Merger Off? Options

[lowender]

Ozzie,

Like I told lowender in a post up above a little bit, diet should be a personal choice. When a human worships the diet rather than the One who created the food in the first place, that is akin to having other gods before HIM. Bad news. Food is not the road to salvation. He is. Each person, in their own relationship with HIM will most likely address the diet issue with HIM, eventually. He does have some pretty specific input on keeping the "temple" healthy and clean. It makes a lot of sense to me as one who has tested what it is like both ways and with many substances both legal and not. Interestingly enough, many of those substances are plant based, could even be classified as "vegan" but have a definite impact on clarity of mind which is quite essential to spiritual health, IMO.

PB

Claiming that a vegan diet makes a person's mind more clear and thus having a closer walk with God is dangerously close to salvation by works.

[lowender]

If Americans ate the way Jesus ate, there would be far less heart disease, cancer, diabates, and the like.

The question isn't just whether He ate meat, but what percentage of His diet was meat, and how healthy the animals were that He ate.


I don't detect any speculation on the part of Ellen White or the authors of Psalms 106 and Numbers.

Anything that helps the mind think more clearly can help us in our relationship with God. And that may have been part of Kellogg's problem: he maybe should have gotten more sleep.

So Pickle... Are you thinking that maybe Jesus, who ate fish & also, with no cold storage, drank wine, was only responding to the times & culture around Him?

Wine was a necessary staple of middle eastern, Jewish diet at the time to avoid scurvy, a vitamin C deficiency. Fruit was not in season year-around.

[beartrap]

I guess I have been turned off vegans, because of a three year + period, where EVERY Sabbath School lesson was turned into a LECTURE about becoming a vegan. To be less, was akin to losing out on Heaven. One would never believe that people could turn EVERY Sabbath School lesson, no matter what the original topic, into a LECTURE on veganism and the perils of those who did not share those beliefs. My husband will no longer attend S/S because of that. He was certainly made to feel by SOME people that he would never be saved in the Kingdom because he wasn't even vegetarian, let alone vegan! Sad, but true.

One ended up with the impression 'Righteousness by Food', rather than 'Righteousness by Faith'. I have no problem with people who choose that lifestyle. More power to them, but other Christians should never be made to feel that they have no hope of Eternity because they do not subscribe to the same beliefs. How many Christians have been turned away, by attitudes similar to those who were (and remain I understand) so offensive?

Sorry! I guess this is

I know. It seems that many vegans become militant zealots about it. It really is a major turn off when veganism becomes a fundamental doctrine. Being a former Weimartian myself I have studied, and am aware of the EGW and Kellogg teachings regarding meat and dairy consumption.

The militant attitude you describe as offensive regarding food is not limited to food. There are a variety of non-salvational issues that are often made central to salvation in the same manner: jewelry, music, hair styles, attire, etc.

I am not saying that all vegans are that way, but so many have become so militant about it that they give veganism a bad name.

[Artiste]

I am not saying that all vegans are that way, but so many have become so militant about it that they give veganism a bad name.

I have to agree with you on that.


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[lowender]

I know. It seems that many vegans become militant zealots about it. It really is a major turn off when veganism becomes a fundamental doctrine. Being a former Weimartian myself I have studied, and am aware of the EGW and Kellogg teachings regarding meat and dairy consumption.

The militant attitude you describe as offensive regarding food is not limited to food. There are a variety of non-salvational issues that are often made central to salvation in the same manner: jewelry, music, hair styles, attire, etc.

I am not saying that all vegans are that way, but so many have become so militant about it that they give veganism a bad name.

If someone chooses to eat a vegan diet, then I got no argument with that. But when some vegans choose to claim that it is essential in preparation for heaven & brings them closer to God, then they lose their credibility. NOWHERE does the Bible suggest that..

[beartrap]

If someone chooses to eat a vegan diet, then I got no argument with that. But when some vegans choose to claim that it is essential in preparation for heaven & brings them closer to God, then they lose their credibility. NOWHERE does the Bible suggest that..

No it doesn't. Just as the zealotry of following a man and holding his words and works as unquestionably divine is not biblically supported, veganism as a spiritual requirement or mandate is not.

BTW, we are way off topic, but it always comes around to food here on BSDA. LOL!

[Artiste]

No it doesn't. Just as the zealotry of following a man and holding his words and works as unquestionably divine is not biblically supported, veganism as a spiritual requirement or mandate is not.

