New 3abn President, Jim Gilley Options

[appletree]

Appletree, how 'bout you produce those board minutes so we can see them? Make sure the dates correlate ...

Gilley's resume isn't going to say much about dealing with sin in the camp.

I don't have an opinion as whether Jim is the right guy or not. It remains to be seen whether he'll lead them into a more truthful style of dealing with crises.

I don't know what Doug Batchelor was thinking, or what the behind-the-scenes conversations were. The bottom line was that he wanted to merge and either changed his mind, or had to submit to a board who thought AF and 3ABN together was not a good plan.

Donations at AF went down after the announcement of the merger, did they not? Whether or not Jim Gilley's reputation was good among fellow church employees before, it's not likely to stay high from here on out ... unless he puts his foot down and cleans things up.

Now you know the board minutes cannot be displayed for public viewing. 3abn is involved in a lawsuit. That kind of information will only be seen in Federal court.

This has been addressed before. It was not AF's or Doug's decision to quit working on the merger. It was 3abn's. Doug was willing to keep trying. If you don't believe that, then ask him. Also, they are both open to possibilities in the future if the obstacles, which neither side has control of, can be worked out.

Same old repeats going on here. Attack whomever is joining 3abn. If they were respected and credible people they suddenly changed overnight. Both had better "clean up" 3abn or you all will turn on them and their reputations will be in ruins.....same stories, same lines, different people. Nothing new under the sun here.

[appletree]

Do you know who you are talking to? I'm jes' askin'............... Or maybe you do, and are you threatening another member? Now, one just makes you ignorant and the other will get you banned. Which one is it?

Actually Di, I know who I'm talking to much better than you do and that makes all the difference.

Now my choices are, according to you, that either I am ignorant or I am threatening another member. Obviously you left out a 3rd option and the one that makes the most sense. I am merely giving good advice. You really should applaud me for that.

Now I have a question. What punishment do you mete out to yourself for calling another member ignorant?

[princessdi]

Your number three is not an option here, sorry. You have been warned. If you have another way of contacting Derrell, since you know him so well, then you give him your "advice" through that medium of communication, it is not allowed here, not even in PM. There is obviousy some history here, and you would do well to keep it between you two, as adults. In case, you didn't know your adivce was a thinly veiled threat. I know it, you know it, and there is no need for trying to convince us otherwise. Have you been doing handling your business this way so long that you don't know the difference between right and wrong? At any rate, long as you are here you will be reminded.

ignorant: an adjective

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

There is no punishment meted out for suggesting you lacked information.

Actually Di, I know who I'm talking to much better than you do and that makes all the difference.

Now my choices are, according to you, that either I am ignorant or I am threatening another member. Obviously you left out a 3rd option and the one that makes the most sense. I am merely giving good advice. You really should applaud me for that.

Now I have a question. What punishment do you mete out to yourself for calling another member ignorant?

[Pickle]

Now you know the board minutes cannot be displayed for public viewing. 3abn is involved in a lawsuit. That kind of information will only be seen in Federal court.

Cop out. Cop out. Cop out.

I'm involved in a lawsuit, and I wouldn't refuse for such a reason, not at all.

But then, I'm not you.

[SoulEspresso]

Same old repeats going on here. Attack whomever is joining 3abn. If they were respected and credible people they suddenly changed overnight. Both had better "clean up" 3abn or you all will turn on them and their reputations will be in ruins.....same stories, same lines, different people. Nothing new under the sun here.

It's not same-old-same-old, appletree. You can try and spin whatever you want, but the truth is that 3ABN has problems, and if they're going to see a way through, they need new leadership and a new direction. I hope that Gilley can provide it, but the wording of 3ABN's announcement seems like it's more of the same thing.

I would remind you that all of us want to see people saved, as many people saved as possible, as many people as possible saved as quickly as possible, and sanctified as fast as possible, so that all can be ready when Jesus comes. The original documents on save3abn paint a dreadful picture that none from your POV have been able to counter with like evidence.

Even if somehow it's all fabricated, the current leadership of 3ABN needs to put the cause of Christ ahead of pride of placement and personal reputation, and go quietly into the sunset. This has gone on long enough.

[panther]

Cop out. Cop out. Cop out.

I'm involved in a lawsuit, and I wouldn't refuse for such a reason, not at all.

But then, I'm not you.

