Danny Shelton, Please Come Home!, It's time to stop running Options

[appletree]

Appletree, you can pretend that Danny hasn't said untrue things about his ex-wife, publicly. You can pretend he hasn't sent avatars and tried to spin all these documents and firsthand accounts. You can pretend he didn't violate Matthew 18, 1 Corinthians 6, and a raft of EGW teachings ... IOW you can even pretend he's not currently suing people who tried to follow the church's biblical teachings on conflict resolutions.

But it is Danny's visible, public behavior that is the finest evidence he is not fit to lead a public ministry.

We're really watching. It's too late to turn back the clock. The wheels are turning.

He could always withdraw from 3ABN; I suppose you've suggested that he do so, to spare 3ABN and the church any further embarrassment?

Edited to put an "ex" in front of "wife" in paragraph two, and to remove an extraneous "that" in paragraph 3. Later edited again to remove name calling and excessive brutality.

Soul, you can pretend that you know what you are talking about, but you don't. Unless you tell me different, I am assuming you weren't there. I was. I saw what happened from beginning to end. I know that if Danny and 3abn was as horrible as you want to believe, there is plenty that could be exposed to the public that could have alleviated most of the internet mess. They didn't. Personally I would have. Plenty of people would have had egg on their face but they would get over it. The board and Danny didn't agree. They were kind, patient and very biblical in their approach to Linda.

The were patient when the Joy/Pickle team started slandering Danny and the ministry on the net. But, enough is enough. For you to say Pickle and Joy were trying to be biblical in their approach is an absolute joke. They know nothing except what they have been told and led to believe. They, like you, have never even been to 3abn. They don't know anyone personally involved except for Linda. That in itself ought to tell you something. FYI the bible talks about not sueing "your brother." Pickle Joy and the others involved are not our "brothers" in any sense of the word. Christians do not get on the net with flashy headlines saying "Breaking News" when they are truly heartbroken over, what they perceive, to be a sinful situation. They exposed their accusations to the world which SOP tells us specifically not to do, and did it in a nasty, and vile manner similar to the trash magazines. The bible also says not to sue for personal gain. 3abn isn't. They are sueing for the losses caused directly from the damage done on these internet sites. Undeserved damage. Free speech is one thing. Slander and defamation without verifiable proof is another. When something of this nature causes loss of trust, loss of support and ruin's people's characters, there is accountability. I would have acted on it much sooner than the 3abn board did. Again, they showed patience, and spent time in prayer and fasting before these actions were taken.

As for Spinning the documents... What documents did he spin and how would you know if he did or didn't? Your accusations are like chafe in the wind. You don't know him at all. He isn't on these sites, his schedule doesn't allow for that kind of time investment. He is an extremely busy guy and always has been. IMO he has behaved in a most christian manner after being hurt in a way that could crush most men. Then, on top of it, because of lies and rumors, he is accused of being the bad guy when, in fact, the wrongs were done to him. Not the other way around. I have witnessed that many times. As for his "public behaviour" he forced himself to get in front of the camera's and in front of audiences all over the world when he was feeling humiliated and depressed. He showed a great attitude when he felt like crawling in a hole. He maintained his faith in God even when, it looked like his world was collapsing. He has never "blamed" God as many do, publically or privately. That kind of faith is why God used him to raise the 3abn ministry in the first place.

[appletree]

[quote name='justice4jesus' date='Jan 14 2008, 08:43 AM' post='232659']
Appletree,



color="#8B0000"].Danny has made himself guilty of at least some of these accusations, as has been proven time and time again on this site, Maritime, Save3ABN, and wherever else this issue has been discussed. [/color]


Now that, is where, your confusion comes in. Proven time and again on these sites? No, I'm sorry not at all. Many things have been told on these sites. Many accusations have been made on these sites. Many lies have been told on these sites. But, nowhere, nowhere, has verifiable proof been shown of Danny being involved in wrong doing. Is he perfect? Certainly not, who is. Has he made mistakes? Haven't we all? But to say that he intentionally set out to do wrong or hurt someone....absolutely not. Whatever he has said or done...he always acted on the knowledge and information that he had at the time. That is all anyone can do.


