Save3abn Website Uses Blackmail Tactics, 3abn better not go to Court! Options

[LaurenceD]

How well I understand, watchbird.

Back to the archives. There's really QUITE a story in there! Wish I had time to read all the responses. But, everything I'm seeing confirms my worst fears.

Re the Board of Directors, how much sense does it make for the GM to ask the BoD for approval...when she'll be voting on the very item being requested?

:shrug:

(good ole boys (and girls) club, me thinks)

[watchbird]

How well I understand, watchbird.

Back to the archives. There's really QUITE a story in there! Wish I had time to read all the responses. But, everything I'm seeing confirms my worst fears.

Re the Board of Directors, how much sense does it make for the GM to ask the BoD for approval...when she'll be voting on the very item being requested?

:shrug:

Oh, I dunno. Seems to me it makes a lot of sense..... then she can tell the world that the board approved of what she did.

Rmember the warning.... "Truth is stranger than fiction"..... it's not likely that your "worst fears" are really "worst" enough.... so ... take it slowly. The human psyche can only handle so much at once.

Keep your strength up....... ..............

[PrincessDrRe]

....If you are in doubt I'll post some material Danny has written to me. Or I'll bring it for the hearing?

Don't show your whole hand. SAVE some for the hearing....

[Fran]

"Director" would (should) be different than "board member." None of the board members were revealed in the record, except Chairman Walt Thompson. The following is quoted from the Recommendation, page 6...

The four directors of the corporation listed in the articles are Danny L. Shelton, Kenneth Joel Shelton, Linda Shelton, and Emma Lou Shelton2. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 2)

9. The officers of the applicant are a chairman and chairman-elect of the board; a
president, elected by the board; one or more vice presidents; a secretary; and treasurer. The board chairman is the chief policy officer of the corporation. The president is the chief executive officer of the corporation and the direct executive representative of the board in the management of applicant. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 3)

10. The president’s duties include carrying out all policies established by the board and
advising on the formation of those policies; developing a plan for the conduct of activities of the corporation and recommending changes when necessary; preparing, reviewing, and evaluating written plans for specific objectives of applicant; preparing the annual budget; selecting, employing, supervising, and discharging personnel; maintaining physical properties; supervising the financial affairs of applicant; attending meetings and presenting periodic reports of the applicant; attending meetings of the board and serving as an ex officio member of committees; being a member of the executive committee; and acting as a liaison for the corporation. He is also the designee: “To affix the signature of the Corporation to all papers and instruments, including promissory notes of the Corporation in writing that may require the same.” (Applicant’s Ex. No. 3; Tr. pp. 95-96)

11. The president designates the duties of the vice president. The secretary performs duties customarily performed by or required of corporate secretaries. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 3)

12. Danny Shelton is the president of applicant. Linda Shelton is the vice president.
Neither Linda nor Danny is an ordained minister. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 12; Tr. pp. 36, 39, 590-591)

2 No information was offered as to who Emma Lou and Kenneth Joel Shelton are. The oral testimony was that in 2000 and 2001, applicant’s eleven to twelve member board was made up of Seventh-day Adventists laymen, business people, church employees, and former church employees. Some of applicant’s board members are and were Seventh-day Adventists’ pastors. The board meets 3-5 times a year. (Tr. pp. 92-95, Danny Shelton; Tr. pp. 499-501, Walter Thompson).

The names of the board members, other than Mr. Thompson, in 2000 and 2001 were not in evidence and, in fact, applicant only submitted the names of Danny Shelton, Linda Shelton, Kenneth Joel Shelton, and Emma Lou Shelton as the four directors of 3ABN.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf

Laurence D;

This has been one of my questions since I first read the lawsuit in 2004. I believed the reports of Danny & 3ABN about Linda until I read this document. I even called and spoke to Mom Ford to encourage that poor, faithful, husband that had been so betrayed.

Then I read this document. It changed everything in my eyes. I am an accountant and reading this document made the hair on my back stand straight up; my stomach started burning; I began to cry tears of sorrow and hurt for Christ for having another Judas betray him again; I started having nightmares; my head began to ache; I started praying because I felt so small and helpless; this, mind you, is my personal opinion of what I read.

