Hospitalization Of Danny Shelton, Forwarded Announcement from Club Adventist Options

[SoulEspresso]

Yeah, the food thing isn't that big a deal IMO. We don't typically keep dairy products in our house, yet I had the most awesome orange chicken when we ate out for Mrs. Espresso's b-day last week. IOW I aspire to veganism but I can't help it when I'm at the Cheesecake Factory! If Danny can avoid desserts he's one up on me there.

Of course, Romans 14:17 would apply.

[runner4him]

I have a question about Danny's diet...Not too many years ago he was on a live show talking how he still was eating fish. He was on within the last couple of years that his food weakness was some kind of cheese curls or something like that...so how strict is he on his diet???? He is not adhereing to the health message that 3ABN promotes if he is eating these things.

My thoughts exactly. While I do not want to say anyone here is making false statements about the DS's exercise and "strict" diet, I find it all very hard to believe. In all my medical experience I have never seen a person have that kind of heart disease/blockage while working out with cardio exercise and eating a strict fat, dairy, cheese, meat, snack, sugar, dessert - FREE diet. I have never heard of it....maybe someone should study the possibilities and do some research. Everything I read is to the contrary whether you are reading medical journals, Sr. White, or .........

Stress will kill but in a different way. It will raise the blood pressure but block the arteries with a "strict" diet??....not so easy to believe that one!

This post has been edited by runner4him: Oct 15 2007, 02:57 PM

[appletree]

The above comment is interesting. The information that it provides us includes:

1) You are not a physician. If you had stated that Danny's Father has an infarct as large as a half-dollar, that might be possible? But, a hole that size? No way. Danny's Father would have immediately died if the hole was in the outer wall. He would have bled to death into the chest cavity.

2) Yes, I am aware of a developmental condition in which a hole exists between two chambers of the heart. Such a hole, in living people is minute. Such a hole the size of a half-doller would have caused immediate death. NOTE: I do understand life support systems and what could have been acomplislhed by that method.

3) You speak as a layperson, who really has a limited understanding of cardiology. So, if you are wrong about the half-dollar sized hole, can we reasonably expect you to be right about your other statements.

NOTE: I am not challenging the statements that have been made in regard to Danny's health. I am willing to accept them as stated. Yes, I have picked up on minor misstatements that are typically made by people who are not physicians. I have not worried about those. My focus here is not to cast any doubt on Danny's health. It is simply to point out that this person who claims to have the facts, and to speak authoratively has clearly made a major misstatement that demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of cardiology.

You keep referring to "lay people" or people that don't have an understanding of cardiology. So, I am assuming then that you are a physician and a cardiac doc at that?

Let me remind you of something where Mr. Shelton is concerned. He has been deceased for 30+ years and it was 25 years before that when he experienced his first heart attack. We are then looking at 55+ years ago. There were no heart caths, stents, scans or MRI's at that time. Most was guess work on the part of the physician. The physician of the time said his heart was severely damaged and there was a hole in it the size of a half dollar. Now how did the man come to that conclusion? I have no idea. But I am repeating what he told the Shelton's mother, so, let's not kill the messenger.

Concerning what I have related on Danny's health problems, I am repeating what the doctors have said without my own interpretation added. You might be wise to do the same unless you are claiming knowledge that the cardio guys do not have.

[appletree]

My thoughts exactly. While I do not want to say anyone here is making false statements about the DS's exercise and "strict" diet, I find it all very hard to believe. In all my medical experience I have never seen a person have that kind of heart disease/blockage while working out with cardio exercise and eating a strict fat, dairy, cheese, meat, snack, sugar, dessert - FREE diet. I have never heard of it....maybe someone should study the possibilities and do some research. Everything I read is to the contrary whether you are reading medical journals, Sr. White, or .........

Stress will kill but in a different way. It will raise the blood pressure but block the arteries with a "strict" diet??....not so easy to believe that one!

Yes, you are right. He has all these heart problems because every once in awhile he would eat some fish. His other killer was sometimes when traveling he would eat one of those mini bags of cheetos. You know, the ones like you put in your kid's lunch. Definitely those 2 things have led to his downfall. lol

Accept it. It is hereditary. Even beartrap has backed me up on Danny's diet being more than strict. I have watched him in a hundred social situations where there is food. He is one of these irrating people that asks what is in everything. If it's sugar, he doesn't touch it. If there's dairy, he put's it down. When he isn't asking he is reading the labels which, personally, I find offensive to do at people's homes when they have invited you for a meal. His only snack at home is popcorn with no butter and a small amound of sea salt and fresh fruit.