I've saved the biggest for last....I posted a well-intentioned plea for Danny to reconcile with God and those who have been hurt by his actions, and you actually have a problem with that! Congratulations, Appletree. You have left me speechless. There is no pleasant way to address that one.

All I can do from this point is to keep you in my prayers along with Danny and Tommy....or do you have a problem with that, too?

I don't have a problem with anyone keeping me in their prayers. In fact, I welcome it. I do have a problem with you making statements of fact like the above where you say Danny has to reconcile with those who have been hurt....etc etc. Again. Were you there to see what happened and what was said in any given situation or are you going on what you have heard. If you weren't a witness you have no right to make such statements. If you were a witness, the bible says if you have ought with your brother, go to him and him alone. Have you done that?

We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. All of us. There isn't a one of us that haven't hurt a person or persons in our lifetimes, many times, unknowlingly. So my "problem" with what you have done is because you are singleing out inviduals that "you think" need to repent. You are not the judge of other men's hearts, and we are all in the same boat where repentence is concerned. Danny has done no more or no less than the rest of us bible believing christians trying to make it to the kingdom.

[princessdi]

Oh but they did folow hte biblical principles for resolving sucha issue. I remember, and posted here are plenty of emails, and Bob told of countless phone calls make to Dannya nd WT directly, looking ofr answers to his question. Danny's people at the time did not refute this fact because they said that Bob was harrassing Danny and WT. After trying to get answers from them and everyone around them, he had no choice but to take it to the "church" meaning for 3ABN their viewing public. Appletree and Ian, I dont' know if you just really dont' know htese things, such as nobody here came up with "Spiritual adultery" and that Danny is one who came up with that, or you think we just don't remember or that we are stupid. It aint' workin' tho. I also realize that you are basically playing to "new" readers. But you know we ain't gonna let you get away with that either. For every none truth you post, there will be a counter, the truth.

If Danny had WT had honestly and openly answered the questions of a faithful supporter back then, they would not be in this predicament now.

Soul, you can pretend that you know what you are talking about, but you don't. Unless you tell me different, I am assuming you weren't there. I was. I saw what happened from beginning to end. I know that if Danny and 3abn was as horrible as you want to believe, there is plenty that could be exposed to the public that could have alleviated most of the internet mess. They didn't. Personally I would have. Plenty of people would have had egg on their face but they would get over it. The board and Danny didn't agree. They were kind, patient and very biblical in their approach to Linda.

The were patient when the Joy/Pickle team started slandering Danny and the ministry on the net. But, enough is enough. For you to say Pickle and Joy were trying to be biblical in their approach is an absolute joke. They know nothing except what they have been told and led to believe. They, like you, have never even been to 3abn. They don't know anyone personally involved except for Linda. That in itself ought to tell you something. FYI the bible talks about not sueing "your brother." Pickle Joy and the others involved are not our "brothers" in any sense of the word. Christians do not get on the net with flashy headlines saying "Breaking News" when they are truly heartbroken over, what they perceive, to be a sinful situation. They exposed their accusations to the world which SOP tells us specifically not to do, and did it in a nasty, and vile manner similar to the trash magazines. The bible also says not to sue for personal gain. 3abn isn't. They are sueing for the losses caused directly from the damage done on these internet sites. Undeserved damage. Free speech is one thing. Slander and defamation without verifiable proof is another. When something of this nature causes loss of trust, loss of support and ruin's people's characters, there is accountability. I would have acted on it much sooner than the 3abn board did. Again, they showed patience, and spent time in prayer and fasting before these actions were taken.