I still cry, "Why, Lord, Why?"

1. Why were only 4 mentioned instead of the 11-12 mentioned in the footnotes?

Danny, himself answered this on TV! Right there for everyone around the world to hear. He said they were citing the original Incorporation Documents from way back when 3ABN first began! Yep, he did say that! He said he didn't know why, but that was a lie. However, the footnotes of these legal finding tell the truth.

Anyone reading through the IL vs. 3ABN Tax Lawsuit, they will find scattered all through this document and foot notes words similar to these, "... Was not provided ..." It means it was asked for, but they were stonewalled by not providing what was needed. Otherwise, why else would they say they were not provided?

The reason they cite a document that was from the start up of 3ABN is because THAT IS THE DOCUMENT THEY, 3ABN, PROVIDED THE AUDITORS!

Notice that Judge Rowe could not figure out where Danny Shelton ended and where 3ABN began because they appeared to be one and the same. Therefore, she uses “Applicant” instead of 3ABN or Danny Shelton.

… “Danny Shelton, president of Three Angels Broadcasting, (hereinafter referred to as the "Applicant" or “3ABN”); (Synopsis p #1, sentence 2)

(Fran’s note: Danny=President=Applicant=3ABN. Confused? They all equal Danny Shelton.)


They did not provide ANY information as to the other names. Folks, how hard is it to say, “Kenneth Shelton is my brother.”

You have to understand something here. Kenneth and his wife were removed from 3ABN in 1989! He, at one time was a Seventh-day Adventist. However, he and his church were removed from the IL Conference of Seventh-day Adventist. (Bystander, correct me here if need be. I have slept since I received the details of this event. Hopefully Kenny & family have returned to the truth.) As for the statement, “Did not provide,” in the document, I am fully aware of what that means.

2. Now the question begs to be asked: “Why were the board members not named?”

"The names of the board members, other than Mr. Thompson, in 2000 and 2001 were not in evidence and, in fact, applicant only submitted the names of Danny Shelton, Linda Shelton, Kenneth Joel Shelton, and Emma Lou Shelton as the four directors of 3 ABN. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 2; p #6)

There could be several reasons for this; none of which are good. From my reading of the document, Danny did not want them contacting those other Board Members. It is clear to me that Walt is the only one of the board members allowed to speak to the auditors/investigators taking statements.

So, we have clear evidence that documents and names were withheld from the people asking for information. Does this sound familiar to anyone here on this board? IMO, they have really practiced the art of stonewalling. However, it is only getting more obvious and is no longer working.

I have many more comments and questions. However, I am sure that you, Laurence S are more qualified than me, and you can report yourr findings much better than I can. Continue on.

[LaurenceD]

Laurence D;

This has been one of my questions since I first read the lawsuit in 2004. I believed the reports of Danny & 3ABN about Linda until I read this document. I even called and spoke to Mom Ford to encourage that poor, faithful, husband that had been so betrayed.

Then I read this document. It changed everything in my eyes. I am an accountant and reading this document made the hair on my back stand straight up; my stomach started burning; I began to cry tears of sorrow and hurt for Christ for having another Judas betray him again; I started having nightmares; my head began to ache; I started praying because I felt so small and helpless; this, mind you, is my personal opinion of what I read.

I still cry, "Why, Lord, Why?"

1. Why were only 4 mentioned instead of the 11-12 mentioned in the footnotes?

Danny, himself answered this on TV! Right there for everyone around the world to hear. He said they were citing the original Incorporation Documents from way back when 3ABN first began! Yep, he did say that! He said he didn't know why, but that was a lie. However, the footnotes of these legal finding tell the truth.

Anyone reading through the IL vs. 3ABN Tax Lawsuit, they will find scattered all through this document and foot notes words similar to these, "... Was not provided ..." It means it was asked for, but they were stonewalled by not providing what was needed. Otherwise, why else would they say they were not provided?

The reason they cite a document that was from the start up of 3ABN is because THAT IS THE DOCUMENT THEY, 3ABN, PROVIDED THE AUDITORS!

