Jim Gilley Takes Over As President Options

[Brick Step]

I don't think the context of the reports warrants the applications that you appear to be making ... given its placement here in the 3abn forum and your previous comments about individuals and ministries not daring "to think, move or breathe before a ministry or Conference committee has granted them permission." The initial "report" is of the formation of the GC Commission to study organizational structure.... and the recent recommendations of that Commissions are a follow up on that. The report has to do with what kinds of differences in organizational structure... ie specifically differences from the standard levels of organization (Division, Union, Local Conferences, churches) is being recommended. And do note that these have been already in operation in some Divisions even before the Commission was founded.

I saw nothing there that would make any comment about the "movements of the Holy Spirit" any more than a standard statement.... that is, I saw nothing that would indicate they were supportive of the Pentecostal/Word of Faith uses of that phrase.... which we have been discussing here on the 3abn forum. If I missed something, please quote it exactly and tell which part of the report it was in.

This is doubtless a good topic for discussion, but IMO it should be moved to a more appropriate BSDA forum that this one.

I was not particularly looking for an in depth discussion on the GC report on structure, and if that is the way to go, then yes, the topic probably should be taken up in a different BSDA forum.

I'm not saying you were meaning to imply this, WB, but please, nobody interpret my position on Shelley Quinn as one of support for the Pentecostal/Word of Faith use of Scripture. Could I make it plain I assuredly was not in the least implying this GC report was “supportive of the Pentecostal/Word of Faith uses of that phrase [“that phrase" being my words “movements of the Holy Spirit”].” I know this has been the major topic of discussion here, but the name of this BSDA thread being “Jim Gilley Takes Over As President" (the issue of leadership at 3ABN) I thought there were other matters also of relevance.

Yes, I have made statements about individuals and ministries not daring “to think, move or breathe before a ministry or Conference committee has granted them permission.” I have also made comments stating my respect for church leadership where I am. Some of the finest people I know are or have been leaders in the SDA Church. (I also--of course--have great respect for the Christian witness of persons of other faiths.)

When I saw the GC report on church structure, I mentioned it (one reason) because I wanted to be fair to their position, which I had on the BSDA forums represented in effect as being hierarchical. It was the report by Elizabeth Lechleitner on http://www.PresentTruth.com which I read first. A couple of statements caught my attention.

“Church structure lacks merit unless it acts as an ‘instrument of mission,’ members of the Seventh-day Adventist church’s commission on Ministries, Services and Structures told the church’s executive committee October 15. …

“Lowell C. Cooper, a vice president of the world church and commission vice-chairman, said while church structure may appear hierarchical, such an assessment would be an ‘unfair caricature’ because the church’s levels of administration exist to collaborate and cooperate with one another, not exert command or control, he said.”

Words can obviously mean different things to different people, but in my mind that opening statement and later paragraph just quoted were recognizing that church structure lacks merit unless it understands that its role is to support rather than control members in the work of taking the gospel to the world. Supporting members in that holy endeavour implies recognizing and respecting the fact that the guiding voice of Providence, the Holy Spirit and God’s Word is a greater authority in the personal life of the believer, than their own authority as church leaders. It is surely imperative that a church looking for the outpouring of the latter rain gives focused attention to this issue. Sad if this line of thought was not a major underlying consideration (even if largely unspoken) of this GC report on church structure modifications.

Yes, I have spoken of persons needing to be free to follow Christ the Lamb-Shepherd, wherever He leads, as literal Israel once followed the Ark of the Covenant symbol. God’s endtime people are described as those who “follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” (Rev 14:4). This is the statement I had in mind when I spoke of the “movements of the Holy Spirit.” It is the Holy Spirit who tells us specifically how to follow the Lamb each moment of every day.

Either there is “one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus,” or there is not. Either we as individuals are able to discern where God is leading, and follow, or we are not. So James White is absolutely correct when he says a “Conference Committee” (in its own eyes, in the eyes of church members, or others looking on) is not of necessity to be equated with the voice of God, and if “church” for a minister (or other member) just means doing what a “Conference Committee” says, - or pastor or Danny Shelton or president or university professor says, - then that minister or other member can be sure their faith will wither, ultimately their living connection with Christ will die, churches will die, ministries will die, and conditions become ripe for the emergence of dictators assuming authority which belongs alone to God. Abuses are sure to follow.

Belief in Pentecostal/Rhema/Word of Faith error would be just one of many other means of violating this wider principle. Satan has many methods of misapplying Scripture in order to deceive. Since the Garden of Eden when the devil misquoted God’s words in order to deceive Eve, Satan has perfected the art of misapplying and misinterpreting the Bible, developing methods to deceive in every possible circumstance, at every level of intelligence and education, to meet every culture, every age group, every type of person, church and ministry. It is so easy to recognize a misuse of Scripture in one context, and fall for a dangerous misuse of Scripture in another context. There’s plenty enough not only to keep everyone at 3ABN humble and alert, but all of us, whoever and wherever we are.