As for Spinning the documents... What documents did he spin and how would you know if he did or didn't? Your accusations are like chafe in the wind. You don't know him at all. He isn't on these sites, his schedule doesn't allow for that kind of time investment. He is an extremely busy guy and always has been. IMO he has behaved in a most christian manner after being hurt in a way that could crush most men. Then, on top of it, because of lies and rumors, he is accused of being the bad guy when, in fact, the wrongs were done to him. Not the other way around. I have witnessed that many times. As for his "public behaviour" he forced himself to get in front of the camera's and in front of audiences all over the world when he was feeling humiliated and depressed. He showed a great attitude when he felt like crawling in a hole. He maintained his faith in God even when, it looked like his world was collapsing. He has never "blamed" God as many do, publically or privately. That kind of faith is why God used him to raise the 3abn ministry in the first place.

[princessdi]

Jes' heathen! LOL!!!

I know this is but the title of this thread has put this here in my head ... all ... day!

[justice4jesus]

Now that, is where, your confusion comes in. Proven time and again on these sites? No, I'm sorry not at all. Many things have been told on these sites. Many accusations have been made on these sites. Many lies have been told on these sites. But, nowhere, nowhere, has verifiable proof been shown of Danny being involved in wrong doing. Is he perfect? Certainly not, who is. Has he made mistakes? Haven't we all? But to say that he intentionally set out to do wrong or hurt someone....absolutely not. Whatever he has said or done...he always acted on the knowledge and information that he had at the time. That is all anyone can do.

I don't have a problem with anyone keeping me in their prayers. In fact, I welcome it. I do have a problem with you making statements of fact like the above where you say Danny has to reconcile with those who have been hurt....etc etc. Again. Were you there to see what happened and what was said in any given situation or are you going on what you have heard. If you weren't a witness you have no right to make such statements. If you were a witness, the bible says if you have ought with your brother, go to him and him alone. Have you done that?

We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. All of us. There isn't a one of us that haven't hurt a person or persons in our lifetimes, many times, unknowlingly. So my "problem" with what you have done is because you are singleing out inviduals that "you think" need to repent. You are not the judge of other men's hearts, and we are all in the same boat where repentence is concerned. Danny has done no more or no less than the rest of us bible believing christians trying to make it to the kingdom.[/color]

I am not the one who is confused here, Appletree. If you had any idea how closely connected I am to some of the goings-on, I don't think you would have said that.

I feel in my heart of hearts that I have remained within Scriptural guidelines, and others here have concurred. I will say this....I know what conviction feels like, and I have felt none thus far in this discussion. And don't bother accusing me of being reprobate. If I were, I wouldn't have a care in the world about Danny, anyone else here, or who may be hurt by any of it. If I ever do feel convicted over something I say or have said, I will be the first to admit it and make amends for such.

[Ian]

Appletree, you can pretend that Danny hasn't said untrue things about his ex-wife, publicly.

I am not arguing with your opinion, keep it if you choose, BUT could you provide at least one quote of Danny's exact words with a reference to demonstrate what you are talking about, and/or proof that what he said is untrue?

If so, you'll be the first.... and maybe this can finally be discussed rationally...

If not, perhaps you shouldn't be accusing others, especially those with first hand knowledge, of 'pretending"?

You can pretend he hasn't sent avatars and tried to spin all these documents and firsthand accounts.

Soul Espresso,

With all due respect,

Repeatedly those who have tried to supply evidence where they could, or rational arguments and reasons as a balance to all the accusations, allegations and faultfinding here, have been accused of being sent by Danny or 3ABN, or told what to say, or fed information, and even accused of being paid to post here, this has even been brought up by Pickle and Joy in the lawsuit. Pickle even asked for all such correspondence and payment records etc in his demands for everything but the kitchen sink. (ridiculous!)

From the beginning 3abn asked their people not to get involved in the forums, Danny posted that here himself, and without fail , every single poster accused of this has said this is false, it is untrue. No one sent me, no one told me what to say, or post.

Yet you and others keep making this accusation anyway, without a shred of evidence or proof.

Have you considered how very disrespectful and wrong that is?

Basically you are calling us all liars. I know the people being accused of this, and they aren't liars.

I ask and appeal to you at least, to stop doing so unless you can make a case and prove what you say.