Notice that Judge Rowe could not figure out where Danny Shelton ended and where 3ABN began because they appeared to be one and the same. Therefore, she uses “Applicant” instead of 3ABN or Danny Shelton.

… “Danny Shelton, president of Three Angels Broadcasting, (hereinafter referred to as the "Applicant" or “3ABN”); (Synopsis p #1, sentence 2)

(Fran’s note: Danny=President=Applicant=3ABN. Confused? They all equal Danny Shelton.)
They did not provide ANY information as to the other names. Folks, how hard is it to say, “Kenneth Shelton is my brother.”

You have to understand something here. Kenneth and his wife were removed from 3ABN in 1989! He, at one time was a Seventh-day Adventist. However, he and his church were removed from the IL Conference of Seventh-day Adventist. (Bystander, correct me here if need be. I have slept since I received the details of this event. Hopefully Kenny & family have returned to the truth.) As for the statement, “Did not provide,” in the document, I am fully aware of what that means.

2. Now the question begs to be asked: “Why were the board members not named?”

"The names of the board members, other than Mr. Thompson, in 2000 and 2001 were not in evidence and, in fact, applicant only submitted the names of Danny Shelton, Linda Shelton, Kenneth Joel Shelton, and Emma Lou Shelton as the four directors of 3 ABN. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 2; p #6)

There could be several reasons for this; none of which are good. From my reading of the document, Danny did not want them contacting those other Board Members. It is clear to me that Walt is the only one of the board members allowed to speak to the auditors/investigators taking statements.

So, we have clear evidence that documents and names were withheld from the people asking for information. Does this sound familiar to anyone here on this board? IMO, they have really practiced the art of stonewalling. However, it is only getting more obvious and is no longer working.

I have many more comments and questions. However, I am sure that you, Laurence S are more qualified than me, and you can report yourr findings much better than I can. Continue on.

Appreciate your input, Fran.

I didn't realize DS had offered the same explanation on TV that Bystander did a few pages back here. I don't believe Bystander when he says it was a huge oversight of the Judge and the attorneys to rely on the wrong board records. Obviously, both the Judge and the attorney knew there were a variety of 11-12 board members at the time of the trial, not six or so made up of a family. She mentions them as all being from different backgrounds, and she even went so far as to say the board wasn't impartial. That's why I asked watchbird why 3abn doesn't correct this perception.

BTW, here's the list of boardmembers provided by beartrap a year or two ago. Perhaps he has some light to shed here...

Former 3ABN Board Members

1. Kenny Shelton - Co-founder of 3ABN, and Danny Shelton's brother. Fired by Danny.
2. Emma Lou Shelton - Kenny Shelton's wife. Left with her husband.
3. Goldie Seddon - Danny Shelton's mother. Left with Kenny.
4. Stan Smith - Wealthy businessman/financial supporter. Resigned.
5. Bob Ford - Wealthy businessman/financial supporter. Resigned.
6. Donna McNielus - Wealthy philanthropist/financial supporter. Had a program on 3ABN. Resigned.
7. Owen Troy - Former Communications Director of the NAD. Had a stroke and resigned.
8. Linda Shelton - Co-founder of 3ABN and ex-wife of Danny Shelton. Fired over accusation of marital infidelity.
9. All of the Illinois conference presidents since the founding of 3ABN... up to the current one.

This list is to the best of my memory. It is possible that I forgot some.

*****************

3ABN Board Members

1. Danny Shelton - 3ABN founder, and board member since 1985
2. Walter Thompson - Board member for around 17 years. Board Chairman. Retired surgeon, and producer of several programs on 3ABN
3. May Chung - Board member for around 20 years. Wealthy philanthropist, financial supporter of 3ABN and Danny Shelton, and host of a program on 3ABN
4. Bill Hulsey - Board member for close to 20 years. Wealthy businessman and financial supporter of 3ABN
5. Ellsworth McKee - Board member for close to 20 years. Former board chairman. Wealthy philanthropist and financial supporter of 3ABN
6. Larry Welch - Board member for close to 20 years. 3ABN employee, former lay pastor and drywall worker.
7. G. Ralph Thompson - Board member for close to 15 years. Retired undersecretary of the GC.
8. Kenneth Denslow - Board member since he became president of the Illinois Conference. His parents both work for 3ABN
9. Merlin Fjarli - Board member since 2004. Wealthy philanthropist and financial supporter of 3ABN
10. Nicholas Miller - Board member since 2004. 3ABN attorney.
11. Mollie Steenson - Board member since 2004. 3ABN General Manager, and has programs on 3ABN
12. Carmelita Troy - Board member since 2004. Daughter of former board member, Owen Troy. Teaches accounting at the U.S. Naval Academy Post Graduate School
13. Larry Ewing - Board member since 2004/2005. 3ABN Finacial Director
14. Wintley Phipps - Board member since 2005. Singer and pastor. Recipient of 1 million dollars from 3ABN, and proposed director of a proposed new network.