BTW, we are way off topic, but it always comes around to food here on BSDA. LOL!

Sometimes vegan cooking in churches where I've been seems like a competitive sport. I think that a plant-based diet is more healthy, but some of the presentations of cooking that are described as vegan don't fall under the catagory of most healthy as far as I'm concerned.


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This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 13 2007, 01:50 AM

[lowender]

No it doesn't. Just as the zealotry of following a man and holding his words and works as unquestionably divine is not biblically supported, veganism as a spiritual requirement or mandate is not.

BTW, we are way off topic, but it always comes around to food here on BSDA. LOL!

Yeah it is off-topic, but I think it's a good thing. I have changed the channel from 3ABN to the History Channel, or FOX news multiple times when 3ABN features another VEGAN cooking program.

These sda vegans who claim that their way of eating will take them to a higher, closer walk with God are bad for our church. Making the church appear to be a salvation-by-works denomination. That's why we should discuss it, that's why we should recognize the negativity and the bad smell that militant veganism brings.

[mystery- man]

Yeah it is off-topic, but I think it's a good thing. I have changed the channel from 3ABN to the History Channel, or FOX news multiple times when 3ABN features another VEGAN cooking program.

These sda vegans who claim that their way of eating will take them to a higher, closer walk with God are bad for our church. Making the church appear to be a salvation-by-works denomination. That's why we should discuss it, that's why we should recognize the negativity and the bad smell that militant veganism brings.

No I dont think that those shows (vegan cooking programs) give adventist a bad name I believe it gives those who do not practice what Adventist Believe a bad feeling.
Contrary to what some believe (this is way way off topic )this is what Adventist have believed since the time of Ellen G. White the problem seems to arrise, in my opinion, when there are those who are not Adventist try and change Adventist beliefs. Ellen white wrote that those who eat meat in the last days will walk with Gods people no more (not a exact quote). Some of what is said makes no since at all in my humble opinion its like saying if adventist dont stop preaching the sabbath it will make the church appear to be a salvation-by-works denomination. What is considered militant veganism is in fact the Adventist way just as much as the writing of Ellen G. White are part of Adventism. Advenist principles and doctrine are written around the concept of veganism clearing the mind. In another statement Ellen. G. White says that ministers who eat meat should not be trusted to lead. This is what Aventist are have taught and continue to teach since their early conception. Let me bring this back on topic does Danny or Linda or anyone at 3abn eat meat, maybe that could be the problem

[mystery- man]

I have to agree with you on that.
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Could it be the reason you think the way you do is because you are a meat head

[lowender]

No I dont think that those shows (vegan cooking programs) give adventist a bad name I believe it gives those who do not practice what Adventist Believe a bad feeling.
Contrary to what some believe (this is way way off topic )this is what Adventist have believed since the time of Ellen G. White the problem seems to arrise, in my opinion, when there are those who are not Adventist try and change Adventist beliefs. Ellen white wrote that those who eat meat in the last days will walk with Gods people no more (not a exact quote). Some of what is said makes no since at all in my humble opinion its like saying if adventist dont stop preaching the sabbath it will make the church appear to be a salvation-by-works denomination. What is considered militant veganism is in fact the Adventist way just as much as the writing of Ellen G. White are part of Adventism. Advenist principles and doctrine are written around the concept of veganism clearing the mind. In another statement Ellen. G. White says that ministers who eat meat should not be trusted to lead. This is what Aventist are have taught and continue to teach since their early conception. Let me bring this back on topic does Danny or Linda or anyone at 3abn eat meat, maybe that could be the problem

What about our Lord and His non-vegan diet? Should He be not trusted to lead?

[beartrap]

No I dont think that those shows (vegan cooking programs) give adventist a bad name I believe it gives those who do not practice what Adventist Believe a bad feeling.
Contrary to what some believe (this is way way off topic )this is what Adventist have believed since the time of Ellen G. White the problem seems to arrise, in my opinion, when there are those who are not Adventist try and change Adventist beliefs. Ellen white wrote that those who eat meat in the last days will walk with Gods people no more (not a exact quote). Some of what is said makes no since at all in my humble opinion its like saying if adventist dont stop preaching the sabbath it will make the church appear to be a salvation-by-works denomination. What is considered militant veganism is in fact the Adventist way just as much as the writing of Ellen G. White are part of Adventism. Advenist principles and doctrine are written around the concept of veganism clearing the mind. In another statement Ellen. G. White says that ministers who eat meat should not be trusted to lead. This is what Aventist are have taught and continue to teach since their early conception. Let me bring this back on topic does Danny or Linda or anyone at 3abn eat meat, maybe that could be the problem

