Reaping The Whirl Wind, IRS Criminal Investigation of 3ABN Options

[Pickle]

the Adventist church allows for divorce, and while the divorce might be questionable to the church, the United States allows for divorce so where is the problem?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that divorce of an Adventist couple for non-biblical reasons when legal separation is an option can be considered grounds for church discipline in the Adventist Church. So I don't think the church allows for this kind of divorce that occurred.

[Pickle]

I hope everyone doesn't forget the point that Danny holds a mortgage on Gilley's IL house, that the mortgage was supposed to mature in one month which has now passed, and that according to publicly available information that all the world can see elsewhere, either made public by law or by Gilley's choice, Gilley's TX house has not sold.

Due to its quality and the present economy, I'm sure Gilley would appreciate it very much if we all prayed that it sells quickly. I recall an instructor at Andrews who was having his house foreclosed on because it had not sold yet. It can be a real burden for pastors and church workers if they have to pay for two homes simultaneously.

And I'm sure he would appreciate it if we pray that he gets what he needs out of his house.

Just for example, there are a lot of folks out there who had 90% of their house mortgaged. If home prices drop by more than 10%, then if they sold their home for what it was worth, they'd still owe money. And thus, this is yet another challenge in today's economy, according to what someone in the mortgage industry told me.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 3 2007, 03:30 PM

[lurker]

is there concrete evidence that Mr. Shelton has done wrong? He divorced? the Adventist church allows for divorce, and while the divorce might be questionable to the church, the United States allows for divorce so where is the problem? Additionally it is not illegal to make money here in the U.S., so he is making money, where is the issue?

You say take back our country? From whom are we suppose to be taking it back from? Those who are in power are connected in ways that we probably would never even imagine, and they have lots of money... so how exactly do you suggest this "taking back" should be done?

Let me ask this, there is plenty of evidence of injustice here in the U.S., are we speaking out against it, seeking justice for those who have been done wrong? In fact I would venture to say what Mr. Shelton might have done pales in comparison to what large retail corporations perpetrate daily..... are we going after them? or do we just shop at their stores or use their products?

Well the difference for me is that these large retail corporations aren't the "face of the Adventist Church", my church, my face. They don't claim to be religious. They don't claim to represent me. I vote with my dollars by buying or not buying their products.

I no longer will give money to 3ABN until I think that it will go where it is intended. That isn't enough to cancel or reverse my vote (influence) favoring them. They can still get money that I give to the church. It can go to them indirectly through agencies the SDA church such as the Illinois Conference whose leaders decide what ministries to endorse. Must I remove my membership from the church as a protest or can I bring about change from within? Every time persons of influence within the church speak in support of 3ABN, people may assume that is the position of the church and that I as an Adventist support that position and approve of what is done at 3ABN.

Because injustice runs rampant does not excuse our encouraging it or looking the other way. If those who came before us had done that, we would be living in a far worse world than we do now. Not that it is that great but it could be worse. I do not feel that it is beating a dead horse to be persistant until we see the changes that are needed. I believe the changes will come. But not if we become discouraged and throw in the towel.

[Ian]

I would be interested to know the origins of Elder Gilley's outside income. The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy are too clear as to not be mistaken that pastors are not to engage in business enterprises (even those within the church!) as it would detract from their ordained mission to spread the Gospel. Additionally, it would be a condemnation of the church salary structure that the tithe was not enough to support him and his family. I would believe that this is not the current case in North America although in some foreign fields there may be a lack of adequate funding for pastoral workers.

I guess I just wouldn't want my 3ABN president up late at night tracking stock quotes or making calls throughout the day to make sure that his business interests are well-kept while there might be more pressing matters such as being (in part) in charge of proclaiming the Three Angels' Messages.

And yes, it is a nice house. It is worth nearly 8 times what mine is but you couldn't pay me a million to take it off his hands!

Personally I am having a hard time understanding what Jim Gilley's income or house has to do with the 3ABN issues and concerns here.

I don't really see why it's anybody's business.

But as people, (and I'm not just picking on you) seem to be finding fault with him, and assuming the worst, then maybe the facts are needed.

