Reaping The Whirl Wind, IRS Criminal Investigation of 3ABN Options

[Richard Sherwin]

I think it needs to be put in the How to Act like a Pharisee Forum

Shouldn't all of this discussion on Sabbath keeping and other theological issues be moved to the Theology forum?

[calvin]

Maybe I will get around to moving it later today.

[Fran]

Merry Christmas to all!

[Panama_Pete]

Shouldn't all of this discussion on Sabbath keeping and other theological issues be moved to the Theology forum?

Well, Giddy Up Jingle Horse....

It's Christmas Day, and you folks are still on top of everything!

I throw in a few seemingly esoteric postings and look what happens!

In fact, I was just about to greatly expand on Observer's comment about the International Date Line - always a topic to add some Christmas cheer. Unfortunately, Christmas is already finished on the other side of that line, so I guess I'll wait till next year.



Merry Christmas to all,

And to all a good night.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Dec 25 2007, 01:53 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

Hey I want to hear more about the date line thing, if you or Observer has more to offer it sounds like a fascinating issue, and a bit of useless trivia to brighten up a otherwise ho hum Christmas day. WB you seem to know about such things within the church.

Well, Giddy Up Jingle Horse....

It's Christmas Day, and you folks are still on top of everything!

I throw in a few seemingly esoteric postings and look what happens!

In fact, I was just about to greatly expand on Observer's comment about the International Date Line - always a topic to add some Christmas cheer. Unfortunately, Christmas is already finished on the other side of that line, so I guess I'll wait till next year.



Merry Christmas to all,

And to all a good night.

[Green Cochoa]

Yes, Christmas is already finished on this side of the line. But, I doubt if even Watchbird will have an answer to this dateline question:

Why are the names of the days of the week in Chinese, quite possibly the oldest language still in use on earth today, as follows:

Monday = "Hsin chi ee" = (week day) One
Tuesday = "Hsin chi er" = (week day) Two
Wednesday = "Hsin chi san" = (week day) Three
Thursday = "Hsin chi hsi" = (week day) Four
Friday = "Hsin chi u" = (week day) Five
Saturday = "Hsin chi liow" = (week day) Six

And Sunday is not numbered. So what's the seventh-day? When I first came here, and began learning the days of the week, I honestly thought perhaps we should be keeping Sunday over here. After all, it simply is a matter of which way the explorers travelled to get here, right? Or would that be wrong, considering the Great Division of the earth into continents shortly after the flood?

So....I got questions....who's got answers?

[Observer]

Hey I want to hear more about the date line thing, if you or Observer has more to offer it sounds like a fascinating issue, and a bit of useless trivia to brighten up a otherwise ho hum Christmas day. WB you seem to know about such things within the church.

Briefly:

Look at a map, and follow the International Date Line (IDL) going from the North Pole to the South Pole. You will see that it generally goes in a strailght line. On one side of the IDL the day is called Saturday and on the other side it is called Sunday.

Now notice as you follow the IDL when it reaaches a group of islands in the Pacific, it does not continue in a straight line. It off in another direction, then continues south for a ways and follows that with a return to the same longitude it held in its origonal direction.

The result of the dog-leg is that in that area the day which otherwise would have been called Saturday is now called Sunday.

Here is waht happened:

Previously the IDL continued in a straight line going north to south. Business interests in that area of the islands objected and asked that the IDL be changed. It was changed in a manner that resulted in the day previously called Saturday now named Sunday. The Christiana community generally moved their worship services to this new Sunday. The SDAs continued to worship on the day previously named Saturday and now named Sunday. So, everybody now worships on the same day in that area.

Yes, there is a mimority group who criticizes this and says that the SDAs should have moved to the day previously named Friday and now named Saturday in order to set a proper example.

You just can not please everyone!

[watchbird]

Yes, Christmas is already finished on this side of the line. But, I doubt if even Watchbird will have an answer to this dateline question:

Why are the names of the days of the week in Chinese, quite possibly the oldest language still in use on earth today, as follows:

Monday = "Hsin chi ee" = (week day) One
Tuesday = "Hsin chi er" = (week day) Two
Wednesday = "Hsin chi san" = (week day) Three
Thursday = "Hsin chi hsi" = (week day) Four
Friday = "Hsin chi u" = (week day) Five
Saturday = "Hsin chi liow" = (week day) Six

And Sunday is not numbered. So what's the seventh-day? When I first came here, and began learning the days of the week, I honestly thought perhaps we should be keeping Sunday over here. After all, it simply is a matter of which way the explorers travelled to get here, right? Or would that be wrong, considering the Great Division of the earth into continents shortly after the flood?

So....I got questions....who's got answers?

Hmmmph! Who needs "answers" when we have THE answer.... which is forty-two....

But as for questions.... there are lots of them.... examples.... Why is it that China has "always had" the dragon as a sort of "national symbol"... even before there was a nation of China as we know nations today? How did it happen that the Sun and Moon were worshiped as gods even before Genesis 1 was written... thus causing the author of Genesis to call them only the greater light and the lesser light in order to avoid labeling them as "gods"? Perhaps the apparent antiquity of the Chinese language has no relationship to the names of the days as scripture preserved them from at least the time of the Exodus... the earliest date claimed for the writing of Genesis and the confirmation of what day of the week was the seventh day... at least in Palestine and surrounding areas?

Sorry, I fail to see any cogent relationship between the direction one traveled to get to China and the numbering of the days of the week. Nor do I consider that the breakup of the "continents" occurred at the time of the "flood".

