Amazing Facts News Release, www.amazingfacts.org Options

[mozart]

beginning last 27 Nov 06, watchbird and i engaged in a discussion about this over on Maritime... it is in the member only forum entitled "Independent Ministries". the thread name is "Abberant Doctrines & 3ABN?"

i think there are other threads within that same forum which speak on this topic also.

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/forums/ubbthreads.php

you can find the "register" button on this webpage along with the other navigation buttons, at the top of the page immediately below the forum logo.

thank you kindly roxe

[roxe]

you're welcome, mozart

glad to help...

[mozart]

thank you kindly roxe

i can't seem to find a thread called independent ministries there

[roxe]

i can't seem to find a thread called independent ministries there

mozart, you need to be registered member in order to see and read that forum... which is why i mentioned above about the register button...

can you see the "3ABN Issues Factual Information" forum on the main page? after you are registered, you will see the Independent Ministries forum just above that one.

This post has been edited by roxe: Apr 25 2007, 12:05 AM

[Aletheia]

This may be my harshest statement on here and i don't mean it that way it's just some things are harsh and this one is serious. I believe SHELLY QUINN IS POSITIONING HERSELF TO BE THE NEXT ELLEN WHITE. There's no,no,no,not any comparison. She's made me uncomfortable from the first time i laid eyes on her. i said; "that woman makes me nervous. that's a woman looking for fame. and she is, of course, deceived. (i would compare her to David Koresh being Christ incarnate) just beware ppl be very aware.

Intersetingly enough people said the same about Linda Shelton, and going by the testimony of who she repeated it to, she liked it.

But where S.Q. is concerned, you are off base. The Lord rebuke you. This is nothing more but evil surmising, and misjudging of motive and intent.

Perhaps you should examine your own motive and intent, for you are accoutable for every single, idle word..

[awesumtenor]

Intersetingly enough people said the same about Linda Shelton, and going by the testimony of who she repeated it to, she liked it.

You heard Linda say this? Oh... wait... that's right; you've never met or talked to Linda in your life.

But where S.Q. is concerned, you are off base. The Lord rebuke you. This is nothing more but evil surmising, and misjudging of motive and intent.

Given the accusation you just threw at Linda, your statement here is hypocritical in the extreme... have you no shame, Cindy?

Perhaps you should examine your own motive and intent, for you are accoutable for every single, idle word..

Physician, heal thyself...

In His service,
Mr. J

This post has been edited by awesumtenor: Apr 25 2007, 07:24 AM

[PeacefulBe]

Yep, things have certainly spiced up since Cindy returned.

[mozart]

for you are accoutable for every single, idle word..

I ABSOLUTELY AM.

Intersetingly enough people said the same about Linda Shelton, and going by the testimony of who she repeated it to, she liked it.

you referring to linda in this way is "nothing more but evil surmising, and misjudging of motive and intent." and just plain lying. i don't believe a word. you absolutely made this up just to rebuff me. you live in another world AL.

But where S.Q. is concerned, you are off base. The Lord rebuke you.

if HE does, i'll accept it, but you don't give God orders, do you?

Perhaps you should examine your own motive and intent, for you are accoutable for every single, idle word..

Accountable, I am. Idle I am not.

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 25 2007, 07:07 PM

[Grith]

News Release: 4/25/2007 Frequently Asked Questions #1

Since announcing the intention to unite the ministries of Amazing Facts and 3ABN, we have received numerous good questions from ministry friends. Unfortunately, it is not practical to answer every e-mail in detail, but in the interest of transparency and keeping you informed, we have done our best below to provide some answers to the most common questions. Please keep checking our website regularly for updates as news develops.

Q. What is the estimated timeline for the proposed union?
A. All operations at both ministries will continue as normal for the next few months while subcommittees consider legal, organizational, and transitional issues. With God's blessing, we hope to have the details finalized as soon as possible.

Q. Does this mean Amazing Facts will move to Illinois or 3ABN will move to California?
A. No. There are beneficial reasons for both ministries to maintain a campus in their present locations; thus, there are currently no plans to transplant either ministry. However, some aspects of the ministries could be combined in the future for better efficiency and stewardship of God’s resources.

Q. Does the proposed union mean control of 3ABN will be assumed by the SDA denomination?
A. No. Both Amazing Facts and 3ABN will fall under a new board to be led by laity. Although Amazing Facts and 3ABN are self-funded entities, both organizations are supportive of the denomination and encourage people to be active at their local church. This policy will continue under the new union. New bylaws are being prepared to preserve that grassroots principle of lay leadership.

