The Dreams & Visions Concerning 3abn, A short letter from Barbara Kerr Options

[seeshell]

I'm with this...

Perhaps you forget that the believers in the dark ages (not having access to the locked away Bible) worshipped more often than not in ignorance. They worshipped in superstition, they worshipped idols, they lived in spiritual bondage and slavery to blasphemous overlords whose power over them was finally broken through the enlightenment that came to them from reading the Holy Scriptures in their own tongue. The Bible you "put in its proper place" was bought by Protestant blood. Did they die in vain?

Is it possible that you were hit over the head in your formative years by one too many Biblical hypocrites?

[Clay]

As for the personal relationship -- how would you feel if you labored over a love letter or a love song for your wife, and she refused to read it or listen to it, demanding you speak to her in other ways instead? Would that demonstrate love or a "personal relationship" on her part?

my love letters to my wife are snapshots, I would be more concerned if instead of wanting to talk to me she wanted to read those letters... and lets be clear, God did not write one word of the bible....

Of course, our relationship with God is on a different plane. Christ said "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life." (see the gospel of John) How do you interpret that statement?

those words were not the bible... not as we have it here and now...what is the word of God? Anything that God communicates with us, and it is not limited to the bible....

Others have posted texts that demonstrate the value God places on His Word. What does it say of our "personal relationship" when we demand He speak to us in other ways, while we ignore His Word?

His word was NOT the bible as we have it.... in spite of you all suggesting that it is.....

My question to you was in reference to how you see the Bible in relation to our situation here and now. Anything else is pretty theoretical anyway, and I'll happily leave God to figure out how to communicate with those who don't have the written Word. I know He's capable of it and does it all the time.

The bible is a tool, and gives us insight into how God has interacted with people.... it cannot replace relationship, but for some it may aid in that relationship....

[Clay]

Could you expand on this a bit? Exactly what do you mean by "is not necessarily correct"?

it was written by men... men who were inspired but men.... and since man is not perfect, that imperfection is reflected in the bible.... the bible is not infallible for if it were we would not allow women to speak in church, neither would we allow women to teach men, we would stone rebellious children, we would kill sabbath breakers and lastly we would believe that the sun stood still when we now know it was the earth that stood still...

Without the Word how can we test the spirits to make sure we are allowing the correct One to empower us?

If the Bible "is not necessarily correct" I'm afraid we're all in deep do-do.

1 Corintians 1:18, 19
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

you said it I didn't...... but then again I do not share your view....

[Brother Sam]

Clay

You can clearly see the Bible books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are written by four different authors covering the same period in history. Yet, you need to read all four books to get the total picture. I believe that because they were different personalitiies, they saw things differently.

The Bible is a translation, so many times we don't get the complete meaning of the text, as written originally, as the translation will reflect the thoughts and understanding of that particular translator. There are words in the original that cannot be communicated properly in English. You can see the personality of the author coming through the works they wrote, such as Paul. In some places the Bible appears to contradict itself - yet I don't believe God contradicts anything - but is man's lack of historical knowledge or the wisdom to put on paper exactly what God has laid down for us in His original written Word.

I will later post my thoughts regarding Danny's continual need to surround himself with "Pentacostal and Charasmatic" people.

[Clay]

thread was split, those comments dealing with the black/white issue in the church has been moved to a new thread in the Your Local Church section.....

here is the link.....

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10728

[Voktar of Zargon]

Thanks for splitting the new thread.
I think that my last post belongs here though since its main theme was on topic. Can you please move it back to this thread?

[Clay]

Thanks for splitting the new thread.
I think that my last post belongs here though since its main theme was on topic. Can you please move it back to this thread?

i could....

V of Z said.....

Let me follow this logic:

A: Because Adventist are sinners who still sin.

B: The Bible is a faulty revelation.

Next step on slippery slope:

A: Because the majority of the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

B: God is either a liar or doesn't exist


Flip side of the logic:

A: The South African Conferences united.

B: Therefore the Bible is a true revelation.

[simplysaved]

I hear ya...

Perhaps you forget that the believers in the dark ages (not having access to the locked away Bible) worshipped more often than not in ignorance. They worshipped in superstition, they worshipped idols, they lived in spiritual bondage and slavery to blasphemous overlords whose power over them was finally broken through the enlightenment that came to them from reading the Holy Scriptures in their own tongue. The Bible you "put in its proper place" was bought by Protestant blood. Did they die in vain?

Is it possible that you were hit over the head in your formative years by one too many Biblical hypocrites?

[Voktar of Zargon]

I'm with this...

Thanks seeshell.

I hear ya...

Thanks Simply Saved.

[Voktar of Zargon]

What I also meant to say was that Adventists trace their Spiritual Forefathers back to the "Church in the Wilderness" spoken of in Revelation chapter 12. The primary example of that church is considered to be the Waldensians of the Alps. These faithful Christians preserved the primitive Christian faith because of their reverence for and preservation of the Scriptures. Once again, they did so at hazard of their lives. Many of them paid dearly for their Biblical faith with martyrdom. If the Bible is a dead letter or mute point, why does the Devil hate it so much?

