Reason For Divorce, Is lusting grounds for divorce? Options

[ex3ABNemployee]

http://tinyurl.com/tsd7n is the link. Look at the bottom of the page. It has read this way for a week or two.

Hmmmm.....very interesting.

Appletree, care to explain the discrepancy?

No, wait. I got it. The courthouse staff are in cahoots with Linda to make Danny look bad. Yeah, I'll bet that's it.

[Dona]

I wonder what the judge will think about statements made by 3ABN in the Pickle/Joy suit that say 3ABN has no affiliation with any denomination and its programming is non denominational, considering the FACT that 3ABN certainly does have affiliations with the SDA denomination and most of its programming is VERY denominational. People who purport to represent inside knowledge of 3ABN on this site have said that 3ABN didn't say those things, their lawyers did.

I believe this has already been explained and very well.

Dona

[Johann]

I believe this has already been explained and very well.

Dona

The explanations may seem well done to you, Dona, but to others these explanations create more problems than solutions, and these problems have not been solved yet.

[Dona]

The explanations may seem well done to you, Dona, but to others these explanations create more problems than solutions, and these problems have not been solved yet.

The only thing I can suggest is that you seek out a lawyer who understands how the legal system works and ask them.

Dona

[beartrap]

I believe this has already been explained and very well.

Dona

No it has not been well explained. The explanations were an act of beating around the bush. What has been explained is that 3ABN didn't tell the lie, their lawyers did, and they lied to the court to save the church from being associated in a way that could drag them into the suit. But the fact remains that it was a lie. Do you deny that? Either 3ABN is affiliated with the church or they are not. Either their programming is SDA, or it is not. Which is it?

This post has been edited by beartrap: Aug 29 2007, 08:51 AM

[Dona]

No it has not been well explained. The explanations were an act of beating around the bush. What has been explained is that 3ABN didn't tell the lie, their lawyers did, and they lied to the court to save the church from being associated in a way that could drag them into the suit. But the fact remains that it was a lie. Do you deny that? Either 3ABN is affiliated with the church or they are not. Either their programming is SDA, or it is not. Which is it?

I already gave the best advice I can give. Maybe you might believe a lawyer where you find it difficult to believe what anyone else says.

Dona

[Aletheia]

I have a question. Actually I've had it for quite awhile.

Re spiritual adultery.

Surely we all believe the law is spiritual, as Paul wrote?

And that he would not have known what lust was, except that the law said "thou shalt not covet"?

Jesus said:
Mat 5:27 -28Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. {/b]

So we can see how God's commandments are intertwined and rest on one another.

You don't commit adultery without first coveting your neighbours spouse...

Over and over in the bible we see God's people called his bride, and the Lord as the husband.
and we beliieve false worship or putting another before God, is idolotry, or spiritual adultery in the context of the marriage relationship described here.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: Jer 31;31-35

I 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

And so the Apostle Paul wrote:
2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Eph 5:22-32
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."



If a man puts another woman before his wife or chooses her over his wife or vice versa, is it the same as being in a marrige relationship with the lord and then putting another before him? If a spouse breaks their marriage covenant. Does the Lord look at it as adultery just as he does when his bride breaks covenant with him?

I keep seeing some posters here repeatedly claiming there is no such thing as "spiritual adultery" in regards to marriage, and that the bible doesn't say a man may put away his wife for such. That there are no such words in the bible..

Yet some of those same people claim spiritual adultery is idolotry, and can see that this is the Lord's grievance with his bride. And I agree with that principle.


But where did that come from? where is the term "spiritual adultery" ever used in that context in the bible??

Is there even one verse or reference? Nope.

How can you use the term "spiritual adultery" in the context of the marriage between Christ and his bride the Church, and discount it in a marriage between a man and his wife?

I just don't understand that.

whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. {/b]


Jesus said "It's adultery." plain and simple. That's biblical grounds for divorce. Yet he said it is adultery "in the heart".

Still others here in these discussions have said, "well i agree with that concept, but we couldn't prove that someone committed adultery in their heart, for how would we know?"

Well one answer which comes to mind immediatly is this one, for Jesus also said:

Luk 6:44-46
For every tree is known by his own fruit. ...A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?



Mat 15:16 -19 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?... those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies

~ Cindy

edited font

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Aug 29 2007, 10:47 AM

[Johann]

I have a question. Actually I've had it for quite awhile.

