General Conference Suspends 3abn's Status, Supportive Ministry Status suspended by GC announcement Options

[Snoopy]

Wow! It almost sounds like this guy works there.

I'll bet he's gonna get a nastygram from Danny.

...........or maybe he will be the next one to be served with a dannygram....

[mikell]

Re: The Kevin Paulson communication

What is the "New Theology"?

Artiste, simply put, "New Theology" is anti TEN COMMANDMENTS. Why? It comes done to "sin and and live on forever theology." It is just about as bad as, once saved always saved. Not only is the sinner is justified in their past, but it comes down to the sinner being justified in the future, regardless living in sin or breaking God's Law for the rest of a "saved" life, he or she is going to heaven! I think somewhere in the Bible says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die?" But, maybe I could be mistaken.

What, are we to believe that DS could think to believe in the "New Theology?" He would not do that! How can anyone would think DS might believe in something that would allow him to steal, covet, commit adultery, lie, and most of all, be a god for many to worship; and still go to heaven?! I just cannot imagine that any of us in this group here would even think that DS would believe that!

This post has been edited by mikell: Jun 9 2007, 01:02 AM

[roxe]

mikell,

where is that tongue-in-cheek smiley when we need it?



This post has been edited by roxe: Jun 9 2007, 12:30 AM

[lowender]

Hey gang.. Just ignore Kevin Paulsen. He is a troublemaker. When I was a student at Loma Linda he would hang around campus just stirring up trouble. More than once he had to be asked to exit forums, buildings, etc because of his disruptiveness. He may have pastoral training, but he doesnt have a congregation & I don't believe he has ever had one. He is nowhere near the GC leadership. I am certain they wouldnt let him get close. He used to write for some independent ministry.

Lowender

[watchbird]

Who is this Kevin Paulsen guy?

Kevin Paulson was for years one of the most prolific of the writers in the publication called "Our Firm Foundation, put out by Hope International.... (Hope International is the ministry headed by Ron Spears, which was formerly located in Oregon... now moved to North Eastern Illinois. It is also the ministry which was formally censured by the GC some years ago.) Currently I only see him featured on the Larry Kirkpatrick website ... the "greatcontroversy.org" that Bearus cited.

He is so far to the "right" of Adventism that even conservative Adventism comes under his label of "teaching 'New Theology'".... which he defines as anything remotely resembling Justification by Faith.

Ok thanks, his bio says he serves on the pastoral staff of the Greater New York Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. So we have an Adventist pastor speaking out.

I have no idea what being "on the pastoral staff of the Greater New York Conference" means... for I do not find anything called "pastoral staff" on their website, nor do I find Kevin Paulson listed as a credentialed worker in any of the listings in the Adventist Yearbook.

[Correction to the above, which I shall leave in to avoid confusion.
I discovered that I had not checked far enough on the Greater New York Conference site. I still do not know why he did not show up in the yearbook search, butKevin Paulson IS listed on the Conference site as the pastor of both the Peekskill and the Wingdale, NY, SDA church. My apologies for the misinformation.]

Re: The Kevin Paulson communication

What is the "New Theology"?

"New Theology" is a term used by "right wing" (and beyond) Adventists to denote anything that they do not like... especially if it has anything to do with Justification by Faith.

Wow! It almost sounds like this guy works there.

I'll bet he's gonna get a nastygram from Danny.

No, Duane, it merely means that there are a number of "independent ministries"... particularly in the sector of Adventism that Kevin Paulson inhabits, which exhibit the same characteristics as does 3abn ... and which Kevin describes so aptly. But notice the comparison he makes.... where HOPETV (which is owned and directed by mainline Adventism) is even worse than 3abn in his eyes.

Artiste, simply put, "New Theology" is anti TEN COMMANDMENTS. Why? It comes done to "sin and and live on forever theology." It is just about as bad as, once saved always saved. Not only is the sinner is justified in their past, but it comes down to the sinner being justified in the future, regardless living in sin or breaking God's Law for the rest of a "saved" life, he or she is going to heaven! I think somewhere in the Bible says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die?" But, maybe I could be mistaken.

