10 Commandmants Weekend, (moved from Lawsuits Filed thread) Options

[princessdi]

"Speaking things as if they were until they are"..........See you Friday Eirene. Your friends should have told you that if you want to question or comment on an Admin action you do it PM to Calvin. That is what got your friends suspended, and now you. See ya' then!

Di, you are wrong on several counts and since you are so fair minded, you won't mind me pointing them out.
I was in no way attacking Fine Art. You say she was voicing her own feelings and I realize that. But, where did those feelings come from? She said a friend referred her to this site and she was sad at what she read. Certainly, I am sure she was. Me too. If I understand the rules correctly on bsda, I then have a right to point out that what she is reading may not at all, be the truth and nothing but the truth.
I also wanted to point out that hundreds of the post she is reading are from those of you that don't know anything personally, but are just repeating and expounding on what you have read and heard.
That would make most of the allegations posted here, unreliable, unverified, and unfactual. One should keep that in mind at all times while reading here.
If you all can point newbies to the trash of the evangelist and unauthorized version, why can't we point out the fallacy of believing what you read from so many people who don't know anyone involved and have never seen anything with their own eyes? If you think Lurkers cannot see the bias, you are fooling yourself.

You are greatly mistaken when you say "my side" led me to believe that you can "disrespect" people here. Absolutely not. It was your side that showed me that plenty of ridicule and disrespecting can be done here but, of course, only if it is done by "your side". Mr. J is just one poster that is a perfect example of what it means to disrespect those who disagree with him. His posts include, name calling, sexual innuendo, ridicule and degradation to the nth degree and yet, nothing was done until just recently when enough complained you just couldn't ignore it. Then was he suspended? No way. He was told to tone it down.
You Di are a disrespecter of persons if you think those just reading here can't see those obvious details. You are giving people no credit for their intelligence for seeing the truth of what goes on here. If you want to bann me for saying that, be my guest. It will just validate even more to those lurkers, exactly what I am saying.
And, no, I am not here each and everyday. Hardly. But I do post when I read something that is unfair and false. Or in the case of Fine Arts when they are mistakenly believing what people are posting about DS and 3abn with no proof to base it on.

Fine Arts, if you took my post as attacking you, I apologize. Just as the other side like to advise newbies in all kinds of detrimental ways, we like to point out some very valid and important facts also. We also like to point out some truths about those that have mislead thousands of people. That is what I was doing.

[Jnana15]

I have watched 3ABN for years, I loved the times on the porch with Linda. I loved the aging Fluffy and when i realized that danny was not a dog lover...he became suspect. "never trust anyone that does not love dogs"....my words of wisdom. I am such a dog lover.

Long before this all happened at 3ABN, I had to stop listening to Danny. When he interviewed guests that i wanted to hear, he was usually the one that talked, interupted and stole the show. I got to "mute" danny for fear i would have to hear "counteract the counterfeit" one more time.

Suddenly, Linda was gone, and with her departure went the warmth and softness of 3ABN. I still watched but only the the programs that were not by 3ABN inhouse people.

I wondered what had happened and a friend directed me to this sight and for months i have been reading here. What a sad story this is. I surely am glad that there is an all knowing God of justice that will make the last call on this matter. Until this time, I appreciate what you all are trying to do to prod the earthly powers of this church to rectify so many wrongs. May they ask for wisdom and strength to be stedfast in this work.

You go gurl!!

"Speaking things as if they were until they are"..........See you Friday Eirene. Your friends should have told you that if you want to question or comment on an Admin action you do it PM to Calvin. Taht is what got your friends suspended, and now you. See ya' then!

I'm having a laugh attack here

See! We tried to warn her Thank you Di.

[Johann]

Really? Is that how you and Joy came to be her "representatives."
And if that is your opinion of her then I take it, it could have been very possible that she was hoodwinked and manipulated by the doctor also?

Well, well, Eirene is also capable of spinning words into a different meaning to suit herself!!! Reading them out of context with a spin supplied seems to be a rare art. I still know nothing about the current court case Mr. Pickle is involved in, but this makes me wonder how many spin doctors are supplying the evidence used in a case like that?

Eirene supplies a strong suggestion in that direction.

May God have mercy!