Not a cop out Pickle. It is doing what the lawyers have asked. You say you wouldn't refuse for such a reason--well, if your lawyer told you to, you would...or you would not have a lawyer. It is very easy to figure out.

[Ozzie]

Not a cop out Pickle. It is doing what the lawyers have asked. You say you wouldn't refuse for such a reason--well, if your lawyer told you to, you would...or you would not have a lawyer. It is very easy to figure out.

Your claws are showing Panther!

[Pickle]

double post

This post has been edited by Pickle: Sep 4 2007, 07:40 PM

[Pickle]

Not a cop out Pickle. It is doing what the lawyers have asked. You say you wouldn't refuse for such a reason--well, if your lawyer told you to, you would...or you would not have a lawyer. It is very easy to figure out.

You are very right. If my lawyer won't allow me to do the right thing, I won't have a lawyer. Even if I lose my house. Because one day I'm going to have to answer the Judge of all the earth, who did the right thing, and poured out His blood on Calvary, even when He didn't want to.

[Aletheia]

It's not same-old-same-old, appletree. You can try and spin whatever you want, but the truth is that 3ABN has problems, and if they're going to see a way through, they need new leadership and a new direction. I hope that Gilley can provide it, but the wording of 3ABN's announcement seems like it's more of the same thing.

I would remind you that all of us want to see people saved, as many people saved as possible, as many people as possible saved as quickly as possible, and sanctified as fast as possible, so that all can be ready when Jesus comes. The original documents on save3abn paint a dreadful picture that none from your POV have been able to counter with like evidence.

Even if somehow it's all fabricated, the current leadership of 3ABN needs to put the cause of Christ ahead of pride of placement and personal reputation, and go quietly into the sunset. This has gone on long enough.

Ok, it's a given from your posts and that of others that you think 3ABN has problems, but nobody was complaining or finding fault with ASI, Doug Batchelor, nor Jim Gilley till now

And suddenly there were problems with them and those problems weren't even related to 3ABN

Nobody seems like they have considered , or are considering now, that maybe, Pastor Doug, ASI and Jim Gilley know 3ABN and the people involved better then you all do, or that they are aware of the true facts, and no better then to believe all the claims and accusations posted here and on save3abn, and that's why they support 3ABN.

Surely you can see that? Suddenly the topics became "How many times was Doug married? How many children? weren't they out of wedlock? did you hear what he said in his sermon on adultery? Oh my! That's terrible, but what can you expect? now it's wasn't Jim Gilley involved in some scandal? isn't he soft on adultery? and then as soon as ASI stated they had to withdraw due to the tactics and characters and such with Pickle and Joy,we have how many articles finding fault with , and critical of ASI?

How much did Pickle buy all of what was posted both here and on the save 3abn website about them, which was so negative, and critical of them (much of it by himself)?

He believed it all so much he ran screaming from them and refused to fellowship with them?!?

Nope! He applied to join them. Talk about absurd.


(BTW- hows that going Pickle?)

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 4 2007, 07:50 PM

[lowender]

I don't know this new fellow, Jim Gilley. But until Danny Shelton steps down & away from 3ABN permanently, then 3ABN cannot be considered an honest endeavor that is worthy of any donations.

[no_cults]

Please demonstrate that what BearTrap said was not true.


So we have AppleTree on the record that he believes Jim Gilley will not be cleaning up the corruption. Thus, according to AppleTree, Elder Gilley will be part of the problem, not part of the solution. I beg to differ, since I choose to give Elder Gilley the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

And AppleTree, could you be so kind as to quote where I "attacked" Doug?
Danny will remain? How so? Linda wasn't allowed to remain even though the charges against her were never documented to the point that the charges against Danny presently are. Why the diff? Is this how we spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y?

Will Danny be CEO? Will Jim Gilley answer to Danny, or will Danny answer to Jim Gilley? Which is it?



And are you prepared to certify under oath that the board minutes have not been altered in any way, unlike the billing records in the Nick Miller story, and that the board minutes reflect all the reasons that were behind the board's decision?

I once was on a committee that purposely kept something out of the minutes to avoid detection. I told them all, "We can't do that. We're not like Bill Clinton." It was dead silence for a few moments. (If you object to the particular politician I mentioned, substitute a different name.)

As far as no recent accusations against Tommy goes, that isn't the issue. The issue is that Danny covered up those allegations in 2003, even though it potentially put 3ABN and the Illinois Conference at risk. And for that, Danny should resign. And Jim Gilley, being a former conference president, knows full well the potential liability conduct like Danny's can cause. It gets discussed all the time in conference meetings.

