An Unauthorized History of 3ABN, Chapter 6 (more of the televangelist) Options

[watchbird]

On the level where the facts support further investigation, there are things being done... not online in chat rooms, but in the areas of action where those actions can produce actual results... well, hopefully there will be results.

This is a very key statement. And when things are "being done" there is only so much that can be said in public. At the same time it is necessary to say as much as possible in public for several reasons, not all of which can be revealed publicly.

I am 45 yrs old and I have learned not to believe everything I read... I have lived long enough to know everyone has an agenda.... and until it is proven, I do not know that Danny has killed anyone, nor molested anyone.... I do know that he divorced Linda on the grounds of spiritual adultery...and that there is no such animal.... thats all I know...

Now you may choose to believe all you read, thats your decision, but in the absence of evidence, I choose not to...

You might be better advised to withhold judgement rather than choosing disbelief. "Evidence" is only useful in a court of law. If it is produced otherwise, it loses its value in a court of law when it is finally produced. And even if it were to be produced on BSDA, who would be able to know whether it was true or false? What you are hearing is testimony from first hand witnesses. What you are hearing in some cases in from actual participants. When Beartrap reports things that happens to someone who leaves 3ABN and seeks employment elsewhere. he is speaking as one who knows from first hand experience. First hand experience of two kinds--that which has happened to himself personally and that which he has personally witnessed happening to others. Those who call for quick action and for those involved to "do something" simply are not listening. Especially they are not listening to the sounds between the lines.

There is precious little "speculation" going on here. Even what is given in the form of speculation is seldom even close to that. What is being given is little glimpses through the cracks in the high board fence.

Those who are wise will listen well, not criticize those who don't "do something", and file everything away for future reference when at last the truth can be told.

[Clay]

This is a very key statement. And when things are "being done" there is only so much that can be said in public. At the same time it is necessary to say as much as possible in public for several reasons, not all of which can be revealed publicly.
You might be better advised to withhold judgement rather than choosing disbelief. "Evidence" is only useful in a court of law. If it is produced otherwise, it loses its value in a court of law when it is finally produced. And even if it were to be produced on BSDA, who would be able to know whether it was true or false? What you are hearing is testimony from first hand witnesses. What you are hearing in some cases in from actual participants. When Beartrap reports things that happens to someone who leaves 3ABN and seeks employment elsewhere. he is speaking as one who knows from first hand experience. First hand experience of two kinds--that which has happened to himself personally and that which he has personally witnessed happening to others. Those who call for quick action and for those involved to "do something" simply are not listening. Especially they are not listening to the sounds between the lines.

There is precious little "speculation" going on here. Even what is given in the form of speculation is seldom even close to that. What is being given is little glimpses through the cracks in the high board fence.

Those who are wise will listen well, not criticize those who don't "do something", and file everything away for future reference when at last the truth can be told.

so you say.... I have no way of knowing that anything that has been posted is "the truth." I do not know the players, and don't know if people are who they say they are.... this is the internet... You say its a glimpse, I say its a perception... and people's perceptions have been known to be flawed....

While this is not a court of law, there is no independent verification of any of this, save some of the info Fran posted about the finances... so until proven otherwise... it sounds like speculation....

show me the stigmata.....

[watchbird]

Evidence is more than coming on here and making accusations anyone can do that. And just cos 3ABN or whoever chooses not to come on here - (there is no reason why they have to) does not give them carte blance to continue their writings. We have not learned anything about Danny beyond his divorce and new marriage which can be verified -all else is gossip. When one comes on here and writes it does not suddenly become Holy Writ when it hits the screen. They might be right about Danny and they might be wrong.

I had thought that gossip involved a third or fourth party handling of information. When people come and tell their own stories--especially when they are verified by two or three or four witnesses--that would seem to me to have moved out of the realm of gossip and moved into the realm of personal testimony. Which is, as you know, even admissable as evidence in a court of law.

so you say.... I have no way of knowing that anything that has been posted is "the truth." I do not know the players, and don't know if people are who they say they are.... this is the internet... You say its a glimpse, I say its a perception... and people's perceptions have been known to be flawed....

