Lawsuits Filed Options

[Eirene]

There may be more truth to what you are saying than you realize, Eirene. When people lose sight of the real mission, and lose the connection with Christ and lose sight of his original purpose, and the mammon of unrighteousness has found a home with the cold calculated logical heart, there may be no choice but for so-called Christians to go to the law to settle their differences. Christ had nothing to lose by turning the other cheek in light of accusations, but you have everything to lose. Best save the business.

There may be more truth to what you are saying than you realize Laurence. Yes I am sad to say Pickle and Joy did lose site of what they say they started out to do and because of that, it would seem they did lose their connection with Christ. So you are right. Sometime christians are forced to go to the law with their differences. Where you are wrong is that there is not a "business" to lose. It is a ministry of saving souls. Souls are what can be lost here. The souls that might not be reached except through the far reaches of 3abn and the souls that are in jeopardy because of the allegations and out right lies people have told on the ministry and it's personal.
And BTW Laurence, aren't you one of those who said you didn't think 3abn would bring a suit because they couldn't "risk" the "truth" coming out?
MMMhh Guess they are not afraid of "truth" afterall.

[LaurenceD]

In spite of the youthful pretention, Eirene, I'm sure you haven't missed the point, nor the parallel. And I'm sure you know who actually went to the law to settle these differences. And no, your memory appears to have been influenced by your partisanship. What I didn't say has not served you well.

[Eirene]

In spite of the youthful pretention, Eirene, I'm sure you haven't missed the point, nor the parallel. And I'm sure you know who actually went to the law to settle these differences. And no, your memory appears to have been influenced by your partisanship. What I didn't say has not served you well.

And I am quite sure you haven't missed the point. Yes Pickle pointed out who went to the law. You see, it is the party being slandered and lied about that "goes to the law" as you put it. The one doing the slandering does not go to the "law" because you see, they are breaking the law. So, the injured party is the one that "goes to the law", as a last resort of course, when the slanderers refuse to stop breaking the law.
As for my memory, I ask if you were one of the people because I wasn't completely sure without going back and reading all of your posts which I would just as soon, not do. But maybe I should because I am sure, that in the past, you have made several snide remarks alluding to a lawsuit by 3abn as well as many other topics concerning that ministry. And yet, I have seen nothing from you to back up the hints and innuendo's you have consistently made. You say I am influenced by my partisanship. Well at least I am influenced from things I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears, as opposed to you who believes what you read on the net and the gossip you discuss with others. That is a sad way to come to your "conclusions."

[mozart]

There may be more truth to what you are saying than you realize Laurence. Yes I am sad to say Pickle and Joy did lose site of what they say they started out to do and because of that, it would seem they did lose their connection with Christ. So you are right. Sometime christians are forced to go to the law with their differences. Where you are wrong is that there is not a "business" to lose. It is a ministry of saving souls. Souls are what can be lost here. The souls that might not be reached except through the far reaches of 3abn and the souls that are in jeopardy because of the allegations and out right lies people have told on the ministry and it's personal.
And BTW Laurence, aren't you one of those who said you didn't think 3abn would bring a suit because they couldn't "risk" the "truth" coming out?
MMMhh Guess they are not afraid of "truth" afterall.

well, there is no doubt they are afraid of the truth coming out otherwise they wouldn't have railroaded Linda into signing a "gag" order. the moneyman/men are playing the game of who can afford the best and most lawyers. so the moneyman/men have made it possible for DS to sue people who may or may not have the funds to defend themselves. who may or may not be guilty of any wrongdoing. that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make DS right or truthful. it just means they have more money to spend on lawsuits. a person defending themselves has to pay the lawyer they hire whether they are right or wrong, guilty or innocent. whenever this does go to court i hope the defendents countersue for damages and court and attorney fees. by doing this DS is really pushing others to get aggressive too, however and that may open a whole case of cans of worms he never expected. wonder if he ever thought that his doing this might get TS in more trouble? have they thought of that aspect? and also in doing this, the national media might take more notice. then what? we all lose. the ministry of saving souls is what DS has put in jeopardy himself, by not stepping aside during this time of trouble. if he would have gotten out of the limelight of "the ministry", the ministry would be doing a lot better, but because he has thought of himself ahead of the ministry he has hurt the ministry a great deal. this is where i find him most guilty. he's not doing what's best for 3ABN. he's doing what is best for him.
instead of reaching the world with the 3 angels messages, he has been reaching the world with propaganda for himself and slander for others. that is not what "the ministry for saving souls" is for is it? rhetorical question obviously. God will deal with him and others on that issue as well as others.
there will no doubt be many lawsuits. this is just the beginning, but if the state gets involved further, if they get aggressive, then DS could find himself in a lot hotter seat than he is now. i don't know what all he is guilty of; i suppose we may never know, but i do know this. in my court, he has played risk with "the ministry for saving souls" and used it for his own purposes lately. that, without question, makes him wrong on the #1 count to me.
as for pickle and joy, i don't know of any laws that prohibit you from posting public documents on a website. as for DS, etal. ; anybody that needs a boatload of attorneys to prove their case, sure appears guilty of something. they may win in court. i doubt it. but if they do, it still doesn't make them innocent.
history is full of martyrs who have questioned injustice.
BTW, do you think there is any possibility that 3ABN might consider using their power and worldwide network aimed at "mending broken people" for good and ask Linda if she would like their help in getting the word out to all the world to help find her missing son?