I talked to a head elder recently who sits on a conference committee, and he knew all about these kind of liability issues.

Please excuse me for buttin in here.... but it would appear to me that the
answer to all this speculation involving Jim Gilley could be anwered easily
by asking a simple question.

Will Danny Shelton continue to be involved with 3ABN in a "management
role"? (CEO, Chm or Chm emeritas of the Board)

If he will continue to be involved and have any sort of "position of power",
then news with Gilley being a president is just another deparate attempt
to fool those "little old ladies" out there, where a substantial part of
their support is.

[LaurenceD]

I know almost a dozen of these little old ladies, and they are no longer fooled...and they are no longer donors. Each one of them told me that it was the DS/LS divorce that opened their eyes, nothing else. I think DS thought his explanation of the cause of the divorce would maintain the status quo...boy was he wrong!

[princessdi]

I don't know about ASI( even though with all I have heard from other's and reading their own info on their site, they do remind me of the pseudo-religious groups in the Frank Perretti books) or Jim Gilley, but about Doug Bachelor and AF, what stands out are the words, "now merger". After all the dreams and visions,a nd magazine cover, and contrary to Danny's inferrence that it was a done deal, we have no merger. now, it wasn't all somebody thought it was cracked up to be. Not saying it was either one in particular.

Perhaps, Coindy, you can enlighten us on why the merger didn't go through? I am curious, and very serious. I was really leaning toward that thought that they could not reconcile AF still being under the control of the church through NCC, and 3ABN being totally independent, even claiming being non denominational at this point. The merger owuld have required one to change the affiliation, as it were. I kind of felt that might be a sticking point. didnt' see Danny giving control of 3ABN over to anyone,a nd I didnt' see AF coming from under the chur's umbrella. Even, though I do believe that Danny thougth since he initiated the move, he would be able to set more of the ground rules. Therfore, not really anyone's fault just mutally could not come to a conclusion. Am I close?

Ok, it's a given from your posts and that of others that you think 3ABN has problems, but nobody was complaining or finding fault with ASI, Doug Batchelor, nor Jim Gilley till now

And suddenly there were problems with them and those problems weren't even related to 3ABN

Nobody seems like they have considered , or are considering now, that maybe, Pastor Doug, ASI and Jim Gilley know 3ABN and the people involved better then you all do, or that they are aware of the true facts, and no better then to believe all the claims and accusations posted here and on save3abn, and that's why they support 3ABN.

Surely you can see that? Suddenly the topics became "How many times was Doug married? How many children? weren't they out of wedlock? did you hear what he said in his sermon on adultery? Oh my! That's terrible, but what can you expect? now it's wasn't Jim Gilley involved in some scandal? isn't he soft on adultery? and then as soon as ASI stated they had to withdraw due to the tactics and characters and such with Pickle and Joy,we have how many articles finding fault with , and critical of ASI?

How much did Pickle buy all of what was posted both here and on the save 3abn website about them, which was so negative, and critical of them (much of it by himself)?

He believed it all so much he ran screaming from them and refused to fellowship with them?!?

Nope! He applied to join them. Talk about absurd.
(BTW- hows that going Pickle?)

[no_cults]

I know almost a dozen of these little old ladies, and they are no longer fooled...and they are no longer donors. Each one of them told me that it was the DS/LS divorce that opened their eyes, nothing else. I think DS thought his explanation of the cause of the divorce would maintain the status quo...boy was he wrong!

There is no stronger supporter than my mother was. She is 81 and
worked for her little "nest-egg" till she was 72 yrs old. Worked hard.

She very nearly worshipped DS and what they were doing and whole-
heartedly believed in 3abn. She has given them thru irrevokable
annunities just about all of her money.

She now, no longer sends them anything. A friend of hers.... another
"little old lady" also sends them no money now.

These were not marginal supporters either. I'm talking about the kind
that has their TV tuned to them nearly all day long.... and send them
nearly every spare cent they can.

Of course, I can take credit for some of their change of heart... but
she also showed me a letter that was being passed out at the church
she attends that wasn't very flattering to DS.

Gee, I sure hope I don't get sued !!!!

Does anyone know a good lawyer and what would be the prospects
of revoking her "irrevolkable" annuities --- since she is now diagnosed
with "senile dementia"?????

No doubt..... DS would fight this action tooth and toe-nail.