Re spiritual adultery.

Surely we all believe the law is spiritual, as Paul wrote?

And that he would not have known what lust was, except that the law said "thou shalt not covet"?

Jesus said:
Mat 5:27 -28Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her [b]hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. {/b]

So we can see how God's commandments are intertwined and rest on one another.

You don't commit adultery without first coveting your neighbours spouse...

Over and over in the bible we see God's people called his bride, and the Lord as the husband.
and we beliieve false worship or putting another before God, is idolotry, or spiritual adultery in the context of the marriage relationship described here.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: Jer 31;31-35

I 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

And so the Apostle Paul wrote:
2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Eph 5:22-32
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."
If a man puts another woman before his wife or chooses her over his wife or vice versa, is it the same as being in a marrige relationship with the lord and then putting another before him? If a spouse breaks their marriage covenant. Does the Lord look at it as adultery just as he does when his bride breaks covenant with him?

I keep seeing posters here claiming there is no such thing as "spiritual adultery" in regards to marriage, and the bible doesn't say a man may put away his wife for such. That there are no such words in the bible..

Yet these same people claim spiritual adultery is idolotry, and can see that this is the Lord's grievance with his bride. And I agree with that principle.
But where did that come from? where is the term "spiritual adultery" ever used in that context in the bible??

Is there even one verse or reference? Nope.

How can you use the term "spiritual adultery" in the context of the marriage between Christ and his bride the Church, and discount it in a marriage between a man and his wife?

I just don't understand that.

whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her [b]hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. {/b]

Jesus said It's adultery. That's biblical grounds for divorce. Yet he said it is adultery "in the heart".

Many here in these discussions have also said, well i agree with that concept, but we couldn't prove that someone committed adultery in their heart, for how would we know?

Well one answer which comes to mind immediatly is this one, for Jesus also said:

Luk 6:44-46
For every tree is known by his own fruit. ...A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mat 15:16 -19 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?... those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies

~ Cindy

What are you implying here, Cindy? Think it through. If you make this application it gives anyone a "biblical" reason to divorce the spouse, claiming that the spouse must have broken this commandment at some time by permitting lust in the heart. How can you prove it? How can you deny it?

How will you apply your last quotations? I know that Danny Shelton hired private investigators to follow me, Linda, and Arild. I know that Danny has made false claims about what I have done. If you count this as fruit, whose fruit is that?

Your implication means that Danny is bearing evil fruit, and is guilty, but this is not what you mean to imply, is it? So, I'd be careful with this application if I was you.

[PeacefulBe]

If a man puts another woman before his wife or chooses her over his wife or vice versa, is it the same as being in a marrige relationship with the lord and then putting another before him? If a spouse breaks their marriage covenant. Does the Lord look at it as adultery just as he does when his bride breaks covenant with him?


~ Cindy

edited font

I'm certainly thankful that our Lord doesn't rush to Guam to divorce us when we put another before Him. He forgives time and time again until there is just no more time to forgive.

Was He happy that His people were so hasty as to divorce their spouses for unfaithfulness? What was it He told that disciple about how many times we are to forgive? If your illustration was to compare the marriage between a man and a woman to the marriage between Christ and His church I think your point was made but your reason for your point was absolutely not. Following your reasoning, we sinners have deserved to be biblically divorced from our Savior, our Bridegroom long ere this. Praise God that Jesus does not think this way!

PB

[daylily]

So Cindy, it seems to me that you are saying that the lusting in the heart is what Danny meant by the term "spiritual adultry"? Is that what you meant?

It also seems that you are saying that the lusting in the heart is Biblical grounds for divorce. Is that what you meant?

Would it also be true that hating your brother in your heart equals murder? Jesus said so. Does that mean that a person can be arrested and tried for murder for the reason of hating a person? Can a person be condemed to death for hating only?

How does one determine what is in another person's heart? Specifically, how did Danny determine what was in Linda's heart? Was Danny lusting in his heart when he gave backrubs to a young lady? How could one find this out?

Did the things that came out of Danny's mouth when he spoke to Barb Kerr about LInda come from his heart?

[Aletheia]

Re: the replies to my post.

I was implying nothing, I said exactly what I meant.

I was simply trying to discuss the principles and scriptures involved. I guess that was too much to hope for.