Before Jim Gilley started spreading the gospel and had a ministry he started a business which was quite successful and went international. (Those interested can look it up)Before that he also had a Major League baseball contract with the Giants, which not too many know. He speaks sometimes of when he played ball but doesn't really say where or for whom so many may assume he's talking about highschool.

So being that he was blessed in such a way, he lived on that money. And yes, he seems to have had a very nice house.
That isn't a crime nor a sin.

One of the posters here who claims to know and to have worked with him quite closely had the following to say:

"For your information Jim Gilley worked many years fulltime as the Texas Conference Evangelist and
for a time as the Senior Pastor of the Arlington SDA Church for $1, I repeat one dollar as his
salary for the entire year while he ran his own business to pay for his ministry, most of the money
that funded the supplies and equipment for that ministry came out of his own pocket."

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=217412

From what I know and have seen he's a good, down to earth, man who loves the Lord, and others demonstrated by his dedication and big heart.

He doesn't deserve all this ire and finger pointing.

Nor does anyone. We really need to learn to stick to facts and refuse to speculate or surmise evil of another.

This post has been edited by Ian: Dec 3 2007, 03:45 PM

[Dona]

You forget. Danny filed suit against me on April 5, 2007, making very specific allegations. By requiring me to defend myself, he has made some things my business that would not necessarily be otherwise.

You are quite right in saying it is your business. It is being handled legally in a court. To continually bring it before the forum members only serves to perpetuate personal opinions that might have adverse affects upon them in the long run. Misery nearly always enjoys company.

[Ian]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that divorce of an Adventist couple for non-biblical reasons when legal separation is an option can be considered grounds for church discipline in the Adventist Church. So I don't think the church allows for this kind of divorce that occurred.

You and yours continually complain that you haven't seen the evidence, and keep demanding it be made public so you can see it, while declaring illogically that it was made public and she was exposed and that's a grievous sin. Which is it? (anyone who has common sense should realize it was impossible for the divorce itself to be kept a secret...and "something" had to be said)

Since you haven't seen the evidence, and admit it, then you don't really know what kind of divorce it was, or if it was biblical. Nor may I add was it your business, nor did you have any call or reason to attack and vilify those who did see it, or find fault with them.

Those who were concerned and whos business it was, reviewed the evidence and and dealt with it as privately as possible, as they were supposed to do, which is biblical and according to SOP guidelines. They attempted to put her under censure, you all (again without seeing the evidence) attacked and vilified them and claimed that was unfair, and called them every other name in the book, and accused them of all kinds of evil.

Then you come on here talking about your duty to expose and rebuke sin, and accusing others of condoing and coverups and not getting rid of the sin iin their camp.

Next, you, personally, claim you haven't taken a stance where Linda is concerned...

I'm sorry, but it's all a bit hard for me to swallow.

This post has been edited by Ian: Dec 3 2007, 04:33 PM

[LaurenceD]

So being that he was blessed in such a way, he lived on that money. And yes, he seems to have had a very nice house.
That isn't a crime nor a sin.

Look at the life of many who claim to be Christians. The Lord has endowed them with capabilities, and power, and influence;
He has entrusted them with money, that they may be co-workers with Him in the great redemption.
All His gifts are to be used in blessing humanity, in relieving the suffering and the needy.
We are to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to care for the widow and the fatherless,
to minister to the distressed and downtrodden. God never meant that the widespread misery in the world should exist.
He never meant that one man should have an abundance of the luxuries of life, while the children of others should cry for bread.
The means over and above the actual necessities of life are entrusted to man to do good, to bless humanity.
The Lord says, "Sell that ye have, and give alms." Luke 12:33. Be "ready to distribute, willing to communicate." 1 Tim. 6:18.
"When thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind." Luke 14:13. "Loose the bands of wickedness,"
"undo the heavy burdens," "let the oppressed go free"

Alas, how many are appropriating to themselves the gifts of God! How many are adding house to house and land to land.
How many are spending their money for pleasure, for the gratification of appetite, for extravagant houses, furniture, and dress.
Their fellow beings are left to misery and crime, to disease and death. Multitudes are perishing without one pitying look, one word or deed of sympathy.

Men are guilty of robbery toward God. Their selfish use of means robs the Lord of the glory that should be reflected back to Him in the relief of suffering humanity and the salvation of souls.
They are embezzling His entrusted goods. COL 371

Hummmm....we may have more than one embezzler on our hands.

