Jim Gilley Takes Over As President Options

[Dallas]

Dallas,

Simple question: Does Jim Gilley plan on getting to the bottom of the various issues that have been raised? If yes, he is part of the solution. If no, he is part of the problem.

Based on the third paragraph of your original post, the answer appears to be no. Is that correct?

If he doesn't plan on getting to the bottom of the various issues, he never should have taken the job. Getting to the bottom of things is one of the most essential qualifications needed at this time, and if he doesn't want to do that, he isn't qualified for the job.

Notice how the newspaper account above said that Danny Shelton requested that the board appoint Jim Gilley. Since when does someone like Danny get to do a thing like that, if that really is the truth? We have in that claim evidence that it's business as usual at 3ABN.

And why would Danny pick Jim Gilley? Did Danny think that Gilley wasn't going to get to the bottom of things?

Bob

Since I personally know that you have spoken to Jim, you probably got a feeling on how he thought these accusations could best be handled. Was it not insinuated that any and all lawsuits should be settled in court so that there is no behind the scene deals that happen for forums such as this to gossip about, Let everyone get on the stand and swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and see what comes out. Then let the chips fall where they may, seems to be the best way to handle this problem. Because Jim is not responsible for what happened at 3ABN prior to September 6, 2007 this way there would be no way to say that Jim was being bias to either side of this situation. The courts would make the decisions and 3ABN could get on with spreading the good news.

Seems to me that this would be the best way to handle all situations prior to Jim's becoming President! I know you think you have things that
can bring down 3ABN and topple this ministry however, I remind you that 3ABN is God's Ministry and He will raise up or tear down it's leaders
no matter what you and I say.

in God's peace

dallas

[Dallas]

There are SDA ministers who wish to persue business interests outside of what would normally be appropriate for a SDA pastor. In those cases, the minsiter has offered to work for the Conference for a nomilnal fee, with the understanding that the pastor could persue thsoe business interests at the same time.

As one example of this, I am aware of a SDA pastor who has some standing in the denominaaiton. He once (about 20 years ago) asked the Conference to allow him to be the President of a company that was selling bottled water. In this case, the Conference refused, and the pastor remains a congregational pastor to this day.

There are other such examples. In some cases the respective Conference has refused to allow it, and in other cases the pastor has been allowed to do so.

It should also be noted that there have been cases in which a SDA evangelist has organized a business entity to support evangelism, and special arrangement have been worked out in regard to Conference employment, and payments. OFten these have benefited the denomination in that the denomination was limited in regard to the accrued expenses, and they benefited the evangelist in that regard to the authority to make financial decisions, expendatures, rental fo facilities and purchase of equipment.

Wow how quickly you guys can make up stories that have no relevant to this situations then try to tie them back to this situation with one simple strand similarities and because of that strand attempt to discredit.

Sounds more like an enemy attack, than someone who wants to build a ministry for the Lord!


dallas

[Observer]

Wow how quickly you guys can make up stories that have no relevant to this situations then try to tie them back to this situation with one simple strand similarities and because of that strand attempt to discredit.

Sounds more like an enemy attack, than someone who wants to build a ministry for the Lord!
dallas

Dallas":

Please tell me how my quoted post is in any way an attempt to discredit or attack Elder Gilley?

Your response, which appears to be tied to my post, seems to come from one who either did not read my post, or does not understand it.

For the record, I have taken a neutral posistion on Elder Gilley. I am willing to wait and see what he attempts and how effective he is in what he does.

[Johann]

Dallas":

Please tell me how my quoted post is in any way an attempt to discredit or attack Elder Gilley?

Your response, which appears to be tied to my post, seems to come from one who either did not read my post, or does not understand it.

For the record, I have taken a neutral posistion on Elder Gilley. I am willing to wait and see what he attempts and how effective he is in what he does.

Any stories or attacks in your post were completely hidden. Communication is difficult where comprehension is non-existent. But let's give Dallas the benefit of considering it an unfortunate mistake.