-source--see the Unauthorized thread pinned at the top of forum, scroll down near bottom of list

[watchbird]

Appreciate your input, Fran.

I didn't realize DS had offered the same explanation on TV that Bystander did a few pages back here. I don't believe Bystander when he says it was a huge oversight of the Judge and the attorneys to rely on the wrong board records. Obviously, both the Judge and the attorney knew there were a variety of 11-12 board members at the time of the trial, not six or so made up of a family. She mentions them as all being from different backgrounds, and she even went so far as to say the board wasn't impartial. That's why I asked watchbird why 3abn doesn't correct this perception.

BTW, here's the list of boardmembers provided by beartrap a year or two ago. Perhaps he has some light to shed here...

Former 3ABN Board Members

1. Kenny Shelton - Co-founder of 3ABN, and Danny Shelton's brother. Fired by Danny.
2. Emma Lou Shelton - Kenny Shelton's wife. Left with her husband.
3. Goldie Seddon - Danny Shelton's mother. Left with Kenny.
4. Stan Smith - Wealthy businessman/financial supporter. Resigned.
5. Bob Ford - Wealthy businessman/financial supporter. Resigned.
6. Donna McNielus - Wealthy philanthropist/financial supporter. Had a program on 3ABN. Resigned.
7. Owen Troy - Former Communications Director of the NAD. Had a stroke and resigned.
8. Linda Shelton - Co-founder of 3ABN and ex-wife of Danny Shelton. Fired over accusation of marital infidelity.
9. All of the Illinois conference presidents since the founding of 3ABN... up to the current one.

This list is to the best of my memory. It is possible that I forgot some.

*****************

3ABN Board Members

1. Danny Shelton - 3ABN founder, and board member since 1985
2. Walter Thompson - Board member for around 17 years. Board Chairman. Retired surgeon, and producer of several programs on 3ABN
3. May Chung - Board member for around 20 years. Wealthy philanthropist, financial supporter of 3ABN and Danny Shelton, and host of a program on 3ABN
4. Bill Hulsey - Board member for close to 20 years. Wealthy businessman and financial supporter of 3ABN
5. Ellsworth McKee - Board member for close to 20 years. Former board chairman. Wealthy philanthropist and financial supporter of 3ABN
6. Larry Welch - Board member for close to 20 years. 3ABN employee, former lay pastor and drywall worker.
7. G. Ralph Thompson - Board member for close to 15 years. Retired undersecretary of the GC.
8. Kenneth Denslow - Board member since he became president of the Illinois Conference. His parents both work for 3ABN
9. Merlin Fjarli - Board member since 2004. Wealthy philanthropist and financial supporter of 3ABN
10. Nicholas Miller - Board member since 2004. 3ABN attorney.
11. Mollie Steenson - Board member since 2004. 3ABN General Manager, and has programs on 3ABN
12. Carmelita Troy - Board member since 2004. Daughter of former board member, Owen Troy. Teaches accounting at the U.S. Naval Academy Post Graduate School
13. Larry Ewing - Board member since 2004/2005. 3ABN Finacial Director
14. Wintley Phipps - Board member since 2005. Singer and pastor. Recipient of 1 million dollars from 3ABN, and proposed director of a proposed new network.

-source--see the Unauthorized thread pinned at the top of forum, scroll down near bottom of list

(First a technical note Laurence..... you can give the precise url of any post by clicking on the post # which appears in the upper right-hand corner of each post. That will open a dialogue box with the url of that post, which you can then paste into your response.)