As far as stress killing in a different way....2 doctors have told me that stress will raise your cholestrol even when on a strict diet and by doing so, obviously, the cholestrol will block the arteries and can cause a heart attack just the same as a poor diet.

Like the others here, speculate all you want but these are the facts.

[appletree]

It's really not surprising that Danny and Tommy have heart issues when you consider the link between stress/guilt and heart disease. Tragic, but not surprising.

There is also a proven link between stress/guilt and cancer. Your mother died from cancer so should I blanket her with your ridiculous conclusion?

Of course not. You need to stop trying to force people into the molds and categories that you make for them and want to see them in. If you end up with heart disease or cancer should we then assume you are riddled with guilt and the stress it causes? How about those in your family? Should we convict them with the same accusations if they become sick?

By all accounts, Mr. Shelton Sr. was a great individual. Loved and respected by all. Yet, he developed severe heart disease that eventually killed him. Should I go on and name a hundred others that I can think of off the top of my head? How about you? Bet you can think of that many yourself that in no way, deserved or "earned" their health problems.

You are letting your personal feelings get in the way of good judgement. You need to stop trying to diagnose why people are sick since, sometimes, what goes around, comes around.

[Uncle Sam]

[quote name='appletree' date='Oct 15 2007, 04:51 PM' post='219919']
Yes, you are right. He has all these heart problems because every once in awhile he would eat some fish. His other killer was sometimes when traveling he would eat one of those mini bags of cheetos. You know, the ones like you put in your kid's lunch. Definitely those 2 things have led to his downfall. lol

I am not saying this isn't hereditary...what I am saying is out of Danny's own mouth he has spoken of his diet on 3ABN. I realize it has been many years but he talks about not wanting to eat the food Linda prepared for him, I believe when they were dating, so he would sneak off to McDonalds....Is that part of the healthy lifestyle he has ALWAYS adhered to?

I am not even saying that is what caused his problems. Just like if something like breast cancer runs in your family your chances increase of getting the cancer. I think it is wonderful if Danny watches what he eats and takes care of himself etc. All I was saying is that according to Danny he has not always been on a strict diet. If he has made changes through the years I am sure that has helped him to stay healthy up until now.

[beartrap]

My thoughts exactly. While I do not want to say anyone here is making false statements about the DS's exercise and "strict" diet, I find it all very hard to believe. In all my medical experience I have never seen a person have that kind of heart disease/blockage while working out with cardio exercise and eating a strict fat, dairy, cheese, meat, snack, sugar, dessert - FREE diet. I have never heard of it....maybe someone should study the possibilities and do some research. Everything I read is to the contrary whether you are reading medical journals, Sr. White, or .........

Stress will kill but in a different way. It will raise the blood pressure but block the arteries with a "strict" diet??....not so easy to believe that one!

I am not a physician or healthcare professional, but I have known Danny quite well on a rather close personal level for many years, and I can tell you my observation of his diet is that it is very healthy. Yes, he eats some fish every now and then, and I have known him to eat cheetos on very rare ocassions, but overall he very strictly avoids sugar, fat, dairy, meat, and refined foods. I also know that he gets lots of excercise. When he has broken bones playing basketball, I have advised that he take up something like shuffleboard, but he just plays all the harder. Yes, there was a time when he did not eat at all healthy, but that was a number of years ago.

Having seen so much cardio-vascular disease running in the family, and knowing that your own body can produce an overload of cholesterol, and knowing that stress can be a factor in that over-production, I am not surprised that Danny has CV problems. I believe that his careful health habits have actually kept at bay problems that would likely have struck much earlier had he not taken such strict care. There are people who live very healthy and die young from weaknesses that are genetically passed down to them. There are also people who eat, drink, and smoke every consumable that has acquired a shady reputation, don't get any regular excercise, and they still live to a very old age.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Oct 15 2007, 06:50 PM

[Seraphim7]

Is it just me or have you really confused everyone on your last several posts concerning this subject?
...

Um, NO... everyone is not confused. Thee fact is your claims and the methods you have used to make said claims are questionable based on YOUR commentary throughout the 3abn episodes. That is what folks here have had a opportunity to witness for themselves.