[Pickle]

Bob

Since I personally know that you have spoken to Jim, you probably got a feeling on how he thought these accusations could best be handled. Was it not insinuated that any and all lawsuits should be settled in court so that there is no behind the scene deals that happen for forums such as this to gossip about, Let everyone get on the stand and swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and see what comes out. Then let the chips fall where they may, seems to be the best way to handle this problem. Because Jim is not responsible for what happened at 3ABN prior to September 6, 2007 this way there would be no way to say that Jim was being bias to either side of this situation. The courts would make the decisions and 3ABN could get on with spreading the good news.

Seems to me that this would be the best way to handle all situations prior to Jim's becoming President! I know you think you have things that
can bring down 3ABN and topple this ministry however, I remind you that 3ABN is God's Ministry and He will raise up or tear down it's leaders
no matter what you and I say.

in God's peace

dallas

Dallas,

I felt it would be unfair to Elder Gilley to make any comments whatsoever based on our conversation, or to even allude to the fact that we had talked. That's why I didn't even hint at that. I thought he would appreciate it more if our conversations were off the record. But since you have spilled the beans, I will make a few comments.

There were aspects of our last conversation that really trouble me, namely what you have said above regarding it all coming out in court. I think the position he has taken regarding it being best for it all to come out in court is quite irresponsible as well as inconsistent.

First of all, he has told the 3ABN Board that he will not be looking into the past, which means he will not be looking into the present either, since it is the present situation he was referring to when he said that he had said that. That the 3ABN Board would put a man into the 3ABN presidency who has chosen to not deal with the present is further evidence, in my opinion, of the deep corruption present in the 3ABN Board.

More than that, if his job description would have included dealing with the past (present), he wouldn't have taken the job. Correct? That tells us just how firm the position is that he has taken to ignore or cover up the present allegations.

Secondly, in talking about my contacting a pastor who had something to do with my being a Seventh-day Adventist today, Elder Gilley strongly recommended that I not breathe a word about any of this to him. (Can't tell him I've been sued?) And yet Elder Gilley has no problem with all of this coming out in court, which will possibly mean coming out in the media too? Does that make a bit of sense? If he doesn't want bad publicity, why have it come out in court but not out of court?

Thirdly, wanting all this to come out in court because people can testify under oath, who is naive enough to think that that is the best way to handle things? Or that that even works? In reading through the tax appeal documents, it dawned on me what that possibly could mean. People can lie through their teeth while under oath, and then if no one rebuts their testimony, those lies somehow become the official, unrebutted truth.

Let me add that I do not appreciate your insinuation that I have things that can bring down and topple 3ABN. If 3ABN goes down it will not be my fault. It will be the fault of those who molested, lied, bullied, fired, covered up, and refused to deal with the issues in a professional, Christian, and transparent manner. And I am not the one who has favored behind the scenes deals that could provide fodder for gossip.

Jim Gilley on the air on global TV told Danny Shelton that if he was going to disappear, he wouldn't have taken the job. By a public declaration like that, Gilley has made it very clear which side of the fence he intends to be on. Has he changed his mind?

Who would have ever dreamed that a former NAD vice-president would say on global TV to a man who divorced his wife without biblical grounds, a man who claimed that his new wife had chased him for 17 years, a man who bought a $135,000 asset from his own non-profit for $6,139, a man who declared to the IRS on the 1998 990 (signing it under penalty of perjury) that he had done no such thing, a man who according to his own board chairman said things about his brother's child molestation allegations in 2003 that couldn't possibly be true: "If you were going to disappear I wouldn't have taken the job." Who would have ever dreamed!

When a pastor comes to a new district, he often has to somewhat ignore the stories that this or that faction tell him. But the 3ABN corruption scandal can't be successfully handled that way, in my opinion. Ignore the present but still give us money only sends the very strong message that it's business as usual at 3ABN. And God will not pour out His blessings while there is sin in the camp.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Sep 30 2007, 11:01 AM

[summertime]

Hmm. Maybe that answers my question. Did I see wrong yesterday or Thursday on the 3ABN.org TV schedule that Danny was supposed to preach the sermon this morning? Maybe I saw wrong, but that's what I thought I saw.

