from my rear bumper and move along...

Nope; I don't turn a blind eye to error spoken where i can hear it... so no free pass for you.

As for what's attached to your rear bumper... it ain't me because both of my feet are on the ground... and that is the only part of me that would come nigh your rear bumper...


In His service,
Mr. J

[Fran]

ID,

It seems as if you will get your wish. If 3ABN is truly willing to enter into legal action, they do so with the intent of presenting their evidence in court. This of course will mean waiting as evidence is exchanged between the two sides and strategy is paid out. So, we will not be seeing it any time soon I would image - but it is obvious it will be known.

- FHB

There you go; speaking my language again. The "KEY WORD" in your post is "PAID".

Where is your proof that we will "EVER" see/hear the proof?

What about this is "obvious"?

Is your opinion "from personal experience"?

Can you give us "a case in point" that does not relate to 3ABN, but shows "where evidence is always shown"?

Will the "documented evidence be certified by others" that are not associated with 3ABN?

We need to call "CSI" to make sure! They always find the "truth"!

Who do you think will "get paid"?

[PeacefulBe]

FHB while it's true that sometimes a donor specifies what certain money is used for there is nothing that says an organization has to accept the gift. If you lease a plane you are still paying for it and it's still expensive. No one has forced that jet on Danny.

I've never heard of any SDA org owning or flying a jet, some have used piston twins. I know the Georgia Cumberland Conference has had a couple. (Unfortunately the last one they owned ended up in trees with serious loss of life). If it made economic sense for them to do so they would, but it does not. Somewhere on here it was stated that the Citation VI is leased for $40,000 per month, and that does not include hanger space, pilots, jet fuel, insurance, hourly fees etc.

Richard

Does anybody know if they sold the jet that they actually owned? I seem to remember reading that it was supposed to be too small to be practical, or something.