The Dreams & Visions Concerning 3abn, A short letter from Barbara Kerr Options

[Lucyladye]

My sentiments exacty!

[PeacefulBe]

Ephesians 6:10-18 says "10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. "

I love this message to the Ephesians! My own personal opinion on the discussion about the importance of scripture and reading the Bible is that without a thorough knowledge of what is in there, we will be too easily fooled by the devil's schemes. The patriarchs, etc had the Word directly from God through the spoken words of prophets and angels. While our verbal communication with God - our prayer lives - are oh, so very important, the Word is where we truly learn the character of God...the Truth. Otherwise, we are in danger of interpreting God and His truth by our own fallible parameters.

Just my humble opinion.

[Barbara Kerr]

I love this message to the Ephesians! My own personal opinion on the discussion about the importance of scripture and reading the Bible is that without a thorough knowledge of what is in there, we will be too easily fooled by the devil's schemes. The patriarchs, etc had the Word directly from God through the spoken words of prophets and angels. While our verbal communication with God - our prayer lives - are oh, so very important, the Word is where we truly learn the character of God...the Truth. Otherwise, we are in danger of interpreting God and His truth by our own fallible parameters.

Just my humble opinion.

Amen sister!

[Voktar of Zargon]

"Thy testimonies are my meditation."
"Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it."

"Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them. The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple."

"Unless thy law had been my delights, I should have perished in mine affliction. I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me."

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path."
"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way."

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed thereto according to thy word."
"Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee."

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

- Psalm 119:99; Psalm 119:140; Psalm 119:129,130; Psalm 119:92,93; Psalm 119:105; Psalm 119:104; Psalm 119:9; Psalm 119:11; Isaiah 8:20


"It is the first and highest duty of every rational being to learn from the Scriptures what is truth, and then to walk in the light and encourage others to follow his example." - GC 598
"None but those who have fortified the mind with the truths of the Bible will stand through the last great conflict." - GC 593

[Clay]

those who stand in the last days will be fortified by the Holy Spirit...... in this world there are people who know TONS more about the bible that most christians will ever know... biblical language scholars who can dissect and parse texts and be correct.... the average person who THINKS they are studying the bible and is "fortified" will be toast..... except those who have been transformed by the Holy Spirit.....

Additionally, I don't think its gonna be a pop quiz to see how much you know or don't know.... its gonna be about who you know and believe in.....

I'm done.....

[Voktar of Zargon]

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24

"Sanctify them through thy truth, Thy Word is truth." - John 17:17

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God." - Ephesians 6:17

[PeacefulBe]

"Thy testimonies are my meditation."
"Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it."

"Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them. The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple."

"Unless thy law had been my delights, I should have perished in mine affliction. I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me."

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path."
"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way."

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed thereto according to thy word."
"Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee."

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

- Psalm 119:99; Psalm 119:140; Psalm 119:129,130; Psalm 119:92,93; Psalm 119:105; Psalm 119:104; Psalm 119:9; Psalm 119:11; Isaiah 8:20
"It is the first and highest duty of every rational being to learn from the Scriptures what is truth, and then to walk in the light and encourage others to follow his example." - GC 598
"None but those who have fortified the mind with the truths of the Bible will stand through the last great conflict." - GC 593

VoZ:
Amen, Amen and AMEN!

those who stand in the last days will be fortified by the Holy Spirit...... in this world there are people who know TONS more about the bible that most christians will ever know... biblical language scholars who can dissect and parse texts and be correct.... the average person who THINKS they are studying the bible and is "fortified" will be toast..... except those who have been transformed by the Holy Spirit.....

Additionally, I don't think its gonna be a pop quiz to see how much you know or don't know.... its gonna be about who you know and believe in.....

I'm done.....

AMEN Brother Clay!

[inga]

those who stand in the last days will be fortified by the Holy Spirit...... in this world there are people who know TONS more about the bible that most christians will ever know... biblical language scholars who can dissect and parse texts and be correct.... the average person who THINKS they are studying the bible and is "fortified" will be toast..... except those who have been transformed by the Holy Spirit.....

Additionally, I don't think its gonna be a pop quiz to see how much you know or don't know.... its gonna be about who you know and believe in.....

I'm done.....

Clay, somehow you've established a false dichotomy between the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Holy men of God wrote as they were moved by the Spirit. The reason the Bible is "living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword" is that it is also interpreted by the Holy Spirit to the Spirit-led reader. Thus the Word of God is continually alive. The same Bible passage can speak in different ways at different times to the Spirit-led reader.

Now, Clay, you may be "done" denying our view of things, but please tell us how you see the Bible. What is its role in the believer's life. What you have written sounds as though the Bible is just an adjunct -- unnecessary to the Spirit-led individual. (As you have surmised, I disagree.) I think it would be helpful if you would lay out your view in a single post. (So far, you've just disagreed with what some of us have written, rather than laying out your view.)

[Clay]

Clay, somehow you've established a false dichotomy between the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Holy men of God wrote as they were moved by the Spirit. The reason the Bible is "living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword" is that it is also interpreted by the Holy Spirit to the Spirit-led reader. Thus the Word of God is continually alive. The same Bible passage can speak in different ways at different times to the Spirit-led reader.