You might find that if you start giving others respect and prove the things you say, or at least admit they are your opinions and stop stating things as foregone conclusions and facts, others may be more inclined to answer you and your posts and questions with equal respect, rather then ignoring your posts and questions for the most part, or blocking you.

Just an idea...

This post has been edited by Ian: Jan 23 2008, 09:12 AM

[Johann]

I am not arguing with your opinion, keep it if you choose, BUT could you provide at least one quote of Danny's exact words with a reference to demonstrate what you are talking about, and/or proof that what he said is untrue?

If so, you'll be the first.... and maybe this can finally be discussed rationally...

If not, perhaps you shouldn't be accusing others, especially those with first hand knowledge, of 'pretending"?




Soul Espresso,

With all due respect,

Repeatedly those who have tried to supply evidence where they could, or rational arguments and reasons as a balance to all the accusations, allegations and faultfinding here, have been accused of being sent by Danny or 3ABN, or told what to say, or fed information, and even accused of being paid to post here, this has even been brought up by Pickle and Joy in the lawsuit. Pickle even asked for all such correspondence and payment records etc in his demands for everything but the kitchen sink. (ridiculous!)

From the beginning 3abn asked their people not to get involved in the forums, Danny posted that here himself, and without fail , every single poster accused of this has said this is false, it is untrue. No one sent me, no one told me what to say, or post.

Yet you and others keep making this accusation anyway, without a shred of evidence or proof.

Have you considered how very disrespectful and wrong that is?

Basically you are calling us all liars. I know the people being accused of this, and they aren't liars.

I ask and appeal to you at least to stop doing so unless you can make a case and prove what you say.

You might find that if you start giving others respect and prove the things you say, or at least admit they are your opinions and stop stating things as foregone conclusions and facts, others may be more inclined to answer you and your posts and questions with equal respect, rather then ignoring your posts and questions, or blocking you.

Just an idea...

You do not have to look very far any more. Look at the latest on the new save-3abn.com, and there you have what you are looking for. Truth does not hide.

[Ian]

I am not the one who is confused here, Appletree. If you had any idea how closely connected I am to some of the goings-on, I don't think you would have said that.

I feel in my heart of hearts that I have remained within Scriptural guidelines, and others here have concurred. I will say this....I know what conviction feels like, and I have felt none thus far in this discussion. And don't bother accusing me of being reprobate. If I were, I wouldn't have a care in the world about Danny, anyone else here, or who may be hurt by any of it. If I ever do feel convicted over something I say or have said, I will be the first to admit it and make amends for such.

The problem here is that you don't know Danny, except to nod or say "how are you?" and you are not involved at 3abn, nor do you have any personal knowledge about 3abn or these issues today, or the close connections you imply here.. You are only posting based on what others have said, that is why your claims to be in the know, and to have known him for 30 years are irritating to me personally as they are misleading to others, and imply more, or things which are not the cse.

Yes, people do know who you are, but it is not my intention, nor any other's that I know of, to out you.

I just want to be honest and upfront about where I am coming from.

You can pm me if you want to discuss anything private or personal, or engage in an emotional outburst.

This post has been edited by Ian: Jan 23 2008, 06:39 AM

[Ian]

You do not have to look very far any more. Look at the latest on the new save-3abn.com, and there you have what you are looking for. Truth does not hide.

I have seen it, and IMHO is far more helpful to 3ABN than to Pickle's article with his usual tactics and attempts at spinning and out of context arguments which prove nothing. Not to mention his usual National Enquirer type headlines, and once more representing Danny Shelton as saying things he didn't say.

Thank you for bringing this up Johann.

And an aside, congratulation on your new website, 3abncritiqued.info, may it bring you all you seek and all that you ask for.

I would invite all to watch the broadcast Johann is referring to , and see for themselves what 3abn's critics and accusers have referred to as Linda being trashed, and the lies which were told. NOT.


Here's the link:
http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-agr...h-attorneys.htm

scroll to the bottom to view the June 17, 2004 3abn live broadcast for yourself.