Q. Is Doug Batchelor the new president of 3ABN?
A. No. Danny Shelton is still the president of 3ABN. Mr. Shelton is recommending Pastor Doug for the position of president of the new united organization, but this is a decision that must ultimately be confirmed by the new constituency and board.

Q.Will Doug Batchelor move to Illinois?
A. This is unlikely. Pastor Doug recognizes that should he accept this position, it will involve additional travel. He has spoken with his church and family about the added commitment this union would require on his part. His congregation understands this will reduce some percentage of his time at Sacramento Central, where he has served for nearly 14 years. However, Pastor Doug believes he can do more in serving the interests of global evangelism and church revival by maintaining his connection with church members while still employed as an active pastor.

Q. Will Amazing Facts or 3ABN change their name?
A. Both entities have strong name recognition. There are no plans at this time for either ministry to lose its unique identity or branding through this partnership.

Q. Will the union of these two ministries cause a change in 3ABN programming?
A. The programming at 3ABN is continually being evaluated and improved as the network strives for the highest production quality and content. New programs are introduced every month. This policy will continue in the new partnership.

Q. Will 3ABN continue to be open to and supportive of the many other ministries of the Seventh-day Adventist Church?
A. Absolutely! 3ABN will continue to welcome, uphold, and broadcast the many SDA ministries who are proclaiming the end-time truths God has entrusted to our Church.

Q. Why unite/partner if so many things will remain the same?
A. These two ministries complement each other highly in many areas. Uniting the evangelistic message and mission of Amazing Facts with the worldwide platform of 3ABN is an exciting opportunity that will surely impact the world for God’s kingdom. In the past, Amazing Facts has actively explored the possibility of a 24-hour television network, while 3ABN has recently considered launching an evangelism training center. Each organization will now be able to share in the strengths of its partner. A united board will mean common goals and objectives, resources will be used more effectively, and combined ventures will have greater success. (We are currently preparing a more detailed explanation of the benefits for this union.)

Q. I typically receive a monthly letter from both Amazing Facts and 3ABN. Now that these two ministries are moving toward uniting, how should I respond with my monthly support?
A. Please remember that Amazing Facts and 3ABN are each sustained financially entirely by friends like you. Neither ministry receives any denominational or corporate support. At this time, the finances of both ministries will continue to be run separately. However, both will now need your generous support. Especially during this time of transition, and as we make bold evangelistic plans for the future, we will urgently need your continued help for both ministries. Please continue to give as you always have (or more, if possible) to see us through this time.

[Grith]

Pastor Doug believes he can do more in serving the interests of global evangelism and church revival by maintaining his connection with church members while still employed as an active pastor. (bolded words my emphasis)

I have had much respect for DB. I have been blessed by his revival series in the past. But a question arises. In the latest press release, there is no indication that matters which have been written about here at BSDA and at save3abn.com will be addressed or investigated. (Of course, I understand that they might not want to "show their hand" if there are such plans.) Can anyone who desires to bring about revival in the church be effective in such a venture if they are, at the same time, ignoring blatant and open sin in people who are highly visible without and within the church? Especially if they are people with whom they are closely associated in ministry?

[Clay]

I have had much respect for DB. I have been blessed by his revival series in the past. But a question arises. In the latest press release, there is no indication that matters which have been written about here at BSDA and at save3abn.com will be addressed or investigated. (Of course, I understand that they might not want to "show their hand" if there are such plans.) Can anyone who desires to bring about revival in the church be effective in such a venture if they are, at the same time, ignoring blatant and open sin in people who are highly visible without and within the church? Especially if they are people with whom they are closely associated in ministry?

good observation....

[Pickle]

Q. Does the proposed union mean control of 3ABN will be assumed by the SDA denomination?
A. No. Both Amazing Facts and 3ABN will fall under a new board to be led by laity. Although Amazing Facts and 3ABN are self-funded entities, both organizations are supportive of the denomination and encourage people to be active at their local church. This policy will continue under the new union. New bylaws are being prepared to preserve that grassroots principle of lay leadership.

If the merger will not put 3ABN under the control of the denomination, does that mean that the merger will take Amazing Facts away from denominational control?

Or will 3ABN remain lay led and Amazing Facts remain a denominational entity while both become a single lay-led entity under the control of a board that is not a denominational entity?

Does anyone know how a denominational entity can be lay led and under the control of a board that is not a denominational entity?

[watchbird]

If the merger will not put 3ABN under the control of the denomination, does that mean that the merger will take Amazing Facts away from denominational control?

Or will 3ABN remain lay led and Amazing Facts remain a denominational entity while both become a single lay-led entity under the control of a board that is not a denominational entity?

Does anyone know how a denominational entity can be lay led and under the control of a board that is not a denominational entity?

