A Time For Action Options

[Hersheys99]

People do not need anyone but God to handle a situation...for those that feel that they have been wronged, you don't need IMHO BSDA or any other organization for God to handle things. But you do need to address the direct source of the decision making board.

Well I have a problem with that statement because God sents MEN, BSDA or other avenues to take care of a problem. So it is God doing the handling thru man! God isn't going to come down from heaven & literally do it. AS for the board what a joke have you not been reading the posts & the board at 3ABN are handpicked & will do EXACTLY what Danny wants them to do.

Question for you if your child was involved in the situation there & something was done unjustly to them or heaven forbid if they were one sexually taken advantage of or anything to that nature would you still say leave it alone God will take care of it. I don't think so IMO. I had 2 of my girls work there & I'm livid over the disciplinary action that took place on a couple different occasions over something that WAS NOTHING compared to what Danny himself has done.

I applaud BSDA & anyone else that is willing to stand up & do what is necessary to correct this problem even if it means the downfall of 3ABN as we know it. GOD is using BSDA & sister as well as others to do this & I don't think by any means they are assinating anyones character the person doing the evil is assinating his own character IMO.

[simplysaved]

As a sexual abuse survivor and former Sexual Abuse Director & Counselor ....I would lead the initiave and not expect someone else to....I would not just tell people, I would go straight to the source: they would follow my lead....BTJM I still believe that God told Moses what to do---Aaron was just there as moral support, but was not expected to do his job. BTJM

Well I have a problem with that statement because God sents MEN, BSDA or other avenues to take care of a problem. So it is God doing the handling thru man! God isn't going to come down from heaven & literally do it. AS for the board what a joke have you not been reading the posts & the board at 3ABN are handpicked & will do EXACTLY what Danny wants them to do.

Question for you if your child was involved in the situation there & something was done unjustly to them or heaven forbid if they were one sexually taken advantage of or anything to that nature would you still say leave it alone God will take care of it. I don't think so IMO. I had 2 of my girls work there & I'm livid over the disciplinary action that took place on a couple different occasions over something that WAS NOTHING compared to what Danny himself has done.

I applaud BSDA & anyone else that is willing to stand up & do what is necessary to correct this problem even if it means the downfall of 3ABN as we know it. GOD is using BSDA & sister as well as others to do this & I don't think by any means they are assinating anyones character the person doing the evil is assinating his own character IMO.

[princessdi]

simplysaved' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:38 AM' post='140765


My position is I am not taking seriously anything that comes off sounding like the National Inquirer....the initial threads that began this IMHO did (whether or not they were true), the reactions of those that posted (some of them) were not kind or Christian. I stand by that....people were asked not to post there out of respect for those who felt the need to share....I respected that and stopped.

Come on now, Sarah! You posted from Pamela Anderson's Diary yesterday. You have got to be kidding me with this line.

Please give an example of a reactions you feel were not Christian? You made the accusation, you have to back it up, rephrase, or retract.


People do not need anyone but God to handle a situation...for those that feel that they have been wronged, you don't need IMHO BSDA or any other organization for God to handle things. But you do need to address the direct source of the decision making board. We claim to be Christians and not need the .org, but yet for those who have been given the the spiritual burden of sharing this publically they had not spiritual vision (that was presented here at BSDA) for resolving this until Calvin made a call for people to send mass e-mailings and most recently for an independent investigation. Whether or not one may feel that anything was wrong, an independent investigation is more than a fair request and will put an end to speculation. Most of all wer can move on in service for Christ.

Once again, had you been paying attention, you would have known that here was the first time they all could gather the information and compare stories. Once that happened they found that they each had pieces to the puzzle.