[PeacefulBe]

Danny Shelton did not abuse Mr. Clem.... and its my understanding that Mr. Clem has the right to press charges on anyone who he feels harmed him... if that has been done, then the justice system has to run its course. We are well aware that its one thing to go to court, and another to win in court... so what else is there?

If Danny Shelton knew of the abuse of Mr. Clem or others and/or helped to cover it up, this needs to be exposed. Every person who knew and remained quiet is a party to the abuse.

I realize that the 3abn discussion is becoming tiring and is traveling off into areas that would be best left alone instead of concentrating on what is of import to expose. I hope that Bob and others will take the hint and adjust the flow of information accordingly. And yet, Clay, I have to say I'm a bit surprised that someone of your intelligence and experience would comment as you have on the subject of the claimed victimization of young men. Perhaps this is how simple the solution appears from outside of the cycle of abuse. It is far less cut and dried for those of us who have been abused and understand how hard it is to break free of the intimidation and manipulation the sick system provides.

[princessdi]

Richard, I think there is more of a expectancy that they are "available" 24/7, even though they may not work those hors. most of the time. I mean you can't be on top of things for a death bed call at 3am, if you just got to bed at midnight from your "other" job, right? I am of the mind that we still need to pay for that expected availablity. God did witht he Levites, as they obviously had families, etc. However, He wanted them Avalable so He gave them the tithe of the other 11 tribes so they would not have to work. We need to do the same.

Now that being said, I am kind of going with Clay on this one, for the most part. I truly understand that at the base of ALL of this is the appropriate use of donor funds, or the lack thereof. Now where I agree with Clay is that GC obviously is aware and probably has investigated the info they they have read here, yes they have been here reading, and we all know it. They probably know it is worse that we even know. However, they have chosen to do absolutely nothing about it. At the very least, they should have called JL on the carpet for the inappropriate handling of the divorce situation and his more than obvious conflict of interest in it. GC should immediately cut all ties to 3ABN, but they haven't. So, they don't care. Apparaently the IRS is interested and doing their part, ok good. However, those expressing interested in justice being srved and Danny being taken to task by the IRS, be ready to be disappointed. That judement may or may not be all that you hope.

I also agree with Clay, because at this point it is jut true haterade for everyone to be wrroied aobut a house that Jim gilley had before his aassociation with 3ABN. It is also pretty silly to worry about Danny's house being built and how much it costs, as it has already been reported that his salary is approx. $70k. He can afford to built a house, especially in So. IL, right? If he hid income from Linda and we all know he cheated her out of her rightful due from 3ABN, there is nothing any of us can do about it. She was slow on the draw with the legal counsel and she got burnt, and as been posted, she has moved on. Unless she has cause, time money or inclination to go back and hire a Gloris Allred to get her money, it's a lost cause.

Ok so Danny is a liar and a cheat, and a whole list of other things fo which ne may not be reaping consequences at this time. However, we have God's assurance that he will. Believe me I am NOT saying that anyone should just wait and see, but recently there is no information worth posting, and then we have waundered into something the truly resembles envy. Those who have come here to defend him and 3ABN have little or no credibility because, like Appletree, we have no idea why they say the allegations are false. For some reason they believe we jsut ought to take their word for it. Like Richard, I am not trying to get anyone's ID, that is against the rules, but you've got to give us something as to how you know the allegations, generally posted with agreat deal of verification, is false. I have already posted my disloke for everyone who is "sending" folks to post for them, etc. I will add to that those running and hiding from Danny like he is God, and he isn't even a god, but by your own actions you give him more pwer t han he deserves. That being siad, there are one or two who stay annonymous and I can understand why , but this fear of Danny's retribution by those who oppose him, and worship by those who defend him, is just a ruckus. He is not God.

Bob, posting the pics of Pastor Gilley's home, was something akin to posting that letter from the lawyer without permission, IMO. I understand your concern and even frustration, but you should just stop a minute an check yourself, Brother. What exactly is all this doing to you, as a person? Your quality of life? I can understand hurt and dissapointment from those in position of "spiritual" trust and authority, especially if you were at one time a stanch supporter by funds and deeds. However, at some point we have to remember that because of their postion the are also held to a higher standard by God. You have been dilligent in sounding the alarm, not it is for each to do with the info what is right. Now, it just looks like you want to be right, by any means necessary, and I don't think that is the image you want to portray, right?