As to the current board members, I know that Nick Miller has resigned... must be about a year ago now. I'm not sure if there have been other changes or not.

[sister]

(First a technical note Laurence..... you can give the precise url of any post by clicking on the post # which appears in the upper right-hand corner of each post. That will open a dialogue box with the url of that post, which you can then paste into your response.)

As to the current board members, I know that Nick Miller has resigned... must be about a year ago now. I'm not sure if there have been other changes or not.

The current Board of Directors are:

Danny Shelton, President
Mollie Steenson, General Manager of 3ABN
Larry Welch, Pastoral Department of 3ABN
Walter Thompson(Chairman of the Board)
Kenneth Denslow, Illinois Conference President
May Chung
Wintley Phipps
Merlin Fjarli
Carmelita Troy
Ellsworth McKee
Bills Hulsey

As you will notice, the top six people named all have potential conflict of interest issues--in varying degrees-- with regard to their position on the Board of 3ABN:

1. Danny Shelton is the president of 3ABN
2. Mollie Steenson employed as the General Manager of 3ABN, is a member of the Illinois Conference Committee, a long time intimate friend of Danny Shelton, husband is employed at 3ABN and she receives a substantial salary, by 3ABN standards
3. Larry Welch is employed at 3ABN and a long time friend of Danny Shelton and receives a substantial salary, by 3ABN standards
4. Walter Thompson has done programming at 3ABN and has a permanent free apartment in the 3ABN compound
5. Kenneth Denslow's parents are long-term, full time volunteers at 3ABN and have recently received a new RV to travel in for 3ABN
6. May Chung has her own program on 3ABN

Also take into consideration the Board only meets three times a year and is not involved in the daily operations of 3ABN. The Board depends upon it's information from prepared reports that must first pass the scrutiny of Danny Shelton, if there are areas he disagrees with, the reports are returned to the department heads for correction. Danny controls all information that is submitted to the Board.

[Bystander]

[quote name='sister' date='Mar 3 2007, 01:02 PM' post='181989']
The current Board of Directors are:

Danny Shelton, President
Mollie Steenson, General Manager of 3ABN
Larry Welch, Pastoral Department of 3ABN
Walter Thompson(Chairman of the Board)
Kenneth Denslow, Illinois Conference President
May Chung
Wintley Phipps
Merlin Fjarli
Carmelita Troy
Ellsworth McKee
Bills Hulsey



As you will notice, the top six people named all have potential conflict of interest issues--in varying degrees-- with regard to their position on the Board of 3ABN: WRONG

1. Danny Shelton is the president of 3ABN

All Presidents are on the boards of the company they work for. That isn't conflict of interest, it's policy

2. Mollie Steenson employed as the General Manager of 3ABN, is a member of the Illinois Conference Committee, a long time intimate friend of Danny Shelton, husband is employed at 3ABN and she receives a substantial salary, by 3ABN standards

Mollie worked for years before her husband came on board and before she became General Manager. She has enough education, training and experience to work wherever she pleases, so doesn't have to be dependent on 3abn.

3. Larry Welch is employed at 3ABN and a long time friend of Danny Shelton and receives a substantial salary, by 3ABN standards

"By 3abn standards" is certainly the key words for his salary. And that is for approx 20 years of service. And anyone that knows Larry knows he hasn't and never will be a yes man, when he disagrees with something.

4. Walter Thompson has done programming at 3ABN and has a permanent free apartment in the 3ABN compound

Now, this, is a good one. Walt is a semi retired doctor/surgeon. He has done a minute amount of programs through the years to the point, that it isn't a factor. The apartment was already addressed here before. There is no apartment kept for him year around. He stays in whatever is available when he visits. And, Why wouldn't 3abn give him a place to stay when he is there? All the board members that are not employees, volunteer their time. As chairman, Dr. Walt devotes more time than anyone. Of course 3abn should "put him up" in a place to stay when he is there. Not to mention, he will also see anyone that is sick for no fee. Regardless, after being a doc all of these years, I doubt if a free night or 2 in an apartment makes it a conflict of interest for Doc Walt. I am quite sure, he can pay his own way.