What, are we to believe that DS could think to believe in the "New Theology?" He would not do that! How can anyone would think DS might believe in something that would allow him to steal, covet, commit adultery, lie, and most of all, be a god for many to worship; and still go to heaven?! I just cannot imagine that any of us in this group here would even think that DS would believe that!

Your parody of what is said against "New Theology" by those of Kevin Paulson's views rings very true.... until you get to your last two sentences in the first paragraph. There you reveal your own bias as a "luke warm Laodicean" who doesn't "stand firm for their convictions". For a true "Historic Adventist" would NEVER use such vague terms as "I think somewhere in" when refering to scripture. That sentence would begin with a positive, ringing, affirmation... "THE BIBLE SAYS... "
And NO Historic would EVER express any doubt in the Bible's (or his own God given) message by using such a waffly sentence as "maybe I could be mistaken." ("Give the trumpet a certain sound, brother!")

As for your comment on DS and "New Theology"..... mmmm.... no.... I'd better not comment on that....

..... ............

Hey gang.. Just ignore Kevin Paulsen. He is a troublemaker. When I was a student at Loma Linda he would hang around campus just stirring up trouble. More than once he had to be asked to exit forums, buildings, etc because of his disruptiveness. He may have pastoral training, but he doesnt have a congregation & I don't believe he has ever had one. He is nowhere near the GC leadership. I am certain they wouldnt let him get close. He used to write for some independent ministry.

Lowender

Excellent summary statement, lowender.....

This post has been edited by watchbird: Jun 9 2007, 08:22 PM

[Clay]

thanks for clearing that up WB and lowender.... Kevin Paulson is not a credible source... and he has issues..... that's what it looks like to me....

[PeacefulBe]

Wow! It almost sounds like this guy works there.

I'll bet he's gonna get a nastygram from Danny.

At least!

[mikell]

Your parody of what is said against "New Theology" by those of Kevin Paulson's views rings very true.... until you get to your last two sentences in the first paragraph. There you reveal your own bias as a "luke warm Laodicean" who doesn't "stand firm for their convictions". For a true "Historic Adventist" would NEVER use such vague terms as "I think somewhere in" when refering to scripture. That sentence would begin with a positive, ringing, affirmation... "THE BIBLE SAYS... "
And NO Historic would EVER express any doubt in the Bible's (or his own God given) message by using such a waffly sentence as "maybe I could be mistaken." ("Give the trumpet a certain sound, brother!")

As for your comment on DS and "New Theology"..... mmmm.... no.... I'd better not comment on that....

..... ............

Watchbird, Of course I am positive it is in the Bible in Ezekiel 18:4 says, "THE SOUL THAT SINNITH, IT SHALL DIE"! When I wrote, "I think somewhere in the Bible...," I was being little "facetious." But, maybe the word, "facetious" does not exist, I think somewhere it is in the Dictionary, but who knows? Ever heard of the words, "lighten-up?"

This post has been edited by mikell: Jun 9 2007, 07:54 AM

[watchbird]

Watchbird, Of course I am positive it is in the Bible in Ezekiel 18:4 says, "THE SOUL THAT SINNITH, IT SHALL DIE"! When I wrote, "I think somewhere in the Bible...," I was being little "facetious." But, maybe the word, "facetious" does not exist, I think somewhere it is in the Dictionary, but who knows? Ever heard of the words, "lighten-up?"

Yes... as a matter of fact I have... and btw... both "facetious" and "lighten up" can be found at dictionary.com in a matter of seconds...

Actually, I was giving you "credit" for "satire".... which is essentially facetiousness put to a serious use....

What you surely by now must understand is that there are those who are seriously challenged by such literary devices... (though we may not have any such who are reading here at the moment).... so it seemed well to this ol' literary devices admirer to point out your small digressions from "staying in character" when posing as one who believed as you were describing. Of course it is entirely possible that I... being utterly charmed by these devices... was misreading you... and you were not, in fact, describing something opposite to what you really believe... but only "being a little facetious".... if that is the case then I humbly apologize.... .... (will sackcloth be sufficient?... or do you wish me to sprinkle ashes as well... ............. )

(Imagine that... me... the Bird that flies hither and yon... and he wants me to "lighten up".....)

And now... back to our regular programing....


.................................

btw.... ..... I can see you are going to fit into this crowd exceptionally well..... but you will need to learn to take as well as give....

