The Dreams & Visions Concerning 3abn, A short letter from Barbara Kerr Options

[justme]

Dear Summertime,

I always appreciate your contributions to this forum, but I believe that, in this case, what you write above is quite wrong.

No one has discredited Barbara, as far as I can tell. We all applaud her courage for coming forward. I even appreciate her sharing the dreams of the woman who is now her friend. That appreciation does not mean that I have to agree with the interpretation of the dream that Barbara, her friend and you appear to put on it.

The interpretation is in line with what many folkshope will happen. To my mind, it is not in line with what God has already revealed through Scripture and the writings of Ellen White. That is not casting any aspersion on those of you who believe otherwise. I am just sticking my neck out to state my conviction, based on my experience with the Lord. You are welcome to believe differently, and you may have reason to disagree with the evidence I gave. I appreciate the attempt to deal with the evidence, even when I disagree.

I'll deal with one point now:

Several of us noted that "Linda left Danny" is misleading. Barbara pointed out that it could be interpreted to match the facts. Now, in my experience, God does not make misleading statements. He knows that we are but dust, and His words are usually most accurately intepreted in the most straightforward way. That's why that sentence troubles me. The most straightforward reading would indicate that Linda wilfully left Danny. The use of language the recipient of the dream did not understand is troubling along these same lines -- it's not God's usual way of working.

There is an apparent attempt on the part of some here to take word literally. Here's another experience of taking Gods' words literally. You will recall that the Apostle Paul says that if a man wants to serve God completely he will NOT GET MARRIED because his wife wants one thing from him but God want something else. Those who have taken this literally live in convents and monasteries or some such. It IS possible to take many things from God's word and not clearly understand them at first. SOme people have no problem understanding the Bible, but some do. It is not because God has worded something one way or another. We would do well to remember that we do not read the Bible in the language it was written. Nor do we have the author's available to ask questions.

About the words "Linda left Danny" ... it seems only natural that she would do so quickly when it is made clear that it is far safer to leave than to stay and "take her chances". He made it abundantly clear that she was to leave the premises by taking away her keys and having her escorted off the grounds. Did "Danny leave Linda"? How else would it have been worded in that "vision"?

[Clay]

saharafan said:

Clay,
Yes, I do believe that sometimes and under certain circumstances Satan can also give us dreams, talk to us or at least influence our thoughts, also during sleep, and this in a way that we can be tempted to belive the message or "voice" or miracle comes from God. This can even happen to godly people. There are several possiblities and reasons for it. That is why we need to carefully test the spirits, even of our own personal supernatural experiences of this kind.

I tend to disagree because that would suggest that he has unrestricted access to our brains.... I think that it is possible to see things, read things, or hear things that are negative that then show up in dreams, but for the moment I disagree that satan can give us dreams.... without our cooperation I probably need to add..... while God is not bound by any restraints.....

[Jvat]

I know that I have read that Satan trembles when the weakest saint gets on their knees and here I am hearing that sweet trusting christian people may be more easily fooled by Satan than others? That sounds quite baffling to me. Where does the gift of spiritual discernment that God gives to all HIS followers come in here? We are told to test and try the Spirits and we are also told that spiritual things are spiritually discerned. We are also told that for God's faithful followers, that when the enemy comes in like a flood that the Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him. That to me is sure evidence that God wil protect his children from delusion once they trust HIM.

Inga, I am happy that you have also stated that you could be wrong in some of your pronouncements in this thread. Thank you for that.

[Clay]

I know that I have read that Satan trembles when the weakest saint gets on their knees and here I am hearing that sweet trusting christian people may be more easily fooled by Satan than others? That sounds quite baffling to me. Where does the gift of spiritual discernment that God gives to all HIS followers come in here? We are told to test and try the Spirits and we are also told that spiritual things are spiritually discerned. We are also told that for God's faithful followers, that when the enemy comes in like a flood that the Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him. That to me is sure evidence that God wil protect his children from delusion once they trust HIM.

Inga, I am happy that you have also stated that you could be wrong in some of your pronouncements in this thread. Thank you for that.

Thanks Jvat, your comments are helping me form what I am trying to say... and you hit it on the head... some of the comments would have us believe that there is no way that we can tell the difference between what God does and what Satan does and that we are left on our own to figure it all out.... God does not leave us undefended.... and because he is our father, he protects us just as earthly parents do everything in their power to protect their children...

That text is appropriate here.... Resist the devil and he will flee....

This post has been edited by Clay: Aug 18 2006, 09:13 AM

[inga]

saharafan said:
I tend to disagree because that would suggest that he has unrestricted access to our brains.... I think that it is possible to see things, read things, or hear things that are negative that then show up in dreams, but for the moment I disagree that satan can give us dreams.... without our cooperation I probably need to add..... while God is not bound by any restraints.....

I don't believe he has "undrestricted access to our brains." Only God and the Holy Spirit really knows what we're thinking, for instance. Satan can only guess, but he's a bit smarter than our smartest psychologists and so is pretty good at guessing.