[roxe]

I am not a viewer that hadn't noticed there were things unexplained going on. There were people i would not watch sinply because they didn't ring true.

I will also point out I am a free thinker and feel intelligent enough to know when things are not accoring to God's plan.

You can't fool all the people all the time. A forum is not to blame when folks are willing to think for themselves and weigh what they read. not everyone is a blind follower.

God Bless

welcome to BSDA, FineArt... i enjoy reading your posts... you do have a mind of your own.
so refreshing!

This post has been edited by roxe: May 7 2007, 11:14 PM

[Seraphim7]

"Speaking things as if they were until they are"..........See you Friday Eirene. Your friends should have told you that if you want to question or comment on an Admin action you do it PM to Calvin. That is what got your friends suspended, and now you. See ya' then!

[PeacefulBe]

let me take another moment and point out that i had been watching 3ABN for many years before the problems were revealed. I am not a viewer that hadn't noticed there were things unexplained going on. There were people i would not watch sinply because they didn't ring true.

I will also point out I am a free thinker and feel intelligent enough to know when things are not accoring to God's plan. Red flags were waving over 3ABN for quite some time before i started searching for answers. Seems to me if all this i am reading is just false truths and gossip, 3ABN would have laid all the truths out on the table for the public to see. Answer the questions asked of them and would show a christian spirit, but the opposit was what took place and is taking place.

You can't fool all the people all the time. A forum is not to blame when folks are willing to think for themselves and weigh what they read. not everyone is a blind follower.
God Bless

FineArt,

Welcome to BSDA! As a fellow member of the "long-in-the-tooth-club" I appreciate your clear common sense statements that cut through the smoke and mirrors that some detractors are attempting to hold up here.

I came here somewhat blind but seeking truth. I came here truly believing that I would find out that this was a rumor mill (sorry Calvin). It took me just a few weeks of reading and getting to know the folks here to realize that this was just not the case! It took me just a few weeks more to begin to feel a part of this great online family and to discover that BSDA holds far more of value than only the 3abn forum. I hope you will find the time to visit the other forums here and receive the social and spiritual blessings that they hold.

As to those who come here supporting the status quo at 3abn, the more they read posts such as yours and the more we pray for them, there is a chance that they, too, will begin to open their eyes.

[mozart]

And in my opinion, deep down inside Danny knows that.

i don't think it's deep down inside at all. i don't think he believes that for a second. it' just part of the game.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 7 2007, 09:42 PM

[Chas]

Instead we seem to be using sensationalism, emotionalism, moving lights and motivational speakers that are prepared to manipulate, by well chosen words, the minds of the listeners. It used to be, messages that were given by our pioneers were wrenched from the depths of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Humor was not added to get that laugh of entertainment. Drama was not introduced behind the sacred desk to glue your attention. Man's Rational has replaced a cry for God's wisdom.

Those that will be sealed will be "crying and sighing" because of the abominations being done in God's church.

The good news is: The church will appear to fall, but does not.
The good news is: If we hang in there doing what the God almighty has for us to do with all our hearts, we will not be asleep when He comes but will go into the wedding supper as a bride.

I'm afraid i just preached a sermon.....sorry
God bless

FineArt,

I really like the way you preach but I hope you realize that "The Church" that appears to fall, but does not, is not a building or an organization. It is people who love God and the rest of us unloveable folks.

Matthew 23:3,15 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

It appears to me that DS believes the same lie that most Adventist pastors are taught and seem to believe - "The end justifies the means". I'm not excusing DS, but don't expect the "Church" to come down too hard on him for sins that many of them are guilty of.

Don't get me wrong, I've been an Adventist all my life and I love the Adventist church and God's people. It is sad to see the way modern Israel has gone.

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

CWS

[steffan]

It is interesting that I have actually met some of those people recently, so I can only say that Eirene should be careful with her assumptions. One of these men told me frankly that although he preaches regularly on 3ABN it may be 18 months between his meetings with Danny Shelton personally. He told me also that his "boss" had requested of him to stay out of the complicated divorce affair. I understood that was why he did not take sides, but merely used 3ABN as a media to get out his message.

This is only told as a gentle warning to Eirene about her use of such names. I noticed that a name frequently used previously on such lists is now absent. It might be wiser not so use such lists than to have to drop some more, one by one.