This post has been edited by watchbird: Jun 9 2007, 09:25 AM

[mikell]

What you surely by now must understand is that there are those who are seriously challenged by such literary devices...

(Imagine that... me... the Bird that flies hither and yon... and he wants me to "lighten up".....)

And now... back to our regular programing....
.................................

btw.... ..... I can see you are going to fit into this crowd exceptionally well..... but you will need to learn to take as well as give....

Point well taken! You are right, there are those who are seriously challenged by such things. Also, advise on to "learn to take a well as give" is well taken, thanks,

A note about, "the Bird that flies," ha, not if you are an, Osteridge!

[steffan]

I JUST RECEIVED THIS IN EMAIL.
A conference President has told me that this statement is based

upon a release directly from the General Conference President of

Seventh-day Adventists and the NAD has redistributed the same to

all administrators and pastoral staff.



Leadership is on the move to press for corrections at 3ABN.
Praise be to God that we have leadership on this very

important issue.



Gailon Arthur Joy

AUReporter

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
SUBJECT: K. PAULSON STATEMENT ON GC OFFICIAL STANCE:

Message: 15

Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 00:57:30 +0000

From: "Kevin Paulson"

God bless!

Kevin


(EDITED AS IT PERTAINED TO 10 COMMANDMENTS THREAD - MOVED IT OVER TO THAT THREAD FOR ANY DISCUSSION DESIRED)

SSOM,
The fact that you posted this "commentary" from KP exposes, once again, that you show a "lack of judgement" with your "sources." Your first mistake was taking it from Joy who also represents it as coming from a "credible" source. After you posted it, as usual, many here took it as something important which it is not. Thank Goodness, I believe it was Lowender that had enough sense to recognize or "look into" the author of this "in the know" email. Lowender is totally correct, that KP knows nothing about what Church leadership is doing or thinking as they would not allow him that close.
How many "misrepresentations" by Joy, you and others will it take for people to see how the subject of 3abn has been compiled of rumors, speculation, "faulty" sources and opinion? Gailon has been proven wrong on what he has "reported" over and over again and yet this site still gives his site "PR" when newbies come. This only proves people believe what they want to believe no matter how unreliable the source, or how little can be proven as fact.

[sonshineonme]

SSOM,
The fact that you posted this "commentary" from KP exposes, once again, that you show a "lack of judgement" with your "sources." Your first mistake was taking it from Joy who also represents it as coming from a "credible" source. After you posted it, as usual, many here took it as something important which it is not. Thank Goodness, I believe it was Lowender that had enough sense to recognize or "look into" the author of this "in the know" email. Lowender is totally correct, that KP knows nothing about what Church leadership is doing or thinking as they would not allow him that close.
How many "misrepresentations" by Joy, you and others will it take for people to see how the subject of 3abn has been compiled of rumors, speculation, "faulty" sources and opinion? Gailon has been proven wrong on what he has "reported" over and over again and yet this site still gives his site "PR" when newbies come. This only proves people believe what they want to believe no matter how unreliable the source, or how little can be proven as fact.

Steffan,

You again are trying to capitalize on anything you can. What's new.

I lack judgment because I chose to post an email that came to me in it's entirety? Kevin is at least sincere and takes things seriously enough to examine things. This does not mean he is wrong or right, it means he went for information and reported what he found. He has been watching like many SDA's (the ones you agree with and the ones you don't). He has many readers too, and everyone is affected by 3abn, so he has the right to express it. I think you should be looking at the fact that it is infultrating DS's main base. They see not only the theology problem, but many of the problems at 3abn. DS does not like that, I know. Those are the last of the mohiccans to him. He needs them.

You tear Kevin down based on something else he believes that you do not agree with and try to gain support by your attempt in using others comments (such as lowender) that you think will join in and say "he is wrong here and here, so he must be TOTALLY WRONG EVERYWHERE". In fact, many know he is on the money on many points. Did you see people tearing those points down?

I posted this email in it's entirety. That is how it came to me, and I will not cut and paste as some like to do. I would not want to be accused of posting only the bits and pieces I agree with. Gailon give people the credit of having common sense to read this email and "get it".