I did not hear earlier announcements, but Pastor Gilley did preach the Sabbath Morning sermon. Danny sang before and after his sermon. Apparently Pastor Gilley had asked Danny to sing songs that he had written applicable to the sermon. I did enjoy the sermon (or so I thought) but now I am beginning to doubt--mainly he started his sermon by saying something about 3ABN not being run like a club and then started talking about his own weight. We are going to have to wait and see, but for now, for me, I will be watching Safe and Hope TVs. 3ABN is too bewildering, questionably honest and superficial---every man for himself. 'summertime'

This post has been edited by summertime: Sep 30 2007, 11:30 AM

[appletree]

Wow how quickly you guys can make up stories that have no relevant to this situations then try to tie them back to this situation with one simple strand similarities and because of that strand attempt to discredit.

Sounds more like an enemy attack, than someone who wants to build a ministry for the Lord!
dallas

Dallas as you continue, you will be shocked to see how how things are twisted, turned, guessed at, and speculated on, only then, to be taken as the gospel truth. When we refute those things, we are immediately labeled as "not christian" with "bad attitudes", "liars" or worse. The other side can gossip all day long and call people adulterers, liars, thieves and what have you with absolutely nothing to back it up. Our side can give an "eye witness" report to certain happenings and events and they immediately demand some kind of documentation.

But, don't give up. Keep reporting what you know to be facts and there will be plenty of lurkers that can discern what's what.

[appletree]

Let me add that I do not appreciate your insinuation that I have things that can bring down and topple 3ABN. If 3ABN goes down it will not be my fault. It will be the fault of those who molested, lied, bullied, fired, covered up, and refused to deal with the issues in a professional, Christian, and transparent manner. And I am not the one who has favored behind the scenes deals that could provide fodder for gossip.

And...that is why you put huge titles and big enquirer sensational headlines on your site?

[lowender]

Appletree...

Can we expect to see an exciting 3ABN float at the Old King Coal Festival in Thompsonville this fall?

Will 3ABN have a booth there?

[SoulEspresso]

There were aspects of our last conversation that really trouble me, namely what you have said above regarding it all coming out in court. I think the position he has taken regarding it being best for it all to come out in court is quite irresponsible as well as inconsistent.

First of all, he has told the 3ABN Board that he will not be looking into the past, which means he will not be looking into the present either, since it is the present situation he was referring to when he said that he had said that. That the 3ABN Board would put a man into the 3ABN presidency who has chosen to not deal with the present is further evidence, in my opinion, of the deep corruption present in the 3ABN Board.

More than that, if his job description would have included dealing with the past (present), he wouldn't have taken the job. Correct? That tells us just how firm the position is that he has taken to ignore or cover up the present allegations.

This says it all. If anybody's going to treat 3ABN's wounds, it isn't going to be Elder Gilley. At least not yet. Let's hope he has the guts to change his mind.

Dallas as you continue, you will be shocked to see how how things are twisted, turned, guessed at, and speculated on, only then, to be taken as the gospel truth. When we refute those things, we are immediately labeled as "not christian" with "bad attitudes", "liars" or worse. The other side can gossip all day long and call people adulterers, liars, thieves and what have you with absolutely nothing to back it up. Our side can give an "eye witness" report to certain happenings and events and they immediately demand some kind of documentation.

Yeah. Except that save3abn.com is bleeding documentation and "your side" has produced ... what?

Eyewitness reports count for zero without identification, appletree. I don't care if you want to be anonymous or not, that's your choice, and I'd never push the issue. But so far all the only eyewitnesses who have admitted who they are are on the other side. Until you really do produce someone who is willing to say, "I'm so and so, and I have the smoking gun ..." your channel will continue to bleed funds and lose credibility.

I'm not trying to be unkind, but we have to deal in realities here.

But, don't give up. Keep reporting what you know to be facts and there will be plenty of lurkers that can discern what's what.

Yeah they can.

Edited to combine replies.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Oct 1 2007, 05:32 AM

[Shepherdswife]

Dallas as you continue, you will be shocked to see how how things are twisted, turned, guessed at, and speculated on, only then, to be taken as the gospel truth. When we refute those things, we are immediately labeled as "not christian" with "bad attitudes", "liars" or worse. The other side can gossip all day long and call people adulterers, liars, thieves and what have you with absolutely nothing to back it up. Our side can give an "eye witness" report to certain happenings and events and they immediately demand some kind of documentation.