Have you even considered that God allowed that to happen to give them what they needed to fight? God allowed them to come here, because once the pieces were together, then it was Calvin piece to facilitate the investigation? Once the pieces were together, because we are all from white and black conferences, the information might be disseminated(sp) to more people, conferences. Just take two minutes and use the mind God gave you, and it will makes sense, at least to me it does. Until they came here, all of these people had a story they felt that one one would believe, and they had no where to go to get vindication. Now it has all come together, here at BSDA. So God might not have "needed" BSDA to help out in this matter, because He is God, but He definitely honored us by using this forum. Now the few have become many, and soon as the word gets out, there will be an investigation, without Danny's cooperation.

There had to be an investigation with the issue that occurred in South Central Conference...and I do believe that is a more mature response which may now be needed here---once and for all.[/color]

This post has been edited by princessdi: Jul 20 2006, 01:24 PM

[simplysaved]

With a direct link to her (Ms. Anderson's) website from a source that was not the National Enquirer (in the Entertainment Forum )...first person vs. third personal info about oneself, which for me is probably the biggest concern that I have here ...I would like the see the original letter or at least have the opportunity to dialogue with Dr. Abrahamsen about the contents of the letter posted her....I think that is more than reasonable request.

Read the threads....this is my opinion. Whether or not they may be true, Calvin had to close the threads and re-opened them with clear guidelines and boundaries.

No, I do not believe that has changed his mind about how things are to be handled according to scripture---I do agree that God allows many things to occur, regardless.

simplysaved' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:38 AM' post='140765
My position is I am not taking seriously anything that comes off sounding like the National Inquirer....the initial threads that began this IMHO did (whether or not they were true), the reactions of those that posted (some of them) were not kind or Christian. I stand by that....people were asked not to post there out of respect for those who felt the need to share....I respected that and stopped.

Come on now, Sarah! You posted from Pamela Anderson's Diary yesterday. You have got to be kidding me with this line.

Please give an example of a reactions you feel were not Christian? You made the accusation, you have to back it up, rephrase, or retract.




People do not need anyone but God to handle a situation...for those that feel that they have been wronged, you don't need IMHO BSDA or any other organization for God to handle things. But you do need to address the direct source of the decision making board. We claim to be Christians and not need the .org, but yet for those who have been given the the spiritual burden of sharing this publically they had not spiritual vision (that was presented here at BSDA) for resolving this until Calvin made a call for people to send mass e-mailings and most recently for an independent investigation. Whether or not one may feel that anything was wrong, an independent investigation is more than a fair request and will put an end to speculation. Most of all wer can move on in service for Christ.

Once again, had you been paying attention, you would have known that here was the first time they all could gather the information and compare stories. Once that happened they found that they each had pieces to the puzzle.

Have you even considered that God allowed that to happen to give them what they needed to fight? God allowed them to come here, because once the pieces were together, then it was Clavin piece to facilitate the investigation? Once the pieces were together, because we are all from white and black conferences, the information might be disseminated(sp) to more people, conferences. Just take two minutes and use the mind God gave you, and it will makes sense, at least to me it does. Until they came here, all of these people had a story they felt that one one would believe, and they had no where to go to get vindication. Now it has all come together, here at BSDA. So God might not have "needed" BSDA to help out in this matter, because He is God, but He definitely honored us by using this forum. Now the few have become many, and soon as the word gets out, there will be an investigation, without Danny's cooperation.

There had to be an investigation with the issue that occurred in South Central Conference...and I do believe that is a more mature response which may now be needed here---once and for all.[/color]

[västergötland]

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


For the one who does not want to believe, nothing will be convincing enough.

/Thomas

[beartrap]

As a sexual abuse survivor and former Sexual Abuse Director & Counselor ....I would lead the initiave and not expect someone else to....I would not just tell people, I would go straight to the source: they would follow my lead....BTJM I still believe that God told Moses what to do---Aaron was just there as moral support, but was not expected to do his job. BTJM

Ok, fine. For your own sake, that might be the thing to do, but what about all of the other people being hurt and destroyed. That is a very selfish approach. If you know that there is an abuser in a place of power abusing people left and right, and you quietly go behind the scenes, careful not to let anyone know what this character is doing, and and confront him in his office, or speak to the church authorities (many of whom he controls) and do nothing to warn anyone, or take realistic actions to stop him, then YOU my sister are responsible for the abuse that you had the responsibility to do your best to stop. As we speak, there are people, INCLUDING MY CHILDREN, who are being hurt by this man, and I hold people like you responsible for perpetuating his abuse of them. The light that the lady sheds is darkness. Do I sound like I am taking this personal? I am! It is personal! In the process of going through this I have dealt with pastors and counselors who say the things that you say, and taken their advice... to the detriment of myself and my children. I will not make that mistake again!