Johann, don't be ridiculous,please. Saying names were left out from other lists is so childish and silly. Maybe that is who Eirene was thinking of at the time since the TCW just ended. Or maybe she just had a senior moment as we all do. To say she purposely left out someone because of some secret reason is your usual type of spin.
As far as you talking to someone recently....no credibility there....Do you realize how many times you have stated that you just "recently" talked to "a high" conference official, a well known pastor, someone in leadership.....etc etc? Yet, you never name any names. Without names, where it can be verified, your statements mean nothing. If you or the ones supposedly telling you all these opinions about 3abn don't have enough grit to face up to their own comments, they are null and void.

"Speaking things as if they were until they are"..........See you Friday Eirene. Your friends should have told you that if you want to question or comment on an Admin action you do it PM to Calvin. That is what got your friends suspended, and now you. See ya' then!

Hah, you did exactly what she said you would do. You suspended her. Hilarious when you look at what your side gets by with. Good going Eirene. You knew the pattern well.

[steffan]

Eirene:

What you say here is not true. It's just plain "off the wall."

1. Linda has always been kind to me when I talked to her at 3ABN -- at the church -- or away from 3ABN. Always. I noticed no changes whether the camera lights were on or not.

2. Fluffy was left in good hands -- the same home Fluffy had when Danny and Linda travelled together. In fact, on hot summer days, Fluffy was known to go over to those neighbors' home and stay inside because the house was air-conditioned - and Fluffy knew it.

3. When you rent a new home or apartment, the landlord will sometimes allow one dog, but not two. Linda took Sheltie with her, the younger dog, but Fluffy would have been the second dog. It was not certain at the time that Linda could have rented an apartment with two dogs, rather than one.

By the way, Fluffy and I spent some quality time together. My "first-hand" observation is that there was no mistreatment of Fluffy of any kind. In fact, it was joked that there were days when Fluffy received more mail than Danny did; Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but it was funny just the same.

And welcome to BSDA, FineArt.

Pete it seems you missed the point of Eirene's post. If I am reading her correctly she is saying that Linda insinuated on her first website post that she had fluffy when she did not and knew nothing about what was going on.
Then you say she could probably only have one dog when she rented....As far as I understand, she bought the mobile home she moved into and then definitely bought the house she lives in now.
As far as being nice to you so???? It would be hard for her to be arrogant and disrespectful to everybody in the world. Did you work directly for her or under her? I have talked to several who did and get the same conclusion from all. Arrogant, no respect for the workers, most all the projects she did were about and for her, they had to cater to her ,move furniture, lights, camera's etc on her whims when she basically knew nothing at all about the technical side of television. I could go on but you get the point.
When the truths start coming out in these lawsuits, most of you guys are going to have egg on your face. When you realize how badly you have been hoodwinked by people like pickle and joy, Linda's friends, and unhappy ex employees who couldn't wait to get some kind of revenge by jumping on this bandwagon, you all will feel, foolish, deceived and betrayed. For those of you that have believed all the garbage that you have read, your feelings will be well deserved.

[Aletheia]

Sister Eirene,
I was only able to watch the first two hours of TCW. I must tell you that I was so blessed by the message the Holy Spirit gave through Dwight Nelson I hope to be able to watch the program again and again. I pray fervently that each of those in leadership at 3abn and at Amazing Facts will listen to what the Lord had for each of us in that message about the two greatest commandments.

Please remind Danny and his Board that those souls outside the 3abn doors in the little town of Thompsonville are priceless as well.

PB,

EVERY single message given was like that, the holy spirit was present throughout the entire weekend, and in all the messages and songs of praise and worship.

Try and catch them all when they are rebroadcast on 3 ABN, you will be equally blessed by all I am sure.

Your judgmental reminders of precious souls Jesus died for, and prayers about 3ABN, Danny and the board, would be better applied to yourself first though is my thinking.