This post has been edited by Ian: Jan 23 2008, 07:01 AM

[justice4jesus]

The problem here is that you don't know Danny, except to nod or say "how are you?" and you are not involved at 3abn, nor do you have any personal knowledge about 3abn or these issues today, or the close connections you imply here.. You are only posting based on what others have said, that is why your claims to be in the know, and to have known him for 30 years are irritating to me personally as they are misleading to others, and imply more, or things which are not the cse.

Yes, people do know who you are, but it is not my intention, nor any other's that I know of, to out you.

I just want to be honest and upfront about where I am coming from.

You can pm me if you want to discuss anything private or personal, or engage in an emotional outburst.

You know naught of which you speak, Ian. I've known Danny for many years, and I know things that no one would have ever imagined that I know.

And you accuse OTHERS of getting on here and saying things that they know nothing about?

[GRAT]

I have seen it, and IMHO is far more helpful to 3ABN than to Pickle's article with his usual tactics and attempts at spinning and out of context arguments which prove nothing. Not to mention his usual National Enquirer type headlines, and once more representing Danny Shelton as saying things he didn't say.

Thank you for bringing this up Johann.

And an aside, congratulation on your new website, 3abncritiqued.info, may it bring you all you seek and all that you ask for.

I would invite all to watch the broadcast Johann is referring to , and see for themselves what 3abn's critics and accusers have referred to as Linda being trashed, and the lies which were told. NOT.
Here's the link:
http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-agr...h-attorneys.htm

scroll to the bottom to view the June 17, 2004 3abn live broadcast for yourself.

I watched all 30 plus minutes of the broadcast yesterday and believe me it did Not help the cause of 3abn. The biggest lie was "I love Linda". That was proved to be a lie by his actions. I was amazed that Danny could sit there with no emotion what-so-ever, talk in circles and not say much of anything but ask for money. If I had not know the history I would have been left wondering "What the Hay".
I know, I know I wasn't there.

[sister]

I am not arguing with your opinion, keep it if you choose, BUT could you provide at least one quote of Danny's exact words with a reference to demonstrate what you are talking about, and/or proof that what he said is untrue?

If so, you'll be the first.... and maybe this can finally be discussed rationally...

If not, perhaps you shouldn't be accusing others, especially those with first hand knowledge, of 'pretending"?
Soul Espresso,

With all due respect,

Repeatedly those who have tried to supply evidence where they could, or rational arguments and reasons as a balance to all the accusations, allegations and faultfinding here, have been accused of being sent by Danny or 3ABN, or told what to say, or fed information, and even accused of being paid to post here, this has even been brought up by Pickle and Joy in the lawsuit. Pickle even asked for all such correspondence and payment records etc in his demands for everything but the kitchen sink. (ridiculous!)

From the beginning 3abn asked their people not to get involved in the forums, Danny posted that here himself, and without fail , every single poster accused of this has said this is false, it is untrue.

No one sent me, no one told me what to say, or post.

Yet you and others keep making this accusation anyway, without a shred of evidence or proof.

Have you considered how very disrespectful and wrong that is?

Basically you are calling us all liars. I know the people being accused of this, and they aren't liars.

I ask and appeal to you at least, to stop doing so unless you can make a case and prove what you say.

You might find that if you start giving others respect and prove the things you say, or at least admit they are your opinions and stop stating things as foregone conclusions and facts, others may be more inclined to answer you and your posts and questions with equal respect, rather then ignoring your posts and questions for the most part, or blocking you.

Just an idea...

I would like to refer to Ian’s statements that I have highlighted in red. He claims to have come here independently, yet he also claims to know the other individuals posting here, in the same vein as himself, intimately enough that he is willing to vouch for their absolute honesty. Interesting...