5. Kenneth Denslow's parents are long-term, full time volunteers at 3ABN and have recently received a new RV to travel in for 3ABN

Now this statement is just wrong. Lets start with the fact that the Denslow parents are retired VOLUNTEERS. That means they don't get paid so they have no financial interest in this at all. They travel all the time for 3abn and have always done so in an older rv that had begun to have mechanical problems. Last year someone "donated" an RV to 3abn. It too, was older, but in good shape. The Denslows were given that one to travel in since it was in better shape. To say they were given a "new" RV is a lie. They don't get paid and do not travel in a new RV so how is that a conflict of interest for Kenneth?

6. May Chung has her own program on 3ABN

May is a wealthy woman who travels around most of the year, building orphanages and churches and attending church events where she encourages others to help in this work. I doubt that her "appearing" on 3abn once in a while is going to make her support a ministry that she disagrees with. Again ridiculous. She, as well as several others on the board, do not need 3abn to do anything for them. They have their own means.



Also take into consideration the Board only meets three times a year and is not involved in the daily operations of 3ABN. The Board depends upon it's information from prepared reports that must first pass the scrutiny of Danny Shelton, if there are areas he disagrees with, the reports are returned to the department heads for correction. Danny controls all information that is submitted to the Board.

Wrong again. Facts, figures, expenses are not changed, period. Does anyone really think that DS would have time to go through stacks of papers from all the departments, then figure out how to "doctor" the books, (as sister is insinuating) Then re submit them to the Departments heads and make them all, falsify information? And I guess all of them would just go along with that?
Now, he might change the order of topics to be covered or something to that affect, that has no bearing on any of the facts presented.
AS far as DS controls what is submitted, get real. The board has many professional business people. Some set on several boards of different organizations or, their own businesses, such as Ellsworth McKee. They "know" what is standard procedure at board meetings. They know what information should be presented, how it should be done, and all the necessary facts and figures that 3abn is required to present. Everything done is done professionally and in accordance with the bi laws that apply. DS couldn't control the circumstances, if he wanted too. Sister, you insult these people when you make such ludicrous statements.

[Pickle]

3ABN Board Members

...

10. Nicholas Miller - Board member since 2004. 3ABN attorney.

...

Laurence, Nicholas Miller was forced to resign more than a year ago because Danny took extreme exception to Nick's trying to clean up some of the corruption.

Bystander is scared to comment on that one.

[YogusBearus]

Laurence, Nicholas Miller was forced to resign more than a year ago because Danny took extreme exception to Nick's trying to clean up some of the corruption.

Bystander is scared to comment on that one.

Having followed this mess for the last six months, I've come to the conclusion that it is just about the MONEY. How can Danny stop the public examination of his dirty secrets so his cash cow doesn't dry up. The faithful contributors will not be quick to abandon his ship, but when they start, it will be a landslide and they'll never go back. I would suggest that this is the real fear in danny land.



Maybe Mr. M and family can just buy the operation and run it the way they want.



-Yogus

[Observer]

I do not have the time now to post a comment on how corporate Boards are constituted in the seccular world. So, I will make one short comment.

In the corporate world, the CEO of a company will typically be on the Board, and often in the role of Secretary. That is not a conflict of interest in the typical corporate board, as it is commonly constituted.

[Snoopy]

"Director" would (should) be different than "boardmember."

Just curious, Laurence - in your opinion, what is the difference?

[Snoopy]

Then I read this document. It changed everything in my eyes. I am an accountant and reading this document made the hair on my back stand straight up; my stomach started burning; I began to cry tears of sorrow and hurt for Christ for having another Judas betray him again; I started having nightmares; my head began to ache; I started praying because I felt so small and helpless; this, mind you, is my personal opinion of what I read.

I still cry, "Why, Lord, Why?"

Fran,

I've only been reading here for a few weeks, but I thought you sounded like a numbers person! A good friend of mine from academy became an accountant and I also dated one for a little while - very detailed people! I used to work with a lot of business folk - learned a lot from them! It sounds like you have done quite a bit of research on the 3ABN mess. Anyway, just wanted you to know I appreciate your insights.