May we all have the ears to hear and the eyes to see what God is saying, and revealing to each of us.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: May 8 2007, 04:07 AM

[Aletheia]

As much as I appreciate T. Marshall Kelly, I was somewhat disappointed in his sermon on the fifth commandment. It seemed like he was talking to a lot of 'us' when he said that children should still honor their father or mother no matter what kind of parents they had been solely upon the fact that, were it not for the 'sperm donor and receiver' (my words) they would not be on this earth. That any abuse issues should just be 'given to God' and not be used to 'dishonor' the parents no matter what their ilk. (Again, my words.) Am I being too harsh here? Or did anyone else hear that as a veiled suggestion that we should just ignore Danny's behavior with Alyssa and Tommy's behavior as a sexually predatorial Pastor and 'leave it to God?' Oh, yeah, forgiveness was mentioned in there somewhere, too.

Just wonderin'

GrammieTana

Yes, your words. I myself think it is a mistake to take every single word of a speaker and think they are talking about you or your concerns on purpose. Perhaps the holy spirit is trying to speak to all about themselves. Certainly his words hit me that way,

I'm also failing to understand the disapointment here, Marshall Kelly is a true servant of God. Humble and radiating the love of Jesus, but he said nothing that I heard which would make any unaccountable for sins or crimes.

He said we may hate what they do, but we are commanded to honor our parents. That's God's commandment btw, it's not negotiable, and it contains no exceptions to the rule.

He also told the story of a girl who was abused and told him about her abusive Father, and asked "even him?" He said as a human I would like nothing better then to tell you.... But as a minister of the gospel, I have to say yes, even him"" we are to forgive all" It's not easy, but whatever God asks of us, he also provides the grace for us to do so.

Praise God for that.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: May 8 2007, 04:00 AM

[Observer]

Yes, your words. I myself think it is a mistake to take every single word of a speaker and think they are talking about you or your concerns on purpose. Perhaps the holy spirit is trying to speak to all about themselves. Certainly his words hit me that way,

I'm also failing to understand the disapointment here, Marshall Kelly is a true servant of God. Humble and radiating the love of Jesus, but he said nothing that I heard which would make any unaccountable for sins or crimes.

He said we may hate what they do, but we are commanded to honor our parents. That's God's commandment btw, it's not negotiable, and it contains no exceptions to the rule.

He also told the story of a girl who was abused and told him about her abusive Father, and asked "even him?" He said as a human I would like nothing better then to tell you.... But as a minister of the gospel, I have to say yes, even him"" we are to forgive all" It's not easy, but whatever God asks of us, he also provides the grace for us to do so.

Praise God for that.

Forgiveness does not release one from consequences.

We may forgive the person who steals church offerings. But, that does not require that we drop criminal charges. It does not require that we allow that person to continue to be responsible for church offerings.

[Shepherdswife]

Your friend gave you wrong advice to come here. Most of these people are in the same position as you. They have never met any of the people involved, they have never seen any of these allegations with their own eyes. Now they criticize Doug for merging when he does have years of experience working with, dealing with, and truly "knowing" the people involved.

Those here that stick with believing the gossip and lies, want to believe them.

Eirene, I have been one of those lurkers that you mentioned in another post--I have only been on here a couple weeks, but have read most of what this site and save3abn has up. First off, I have only visited 3 abn once, years ago, so do not know anyone personally. I saw Danny and Melody and his previous wife once at a Southern IL campmeeting a lot of years ago, that is it. I worked for Mark and Teenie Finley for nearly 5 years--lived with them part of the time. Met Walter Thompson. I know Pickle's mother and I believe met him once. My mom wrote a book and was interviewed at 3ABN about it around '01 or '02. (Come to think of it, after that experience, which she didn't talk about very much, she noticably cooled towards 3ABN and has not supported them financially for years--I am not sure why, I never asked her) I have not been a 3ABN viewer--not my cup of tea. But I am 4th generation SDA and have been on about every branch of the Adventist tree there is to be on. Regular member, self-supporting institution, evangelistic team, Adventist Health System, supporting ministry, pastoral, conference staff. But I didn't even know what was going on here until my mom asked me what I thought of what was happening with 3ABN. I quickly got over that condition, thanks to these two sites!