Scientists know how to stimulate certain parts of the brain to bring up memories or to generate certain impulses. I think Satan knows more. So that may explain some dreams and/or nightmares. And, of course, most dreams arise from our own subconscious.

[inga]

I know that I have read that Satan trembles when the weakest saint gets on their knees and here I am hearing that sweet trusting christian people may be more easily fooled by Satan than others?

It was not my intent to suggest that. But certainly Satan tries his wiles on the trusting.

That sounds quite baffling to me. Where does the gift of spiritual discernment that God gives to all HIS followers come in here? We are told to test and try the Spirits and we are also told that spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

Precisely. And that is what we are attempting to do on this forum. As I suggested earlier, God asks us not to forget meeting together, and I believe it is so that we may support each other, with each making up for the weakness of the other, since we all have different minds and varying gifts.

We are also told that for God's faithful followers, that when the enemy comes in like a flood that the Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him. That to me is sure evidence that God wil protect his children from delusion once they trust HIM.

He will protect us with the means He has given us -- particularly His Word. Being a a committed Christian does not release us from the necessity of careful study, comparing Scripture with Scripture and then testing the "messages" that come to us. Certainly history demonstrates that many dedicated Christians have lived most or all of their lives under delusions. Those who were dedicated to Him in their hearts will be in the Kingdom, in spite of being deluded, for God remembers that we are but dust, and He knows our circumstances.

While you find my suggestion that Christians may be deceived troubling, I find your suggestion troubling. You appear to suggest that once we are committed to God and pray a prayer with certain phrases, we can be assured that any supernatural manifestations are from God. There's many a record in the history of the church to demonstrate that this is not so. (Please don't ask me to cite them because these are stories scattered throughout our books and magazines and aren't easily referenced. I'm surprised that some folks don't seem to be aware of this.

God has promised that he will not "tempt us" beyond what we are able to bear. And I believe this text is applicable to the current situation. He will not allow Satan to bring overwhelming deception on us -- i.e. deception that we have no way of detecting. However, when His Word outlines the principles by which we may detect His voice, He expects us to believe that Word.

Inga, I am happy that you have also stated that you could be wrong in some of your pronouncements in this thread. Thank you for that.

Well, I take that for granted, but it's probably not discernible in my statements, since I tend to express myself forcefully when I believe something. I think I'll have to make up a disclaimer signature -- something to the effect that I'm human and prone to err.

[PrincessDrRe]

saharafan said:
I tend to disagree because that would suggest that he has unrestricted access to our brains.... I think that it is possible to see things, read things, or hear things that are negative that then show up in dreams, but for the moment I disagree that satan can give us dreams.... without our cooperation I probably need to add..... while God is not bound by any restraints.....

I gotta agree with you Clay.....

If the devil had full control over our minds then all....ALL WOULD BE LOST!
Gotta "think" on this some more.... Times like these I wish my Daddy was still alive - he had so much insight into the werd of GOD.....

[meadbd]

[quote name='Barbara Kerr' date='Aug 16 2006, 09:14 PM' post='145516']

The Dreams and Visions Concerning 3ABN

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“I know you’re going to think I’m crazy, but God spoke to me three times in an audible voice on May 26th, (2004). Twice the voice said clearly, ‘Linda left Danny. Linda left Danny.’” Without saying anything out loud, the woman said to God, “If this is really You and not Satan, say it again.” The voice boomed so loudly that her neighbors could have heard it. “LINDA LEFT DANNY”.
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Of course the voice would repeat "LINDA LEFT DANNY".

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During this vision she heard a voice say, [b]“3ABN will be the instrument I will use to bring billions to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior,...
=================================================
[b]not likely that billions(not millions) will come to Jesus Christ as their personal Savior through 3ABN or any other evangelistic endeavor...for our church now needs great revival so that the many members we do have might be converted and born again and surrender their life completely to Jesus!

The evidence that a person is born again(John 3) is that the Holy Spirit dwells within and the fruit of the Spirit is clearly seen in their life. "LOVE,JOY,PEACE,..." These are evident in the Christian.

That is, a Christian daily rejoices in their salvation and is a joyful person to be around. They tell others what great things God has done in their life! They long to see their Lord and live with Him forever!

As the Bible says, "Broad is the way that leads to destruction and MANY go in, but straight is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it"! (Matt.7:13-14).

When God has saved you, you know it and are continually praising Him! (Titus 3:4-5).

Let the redeemed of the Lord lift Him up in Praise!

Bill

This post has been edited by meadbd: Aug 18 2006, 12:30 PM

[Clay]

It was not my intent to suggest that. But certainly Satan tries his wiles on the trusting.
Precisely. And that is what we are attempting to do on this forum. As I suggested earlier, God asks us not to forget meeting together, and I believe it is so that we may support each other, with each making up for the weakness of the other, since we all have different minds and varying gifts.He will protect us with the means He has given us -- particularly His Word. Being a a committed Christian does not release us from the necessity of careful study, comparing Scripture with Scripture and then testing the "messages" that come to us. Certainly history demonstrates that many dedicated Christians have lived most or all of their lives under delusions. Those who were dedicated to Him in their hearts will be in the Kingdom, in spite of being deluded, for God remembers that we are but dust, and He knows our circumstances.