You would like to tie this all together nice and tight - wouldn't you? Gailon=Keven=any one else that sees what's going on and has something to say about it?? Won't fly. Sorry. Once again, shows how you like to take advantage of anything to keep things quiet. Tear everyone down that has enough common sense to see the truth of 3agbn and it's corruption. Are you ready to attack the GC too?

[watchbird]

Point well taken! You are right, there are those who are seriously challenged by such things. Also, advise on to "learn to take a well as give" is well taken, thanks,

A note about, "the Bird that flies," ha, not if you are an, Osteridge!

....... ......

[Snoopy]

Steffan,

You again are trying to capitalize on anything you can. What's new.

I lack judgment because I chose to post an email that came to me in it's entirety? Kevin is at least sincere and takes things seriously enough to examine things. This does not mean he is wrong or right, it means he went for information and reported what he found. He has been watching like many SDA's (the ones you agree with and the ones you don't). He has many readers too, and everyone is affected by 3abn, so he has the right to express it. I think you should be looking at the fact that it is infultrating DS's main base. They see not only the theology problem, but many of the problems at 3abn. DS does not like that, I know. Those are the last of the mohiccans to him. He needs them.

You tear Kevin down based on something else he believes that you do not agree with and try to gain support by your attempt in using others comments (such as lowender) that you think will join in and say "he is wrong here and here, so he must be TOTALLY WRONG EVERYWHERE". In fact, many know he is on the money on many points. Did you see people tearing those points down?

I posted this email in it's entirety. That is how it came to me, and I will not cut and paste as some like to do. I would not want to be accused of posting only the bits and pieces I agree with. Gailon give people the credit of having common sense to read this email and "get it".

You would like to tie this all together nice and tight - wouldn't you? Gailon=Keven=any one else that sees what's going on and has something to say about it?? Won't fly. Sorry. Once again, shows how you like to take advantage of anything to keep things quiet. Tear everyone down that has enough common sense to see the truth of 3agbn and it's corruption. Are you ready to attack the GC too?

Actually, SSoM, I appreciate you posting the information from Kevin Paulsen. Having not been closely associated with the SDA church for quite some time now, I had to ask someone I have a huge degree of respect for (and who has been a staunch, conservative SDA all of his life) just who Mr. Paulsen is. The response I received was that Mr. Paulsen is "quite grounded in the Bible and has a lot of good things to offer", obviously a different view than shared by others here so far. So, thank you for posting yet another perspective. We must remember that opinions are like noses - everybody has one (yeah, I changed that phrase a bit)!!

~~Snoopy~~

ps...regarding "are you ready to attack the GC too?".........didn't I read somewhere here on BSDA that DS/GM et al would not hesitate to sue the SDA church, or a conference or some related entity?? Perhaps it is only a matter of time before the DS/GM show drops a little dannygram in Maryland summoning the whole GC to court..... If I misread that, or misunderstood, I'll be more than happy to edit this post...I'm sure someone will correct me.........



This post has been edited by Snoopy: Jun 9 2007, 02:11 PM

[joyce]

Actually, SSoM, I appreciate you posting the information from Kevin Paulsen. Having not been closely associated with the SDA church for quite some time now, I had to ask someone I have a huge degree of respect for (and who has been a staunch, conservative SDA all of his life) just who Mr. Paulsen is. The response I received was that Mr. Paulsen is "quite grounded in the Bible and has a lot of good things to offer", obviously a different view than shared by others here so far. So, thank you for posting yet another perspective. We must remember that opinions are like noses - everybody has one (yeah, I changed that phrase a bit)!!

~~Snoopy~~

ps...regarding "are you ready to attack the GC too?".........didn't I read somewhere here on BSDA that DS/GM et al would not hesitate to sue the SDA church, or a conference or some related entity?? Perhaps it is only a matter of time before the DS/GM show drops a little dannygram in Maryland summoning the whole GC to court..... If I misread that, or misunderstood, I'll be more than happy to edit this post...I'm sure someone will correct me.........

Kevin Paulsen is actually a genius. When he was ten years old he recited a large section of the encyclopedia to me. He is a strong SDA, and when I last ran into him was at GC in ST Louis. He was a pastor, so I would expect him to be in the know as to church matters.

Joyce