Both Soul Espresso and I have often been in agreement on 3ABN topics, yet I do not know him personally, nor could I vouch with absolute certainty of his character attributes. I could, based upon reading his posts, suggests that he appears to be an honorable man, but I could not say that I know him personally nor make statements of an absolute nature regarding his character. The statement I have made concerning the character of Soul Espresso, I could also make about a number of others including PrincessDi, and Mr. J. Having only a forum relationship with them makes it impossible to comment further concerning their individual characters or to make absolute statements in regard to their honesty in all matters. It would merely be an assumption upon my part. Yet in light of this, Ian makes a blanket statement that infers he not only is personally acquainted with all those who so adamantly defended Danny Shelton, but that he knows them intimately enough to defend them as a group when it comes to their corporate honesty. Interesting...

Am I the only one seeing this or has Ian’s own statements set the stage for the question of conspiracy to be raised? Are Ian, Appletree, and the others included in his statements, a group of conspirators that have come to BSDA for one purpose? Interesting...

I never would have considered broaching this subject without Ian’s own testimony.

Just an idea... Right, Ian?

[Ozzie]

Am I the only one seeing this or has Ian’s own statements set the stage for the question of conspiracy to be raised? Are Ian, Appletree, and the others included in his statements, a group of conspirators that have come to BSDA for one purpose? Interesting...

I never would have considered broaching this subject without Ian’s own testimony.

Just an idea... Right, Ian?

No. You are not alone in wondering about this intersting situation Sister. Ian was so emphatic with his statments, that it really leaves one wondering... if?

[Dona]

Am I the only one seeing this or has Ian’s own statements set the stage for the question of conspiracy to be raised? Are Ian, Appletree, and the others included in his statements, a group of conspirators that have come to BSDA for one purpose? Interesting...

I never would have considered broaching this subject without Ian’s own testimony.

Sister, you have got to be kidding! There has been numerous times that different individuals, including yourself, have falsely accused, assumed and/or strongly hinted at such and there was no basis of any testimony from Ian or anyone else to cause anyone to make that assumption. It is clear that individuals, from their own testimony, came here and after reading what was being said searched into the matter and found that truth was not being shared. They stood up and made their own voices (words) heard for truth. It has not been a conspiracy. I have been included in that group, as you put it, and I can say in truth that no one has, at any time, even begin to approach me to ask me to come here or tell me what to do or say. There is a saying that truth is stranger than fiction and we see the proof of that here. Many would rather hear and believe the fiction that has been ahared and not hear and believe the truth. Sad.

Dona

[appletree]

Sister, you have got to be kidding! There has been numerous times that different individuals, including yourself, have falsely accused, assumed and/or strongly hinted at such and there was no basis of any testimony from Ian or anyone else to cause anyone to make that assumption. It is clear that individuals, from their own testimony, came here and after reading what was being said searched into the matter and found that truth was not being shared. They stood up and made their own voices (words) heard for truth. It has not been a conspiracy. I have been included in that group, as you put it, and I can say in truth that no one has, at any time, even begin to approach me to ask me to come here or tell me what to do or say. There is a saying that truth is stranger than fiction and we see the proof of that here. Many would rather hear and believe the fiction that has been ahared and not hear and believe the truth. Sad.

Dona

Words of wisdom Dona. If you notice when accusations and speculation seem to lag....sister appears to "stir things up" again. This has been a consistent pattern. Tells me a lot about his/her motives as does her "stories" that are twisted so much, they become a lie. The hatred he/she feels towards Danny and 3abn is obvious even to the "other side."

These constant accusations and "Conspiracy Theories" show a sort of desperation. I believe that stems from truths and facts that have been shown from the 3abn supporters which very often contradicts what sister has written. This "paid to post" and Danny's minions" mentality is nothing more than an intent to dissolve credibility. We on the side of 3abn could make the same accusations toward the "other side". In fact there would be some basis to it since, by their own admission, Joy and Pickle said long ago they were Linda's representatives. Some have also admitted to being close friends with Linda.

So you see, if we want to speculate and throw around accusations about conspiracy's, we have plenty of ammunition to do so. We don't. It's a waste of time and obviously none of us feel that "desperate" need to "stir the pot" as sister does.