Since when have we expected our pastors to work for the church every waking moment of their lives. I know there are those that do that, and their finances and family suffer because of it. So we really expect them to work more than a 40 hour week?

Richard

[simplysaved]

Both Peter and Paul were evangelists....and not pastors.

Respectfully, scripture does not equal EGW writings--even she stated that ( and yes, I do believe them). In order for a pastor in 21st century to support a family on 35,000 annually, s/he has got to have means for further supporting the family.

Thanks for the kind welcome to BlackSDA.

To be sure, I did not use the phrase "24/7" but that's immaterial. How much less than 24/7 i.e. wholly committed service, should we as sheep be willing to accept from the shepherds over us? Is there ever an appropriate time for the shepherd to be occupied with another task?

Since you did ask for only the Biblical passages about pastors and their work I will assume that you are already familiar with the SOP counsel on this subject. Do you feel her counsel is appropriate?

The Levites, which are an Old Testament parallel to the NT pastor, in that they are both tithe-supported, never engaged in business other than the wide-ranging ministry of the sanctuary and its services. The texts which confirm this are too many to quote here. Read Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. They couldn't even own land!
Never in the NT do we see the apostles putting aside the work of the gospel in order to make a few extra bucks on the side.
Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Seems as though Peter did quite well without a side business.

Please don't use the example of Paul as a pastor who ran a side business because he was a tentmaker--the first "Tentmaker" ministry, if you will. He usually forewent the use of tithe in his ministry. What I am talking about is full-time tithe-supported gospel ministers. Why would they need to do other business? There is a conference pastor not far from where I live who is in a rural district. There is not enough funds to support him on a full-time salary. He works as a "stipend" pastor. He helps support himself by a trade he practices plus the small amount he gets from the conference. I think the difference between the two is clear. If Pastor Gilley is so well off that he can support himself as as tentmaker-style of minister of the gospel, then he should forgo his denominational salary---don't you think?

Blessings!
Side note:One reason most pastors burn out is that they actually overburden themselves, not by acquiring business interests, but by taking on too much responsibility within the church. A properly constituted church has active elders working in pastoral-type rolls. As a pastor's wife, you may understand how it is when the phone seems to ring all day--"Pastor, I need this; Pastor, please do that; etc"

[Ian]

Look at the life of many who claim to be Christians. The Lord has endowed them with capabilities, and power, and influence;
He has entrusted them with money, that they may be co-workers with Him in the great redemption.
All His gifts are to be used in blessing humanity, in relieving the suffering and the needy.
We are to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to care for the widow and the fatherless,
to minister to the distressed and downtrodden. God never meant that the widespread misery in the world should exist.
He never meant that one man should have an abundance of the luxuries of life, while the children of others should cry for bread.
The means over and above the actual necessities of life are entrusted to man to do good, to bless humanity.
The Lord says, "Sell that ye have, and give alms." Luke 12:33. Be "ready to distribute, willing to communicate." 1 Tim. 6:18.
"When thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind." Luke 14:13. "Loose the bands of wickedness,"
"undo the heavy burdens," "let the oppressed go free"

Alas, how many are appropriating to themselves the gifts of God! How many are adding house to house and land to land.
How many are spending their money for pleasure, for the gratification of appetite, for extravagant houses, furniture, and dress.
Their fellow beings are left to misery and crime, to disease and death. Multitudes are perishing without one pitying look, one word or deed of sympathy.

Men are guilty of robbery toward God. Their selfish use of means robs the Lord of the glory that should be reflected back to Him in the relief of suffering humanity and the salvation of souls.
They are embezzling His entrusted goods. COL 371

Hummmm....we may have more than one embezzler on our hands.

First you say look at others and attempt to make Jim Gilley guilty of the same without any evidence. He's not them.

Next you quoted something but failed to show how it applies to Jim Gilley

Then you conclude by suggesting Jim Gilley may be an embezzler.

THAT is flat out WRONG... and totally illogical.

Please stop.