While you find my suggestion that Christians may be deceived troubling, I find your suggestion troubling. You appear to suggest that once we are committed to God and pray a prayer with certain phrases, we can be assured that any supernatural manifestations are from God. There's many a record in the history of the church to demonstrate that this is not so. (Please don't ask me to cite them because these are stories scattered throughout our books and magazines and aren't easily referenced. I'm surprised that some folks don't seem to be aware of this.

God has promised that he will not "tempt us" beyond what we are able to bear. And I believe this text is applicable to the current situation. He will not allow Satan to bring overwhelming deception on us -- i.e. deception that we have no way of detecting. However, when His Word outlines the principles by which we may detect His voice, He expects us to believe that Word.
Well, I take that for granted, but it's probably not discernible in my statements, since I tend to express myself forcefully when I believe something. I think I'll have to make up a disclaimer signature -- something to the effect that I'm human and prone to err.

I hear what you are saying but I still disagree... there are committed christians who know when God speaks to them and they are in tune with his voice... some have to be because they cannot read the bible.... so they must have a relationship with God..... the same way a child recognizes the voice of their parents is the same type of intimate relationship God wants with us... Is that possible? Yes.... Jesus said my sheep KNOW my voice... and if it is possible for humans to develop an intimate relationship with each other without reading a book about the person, what prevents us from doing the same thing with our Heavenly Father? I understand what you are saying about the bible, but my confidence is not in the bible, it is in God..... scholars know the bible, debate the bible and still have no relationship with God, so it has to be more than just "studying" the bible..... I think we have to really and I mean really trust ourselves to him... and allow him to communicate with us intimately.... it is my opinion that many are afraid of this, just as Israel was at Sinai....

[princessdi]

Exactly Steve! Well said!

I hear what you are saying but I still disagree... there are committed christians who know when God speaks to them and they are in tune with his voice... some have to be because they cannot read the bible.... so they must have a relationship with God..... the same way a child recognizes the voice of their parents is the same type of intimate relationship God wants with us... Is that possible? Yes.... Jesus said my sheep KNOW my voice... and if it is possible for humans to develop an intimate relationship with each other without reading a book about the person, what prevents us from doing the same thing with our Heavenly Father? I understand what you are saying about the bible, but my confidence is not in the bible, it is in God..... scholars know the bible, debate the bible and still have no relationship with God, so it has to be more than just "studying" the bible..... I think we have to really and I mean really trust ourselves to him... and allow him to communicate with us intimately.... it is my opinion that many are afraid of this, just as Israel was at Sinai....

[Jvat]

Thank you Clay for your kind words.

Inga, did I say anything about praying a prayer or rather trusting God to keep HIS promise that when the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him? That is a biblical promise, you know, Inga. We are told that we are given these great and exceeding precious promises that we can escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. This lust here can also be translated as pride in our context, I believe. The corruption can also be looked on as delusion, right? This is also comparing scripture with Scripture, Inga. These words are based on scripture too, Inga.

[Jvat]

Inga and Bill, please note as well that the lady in question who had the dream did recognise that Satan may mean her harm and she asked for a confirmation that the message was indeed from God. So do u not think that God would protect His believing child or do you think that he would just leave her to the snares of the Evil One, especially after she asked for His guidance?

[Nuggie]

I was always taught that Satan can't read our minds and doesn't know our thoughts...only God knows what we're thinking. Anybody ever heard that? If that's true, then Satan couldn't "invade" our thoughts and dreams, right?

[inga]

I was always taught that Satan can't read our minds and doesn't know our thoughts...only God knows what we're thinking. Anybody ever heard that?

I believe that's true, and Ellen White confirmed it, though I don't have the reference handy.

If that's true, then Satan couldn't "invade" our thoughts and dreams, right?

There's a difference between knowing our thoughts precisely and guessing them. And there's a difference between knowing our thoughts and suggesting thoughts to us. Just how that mechanism works, I don't know. But I don't believe that all suggestions from Satan have to be audible. Would these indaudible suggestions/temptations not be something that we understand with our minds? Would the avenue Satan uses in that case not be available to him in dreams as well?

[Clay]

I believe that's true, and Ellen White confirmed it, though I don't have the reference handy. There's a difference between knowing our thoughts precisely and guessing them. And there's a difference between knowing our thoughts and suggesting thoughts to us. Just how that mechanism works, I don't know. But I don't believe that all suggestions from Satan have to be audible. Would these indaudible suggestions/temptations not be something that we understand with our minds? Would the avenue Satan uses in that case not be available to him in dreams as well?

hmmmmm let me ponder that one for a bit.....