I think it is one of the illusions that many of us have had, that, since Doug Batchelor is an employed Adventist minister, that the ministry, Amazing Facts, must be a denominational entity. That is simply not the case. And the merger with 3abn shows very clearly that it is not the case.

For background in how the relationship between 3abn and the denomination has developed during the years, it would be instructive.... for those who have not done so yet.... to look up the documents on this site that were created in 1997. Briefly, in the spring of 97, Folkenberg tried to get 3abn to sign a contract with the church organization. 3abn refused, with Bill Hulsey writing a letter of explanation as to why an independent ministry would not consider having any kind of contract with the church organization. That letter also is on this site. We do not, however, have any of the correspondence that we are told continued on through the following months... culminating in an agreement between the two entities. We do, however, have the final document, which was signed by Folkenberg and the next two highest men in the church. It seems apparent that 3abn itself authored this, for essentially it was a very one-sided document... giving the church no lines of control over 3abn, but giving 3abn a blank check promise to promote them in all Divisions of the world.... which 3abn has used as their entry permit into churches around the world.

Interestingly enough.... this agreement was seemingly never questioned after Folkenberg was forced out of office just a few months later due to some shady negotiations with which he had been involved.

And all of this negotiation in 1997 needs to be set in the context of certain earlier private letters which I have personally seen, in which Folkenberg was expressing great displeasure because 3abn had refused a request for 3abn to include Al McClure, in his position as NAD President, to be included as a board member of 3abn!


The official questions and answers which are posted above which indicate that the new merged entities will remain as "supporting ministries" and will NOT become denominational entities... and also the statement about having a board that is composed of lay members... strongly suggests that 3abn is once more determined to not allow the church org to have any official voice in the direction they intend to go... and certainly no ability to control anything that they might do in the future.

Thus once more, the church is giving away its rights and obligations to retain responsibility for how it is represented to the world. The question arises, is this because they are already powerless to have any say in this matter? or.......


Again... more questions are raised than are answered with each new set of "answers" we get.

.................................

[PeacefulBe]

I have had much respect for DB. I have been blessed by his revival series in the past. But a question arises. In the latest press release, there is no indication that matters which have been written about here at BSDA and at save3abn.com will be addressed or investigated. (Of course, I understand that they might not want to "show their hand" if there are such plans.) Can anyone who desires to bring about revival in the church be effective in such a venture if they are, at the same time, ignoring blatant and open sin in people who are highly visible without and within the church? Especially if they are people with whom they are closely associated in ministry?

Girth,
I share your concern. I truly hope that the following sentiments are not really how Doug Batchelor feels about allegations of sinful behavior being discussed here and elsewhere on the internet. Others over on Christian Forums have made similar declarations. I hope that Doug will answer for himself at some point so we get his position on the allegations first hand.

On 4/20/2007 at 4:07PM PDT, steffan said:
SNIP
So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index...dpost&p=192236

On 4/20/2007 at 7:31PM PDT, PeacefullyBewildered said:
Steffan,
I thought you lived in New York. Have you moved to the Thompsonville area so that you have first-hand knowledge of all that you have said below?
AND
Your statement that I have bolded above causes me some concerns. Do you have first hand knowledge from Doug Batchelor and his AF team that they are not worried about allegations and that they know they are false and shrug off the people behind it? Are these statements you have heard for yourself?
PB
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index...dpost&p=192255


On 4/20/2007 at 7:57PM PDT, steffan said:
And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index...dpost&p=192262

[PeacefulBe]

The official questions and answers which are posted above which indicate that the new merged entities will remain as "supporting ministries" and will NOT become denominational entities... and also the statement about having a board that is composed of lay members... strongly suggests that 3abn is once more determined to not allow the church org to have any official voice in the direction they intend to go... and certainly no ability to control anything that they might do in the future.

Thus once more, the church is giving away its rights and obligations to retain responsibility for how it is represented to the world. The question arises, is this because they are already powerless to have any say in this matter? or.......
Again... more questions are raised than are answered with each new set of "answers" we get..................................

WB,

Who will ensure that these two ministries are actually representing and will continue to represent the doctrines of our church to the world wide audience? Are the board and constituency/layity going to be able to accomplish that?

So, potentially, there is to be a more powerful force with the uniting of these two ministries, which will be promoted by the SDA denomination, which will continue to be allowed to hold rallies in SDA churches, which will continue to gladly accept tithe, and yet - thanks to Folkenburg's 1997 contract negotiating skills - which will continue to allow little to no denominational oversite.

Well, one upside is of course that, at the present time, both ministries are still bringing new members into the SDA church.