This post has been edited by Ian: Dec 3 2007, 05:52 PM

[Pickle]

You and yours continually complain that you haven't seen the evidence, and keep demanding it be made public so you can see it, while declaring illogically that it was made public and she was exposed and that's a grievous sin. Which is it? (anyone who has common sense should realize it was impossible for the divorce itself to be kept a secret...and "something" had to be said)

Since you haven't seen the evidence, and admit it, then you don't really know what kind of divorce it was, or if it was biblical. Nor may I add was it your business, nor did you have any call or reason to attack and vilify those who did see it, or find fault with them.

Those who were concerned and whos business it was, reviewed the evidence and and dealt with it as privately as possible, as they were supposed to do, which is biblical and according to SOP guidelines. They attempted to put her under censure, you all (again without seeing the evidence) attacked and vilified them and claimed that was unfair, and called them every other name in the book, and accused them of all kinds of evil.

Then you come on here talking about your duty to expose and rebuke sin, and accusing others of condoing and coverups and not getting rid of the sin iin their camp.

Next, you, personally, claim you haven't taken a stance where Linda is concerned...

I'm sorry, but it's all a bit hard for me to swallow.

Some of my statements were made at times before I had certain facts. Once I read where Danny indicated after the divorce that he wasn't sure whether Linda had commited fornication, then I had something concrete and indisputable: Danny divorced his wife without having biblical grounds, and if for no other reason, since God holds leaders to greater accountability than others, his local church should consider church discipline for him.

After all, Moses was patient for 40 years, got selfishly angry once just after his sister died, struck a rock twice instead of speaking to it, and was told he couldn't do what he had waited actually 80 years to do: lead the people into the promised land.

There are some things regarding Linda I have taken a stnace on, and some things I haven't.

[Richard Sherwin]

What is the best way to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and all the rest? How about we employ them? Thats always better than a handout. How do we employ them? How about building a $600,000 dollar house? When a person buys the luxuries of life that money does not disappear, it pays the guy on the assembly line to make that Cadillac so he can feed his family. Wealthy people do not live in a vacuum, when they spend money on themselves they give it to others in the best way possible, not as a handout but as an earning. We bless the poor and humanity by buying things that they make. I applaud Mr. Gilley for being able to afford some of the luxuries of life and by doing so feeding the poor and clothing the naked. To just give out money without them earning it we do them no favors.

Richard

Look at the life of many who claim to be Christians. The Lord has endowed them with capabilities, and power, and influence;
He has entrusted them with money, that they may be co-workers with Him in the great redemption.
All His gifts are to be used in blessing humanity, in relieving the suffering and the needy.
We are to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to care for the widow and the fatherless,
to minister to the distressed and downtrodden. God never meant that the widespread misery in the world should exist.
He never meant that one man should have an abundance of the luxuries of life, while the children of others should cry for bread.
The means over and above the actual necessities of life are entrusted to man to do good, to bless humanity.
The Lord says, "Sell that ye have, and give alms." Luke 12:33. Be "ready to distribute, willing to communicate." 1 Tim. 6:18.
"When thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind." Luke 14:13. "Loose the bands of wickedness,"
"undo the heavy burdens," "let the oppressed go free"

Alas, how many are appropriating to themselves the gifts of God! How many are adding house to house and land to land.
How many are spending their money for pleasure, for the gratification of appetite, for extravagant houses, furniture, and dress.
Their fellow beings are left to misery and crime, to disease and death. Multitudes are perishing without one pitying look, one word or deed of sympathy.

Men are guilty of robbery toward God. Their selfish use of means robs the Lord of the glory that should be reflected back to Him in the relief of suffering humanity and the salvation of souls.
They are embezzling His entrusted goods. COL 371

Hummmm....we may have more than one embezzler on our hands.

[Pickle]

Richard, I think there is more of a expectancy that they are "available" 24/7, even though they may not work those hors.

I found it helpful to share soul winning experiences with my congregations. I wanted to inpisre them to work for God.

A side benefit that materialized was that they somehow got the idea that I was super busy, and were hesitant to bother me.

Now that last district of 6 counties where we blanketed four with Bible study enrollment cards, yes, that was busy.