[sister]

According to one of the Danny supporters, a new office is being built for Jim Gilley at 3ABN. WHY? Since it is obvious that Danny is not vacating his office, why doesn't Gilley just move into Linda's previous office at 3ABN? If 3ABN is so hard up for cash, why spend money on a new office for Gilley. It would be cheaper and would show his willingness to tighten up the purse strings by making due with what is availible rather than adding to the current financial problems at this time. Something to chew on...

[LaurenceD]

According to one of the Danny supporters, a new office is being built for Jim Gilley at 3ABN. WHY? Since it is obvious that Danny is not vacating his office, why doesn't Gilley just move into Linda's previous office at 3ABN? If 3ABN is so hard up for cash, why spend money on a new office for Gilley. It would be cheaper and would show his willingness to tighten up the purse strings by making due with what is availible rather than adding to the current financial problems at this time. Something to chew on...

I'd suggest putting them in the same office so that both know everything the other is doing. Maybe same house too.

[watchbird]

According to one of the Danny supporters, a new office is being built for Jim Gilley at 3ABN. WHY? Since it is obvious that Danny is not vacating his office, why doesn't Gilley just move into Linda's previous office at 3ABN? If 3ABN is so hard up for cash, why spend money on a new office for Gilley. It would be cheaper and would show his willingness to tighten up the purse strings by making due with what is availible rather than adding to the current financial problems at this time. Something to chew on...

Not to worry about the bottomless purse.. or its "strings" .... 3abn now has three new boardmembers.... who, we have been told, are plenty capable of supporting 3abn all by themselves for some time to come.

I'd suggest putting them in the same office so that both know everything the other is doing. Maybe same house too.

Well now... such good advice.... but just a wee bit late.... not only have they started construction on Gilley's new office, but also on Danny's new house. I understand that Gilley bought Danny's old one. Surely you know that a new broom deserves a new office.... and a new wife ..... well... maybe I hadn't ought to go there.... ...... or did I do that already.... Oh well... I'm sure someone will come now and give us all of the details and the rationale and the location of Danny's new house, and how he got the land that it is on... and .... and... and....

................. ...............

[Ian]

According to one of the Danny supporters, a new office is being built for Jim Gilley at 3ABN. WHY? Since it is obvious that Danny is not vacating his office, why doesn't Gilley just move into Linda's previous office at 3ABN?

Because it isn't empty, and the programming director needs a office too, and none of those offices are big enough to share, nor is it practical with all their responsibilties and such.

If 3ABN is so hard up for cash, why spend money on a new office for Gilley. It would be cheaper and would show his willingness to tighten up the purse strings by making due with what is availible rather than adding to the current financial problems at this time.

As you know it's all basically like the trump tower in the middle of Michael jackson's neverland, but better and much more decadent. Everyone is entitled to a full suite of rooms and their own bath, kitchen, Jacuzzi and work out room, but no one wants to give up one of their rooms for Gilley so since nothing was available, he has volunteered to save money by just having a nice but practical and basic office, with no extras, which they are building right beside Linda's old office. It was either that or put him in the Barn...

oops sorry- forget that. I forgot I underwent all that brainwashing after I entered the compound and those big steel doors slammed shut, and all the barbed wire and minefields were behind me.

It's all very practical and outside is a pond, and country, and no fences in site. Oh yeah and Danny looked just like Moses and was carrying a staff, and Shelley Quinn was dressed like Ellen White, and carried a 50 pound bible around over her head everywhere she went...

No wait.. that's not right...

This post has been edited by Ian: Oct 18 2007, 12:55 PM

[Ian]

I'd suggest putting them in the same office so that both know everything the other is doing. Maybe same house too.

There's not room in Danny's castle for Gilley, and his wife. . All the bedrooms are full of collections of guitars, and all the safes holding Danny's royalties, oh yeah one has a whole paddock in it full of horses which danny donates to make money.

[LaurenceD]

That's just eerie, Ian. Gotta find something a little further removed from reality for it to be funny.

[beartrap]

Oh yeah and Danny looked just like Moses and was carrying a staff, and Shelley Quinn was dressed like Ellen White, and carried a 50 pound bible around over her head everywhere she went...