That said, why don't you give it a rest and stop providing "confidential" medical information about somebody else, if that is what it is. That is, unless you have written permission from DS to provide said information to the world, which you are welcome to share here as well.

Be Blessed

[PrincessDrRe]

Well!

[LaurenceD]

The way stress works in the body is the same with everyone regardless of diet. All fat (cholesterol is a fat steroid found only in animal products--but is also synthesized in the human body regardless of your diet), whether stored and released in the body, or assimilated directly into the blood stream after digestion before storage takes place, needs to be used up, burned, or expended through exercise. During stress, stored energy is released in the body and is intended by nature to be promptly expended.

On the highway, during stressful driving situations, when this stored energy is realeased to be burned through exercise, all one can really do is honk the horn and swear in exasperation. Same with stress experienced watching a movie, or TV, or arguing in a unrelaxed uneducational way with someone on the internet. The stress level increases, mobilization of energy is communicated through the adrenal gands, and all you end up with is a bunch of released stored energy that is floating around in the blood stream to be used and expended.

It is not used. It is not burned or expended. So, as one pathologist put it, the body tries to do something unnatural with this unique released fat: it tries to restore it but it won't store in its original state like it was before, so it builds up on the wall of the arteries and forms deposits. These deposits act as a shadow to the artery wall and inhibits it's health, nutritional access, and its flexibility. And so the artery hardens under this shadow of deposits and buildups. And the arteries narrow.

This isn't by far the entire picture of arterial sclerosis, just one of the many factors and causes. If you are a prime candidate for heart disease, and don't understand the cause-effect relationship completely, avoid stressful situations of all kinds that can't be followed up immediately with the right kind of exercise. There are many varieties and different qualities of exercise...some far better than others.

[PeacefulBe]

I am not a physician or healthcare professional, but I have known Danny quite well on a rather close personal level for many years, and I can tell you my observation of his diet is that it is very healthy. Yes, he eats some fish every now and then, and I have known him to eat cheetos on very rare ocassions, but overall he very strictly avoids sugar, fat, dairy, meat, and refined foods. I also know that he gets lots of excercise. When he has broken bones playing basketball, I have advised that he take up something like shuffleboard, but he just plays all the harder. Yes, there was a time when he did not eat at all healthy, but that was a number of years ago.

Having seen so much cardio-vascular disease running in the family, and knowing that your own body can produce an overload of cholesterol, and knowing that stress can be a factor in that over-production, I am not surprised that Danny has CV problems. I believe that his careful health habits have actually kept at bay problems that would likely have struck much earlier had he not taken such strict care. There are people who live very healthy and die young from weaknesses that are genetically passed down to them. There are also people who eat, drink, and smoke every consumable that has acquired a shady reputation, don't get any regular excercise, and they still live to a very old age.

Thank you beartrap. This should put to rest speculation of whether or not Danny's heart problems are caused by unhealthy dietary choices in recent years, and also it should reinforce the indications that there is a strong genetic component to heart disease in the Shelton family.

[PeacefulBe]

Part of the draw of forum discussions is the wealth of varied opinions, the different styles used to present information, the bits of contention sprinkled in here and there to spice things up, and, every now and then, information that builds understanding about the particular topic.

It's commendable that the rules and regulations for use of this forum are so clear and that there are such fine admins here to make certain that the rules are followed. It's also commendable that this particular thread has been discussed without straying too far from the topic and that much interesting information has been brought forward. LaurenceD, beartrap, appletree, Observer, Noahswife, Runner4Him and others have brought in lots of lifestyle and medical information that we can sort through, weigh and see how it meshes together.

Until this thread slips into disuse I think it would be unfortunate to only see one side of things, so it will be great for everyone interested in commenting to continue to do so, as long as it is within Calvin's stated guidelines of course. JMO.

[Observer]

Let me remind you of something where Mr. Shelton is concerned. He has been deceased for 30+ years and it was 25 years before that when he experienced his first heart attack. We are then looking at 55+ years ago.

Deceased: No longer living. Dead.



So, Danny has been dead for more than 30 years.

Could be. In ancient military myth there is a story of a general who died. The powers that be did not want the troops to know. So, they tied him to his horse in an upright manner, and led the horse into battle.