Would you say that Jesus was wrong in eating meat? What about when He fed fish to 5,000 people? Was He leading them, and everyone who would read the story over the next couple thousand years, into error? Would you suppose that when He came to Earth to set an example for all time, that He set a bad example that should not be followed? Does our doctrine supercede that of Jesus? Are we now wiser than Him? Would you agree that if there is no Biblical support for veganism as a test for leadership and walking with God's people, it is unbiblical? Would you agree that principles and doctrine written around an entirely unbiblical concept could, and should, be considered highly suspect? Islam claims that Jesus was a great prophet, but that one even greater than Him came later. Backing up the teachings of Jesus is what would be expected of Christians. Teaching that the example Jesus set, and that His actions here on Earth make a person untrustworthy for leadership, and will exclude a person from walking with God's people is shocking as the term Christian implies that one is like Christ. Jesus fed fish to His diciples. Was He purposely making them unfit for the leadership that He had trained them for, or was He just ignorant of the wisdom that we now possess? Was He making them unfit to walk with God's people?

[mystery- man]

Would you say that Jesus was wrong in eating meat? What about when He fed fish to 5,000 people? Was He leading them, and everyone who would read the story over the next couple thousand years, into error? Would you suppose that when He came to Earth to set an example for all time, that He set a bad example that should not be followed? Does our doctrine supercede that of Jesus? Are we now wiser than Him? Would you agree that if there is no Biblical support for veganism as a test for leadership and walking with God's people, it is unbiblical? Would you agree that principles and doctrine written around an entirely unbiblical concept could, and should, be considered highly suspect? Islam claims that Jesus was a great prophet, but that one even greater than Him came later. Backing up the teachings of Jesus is what would be expected of Christians. Teaching that the example Jesus set, and that His actions here on Earth make a person untrustworthy for leadership, and will exclude a person from walking with God's people is shocking as the term Christian implies that one is like Christ. Jesus fed fish to His diciples. Was He purposely making them unfit for the leadership that He had trained them for, or was He just ignorant of the wisdom that we now possess? Was He making them unfit to walk with God's people?

Great speech but very little substance Obviously the meat back then was not contaminated as it is today. Obviously God would not have directed Ellen G. White to write something if he knew it would go against what he had previously written unless you no longer believe in the writtings or Ellen G. White as being inspired. Just about everyone will tell you down to the meat packers at Krogers that the meat supply is contaminated to the extent that it is not safe to eat. I do believe if Jesus were here today he would not eat it either..... Obviously God knows something indicitive of the meat that we should not eat it. No Ellen G. White was not wrong what she says stands today and is a part of the Adventist belief.

[lowender]

Great speech but very little substance Obviously the meat back then was not contaminated as it is today. Obviously God would not have directed Ellen G. White to write something if he knew it would go against what he had previously written unless you no longer believe in the writtings or Ellen G. White as being inspired. Just about everyone will tell you down to the meat packers at Krogers that the meat supply is contaminated to the extent that it is not safe to eat. I do believe if Jesus were here today he would not eat it either..... Obviously God knows something indicitive of the meat that we should not eat it. No Ellen G. White was not wrong what she says stands today and is a part of the Adventist belief.

So in your opinion, what Ellen White writes supercedes the Bible? Has it ever donned on you that in the days of Jesus' ministry, there was no such thing as REFRIGERATION? Your statement that "meat back then was not contaminated as it is today" is purely subjective. Your statement, MysteryMan, is the one that lacks substance... Some scattered instances of meat contamination does not mean that all meat is tainted.

[Whitey]

Lowender (Joined: 30-May 07)
A few quotes of his from all over this Board…

“But what I find really funny & amusing is how some on here think I'm being serious...”

lowender the Anti-Vegan :

“What about our Lord and His non-vegan diet? Should He be not trusted to lead?”

“These sda vegans who claim that their way of eating will take them to a higher, closer walk with God are bad for our church.”

“Claiming that a vegan diet makes a person's mind more clear and thus having a closer walk with God is dangerously close to salvation by works.”

“You havent been at Weimar, have you Espresso? HA! I went to college there a year & a half & it turned me into a staunch meat eater... Coke drinker too! Anyway... Some of those vegans smell like a barnyard in my opinion.”

-end-
(long live ReligiousLiberty )