While this is not a court of law, there is no independent verification of any of this, save some of the info Fran posted about the finances... so until proven otherwise... it sounds like speculation....

show me the stigmata.....

Let's just hope that "the stigmata" doesn't turn out to be a body.

[PaperTigers]

Speculation? where is the proof? How do we know they were in danger of being fired?

All I can say is that from personal experience.. We were STRONGLY encouraged to not speak to Linda, and even talking about Linda was something you did in hushed whispers.

[beartrap]

I hate to see the waters muddied like this. There are legitimate concerns and issues, surrounding Danny, where there is ample evidence and immediate witness. Many of these matters walk the edge of what normal people can stomache, and I think that going beyond those in this type of forum can be counterproductive, even if one feels very strongly about them. For everything there is a time and a place. There are legitimate actions taking place to deal with legitimate issues, and sometimes going a little too deep, too soon can call into question the legitimacy of everything, reducing progress, and making it far more difficult to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

[Clay]

I had thought that gossip involved a third or fourth party handling of information. When people come and tell their own stories--especially when they are verified by two or three or four witnesses--that would seem to me to have moved out of the realm of gossip and moved into the realm of personal testimony. Which is, as you know, even admissable as evidence in a court of law.
Let's just hope that "the stigmata" doesn't turn out to be a body.

as I stated before... this is the internet... how do we know who we are really talking to? How do we know they are 1st hand testimony? How do we know that they themselves have not done what they have accused Mr. Shelton of? In the absence of full disclosure, we don't know.... so it falls into the area of speculation....

[Denny]

I had thought that gossip involved a third or fourth party handling of information. When people come and tell their own stories--especially when they are verified by two or three or four witnesses--that would seem to me to have moved out of the realm of gossip and moved into the realm of personal testimony. Which is, as you know, even admissable as evidence in a court of law.
Let's just hope that "the stigmata" doesn't turn out to be a body.

But are these independant witnesses or people with an axe to grind against 3ABN? who knows I certainly don't. They could be Danny's mother it still does not make it Holy Writ when it hits my pc screen.

[beartrap]

All I can say is that from personal experience.. We were STRONGLY encouraged to not speak to Linda, and even talking about Linda was something you did in hushed whispers.

Very true. Danny told me personally that anyone saying anything would be fired.

[Clay]

All I can say is that from personal experience.. We were STRONGLY encouraged to not speak to Linda, and even talking about Linda was something you did in hushed whispers.

and you obeyed this recommendation why? Because of fear another child of God was mistreated... is that what you are saying?

Very true. Danny told me personally that anyone saying anything would be fired.

so rather than do the right thing, people opted to shun Linda? Is that what you are saying?

[Denny]

If and I say if these stories are correct how do you feel doing nothing about such blatant wrong doing at the work place? We like to sing Stand like a brave (its in our hymnal) and Dare to be a Daniel but not saying its an easy thing to stand for what you believe is right but how you all feel now?

[beartrap]

and you obeyed this recommendation why? Because of fear another child of God was mistreated... is that what you are saying?
so rather than do the right thing, people opted to shun Linda? Is that what you are saying?

Not all of us chose to obey and shun Linda.

[Johann]

Evidence is more than coming on here and making accusations anyone can do that. And just cos 3ABN or whoever chooses not to come on here - (there is no reason why they have to) does not give them carte blance to continue their writings. We have not learned anything about Danny beyond his divorce and new marriage which can be verified -all else is gossip. When one comes on here and writes it does not suddenly become Holy Writ when it hits the screen. They might be right about Danny and they might be wrong.

Denny, when you hear someone insisting on you having robbed the bank in a town 50 miles away while you were still glued to you potty, will you believe every word that person says ever after as Holy Writ? Is nobody permitted to deffend you, stating they saw you on your potty?

Well, that was the wrong illustration I used, because I want to tell you something else. My wife and I were with Linda, partly in person, partly in constant communication by e-mail and phone, and also with several of those people who seem to have devoted their lives to make hers impossible just to please the man who tried to prove she had done things we knew from own experieced that she could never have done - because we were present. We followed how he has been trailing her ever since the divorce, making her life impossible, becaus he is using the same methods on her as he does with the rest of us. He calls people all over the world and tells them his lies to prevent her from getting anywhere ahead.