This post has been edited by beartrap: Jul 20 2006, 01:39 PM

[simplysaved]

And if you want to convince the powers that be, you have to present it in a way that they will not come across in a derogatory manner anymore than a person would allow someone to present negative things that were damaging about their child. It would be perceived as prejudicial and dismissed---and most would sue.

What the Church Leaders do with the evidence presented is what people need to pray about....

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
For the one who does not want to believe, nothing will be convincing enough.

/Thomas

God and me would take them down... especially if it was my child, because I know what that feels like first hand. If I knew there was an abuser in the house, I would take responsibility--not pass it---and it would be done. Have done and would do it again.

Ok, fine. For your own sake, that might be the thing to do, but what about all of the other people being hurt and destroyed. That is a very selfish approach. If you know that there is an abuser in a place of power abusing people left and right, and you quietly go behind the scenes, careful not to let anyone know what this character is doing, and and confront him in his office, or speak to the church authorities (many of whom he controls) and do nothing to warn anyone, or take realistic actions to stop him, then YOU my sister are responsible for the abuse that you had the responsibility to do your best to stop. As we speak, there are people, INCLUDING MY CHILDREN, who are being hurt by this man, and I hold people like you responsible for perpetuating his abuse of them. The light that the lady sheds is darkness. Do I sound like I am taking this personal? I am! It is personal! In the process of going through this I have dealt with pastors and counselors who say the things that you say, and taken their advice... to the detriment of myself and my children. I will not make that mistake again!

[princessdi]

simplysaved' date='Jul 20 2006, 12:22 PM' post='140792'

With a direct link to her (Ms. Anderson's) website from a source that was not the National Enquirer (in the Entertainment Forum )...first person vs. third personal info about oneself, which for me is probably the biggest concern that I have here ...I would like the see the original letter or at least have the opportunity to dialogue with Dr. Abrahamsen about the contents of the letter posted her....I think that is more than reasonable request.

It makes no difference where you posted it. How much more tabloid can you get than Pamela Anderson(true or not. Not everything is false in the Enquirer)? Plus, you are not Sybil, with a different personallity for every forum, are you? If you don't believe in tabloid here, you ought not to believe in it anywhere. Be consistent. If you are not, someone, like me, will definitely notice and call you on it. You ought to know by now that whatever you post on this site, in whatever thread is fair game.

Once again, not paying attention. The letter came straight from the Dr. and Johann posted it here, not Johann's version. Johann was given specific instructions by the Dr. how to post the letter. which don't include, " Oh yeah, give Sarah a person a copy if she asks for it, and tell her to call me." Your request is not reasonable, because it is outside of the provisions set up by the Dr. himself for the posting of the letter.

Read the threads....this is my opinion. Whether or not they may be true, Calvin had to close the threads and re-opened them with clear guidelines and boundaries.

Yes, he did, because things that are of criminal nature will not be addressed here. Once those guidelsines were set, there was no problem. Due to the fact that Calvin ahd no idea those types of issues would arise there were guidelines set before then. What exactly is your point?

No, I do not believe that has changed his mind about how things are to be handled according to scripture---I do agree that God allows many things to occur, regardless.


Did you miss the parts where He used people to do His will? Everything was not a miracle or God striking every ones enemies with lightening. Please state the scripture(s) to support your poisiton?