Now, Clay, you may be "done" denying our view of things, but please tell us how you see the Bible. What is its role in the believer's life. What you have written sounds as though the Bible is just an adjunct -- unnecessary to the Spirit-led individual. (As you have surmised, I disagree.) I think it would be helpful if you would lay out your view in a single post. (So far, you've just disagreed with what some of us have written, rather than laying out your view.)

i have not established anything, what I have done was put the bible in its proper place.... it is a vehicle that can lead people to Christ if we allow it too..... it has no magical powers and is not necessarily correct.... though it has what is needed for us to understand that God wants to have an intimate relationship with us.....

your mileage may vary as some have some apprehension about being "led" by the spirit, even though we say that's what we want.....

This post has been edited by Clay: Sep 1 2006, 07:26 PM

[Clay]

of course my point of reference may be different.... I see those slaves who couldnt read, who actually were told wrong stuff (from the bible) by their masters, developing a hope in Christ that was unshakable..... they had no bible..... I have already mentioned those who lived, who had relationship with God and never laid eyes on the bible..... I am thinking about all those believers who believed even though they had no bible because it was not written in their language but in Latin and locked away....so you cannot convince me that the bible is the end all when throughout history people have been without it.....

[rwelchcrs]

i have not established anything, what I have done was put the bible in its proper place.... it is a vehicle that can lead people to Christ if we allow it too..... it has no magical powers and is not necessarily correct.... though it has what is needed for us to understand that God wants to have an intimate relationship with us.....

your mileage may vary as some have some apprehension about being "led" by the spirit, even though we say that's what we want.....

Could you expand on this a bit? Exactly what do you mean by "is not necessarily correct"?

[PeacefulBe]

Without the Word how can we test the spirits to make sure we are allowing the correct One to empower us?

If the Bible "is not necessarily correct" I'm afraid we're all in deep do-do.

1 Corintians 1:18, 19
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

[inga]

Clay, thanks for the reply, but you are still only responding to/arguing with things we have said, rather than laying out your views clearly.

A bit of interlining follows ...

i have not established anything, what I have done was put the bible in its proper place.... it is a vehicle that can lead people to Christ if we allow it too..... it has no magical powers and is not necessarily correct....

You say the Bible can lead people to Christ, and it is not necessarily correct. Can this not be said of thousands of other books as well?

though it has what is needed for us to understand that God wants to have an intimate relationship with us.....

Again, don't many other books serve the purpsoe of telling us that God wants to have an intimate relationship with us?

As a matter of fact, you say so on this board, so folks could just come here instead of reading the Bible?

your mileage may vary as some have some apprehension about being "led" by the spirit, even though we say that's what we want.....

of course my point of reference may be different.... I see those slaves who couldnt read, who actually were told wrong stuff (from the bible) by their masters, developing a hope in Christ that was unshakable..... they had no bible..... I have already mentioned those who lived, who had relationship with God and never laid eyes on the bible..... I am thinking about all those believers who believed even though they had no bible because it was not written in their language but in Latin and locked away....so you cannot convince me that the bible is the end all when throughout history people have been without it.....

I have followed this thread but have not seen anyone mention that the Bible is "the end all." I have personally mentioned that for those of us who call ourselves Christians today and have the Bible at our finger tips, it is foundational to our relatiionship with God, though He also speaks to us in other ways.

Others have mentioned that it is like a touchstone that lets us know which spirit is speaking to us.

As for the personal relationship -- how would you feel if you labored over a love letter or a love song for your wife, and she refused to read it or listen to it, demanding you speak to her in other ways instead? Would that demonstrate love or a "personal relationship" on her part?

Of course, our relationship with God is on a different plane. Christ said "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life." (see the gospel of John) How do you interpret that statement?

Others have posted texts that demonstrate the value God places on His Word. What does it say of our "personal relationship" when we demand He speak to us in other ways, while we ignore His Word?

My question to you was in reference to how you see the Bible in relation to our situation here and now. Anything else is pretty theoretical anyway, and I'll happily leave God to figure out how to communicate with those who don't have the written Word. I know He's capable of it and does it all the time.

[Voktar of Zargon]

of course my point of reference may be different.... I see those slaves who couldnt read, who actually were told wrong stuff (from the bible) by their masters, developing a hope in Christ that was unshakable..... they had no bible..... I have already mentioned those who lived, who had relationship with God and never laid eyes on the bible..... I am thinking about all those believers who believed even though they had no bible because it was not written in their language but in Latin and locked away....so you cannot convince me that the bible is the end all when throughout history people have been without it.....

Perhaps you forget that the believers in the dark ages (not having access to the locked away Bible) worshipped more often than not in ignorance. They worshipped in superstition, they worshipped idols, they lived in spiritual bondage and slavery to blasphemous overlords whose power over them was finally broken through the enlightenment that came to them from reading the Holy Scriptures in their own tongue. The Bible you "put in its proper place" was bought by Protestant blood. Did they die in vain?

Is it possible that you were hit over the head in your formative years by one too many Biblical hypocrites?

[PeacefulBe]

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24

"Sanctify them through thy truth, Thy Word is truth." - John 17:17

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God." - Ephesians 6:17

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.

The Word of God is where we find our armor!