But, don't give up. Keep reporting what you know to be facts and there will be plenty of lurkers that can discern what's what.

Appletree, when I came to this board I had no dog in the fight either way. Still don't--but I can tell you that my "discerning" has not seen what you are describing. Yes, there is a lot of speculation and jumping to conclusions by people on both sides, and no, I don't think that is helpful. But when the "facts" are compared, I cannot see how 3ABN has much of a leg to stand on so far.

Their "refutation" has been "No, it didn't happen that way and we can prove it". (but without accompanying proof) "You can't prove it" and "How can you say that, look at all the good he has done". An anonymous eye-witness account doesn't fly as proof, for either side. The demands for documentation that have popped up when you supply your "proof" are no more numerous than the same demands I have heard from your side when anonymous speculation comes from the other side.

So far, the only "proof" I have seen have been the save3abn documents. Whether or not you agree it should be posted, at least it is out there in black and white and has names attached to it. And it is pretty convincing when you read it all--at least it makes the case that something seems not to be right at 3ABN, whoever you choose to blame.

I understand you sticking to your guns. You are committed, and I appreciate your loyalty. You have every right to your opinion, but please don't assume that you have supplied "proof" to us. You have supplied an opinion and some rebuttal stories, and told us that you know what you are talking about. That could be evidence to me, which if I was a juror would weigh in with all the other circumstantial evidence, but it would not be proof. At least not to me.

shepherdswife

[princessdi]

If you take a position such as Pastor Gilley has in a church which is troubled as 3ABN is, then the pastor will have to deal with the problems in order for the church to go forward. It is the same here. There are issues which need to be dealt with which have not been in the past, hence the mess. Pastor Gilley maybe a clean slate, but 3ABN is not. He does not have to answer for the wrongs that were done, but he sure better wear the hat of sherriff, along with the others and correct whatever situations exist that allowed 3ABN to go down this path. Otherwise, if he allows the status quo, if he is part of it or not, he will be seen as such or as Danny's puppet at best. Doesn't the Bible talk about vessels which are nice looking on the outside? They can't just put a new face up there, like a rug and cover all of the problems, hoping that no one notices, the lump in the rug.

Bob

Since I personally know that you have spoken to Jim, you probably got a feeling on how he thought these accusations could best be handled. Was it not insinuated that any and all lawsuits should be settled in court so that there is no behind the scene deals that happen for forums such as this to gossip about, Let everyone get on the stand and swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and see what comes out. Then let the chips fall where they may, seems to be the best way to handle this problem. Because Jim is not responsible for what happened at 3ABN prior to September 6, 2007 this way there would be no way to say that Jim was being bias to either side of this situation. The courts would make the decisions and 3ABN could get on with spreading the good news.

Seems to me that this would be the best way to handle all situations prior to Jim's becoming President! I know you think you have things that
can bring down 3ABN and topple this ministry however, I remind you that 3ABN is God's Ministry and He will raise up or tear down it's leaders
no matter what you and I say.

in God's peace

dallas

[appletree]

Appletree...

Can we expect to see an exciting 3ABN float at the Old King Coal Festival in Thompsonville this fall?

Will 3ABN have a booth there?

It is untrue, useless comments like this that make you guilty of perpetuating a false image of 3abn.

[awesumtenor]

It is untrue, useless comments like this that make you guilty of perpetuating a false image of 3abn.

I know it's been a while since you pondered an english grammar text... but this was a *question*... not a *comment*. If the answer is 'no' then all you had to say is "no"... and seeing that you have taken it upon yourself to represent 3ABN here, if any is perpetuating a false image, it is you... when you claim they are so Christian and then step to people as you have in this thread. If your witness exemplifies the Christianity manifest there, then you have obviously missed the fact that you, collectively, are poor and wretched and blind and naked... even as you insist and persist in saying that you are rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing.

In His service,
Mr. J

[beartrap]

It is untrue, useless comments like this that make you guilty of perpetuating a false image of 3abn.

Comments?

This post has been edited by beartrap: Oct 1 2007, 03:30 PM