[watchbird]

Briefly:

Look at a map, and follow the International Date Line (IDL) going from the North Pole to the South Pole. You will see that it generally goes in a strailght line. On one side of the IDL the day is called Saturday and on the other side it is called Sunday.

Now notice as you follow the IDL when it reaaches a group of islands in the Pacific, it does not continue in a straight line. It off in another direction, then continues south for a ways and follows that with a return to the same longitude it held in its origonal direction.

The result of the dog-leg is that in that area the day which otherwise would have been called Saturday is now called Sunday.

Here is waht happened:

Previously the IDL continued in a straight line going north to south. Business interests in that area of the islands objected and asked that the IDL be changed. It was changed in a manner that resulted in the day previously called Saturday now named Sunday. The Christiana community generally moved their worship services to this new Sunday. The SDAs continued to worship on the day previously named Saturday and now named Sunday. So, everybody now worships on the same day in that area.

Yes, there is a mimority group who criticizes this and says that the SDAs should have moved to the day previously named Friday and now named Saturday in order to set a proper example.

You just can not please everyone!

As I understand it, Observer, you have given a very succinct overview of the philosophical and technical background as to what has happened....

It's been awhile since I had all this explained to me in some detail... but from what I recall, it seems as though most of the controversy centers around two islands who are very close together and thus form one natural social... and business.... grouping... more so than on some other islands which are more widely separated. Separating these so they no longer are on the same side of the IDL seems to come as close as one can get to equally DISpleasing everyone as one can imagine.

But we need someone from the island area to actually describe the problems that have been caused.....

[Clay]

Shouldn't all of this discussion on Sabbath keeping and other theological issues be moved to the Theology forum?

well maybe since some are reluctant to venture into other areas of bsda, they can experience some of the flavor here in this section..... sort of a "if they don't want to go to the mountain, we bring the mountain to them....."

[watchbird]

well maybe since some are reluctant to venture into other areas of bsda, they can experience some of the flavor here in this section..... sort of a "if they don't want to go to the mountain, we bring the mountain to them....."

I see your point.... but mine is that if you do that, then the purpose for even having a 3abn forum has been subverted... and their goal of diverting attention from the issues having to do with 3abn has been facilitated.....


oh well.... carry on....

...... ............

[Clay]

I see your point.... but mine is that if you do that, then the purpose for even having a 3abn forum has been subverted... and their goal of diverting attention from the issues having to do with 3abn has been facilitated.....
oh well.... carry on....

...... ............

I don't think this slight detour on one thread is going to subvert the purpose of having a 3abn sub-forum..... its been slow here for a while as there is little new that can be shared regarding 3abn issues so one wandering thread is not going to cause major disruption..... IMO of course....

[Green Cochoa]

Hmmmph! Who needs "answers" when we have THE answer.... which is forty-two....

But as for questions.... there are lots of them.... examples.... Why is it that China has "always had" the dragon as a sort of "national symbol"... even before there was a nation of China as we know nations today? How did it happen that the Sun and Moon were worshiped as gods even before Genesis 1 was written... thus causing the author of Genesis to call them only the greater light and the lesser light in order to avoid labeling them as "gods"? Perhaps the apparent antiquity of the Chinese language has no relationship to the names of the days as scripture preserved them from at least the time of the Exodus... the earliest date claimed for the writing of Genesis and the confirmation of what day of the week was the seventh day... at least in Palestine and surrounding areas?

Sorry, I fail to see any cogent relationship between the direction one traveled to get to China and the numbering of the days of the week. Nor do I consider that the breakup of the "continents" occurred at the time of the "flood".

Watchbird, I don't understand that Moses referred to the "greater light" and "lesser light" in order to avoid anything. To the contrary, it was to promote something rather significant....but that's another study, fit for another thread. The simple point I would make on this is that if Moses were being politically correct to refer to the solar bodies by other than their "god names" of "sun" and "moon" in Genesis chapter one, why is it that Moses used the words dozens of times later on? In fact, it would seem counter productive to do it this way, because the best way to "demote" the status of the sun and moon would be to clearly inform the public as to Whom it was that created them--that would put them in their place!

As for the continental breakup around the time of the flood, that's Biblical. It happened close to 100 years after the flood, according to Moses.

• By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. (Genesis 10:5, KJV)
• And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. (Genesis 10:25, KJV)
• These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood. (Genesis 10:32, KJV)
• (Genesis 11:10-16 gives the genealogical record that tells us that Peleg was born about 100 years after the flood. Feel free to compute it yourself.)

As for which way folks travelled around, sure it makes a difference. If I were Columbus sailing the seven seas, what would I do when I had circumnavigated the globe and found myself to be a day different from everyone else? Depending on whether I had gone east or west, I would be either one day ahead or behind.

Blessings,

Greenie.

[PeacefulBe]

Perhaps someone who knows their way around Hebrew could look at the word "nations" and let us know if it is referring to people or geography.

Personally, I'm placing my wager on people.

[Green Cochoa]

Perhaps someone who knows their way around Hebrew could look at the word "nations" and let us know if it is referring to people or geography.

Personally, I'm placing my wager on people.

Ah...good thought. I'd place my wager on BOTH. The fact is that Babel certainly helped in the dispersion process. But you might like to note that each of the following words is used in reference to the division of the earth:

• isles
• lands
• earth
• nations

Seems like there's more to it there than just the word "nations" to me.

Blessings,

Greenie.