[beartrap]

Furthermore, counselors and church leaders who insist on years of looking quietly and carefully into it, and interogating the victims ad nauseum to establish their bona fides and further hurting them by making out that they are the probable source of the problem, are a danger to the membership of the church. Those people represent a standing danger to people who are being abused by predators like Danny Shelton.

[simplysaved]

And as the call was made for people to personally send e-mails forwarding the contents (unless I am mistaken), I have a moral right to ask to see documentation as a person that did not work for 3ABN nor knows Dr. Abrahamsen.

simplysaved' date='Jul 20 2006, 12:22 PM' post='140792'

With a direct link to her (Ms. Anderson's) website from a source that was not the National Enquirer (in the Entertainment Forum )...first person vs. third personal info about oneself, which for me is probably the biggest concern that I have here ...I would like the see the original letter or at least have the opportunity to dialogue with Dr. Abrahamsen about the contents of the letter posted her....I think that is more than reasonable request.

It makes no difference where you posted it. How much more tabloid can you get than Pamela Anderson(true or not. Not everything is false in the Enquirer)? Plus, you are not Sybil, with a different personallity for every forum, are you? If you don't believe in tabloid here, you ought not to believe in it anywhere. Be consistent. If you are not, someone, like me, will definitely notice and call you on it. You ought to know by now that whatever you post on this site, in whatever thread is fair game.

Once again, not paying attention. The letter came straight from the Dr. and Johann posted it here, not Johann's version. Johann was given specific instructions by the Dr. how to post the letter. which don't include, " Oh yeah, give Sarah a person a copy if she asks for it, and tell her to call me." Your request is not reasonable, because it is outside of the provisions set up by the Dr. himself for the posting of the letter.

Read the threads....this is my opinion. Whether or not they may be true, Calvin had to close the threads and re-opened them with clear guidelines and boundaries.

Yes, he did, because things that are of criminal nature will not be addressed here. Once those guidelsines were set, there was no problem. Due to the fact that Calvin ahd no idea those types of issues would arise there were guidelines set before then. What exactly is your point?

No, I do not believe that has changed his mind about how things are to be handled according to scripture---I do agree that God allows many things to occur, regardless.
Did you miss the parts where He used people to do His will? Everything was not a miracle or God striking every ones enemies with lightening. Please state the scripture(s) to support your poisiton?

I agree...and should happen sooner and not later....

Furthermore, counselors and church leaders who insist on years of looking quietly and carefully into it, and interogating the victims ad nauseum to establish their bona fides and further hurting them by making out that they are the probable source of the problem, are a danger to the membership of the church. Those people represent a standing danger to people who are being abused by predators like Danny Shelton.

[beartrap]

[color=#993399]God and me would take them down... especially if it was my child, because I know what that feels like first hand. If I knew there was an abuser in the house, I would take responsibility--not pass it---and it would be done. Have done and would do it again.

That is what I am doing, but for the sake of many other people out there who are in my shoes, I have widened the net to include those people whose positions and professions give them an authority which they use to allow continued abuse, and make the victims feel like they must be the guilty ones, and through their bad counsel perpetuate abuse. I will not tolerate that any more than I will tolerate the primary abuser.

[västergötland]

I too would like to see a pile of hard facts, but I also understand the approach taken. An illustration, I have read that the chinese christians only preach on the doorstep of the police station when God has called them to minister in the prison...

[beartrap]

I too would like to see a pile of hard facts, but I also understand the approach taken. An illustration, I have read that the chinese christians only preach on the doorstep of the police station when God has called them to minister in the prison...

Precisely!

[simplysaved]

And if God has called you minister in the prison, why are you scared to go inside? Love your analogy....

I too would like to see a pile of hard facts, but I also understand the approach taken. An illustration, I have read that the chinese christians only preach on the doorstep of the police station when God has called them to minister in the prison...

This post has been edited by simplysaved: Jul 20 2006, 02:15 PM

[västergötland]

I dont know that God has called me to minister so that beartraps children go to prison.

Its not merely an analogy, I read that this acctually happened at least once in a biography about a guy in the chinese home church movement.