And I am quite sure you haven't missed the point. Yes Pickle pointed out who went to the law. You see, it is the party being slandered and lied about that "goes to the law" as you put it. The one doing the slandering does not go to the "law" because you see, they are breaking the law. So, the injured party is the one that "goes to the law", as a last resort of course, when the slanderers refuse to stop breaking the law.
As for my memory, I ask if you were one of the people because I wasn't completely sure without going back and reading all of your posts which I would just as soon, not do. But maybe I should because I am sure, that in the past, you have made several snide remarks alluding to a lawsuit by 3abn as well as many other topics concerning that ministry. And yet, I have seen nothing from you to back up the hints and innuendo's you have consistently made. You say I am influenced by my partisanship. Well at least I am influenced from things I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears, as opposed to you who believes what you read on the net and the gossip you discuss with others. That is a sad way to come to your "conclusions."

Eirene, you are talking out of your pointed hat. LaurenceD is one of the kindest people on here. the things he has said, are honey compared to your vinegar. i recommend that you do go back and read his post. you might learn something about character.


This post has been edited by mozart: May 2 2007, 01:18 AM

[ex3ABNemployee]

well, there is no doubt they are afraid of the truth coming out otherwise they wouldn't have railroaded Linda into signing a "gag" order.

...and now they want information withheld on these lawsuits. What do they have to hide? One must wonder...

I also wonder how this is going to affect the merger ploy. Is Amazing Facts going to sign on to these lawsuits?

I don't think Danny and crew thought this one through very well at all. I can see this getting very messy for them.

Time will tell.

[Johann]

2Samuel 6:6-7

The word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword . . .

[Pickle]

The GC has sued other adventists several times when they have been Adventist independant ministries but because of being independant the GC didn't want the Adventist name used.

Aren't you being a bit inaccurate here? Aren't you really talking about times when the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists asked entities that were not part of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to stop calling their congregation a Seventh-day Adventist church?

I guarantee you if Pickle and Joy had done this to the GC, they would be getting slapped with the same thing. As we have all saw on the net, they have been asked to stop, they were told there would be repercussions but no one listened.

Could you please cite examples where I have received requests to stop or notices of potential repercussions on the net from 3ABN or any of its employees, officers, or directors? Can you cite just one?

[Observer]

I need to correct a minor technical error in a post that Bob Pickle made:

If you wish to search the records of the U.S. District Court in Massachusets, you will find the case filed under:

07-40098

Once you locate the case, you will be told that it has been sealed by the court, not impounded.

You will need to search for it exactly as I have listed it, not as Bob listed it. As he is not an attorney, please overlook the above technical errors.

This post has been edited by Observer: May 2 2007, 04:42 AM

[Pickle]

I think impounded and sealed must be related terms.

Was wondering if FDS should be attached, even though the papers I received suggested that it should be.

[Observer]

I need to correct a minor technical error in a post that Bob Pickle made:

If you wish to search the records of the U.S. District Court in Massachusets, you will find the case filed under:

07-40098

Once you locate the case, you will be told that it has been sealed by the court, not impounded.

You will need to search for it exactly as I have listed it, not as Bob listed it. As he is not an attorney, please overlook the above technical errors.

It is with mixed feelings that I hear the news of this lawsuit:

1) I have stated a number of times that some of the issues could only be settled by the civil courts. So, I do have a sense of relief that some of these issues may now be settled. However, no single lawsuit can settle them all. If all are to be settled, there will need to be other lawsuits.

2) It is also with a sense of sadness. If these lawsuits develop as I think they may, all parties will be in for a rough ride. Litigation is typically not easy on any party.

3) As the filed documents are sealed, I do not know the alligations that have been filed. On the simplist level, the charges likely involve trademark and copyright isseus. This is an area that clearly belongs in the civil courts. The church is not properly able to settle this issue.

Well, we are just going to have to wait and see.

Gregory Matthews

[LaurenceD]

And I am quite sure you haven't missed the point. Yes Pickle pointed out who went to the law. You see, it is the party being slandered and lied about that "goes to the law" as you put it. The one doing the slandering does not go to the "law" because you see, they are breaking the law. So, the injured party is the one that "goes to the law", as a last resort of course, when the slanderers refuse to stop breaking the law.
As for my memory, I ask if you were one of the people because I wasn't completely sure without going back and reading all of your posts which I would just as soon, not do. But maybe I should because I am sure, that in the past, you have made several snide remarks alluding to a lawsuit by 3abn as well as many other topics concerning that ministry. And yet, I have seen nothing from you to back up the hints and innuendo's you have consistently made. You say I am influenced by my partisanship. Well at least I am influenced from things I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears, as opposed to you who believes what you read on the net and the gossip you discuss with others. That is a sad way to come to your "conclusions."