With the benefist of modern computrs, it would be possible to present, on television, a dead person doing claimed live interviews. In fact, that deceased person could even be made to age to make it look more realistic.

By the way, if he had his first heart attack over 55 years ago, how old is he now, or rather, how old is the deceased person supposed to be now?

Sorry Appletree, your comments are becomming less and less credible.

NOTE: It has been brought to my attention that Appletree referenced Danny's Father, and not Danny. I stand corrected on that point.

This post has been edited by Observer: Oct 16 2007, 06:55 AM

[Observer]

You keep referring to "lay people" or people that don't have an understanding of cardiology. So, I am assuming then that you are a physician and a cardiac doc at that?

Let me remind you of something where Mr. Shelton is concerned. He has been deceased for 30+ years and it was 25 years before that when he experienced his first heart attack. We are then looking at 55+ years ago. There were no heart caths, stents, scans or MRI's at that time. Most was guess work on the part of the physician. The physician of the time said his heart was severely damaged and there was a hole in it the size of a half dollar. Now how did the man come to that conclusion? I have no idea. But I am repeating what he told the Shelton's mother, so, let's not kill the messenger.

Concerning what I have related on Danny's health problems, I am repeating what the doctors have said without my own interpretation added. You might be wise to do the same unless you are claiming knowledge that the cardio guys do not have.

One of the major questions that you raise is in regard to yor claim that Danny had his first heart attack over 55 years ago. How old is he now? What was the age when he first had a heart attack. Let us say that Danny is now 65 years old. Folks, it would be highly unusual for a 10 year-old to have a heart attack. Heart attacks in 30 year olds are occuring today, but 55 years ago--I will suggest were quit uncommon. Anyway, if Danny had his first heart attack at 30 years of age, and that was more than 55 years ago, that would make him more than 85 years old. It would mean that when Linda married him he was more than twice her age, and eligible for Social Security.

You comments in regard to medical diagnosis reflect an ignorance of medical history:

EKG (ECG): First studied by Alexander Muirhead in 1872. It was further developed by Willen Einthonen who recieved the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1924. EKG were available in the 55 + year time frame that you cite.

Heart Catheterization: First used by Stepehn Hales on a h orse in 1711. Developed in the 1800s by Claude Bernard. Werner Forssmann further developed it in the 1930s for which he recieved the Nobel Prize for Medicine. These were well available during the 55+ year time frame that you cite.

Stents: First used in human patients in 1986.

CAT Scans: First used in human patients in 1972.

NOTE: It has been brought to my attention that Appletree referenced Danny's Father, and not Danny. I stand corrected on that point. My other points remain.

This post has been edited by Observer: Oct 16 2007, 06:58 AM

[justice4jesus]

There is also a proven link between stress/guilt and cancer. Your mother died from cancer so should I blanket her with your ridiculous conclusion?

Of course not. You need to stop trying to force people into the molds and categories that you make for them and want to see them in. If you end up with heart disease or cancer should we then assume you are riddled with guilt and the stress it causes? How about those in your family? Should we convict them with the same accusations if they become sick?

By all accounts, Mr. Shelton Sr. was a great individual. Loved and respected by all. Yet, he developed severe heart disease that eventually killed him. Should I go on and name a hundred others that I can think of off the top of my head? How about you? Bet you can think of that many yourself that in no way, deserved or "earned" their health problems.

You are letting your personal feelings get in the way of good judgement. You need to stop trying to diagnose why people are sick since, sometimes, what goes around, comes around.

Yet again, Appletree, you are either missing the point or tap dancing around it.

No one is saying that everyone who has heart problems is stressed out. The point is that being stressed out greatly increases one's risk of heart trouble. While it is true that there is a history of heart trouble in the Shelton family, it is also entirely possible that the stress of the current situations could have brought Danny's and Tommy's heart trouble to the fore much earlier than it would have developed otherwise. No one is making any personal judgments here....just stating facts. Yes, facts!

Further, it is extremely poor taste to drag one's late mother into such a discussion in the manner that you did. You state that it is not practical to include her in the conclusion of stress and guilt, but you must have been thinking toward that end to even mention her in the first place. The truth is that the woman of whom you speak was an upstanding Christian woman who, undoubtedly, is singing with the angels at this very moment. If I were you, I'd be rethinking my approach to subjects like this. That was totally uncalled for!