Now we know you have been there. The one thing you missed is the Dr. Kellogg look-alike who prances around with a medical bag full of charcoal and garlic enemas to apply to all unsuspecting souls who might innocently turn their backside.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Oct 18 2007, 03:36 PM

[Panama_Pete]

There's not room in Danny's castle for Gilley, and his wife. . All the bedrooms are full of collections of guitars, and all the safes holding Danny's royalties, oh yeah one has a whole paddock in it full of horses which danny donates to make money.

Hey Ian,

Is there a Martin 0028C guitar in any of those castle bedrooms you mentioned? Some unknown person with DLS3@.... for their email address wanted to know about a Martin guitar some time back.

"I have a 1966 Martin classical 1 owner in excellent condition. 0028c. seriel# 216721. What is it worth?"

http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Stores/...sages/113.shtml

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Oct 18 2007, 05:38 PM

[LaurenceD]

Is there a Martin 0028C guitar in any of those castle bedrooms you mentioned? Some unknown person with DLS3@.... for their email address wanted to know about a Martin guitar some time back.

"I have a 1966 Martin classical 1 owner in excellent condition. 0028c. seriel# 216721. What is it worth?"

http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Stores/...sages/113.shtml

I liked Joel's answer...

"you don't have a 1966 0028C, you have a 1968 0028C. They made it it 1968."

I know more than one person that now wishes they had their donated guitar back. What a scam. I also know one person that saved his dad's old Gibson AJ from donation. Whew!

[appletree]

: Oh well... I'm sure someone will come now and give us all of the details and the rationale and the location of Danny's new house, and how he got the land that it is on... and .... and... and....

................. ...............

Yes WB. Someone definitely always needs to come on with correct details and explain rationale. How else would the lurkers find out the truth of anything?
For instance...when you say "they" have started building Danny's house, who is "they"? Somehow that sounds like you are insinuating that 3abn is building it, or is it just me taking it that way? 3abn is not. Parts Danny will do himself and the rest will be contracted out just like any John Doe would do. This one will be a little smaller than the other one since a lot of space was Linda's idea anyway.
Yes, last I knew Jim G is buying Danny's present house so they will be neighbors. That's nice.
As far as the "office" subject...3abn has badly needed more administrative offices for some time. C.A. Murray resides in Linda's office and Danny will keep his office. Mollie needs a bigger space and her assistant will need somewhere to work and of course Jim has to have an office. This addition is long overdue. The offices have been cramped for too long. A successful ministry is always expanding...not just their satellite areas and viewing audiences but their buildings and office space. How else does one keep up with the growing demand?

[appletree]

According to one of the Danny supporters, a new office is being built for Jim Gilley at 3ABN. WHY? Since it is obvious that Danny is not vacating his office, why doesn't Gilley just move into Linda's previous office at 3ABN? If 3ABN is so hard up for cash, why spend money on a new office for Gilley. It would be cheaper and would show his willingness to tighten up the purse strings by making due with what is availible rather than adding to the current financial problems at this time. Something to chew on...

I'm shocked sister. You always claim to know so much...surely you knew that CA Murray has been in Linda's office for some time and before that Tommy. A production manager has to have an office and that was the only one available. The ministry is growing by leaps and bounds and expanding is just part of it..as you well know.

[appletree]

There's not room in Danny's castle for Gilley, and his wife. . All the bedrooms are full of collections of guitars, and all the safes holding Danny's royalties, oh yeah one has a whole paddock in it full of horses which danny donates to make money.

I love it Ian. You're sounding just like you fit right in here.

[lurker]

Lawrence This must be one of the 17 other guitars in addition to the $9000 Martin guitar Danny says he has.
http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-furniture.htm
There is a motion to compell October 22 so I guess we will see what that is all about.
http://tinyurl.com/tsd7n

[sister]

Yes WB. Someone definitely always needs to come on with correct details and explain rationale. How else would the lurkers find out the truth of anything?
For instance...when you say "they" have started building Danny's house, who is "they"? Somehow that sounds like you are insinuating that 3abn is building it, or is it just me taking it that way? 3abn is not. Parts Danny will do himself and the rest will be contracted out just like any John Doe would do. This one will be a little smaller than the other one since a lot of space was Linda's idea anyway.
Yes, last I knew Jim G is buying Danny's present house so they will be neighbors. That's nice.
As far as the "office" subject...3abn has badly needed more administrative offices for some time. C.A. Murray resides in Linda's office and Danny will keep his office. Mollie needs a bigger space and her assistant will need somewhere to work and of course Jim has to have an office. This addition is long overdue. The offices have been cramped for too long. A successful ministry is always expanding...not just their satellite areas and viewing audiences but their buildings and office space. How else does one keep up with the growing demand?

Appletree, first you are telling us how grave Danny's heart problem is and now you are telling us that he will be working construction on his own new house? Interesting...