You're having a bad day, Eirene.

It was Christ who was taken before the Sanhedrin court, and before Pilate...not Christ taking others to court.

[Grith]

When troubles arise in the church we should not go for help to lawyers not of our faith. God does not desire us to open church difficulties before those who do not fear Him. He would not have us depend for help on those who do not obey His requirements. Those who trust in such counselors show that they have not faith in God. By their lack of faith the Lord is greatly dishonored, and their course works great injury to themselves. In appealing to unbelievers to settle difficulties in the church they are biting and devouring one another, to be "consumed one of another" (Gal. 5:15). {3SM 299.1}

These men cast aside the counsel God has given, and do the very things He has bidden them not to do. They show that they have chosen the world as their judge, and in heaven their names are registered as one with unbelievers. Christ is crucified afresh, and put to open shame. Let these men know that God does not hear their prayers. They insult His holy name, and He will leave them to the buffetings of Satan until they shall see their folly and seek the Lord by confession of their sin. {3SM 299.2}

Matters connected with the church are to be kept within its own borders. If a Christian is abused, he is to take it patiently; if defrauded, he is not to appeal to courts of justice. Rather let him suffer loss and wrong. {3SM 299.3}

God will deal with the unworthy church member who defrauds his brother or the cause of God; the Christian need not contend for his rights. God will deal with the one who violates these rights. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord." Rom. 12:19. An account is kept of all these matters, and for all the Lord declares that He will avenge. He will bring every work into judgment. {3SM 300.1} (emphasis is mine)

God has a way of dealing with things in ways we don't dream of. God is still in charge. Those who set out to destroy others will find that it turns back on themselves. The trap they set for others entraps them. God says vengence is His and He will repay. Now we watch and see what God reveals.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecclesiastes 12:14

[Shiny Penny]

Aren't you being a bit inaccurate here? Aren't you really talking about times when the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists asked entities that were not part of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to stop calling their congregation a Seventh-day Adventist church?
Could you please cite examples where I have received requests to stop or notices of potential repercussions on the net from 3ABN or any of its employees, officers, or directors? Can you cite just one?

Whether or not you've been requested to or not, I don't know. But Mr Joy has been and he's put the letter onto his website. Has the request stopped him? Apparently not. Can we suppose that if you had been asked you would have graciously ceased?

This post has been edited by Shiny Penny: May 2 2007, 09:13 AM

[Whtz Happenin]

...
Sometime christians are forced to go to the law with their differences.
...
And BTW Laurence, aren't you one of those who said you didn't think 3abn would bring a suit because they couldn't "risk" the "truth" coming out?
MMMhh Guess they are not afraid of "truth" afterall.

One who is not afraid of the "truth" coming out, does not need the help of the courts to bring the "truth" out. This is a sign of attempting to go on the offense to avoid the "truth" coming out. This lawsuit has FEAR written all over it. And I am not referring to the fear of the Lord.

...
So, the injured party is the one that "goes to the law", as a last resort of course, when the slanderers refuse to stop breaking the law.
...

"As a last resort"?????
Hmmm, what happened to being transparent? What happened to presenting evidence to prove the truth of the matter? Oh, and what happened to letting the Lord fight their battles?

It would seem that "as a last resort" would come after being very transparent and open about the many, many questions and doing everything possible to bring light onto the scene.

IMO, this unnecessary lawsuit is going to be about attempting to discredit Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy in order to completely avoid the extremely important issues at hand.

And sadly this is all because of PRIDE, as in too proud for the world to know the TRUTH.

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18

Webster defines Pride as:

1. Inordinate (exceeding reasonable limits or excessive) self-esteem, Conceit (excessive appreciation of one's own worth or virtue)
2. Proud or disdainful behavior or treatment. Disdain (a feeling of contempt for what is beneath one, Scorn), Contempt (lack of respect or reverence for something)
3. Ostentatious display. Ostentatious (marked by or fond of conspicuous or vainglorious and sometimes pretentious display.)

Is the pride worth what it will cost many? And it will cost many.

[LaurenceD]

Whether or not you've been requested to or not, I don't know. But Mr Joy has been and he's put the letter onto his website. Has the request stopped him? Apparently not. Can we suppose that if you had been asked you would have graciously ceased?

It make you look really bad to even request that someone graciously cease from probing and bringing new information to light.

When someone apparently has something to hide, such as 3abn (the evidence, etc), and the observers/donars are left to guess and fill in the blanks, there's a fundamental principle you may profit from by learning: there's no safety in silence or agreement. You open up for debate. You prepare yourself to give an answer for everything requested from you. To try and hush those who are left to sort out the truth for themselves sends the wrong signal. What's important is that we get the full picture. It may not be helpful to you or your business, but it's only fair to hear both sides.