[Voktar of Zargon]

Clay,
I meant to have your quote included in my "logic" statements. So I include that now:

Let me ask this, if the bible is the transforming power that some of you believe it to be, why with all the bible studying adventists that go to church every sabbath, do we remain segregated by color in North America? It seems to me if the bible is what you say it is, that it would have impacted that simple issue..... Seems like if the bible is transforming we would not be segregating ourselves by color and culture.....

Let me follow this logic:

A: Because Adventist are sinners who still sin.

B: The Bible is a faulty revelation.

Next step on slippery slope:

A: Because the majority of the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

B: God is either a liar or doesn't exist


Flip side of the logic:

A: The South African Conferences united.

B: Therefore the Bible is a true revelation.



And finally your response:




no that is not the logic at all..... here is the logic that some have presented....

1. The bible is the Word of God that should be studied and followed implicitedly by all believers....

2. It is the authority by which we as adventist's live our lives....

3. We study the bible and implement its principles and allow its precepts to transform our lives....

::::::::::YET::::::::::

We still are segregated by color in the NAD, and white flight still occurs in our churches...

consequently how much do you really believe points 1 thru 3?


That is what I am pointing out....

[Clay]

my bad....

[Sapphire]

I think with the millions of people out there, and EVERY ONE OF THEM is at a different place spiritually, it is impossible for everyone to understand or agree on what connects them to God.

When I was in my 20's my devotional time was practically nil. I took my Bible to church, but I rarely read it. It was boring to me. I had a very strong faith and I prayed often, but it was nothing compared to the experience I have today.

God was with me then and He loved me just as much as He loves me now. Do I think that God is always moving us in the direction that He wants His children to go? Absolutely. Would I want to go backwards to the relationship I had with Him then? No way. Does God want me to grow even more from where I am today? Sure He does.

So there isn't an answer that everyone will agree upon. Every person is at a different place in their Christian walk based on their personal experiences. It's okay! Those that rely heavily upon the Bible do so for a reason based upon their experiences. Those that rely heavily on prayer without the Bible do so for a reason, ALSO based on their experiences. And those of us that rely heavily on prayer AND the Bible do so because they can't imagine life any other way.

It doesn't make one wrong and the other right. It makes us human instead of machines. I don't know about you, but I like being a little bit different than everyone else. God made us this way. PTL I just love Him so much!

I completely agree. We need to remember that every person has experienced different "things" in his or her life and it all affects where we come from spiritually. I also think some of it is just semantics. It's kind've funny how we are all trying so hard to get everyone else to see the Bible and prayer and God, just the way we do.

This is good. Very therapeutic.

[Green Cochoa]

and lets be clear, God did not write one word of the bible....

Well, actually, that wasn't fully clear. So, let's be more clear! If you meant that God didn't print our modern Bibles, nor translate them from the original tongues...hmm....I suppose you could consider yourself correct on a technicality--but I would still have to disagree. That would be like saying God didn't create my baby, I did! But David, in the psalms, speaks clearly of God creating him in his mother's womb, and most of us to this day marvel at the miracle of life.

God wrote MANY words of the Bible. The entire 10 Commandments were written by His own finger in solid rock--twice. If I recall, that amounts to about 280 words in the English translation. Then, in Daniel, His finger wrote several words again--right into the wall. So, again, we could say you are technically correct since it is true that God did not write JUST one word, but many in the Bible!

Or, have I misunderstood your intended meaning and ought to be asking instead, "Which word of the Bible did God NOT write?"

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God..." 2 Tim. 3:16
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. " Mt. 4:4

[Clay]

Well, actually, that wasn't fully clear. So, let's be more clear! If you meant that God didn't print our modern Bibles, nor translate them from the original tongues...hmm....I suppose you could consider yourself correct on a technicality--but I would still have to disagree. That would be like saying God didn't create my baby, I did! But David, in the psalms, speaks clearly of God creating him in his mother's womb, and most of us to this day marvel at the miracle of life.

God wrote MANY words of the Bible. The entire 10 Commandments were written by His own finger in solid rock--twice. If I recall, that amounts to about 280 words in the English translation. Then, in Daniel, His finger wrote several words again--right into the wall. So, again, we could say you are technically correct since it is true that God did not write JUST one word, but many in the Bible!

Or, have I misunderstood your intended meaning and ought to be asking instead, "Which word of the Bible did God NOT write?"

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God..." 2 Tim. 3:16
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. " Mt. 4:4

the examples you gave were not "The Bible." In fact at the time that they were written there was no bible, and no plans to compile one, additionally we believe via faith that those things that have been attributed to God were recorded accurately....

When Paul wrote those words he was referring to the OT, since there was no NT. Likewise when Jesus said what he said, the assumption is that he was referring to scripture, i.e. the OT.

I submit to you that Jesus said he is the Word, and he being God also came (to earth) through God, so it well could be that he was referring to himself.... That man is sustained only through Christ himself....