Yes, there are a lot of posts of conjecture, surmising, wondering, and accusing--back and forth by both sides. But I know the fickleness of public opinion. When we left our last district, one church believed my husband was the best thing since sliced bread. The other church thought he should leave the ministry. So I don't make judgments based on individual opinion or one person telling their experience. I don't put much stock in "proof-texting" to give guidance either, whether Bible or Spirit of Prophecy. "Press together" as reason to join AF and 3ABN can be balanced with "why did the Battle Creek fires happen?" Neither does "Look at all the work we are accomplishing for God". I believe God will use donkeys and ravens if need be, but the donkey speaking nor the beautiful Messianic prophecy that came from Balaams (unwilling) mouth did not prove that Gods stamp of approval was forever on Balaam. Also (might as well get it all off my chest at once!) it really steams me when an organization insulates itself from any chance of learning from criticism or life circumstances by saying that if things are going well, it is proof of God's favor. If they are attacked, it is proof that they are doing something right. If they are criticized, it means they are making Satan angry. If they gain a network, God is behind them, if they lose a network, God it telling them to press forward and not give up--oh, and by the way, we need your money to accomplish all this for God.

OK, deep breath, calm...enough with the "credentials" (or lack of them, since I don't actually "know" any of the interested parties)

So, the testimony of a lurker: What has impressed me is the weight of evidence. Any leader is open to untrue accusations, but the repeated accustions of sexual misconduct through the years are a pretty good indication that there is something to it, especially when you factor in the fact that Tommy has admitted at least some type of wrongdoing in one instance. That (along with what I know of pedophiles low rate of "recovery") gives me reasonable doubt of his innocence. And if Tommy did even some of it, and if Danny knew--which I think there is evidence that he probably did--and still downplayed it and put him in leadership, I have a hard time trusting him (Danny), which makes me question his perspective and judgment and truthfulness in other instances.

Though the lack of "proof" has been thrown around a lot here, if you watch CSI, you know that there rarely is "this happened here and how" left at a crime scene. "Clues" are what it is all about, and there are a lot of "clues" here and at save3ABN.com for the lurkers. Documents verifying or disproving someone's history of honesty. Testimonies of eyewitnesses, both sides. Timelines that add or don't add up. Emails that show a persons attitude when they don't know others will be reading it. Court actions where books were examined and judgments of record were made. It is like a balance sheet that all the lurkers will read with their own personal biases firmly in place--biases that come from their own background and life experience and agendas. And I have been in ministry long enough to know that there is always more than one side, and sometimes when you hear them both, you wonder if they are even talking about the same event. That doesn't mean that one is perfect and one is diabolical. Or that they are both lying. Often they are both convinced that their story is the true one, but they are looking at it through their own tinted glasses, seeing only what they want to see or are led to see by their own bias or dysfunction.

Because of this, I have as hard time believing in Linda's spotless purity or total victimhood in all this as I have believing that she is trying to orchestrate 3ABN's downfall, as some seem to claim. And I can give Danny the benefit of the doubt as to some of his actions...time will tell whether the things that have happened were unintentional and the various parties can be adults and take responsibility, make restitution, and change things. Proof of character comes after one has been held accountable. . .

It is said that a family is as sick as its secrets. And when you have a family with as many secrets as 3ABN is alleged to have, and as the Sheltons are alleged to have, the members of the family who "do not know" are often contributing to the toxic mix by keeping their eyes closed because they do not want to believe or know, or are themselves unhealthy enough emotionally that things going on all around them do not alert them to the red flags waving in their face. Maybe that is part of what Linda is facing up to these last few years since the divorce, I don't know. I have no contact with her or anyone around her. But I do know that when you are trying to survive, and especially when you have the attitude of "We are doing the Lord's work, so we don't have time for..." you can excuse things that are appalling to you when you look back later.

So, please give us lurkers credit for having some brains to sort out and make our own judgments. Truth can stand on its own, and I say the sooner the better. God can save 3ABN if it still has a work to do, even if garbage is revealed and dealt with, whoever it comes from. And if the organization has been hiding abuse issues--whether abuse of power, sexual or emotional abuse--knowingly or unknowingly, God will not allow it to go on unhindered forever. Better to cleanse it voluntarily than have it swept away...

shepherdswife--who probably can not be considered just a lurker anymore

[from-the-pew]

Thank you, Shepherd's Wife. You have taken some thoughts I have, arranged them sensibly, and added a lot of good stuff....

I've had this phrase running through my head lately..... "His side, her side, and the truth"