Snoopy

[LaurenceD]

"Director" would (should) be different than "boardmember."

Just curious, Laurence - in your opinion, what is the difference?

Snoopy, when I think of a "director," I think of positions like Finance Director, Public Works Director, Human Resource Director, Planning Director, Director of Foreign Affairs, FBI Director, etc., etc. These titles refer to officers who generally manage (administer) the business, and work under a General Manager. Staff meetings, or executive meetings, would be different than BoD meetings, and for a whole different internal purpose.

I come from the public background, not the private, so my perspective is perhaps more from that angle. There are very strict rules associated with public govermental agencies. I realize private corporations can be structured however one wants them to be, but I feel that Non-Profit and Not-For-Profit organization/corporations, esp educational, medical, and religious, owe the public more accounability than those set up for profiteering. 3abn is a NFP corporation that misused it's tax-exempt land use designations, by law. It was running a for-profit business, like any other regular private business.

W/O seeing their bylaws, I'd say their "directors" would be the people who operate the business, and the "boardmembers" should be impartial people who give them direction, set the policies, approve/disapprove all contract, and approve all expenditures. And this, by virtue of its very structure, would offer some checks and balances in the system.

In gov't, there is a simple rule: the board sets the policy, administration carries it out.

Take a look at the structure of shools, hospitals, and churches, etc. Board members represent the stockholders. Administration takes care of the daily operations according to how the stockholders want them to operate. Why is not the BoD made up solely of the staff? To make sure there are checks and balances, to make sure staff and administration is not feathering their own nests with money, provided by the constituency, intended for other purposes. Policy makers set the goals and establish the visions for the staff and adminstration to carry out. By contrast, in a baseball club, the owners do this, not some impartial board.

So, this is why the Judge looked at the structure of 3abn, say they had no "impartial" board, and probably linked this to part of the cause of their misguided pursuits. They had no checks and balances.

The people who support a ministry expect accountibility as in "His life was an open book."

[Fran]

Snoopy, when I think of a "director," I think of positions like Finance Director, Public Works Director, Human Resource Director, Planning Director, Director of Foreign Affairs, FBI Director, etc., etc. These titles refer to officers who generally manage (administer) the business, and work under a General Manager. Staff meetings, or executive meetings, would be different than BoD meetings, and for a whole different internal purpose.

I come from the public background, not the private, so my perspective is perhaps more from that angle. There are very strict rules associated with public governmental agencies. I realize private corporations can be structured however one wants them to be, but I feel that Non-Profit and Not-For-Profit organization/corporations, esp educational, medical, and religious, owe the public more accountability than those set up for profiteering. 3abn is a NFP corporation that misused it's tax-exempt land use designations, by law. It was running a for-profit business, like any other regular private business.

W/O seeing their bylaws, I'd say their "directors" would be the people who operate the business, and the "boardmembers" should be impartial people who give them direction, set the policies, approve/disapprove all contract, and approve all expenditures. And this, by virtue of its very structure, would offer some checks and balances in the system.

In gov't, there is a simple rule: the board sets the policy, administration carries it out.

Take a look at the structure of schools, hospitals, and churches, etc. Board members represent the stockholders. Administration takes care of the daily operations according to how the stockholders want them to operate. Why is not the BoD made up solely of the staff? To make sure there are checks and balances, to make sure staff and administration is not feathering their own nests with money, provided by the constituency, intended for other purposes. Policy makers set the goals and establish the visions for the staff and administration to carry out. By contrast, in a baseball club, the owners do this, not some impartial board.

So, this is why the Judge looked at the structure of 3abn, say they had no "impartial" board, and probably linked this to part of the cause of their misguided pursuits. They had no checks and balances.

The people who support a ministry expect accountability as in "His life was an open book."

I think I will call you Paul as in Paul Revere! Get on your horse and RIDE! Scream the new far and near! Accountability! Shout it out loud!

I agree with the organizational structure you have outlined. In fact every one I have been associated with uses a structure along the lines of what you have outlined. My background is from the Federal Government (Several Agencies), Not-for-Profit Businesses, Churches, Ministries, Schools, and Private Businesses.

3ABN needs a LOT of education. YOU GO LAURENCE D!