I have nothing to gain from this personally. I only want to follow in the footsteps of my Lord Jesus Christ so that I can be of help to those who are bruised and under threats. Just read the contract 3ABN forced Linda to sign. You will find it on her web page. She is not permitted to defend herself. Who, then, should do it? Why not an honest person, like yourself?

[beartrap]

Denny, when you hear someone insisting on you having robbed the bank in a town 50 miles away while you were still glued to you potty, will you believe every word that person says ever after as Holy Writ? Is nobody permitted to deffend you, stating they saw you on your potty?

[Clay]

Denny, when you hear someone insisting on you having robbed the bank in a town 50 miles away while you were still glued to you potty, will you believe every word that person says ever after as Holy Writ? Is nobody permitted to deffend you, stating they saw you on your potty?

Well, that was the wrong illustration I used, because I want to tell you something else. My wife and I were with Linda, partly in person, partly in constant communication by e-mail and phone, and also with several of those people who seem to have devoted their lives to make hers impossible just to please the man who tried to prove she had done things we knew from own experieced that she could never have done - because we were present. We followed how he has been trailing her ever since the divorce, making her life impossible, becaus he is using the same methods on her as he does with the rest of us. He calls people all over the world and tells them his lies to prevent her from getting anywhere ahead.

I have nothing to gain from this personally. I only want to follow in the footsteps of my Lord Jesus Christ so that I can be of help to those who are bruised and under threats. Just read the contract 3ABN forced Linda to sign. You will find it on her web page. She is not permitted to defend herself. Who, then, should do it? Why not an honest person, like yourself?

being a supporter of Linda is significantly different than wanting to bring down Danny.... that is my issue.... we all agree that she was wronged, that the grounds for divorce were bogus, and the settlement she signed was unfair, but to suggest that Danny is a molester and a murderer.... that is a bit much..... Linda can be supported and affirmed without all the other....

[Guest_vonessa_*]

I have nothing to gain from this personally. I only want to follow in the footsteps of my Lord Jesus Christ so that I can be of help to those who are bruised and under threats.

Thank you brother Johann for these words of wisdom. Your honesty and openness in coming here to talk about what has happened is shining the light on 3ABNs dungeons.

All this discusion which has beneath it a fear of being sued for slander or whatnot is irrelevant. Unless Danny can prove otherwise that he did not kill his first wife we should probably believe that Fran and Johann are correct that Danny is a murderer. They have also said that he is a child molestor, adulterer, liar, thief, conman, burglar, vandal, and almost every other crime in the book. Almost like Hitler, excpet Hitler did it a lot more times. If Danny has not done all this then obviously blacksda and the people who have provided this information can later apologize. But until then, we should take the safer route and warn as many people as possible.

Also the Bible says that where there are two Christian witnesses, then the fact is established. Here we have Fran, Johann, sister, and others who witnessed it. Therefore they have won in Heaven's courtroom, amen? When we see the wrongs that our brothers and sisters like Danny commit, we are to take them to heaven's courtroom (the church) and there prosecute them before God and the people. I know this may not be the popular way today when almost anything goes, but if we were to take it even more seriously, we would have to consider carrying out the Biblical penalties for crims against humanity and God. The formal organized Adventist church does not believe what the Bible says about how to punish evil, but we are called to do more about it than simply talk - we must walk the walk all the way and try him before the court of Christ and the church.

The Lord can speak through dreams or impressions and those should not be ignored. Neither should thoughts such as these individuals have expressed for they have deep significance and they are true. The fact that they actually witnessed these things, including murder attempts, with physicality adds another dimension for those who are weaker who require both faith and sight. But those who are pure can go based on faith that Danny did these things alone based on the word of testimony and without the need for worldly evidence.

Perhaps the ludicrosity of the spiritual adultery statement was good because it got the wheels turning so people could have the oppertunity to remember all of the other things Danny had done. If he had not divorced his wife, most likely his murdering tendansies would have been ignored. Most likely Danny will not be going to heaven unless he repents of his evil ways, and those who have brought his deeds to light will get stars in their crown for all the innocent souls they have saved through being right.

This post has been edited by vonessa: May 18 2006, 10:15 AM