Bob, posting the pics of Pastor Gilley's home, was something akin to posting that letter from the lawyer without permission, IMO. I understand your concern and even frustration, but you should just stop a minute an check yourself, Brother. What exactly is all this doing to you, as a person? Your quality of life? I can understand hurt and dissapointment from those in position of "spiritual" trust and authority, especially if you were at one time a stanch supporter by funds and deeds. However, at some point we have to remember that because of their postion the are also held to a higher standard by God. You have been dilligent in sounding the alarm, not it is for each to do with the info what is right. Now, it just looks like you want to be right, by any means necessary, and I don't think that is the image you want to portray, right?

I appreciate your words of wisdom. But do note that I said nothing critical of his home, and they were already publicly available by his permission. Nick's letter was not publicly available.

I actually had a rather large home myself. 10' ceilings on the first floor. 9' ceilings on the second floor. Those two floors were 2660 sq. ft. Then we had an almost full basement that had 2' thick stone walls and joists about 9' up on top of 8 x 8 posts, and a floored attic that could have made another floor with its dormers and windows. There were four staircases. Ornate woodwork. Stained glass windows. A front door with a frosted window that had a scene with some deer on it. Four acres. A 40 x 80 barn. A 24 x 24 or so garage. And a little bit more.

Bought it in 1993 I think. $45,000. So you know it was not in California.

It was built in 1904 or 1909. Strange thing is that it seems that after the Great Depression hit, houses didn't get built as big. That's been my impression. But the further away that catastrophe gets, the bigger they get. I rather think that if we have another one, most of us will look at the subject a bit differently.

There is something about the penny pinching required to get through a major depression that trains kids as well as adults to view the topic of stewardship a bit differently.

Now I hope I said all that without coming across critical.

[Seraphim7]

is there concrete evidence that Mr. Shelton has done wrong?

Is it wrong to lie? Danny came to BlackSDA UNSOLICITED and told a number of bald faced lies. Danny brought his business here, we did not seek it out.

He divorced? the Adventist church allows for divorce, and while the divorce might be questionable to the church, the United States allows for divorce so where is the problem?

You are right it is an every day thing for folks, even Adventists, to get divorced. However, the lies he told brought his personal issues to the fore because Danny, the televagnelist with a world wide ministry, first publicly then on the world wide web "claimed" he loved his wife and came to solicit for his efforts to save his marriage. Then soon there after he put to pasture the marriage he claimed to want saved and the wife of his youth for a youngerr filly.

Additionally it is not illegal to make money here in the U.S., so he is making money, where is the issue?

You are right HH, it is not illegal to make money in the U.S. The questions I have to ask are these... is it moral to take money from people who believe they are giving those funds to an actual legally affiliated church ministry, based on the claims made by said ministry?

Has, and does, Danny's ministry accept "tithes" from members of the Adventist church under the guise, though not speciifically stated, of being a ministry that has an affiliation with the Adventist church?

Is it possible that hundreds, thousands or possibly millions, of people would have thought twice about supporting his independent ministry, to the extent that they have, had they been aware, from the start, that it is with no specific affiliation with the Adventist church?

True, it may not be illegal to mislead, and or, misrepresent facts so that said ministry will make a profit off of all of those gullable people. True, it may not be illegal however, it does not make it right by any stretch of the imagination but, as one "claiming" to be a minister of the gospel of Christ Jesus the behavior he and those who have supported him have shown they have no problem misrepresenting themselves for profit.

Jesus holds us to a higher standard then the legal system of man. And yes, Danny will reap what he has sown here, if he does not repent and make things right, befor our Father in Heaven shows up.

The geinie is out of the bottle because Danny did a number of things wrong. Then to add insult to injury the lies and misrepresention of facts continue because face it. To admit the truth he would loose everything. He would stop being "famous" and become infamous.

in·fa·mous [in-fuh-muhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. having an extremely bad reputation: an infamous city.
2. deserving of or causing an evil reputation; shamefully malign; detestable: an infamous deed.

But hey, that's just my take on what has been brought to our attention by the "brother".

And we haven't even touched on the the issues of the souls that will be, and have been affected negatively, by any misrepresentation of the facts. Or, how the Adventists churches credibility has been compremised, based on the actions of those who have misrepresentd facts