If we as Christians aren't able to discuss biblical teaching and principles without trying to judge another's motive or intent, or without making it all personal by bringing in and applying it to other people, or feeling defensive about ourselves or others, or only seeing a condemnation of another in what we're talking about , etc. then I fear for us.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Aug 29 2007, 01:25 PM

[Johann]

Re: the replies to my post.

I was implying nothing, I said exactly what I meant.

I was simply trying to discuss the principles and scriptures involved. I guess that was too much to hope for.

If we as Christians aren't able to discuss biblical teaching and principles without trying to judge another's motive or intent, or without making it all personal by bringing in and applying it to other people, or feeling defensive about ourselves or others, or only seeing a condemnation of another in what we're talking about , etc. then I fear for us.

So we can not make any personal applications? Only a theory that has nothing to do what happened at 3ABN back in 2004, and the personal accusations and court case that is taking place? Are we thus elevated to a place aboe this earth?

[Fran]

It seems to me that perhaps the GC is quietly withdrawing from speaking for 3ABN. Someone has refused the merger. If you watch Safe TV on Sabbaths you will find a whole row of well known Adventist ministers who are coming on Safe TV to laud the wonderful work of Safe TV and encouraging help for Safe TV. Pastors Nelson and Carter and others. Maybe by his silent withdrawal from the merger DB has also spoken his opinion. A sudden open criticism by GC about Danny S. could spell disaster for our church. It is going to take time, but the Lord is leading---we can't hurry the Lord.

i believe your statement about my church.

A sudden open criticism by GC about Danny S. could spell disaster for our church. It is going to take time, but the Lord is leading---we can't hurry the Lord.

The church is breaking their back to keep silent! All the while, my fellow members are being led down the lily white pathway to Danny Shelton. Millions are thinking the church condones all the alleged activity. Therefore, they decide to "Keep Quiet" to protect the "Church!" Who is the church? Millions, just like us! And our fearless leaders decide NOT to be the Good Samaritan to help and protect the innocent. In the meantime, Danny Shelton continues to solicit from the ignorant pews that believe that their church would save them if something were wrong. WROMG!

I am angry. I am angry at MY church.

Let's not be hasty and blame this mess on the Lord! He gave Danny Shelton a power of choice. Because the church decides to take NO ACTION in this situation does NOT mean that NO ACTION is the Lord's will! The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists have long over used their managerial too of taking "NO ACTION". In the mean time, we perish for lack of leadership!

[PeacefulBe]

Re: the replies to my post.

I was implying nothing, I said exactly what I meant.

I was simply trying to discuss the principles and scriptures involved. I guess that was too much to hope for.

If we as Christians aren't able to discuss biblical teaching and principles without trying to judge another's motive or intent, or without making it all personal by bringing in and applying it to other people, or feeling defensive about ourselves or others, or only seeing a condemnation of another in what we're talking about , etc. then I fear for us.

Aletheia,

As this thread within the 3abn Forum is called "Reason For Divorce" and it has been primarily dealing with the validity of the divorce of Danny Shelton and Linda Shelton, it was natural that I assumed your post about adultery was being directed to the subject at hand. If you would prefer to wax pastoral without it being tied in to the 3abn saga, perhaps the Theology forum or Praise and Devotion forums would be the best arena.

Please keep in mind, Aletheia, that this is a forum and we discuss things. I'm sorry for your sorrow and disappointment that some may have judged your motives or intent. I hope you can understand how such a thing might happen when posting in this particular forum. We all are "victims" of such.

PB

[Artiste]

The church is breaking their back to keep silent! All the while, my fellow members are being led down the lily white pathway to Danny Shelton. Millions are thinking the church condones all the alleged activity. Therefore, they decide to "Keep Quiet" to protect the "Church!" Who is the church? Millions, just like us! And our fearless leaders decide NOT to be the Good Samaritan to help and protect the innocent. In the meantime, Danny Shelton continues to solicit from the ignorant pews that believe that their church would save them if something were wrong. WROMG!

I am angry. I am angry at MY church.

Let's not be hasty and blame this mess on the Lord! He gave Danny Shelton a power of choice. Because the church decides to take NO ACTION in this situation does NOT mean that NO ACTION is the Lord's will! The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists have long over used their managerial too of taking "NO ACTION". In the mean time, we perish for lack of leadership!

Amen, Fran!


*********************************************************